Why should it be our responsibility to help Mexican citizens?

When that many people are that desperate to get out of their own country, isn't it about time for that country to start another revolution?

Obviously your current government isn't working for you. Shouldn't it be YOUR responsibility to reform YOUR government, instead of running across the border to a country that has already made their own changes?

If all of Mexico wants to come to the United States, well fuck, let's just make Mexico a state and they can live under our government. That's what they want, isn't it? To live under our government?

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Originally Posted by CityBoyGoneCountry

When that many people are that desperate to get out of their own country, isn't it about time for that country to start another revolution?

YES CB you are right!!!!!!!!!

Obviously your current government isn't working for you. Shouldn't it be YOUR responsibility to reform YOUR government, instead of running across the border to a country that has already made their own changes?

THats why we need a fence.... to put there sytem uder pressure. Right now there northern border is a relief valve... lets pressure cook there goverment.

If all of Mexico wants to come to the United States, well fuck, let's just make Mexico a state and they can live under our government. That's what they want, isn't it? To live under our government?

But remember they dont want to Asimalate.... to our views they want us to learn spanish, and such.

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Thanks again for using your head......:thumbsup:

You bring up some pretty valid, reasonable points, and for once, i have no argument here.

A fence is absolutely absurd.

If Republicans want to stop illegal immigration all they have to do is dry up the jobs. First offense a 5k fine. Second offense caught hiring an illegal alien and you're closed for business.

But they're not going to do that because they have no intention of stopping illegal immigration. There's too much money in it for the businesses who are paying them off.

The Democrats aren't any better because they're just drooling over that hispanic vote.

Standing at the border with a sniper rifle would be fun!

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Originally Posted by CityBoyGoneCountry

If all of Mexico wants to come to the United States, well fuck, let's just make Mexico a state and they can live under our government. That's what they want, isn't it? To live under our government?

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How about something even better, why should it be our government's responsibility to take care of anyone - and therby forcing us by the point of a gun?

Here's an easy solution to the "problem" right now : abolish all government welfare programs. Everyone will be richer (it'll give everyone about a 20% increase in salary), and it'll eliminate any alleged drain on the system that the immigrants are causing.

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Originally Posted by CityBoyGoneCountry

Obviously your current government isn't working for you. Shouldn't it be YOUR responsibility to reform YOUR government, instead of running across the border to a country that has already made their own changes?

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*The following is made in jest*

Please tell that to the pilgrims and all the people who immigrated to this country... you know, like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington... those type of people. Can you imagine the Chutzpah they must have to think that they can just abandon the royal crown and start their own country? Sheesh! Cowards! Why in the world would people want a thing like "freedom" anyways? Can't they just work within the system?

What's that you say? The system is corrupt, and that you've already tried for 20 or 30 years? Try harder then! You're obviously just a worthless person if you can't work within the system.

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Originally Posted by Transition Force

Here's an easy solution to the "problem" right now : abolish all government welfare programs. Everyone will be richer (it'll give everyone about a 20% increase in salary), and it'll eliminate any alleged drain on the system that the immigrants are causing.

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The drain on the system is retirees who have paid into social security and medicare their whole life and now expect something for their money. Immigrants are willing to pay payroll taxes to help cover the bill, but for some reason we prefer they work under the table.

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Originally Posted by Hamlet

A fence is absolutely absurd.

If Republicans want to stop illegal immigration all they have to do is dry up the jobs. First offense a 5k fine. Second offense caught hiring an illegal alien and you're closed for business.

But they're not going to do that because they have no intention of stopping illegal immigration. There's too much money in it for the businesses who are paying them off.

The Democrats aren't any better because they're just drooling over that hispanic vote.

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IMO 3 things will help

first, Fence over heavily traveled areas.

Secondly, Dry up Jobs, yes stiff penalties, for people that hire illegals

third, repeal the 14th amendment. No more anchor babies.

Then make it easier for legal workers to come in. Cut all the red tape bull shit.

For the Dems.....think about illegal vote
Must have Proper Photo ID to Vote.....<<<< that is critical. Now all you need is a Public service bill. Witch is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Transition Force

*The following is made in jest*

Please tell that to the pilgrims and all the people who immigrated to this country... you know, like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington...

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Well, joke or not, Washington and Jefferson were born in America.

The "Pilgrims" were the ones that came in the 17th century. They were loyal to the Crown because Britain was reasonable. It only started getting bad in the 1760's, with the taxes and other problems.

We don't need to build a fence. We need to encourage all the millions of people who marched on "A day without immigrants" to go to Mexico and liberate their families and countrymen from a failing government. We need to offer them our assistance and our protection, and offer them citizenship, but only in exchange for the state of Mexico.

If they turn down our offer, then they are turning down EVERYTHING the United States has to offer. Do not give them jobs in the U.S., do not give them health care in the U.S., do not give them housing in the U.S., do not give them anything in the U.S.

I know it won't be easy for you. Revolutions never are. But if life was easy, we'd all be happy already.

They'd turn us down; machismo, pride. Heck, they fought trying to take part of our country from us already, they sure aren't going to give over theirs.

This fence idea is pretty stupid. I mean, I was envisioning a real wall, something concrete or stone 20 feet high mounted with barbed wire and armed machine gunners every few hundred yards. Like the DMZ separating North and South Korea or something. But that isn't what this is. This is gonna be a normal fence. Yeah, it'll take them an extra 2 minutes to climb over it, and they'll do it faster operating as teams carrying a ladder or two, but so what, they'll adjust and it'll be business as usual, and we'll have a very expensive but relatively useless minor delaying tactic. Good time to buy stock in the Mexican ladder industry!

I'm not saying the concept itself is wrong (I honestly don't know what to think about this), but the implementation is definitely very flawed.

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

They'd turn us down; machismo, pride. Heck, they fought trying to take part of our country from us already, they sure aren't going to give over theirs.

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Then we should not be feeding, clothing, or housing them. If they still insist on coming to the U.S., they can sleep in the gutters like the rest of the homeless. They're not going to stand up for themselves as long as we keep taking care of them.

How much pride do they sacrifice the instant they cross the border into the U.S.? As soon as they do that, they are admitting that Mexico sucks and they can have a better life by living somewhere else, a.k.a. the U.S.

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Originally Posted by andruejaysin

The drain on the system is retirees who have paid into social security and medicare their whole life and now expect something for their money. Immigrants are willing to pay payroll taxes to help cover the bill, but for some reason we prefer they work under the table.

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...the way I understand it ..illegal aliens..working in the states..don't pay state, local, federal taxes...my..place where I work..shit cannned...all who don't have a social sercurity number. Adios amgigos.(?sp)....we were friends.

Thats not the deal they get. This is the deal. When they bring the pot over to America from Mexico, they get to stay for free as a fringe benefit for helping flood our market with pot.
I like Mexican food and I like Mexican people, I don't see what the big deal is. There are plenty of white assholes I would like to get rid of though....

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Originally Posted by budzy malone

I like Mexican food and I like Mexican people, I don't see what the big deal is.

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That's because you aren't comprehending just how many there are, and the impact they have on our country.

It has nothing to do with who you like or don't like. It has everything to do with mathematics.

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Originally Posted by andruejaysin

The drain on the system is retirees who have paid into social security and medicare their whole life and now expect something for their money. Immigrants are willing to pay payroll taxes to help cover the bill, but for some reason we prefer they work under the table.

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The old folks paid into the system, the politicians spent all the money, The Illegals pay into the system (with phony SS cards and numbers) to make the payments to the old folks.

Who needs the illegals ?;)

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Originally Posted by budzy malone

Thats not the deal they get. This is the deal. When they bring the pot over to America from Mexico, they get to stay for free as a fringe benefit for helping flood our market with pot.
I like Mexican food and I like Mexican people, I don't see what the big deal is. There are plenty of white assholes I would like to get rid of though....

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You're one racist asshole I'd like to see leave this country.

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Originally Posted by budzy malone

Thats not the deal they get. This is the deal. When they bring the pot over to America from Mexico, they get to stay for free as a fringe benefit for helping flood our market with pot.
I like Mexican food and I like Mexican people, I don't see what the big deal is. There are plenty of white assholes I would like to get rid of though....

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You are too dumb to even know what the fuck you are talking about.

How about a 2 teir justice system....
I have a Drivers Lic. and car insurance.......Illegals dont need it.

Here in colorado Bill Ritter the DA..... was letting illegals with 2 pounds of meth of with a TRESSPASS TICKET......

Hey Budzy yoiu get cought with 2 pounds of meth your gone....

Do you have health insurance? I pay 700 a month. For my family. If you are Illegal...shit just go down to the emergancy room and demand and Interpreter and get free health care.

If you are pregnant... just come here and see a doctor (the first doc you have ever seen) Have a baby here and now you get ALL the Social Programs. Food stamps, Wefare, health Care.....Blah Blah

So when you are done pulling your head from your ass, go get a Burrito.


Im a white asshole......and I vote.

"But remember they dont want to Asimalate.... to our views they want us to learn spanish, and such."


I didnt realize all mexicans think the exact same way. Did you take a poll or something? How do you know what all mexicans think? If i said all jews were greedy, or all black people steal, i am a racist. Why is ok to hate mexicans now or lump them into one group?


"They're not going to stand up for themselves as long as we keep taking care of them."


You take care of them??? They do the jobs you wont, at a rate its illegal to pay, your entire lifestyle is financed by thier hard work, yet somehow, from your crazy perspective they owe you.



"That's because you aren't comprehending just how many there are, and the impact they have on our country."


The impact they have is positive. Houses are cheaper because they build them. All those construction jobs in my country pay 30 bucks an hour. What do illegals who build things in the usa make? The dishwasher, the cook the guy who built the resteraunt: all illegal, all paid poorly. Is it a mystery why the exact same meal costs less in the usa than it would in canada or europe or aus or nz? Everything is cheaper in america, but it comes at a cost that will need to be paid later. You cant have it both ways, you either have to pay everyone a fair wage or dont cry when the mexicans show up at hosptial looking for free healthcare for their children. They cant afford 700 bucks a month, you pay them slave wages. All you mexican haters would be the 1st to complain when your cost of living skyrockets because you dont have a cheap pool of labour to keep costs so low.



"Do you have health insurance? I pay 700 a month. For my family. If you are Illegal...shit just go down to the emergancy room and demand and Interpreter and get free health care."


Shouldnt it just be free for everyone? I pay nothing in my country. So i actually dont care that the local emergency room is filled with non white peoples. I dont even care if they are "legal" because i dont believe in the concept of illegal people.

People still sneak across DMZ every day, landmines dont stop them, getting shot on sight wont stop them. What is your fence going to do?

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Shouldnt it just be free for everyone? I pay nothing in my country.

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Yes it should. But that's not exactly true, is it? Don't you pay something like half your income in taxes?

All the US needs to do is make "illegal" immigrants pay for things such as taxes, health insurance, hospital bills, various state fees, parking tickets, and whatnot. But there's no way to enforce this, and employers really really like to have illegal immigrants working for them. I do believe that Mexico will eventually become part of the US, but not anytime soon. There's really no easy solution to the immigrant issue, and EU nations supposedly have a very similar issue there, although they actually have decent welfare systems and they are obligated to take care of anyone who is part of the EU. The world is on its way to a unified global system, but it's going to take awhile, and it's going to be difficult.

Sure there's an easy solution to the problem. Issue work permits to any immigrant that wants to work here, complete with a tax I.D. and deductions withheld. Then, come down like grim death on any employer who violates the law by hiring an illegal without a permt. Make stipulations that an illegal would have to return home every so often and have it renewed. (which any immigrant would be glad to do I think).

No fences, no fuss, no exploitation. A minimum wage could be set for immigrants. Incentives for speaking English, etc. Permits revoked for criminal behavior, and accrued points towards citizenship.

Why build a fence when they could place our military training facilities along the border and let them practice defending it? Kill two birds with one stone. They have to train anyway. Why not have them do something useful while they're burning up tax dollars?

Illegal immigration isn't a racial problem. It's a nationality issue. (Born two hundred miles farther south and my gringo ass would be Mexican.) If we would stop playing politices, stop kissing interest groups butts on both sides of the issue, and use a little sanity, this would be simple to deal with.

agreed, but we need a few mexicans to work at taco bell. :D

Hello canucktoker

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Originally Posted by canucktoker

I didnt realize all mexicans think the exact same way. Did you take a poll or something? How do you know what all mexicans think? If i said all jews were greedy, or all black people steal, i am a racist. Why is ok to hate mexicans now or lump them into one group?

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I agree with you. It's never okay. I have met many fine upstanding mexicans, some illegal.

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Originally Posted by canucktoker

You take care of them??? They do the jobs you wont, at a rate its illegal to pay, your entire lifestyle is financed by thier hard work, yet somehow, from your crazy perspective they owe you.

The impact they have is positive. Houses are cheaper because they build them. All those construction jobs in my country pay 30 bucks an hour. What do illegals who build things in the usa make? The dishwasher, the cook the guy who built the resteraunt: all illegal, all paid poorly. Is it a mystery why the exact same meal costs less in the usa than it would in canada or europe or aus or nz? Everything is cheaper in america, but it comes at a cost that will need to be paid later. You cant have it both ways, you either have to pay everyone a fair wage or dont cry when the mexicans show up at hosptial looking for free healthcare for their children. They cant afford 700 bucks a month, you pay them slave wages. All you mexican haters would be the 1st to complain when your cost of living skyrockets because you dont have a cheap pool of labour to keep costs so low.?

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You are incorrect in these statements. I live in Dallas and last year the average household family income went down 10 percent. Thats $4000!!!! This amount is NOT adjusted for inflation so you can add a bit to that.

The people who benefit are once again the rich. Example- If 2 similar houses are built one being done with illegal labor and another done with legal labor are you saying the illegal house will be cheaper? Whatever the market says is the price thats the price. The person who benefits is not you or me it's the contractor who built the house with the use of illegals.

The legals wont do jobs that illegals do BECAUSE the pay is low. If my pay goes from $14 an hour to $12 an hour I loose $4000 a year. (2 x 40 hrs/wk x 52 wks=4160) Why would anyone hire me when they can pay an illegal less. And really it's more than the $2 an hour the employer pays. Besides the point of the $2 an hour the employee doesn't pay taxes IF the money is under the table which happens quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by canucktoker

Shouldnt it (health insurance) just be free for everyone? I pay nothing in my country. So i actually dont care that the local emergency room is filled with non white peoples. I dont even care if they are "legal" because i dont believe in the concept of illegal people.

People still sneak across DMZ every day, landmines dont stop them, getting shot on sight wont stop them. What is your fence going to do?

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I don't know why you brought race (white people) into it since that is not the issue. It's also not about you or what you believe the terminology should be and that doesn't change the issue. The issue is the people that are working illegally, taking money out of the pockets of the working man as well as taking money out of the USA.
As long as the people who hire the illegals are not punished it will continue. The way to punish them is to hit them where it hurts, the wallet.

It's nice of you to put in your 2 cents but it sounds like you are not affected by these issues. Where I live, I am.

wanted to change "You are incorrect in these statements." to
I disagree with some of this

you said - either have to pay everyone a fair wage or dont cry when the mexicans show up at hospital looking for free healthcare for their children.

I agree completely. But for the working man it's not our call. The bo$$ does this and gets away with it almost all the time. He really has to piss someone off to get nailed.