Can God make a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it? (Discussion)

(I started this thread anew because I believe that threads over two pages scare off new posters.)

For the record this is a famous philosophical question with no real answer used to prepare the mind to think differently, creatively, and critically.

As such I am disappointed to hear the same combative baiting posts by the same people on every other thread on this board. My hope was that posing this question would cause the board to take a new direction and think philosophically rather than emotionally.

As I was wrong I will move on to analyze the responses.

Most (perhaps all) of you went with most students initial answer â??yes.â?� The reason for this usually is that when theists see â??Can Godâ?¦â?� they immediately say yes because they believe God can do anything.

One could rephrase the question negatively along the lines of: â??Can God not be able to lift a stone of infinite weight?â?� but that is really a different question.

If anyone would like to discuss this question then please post if not let this thread die. I am a lover of theology and I would like at least one thread on this board to have philosophical merit and not be filled with the emotional outbursts which make theological differences a bloodbath the world over.

To the Atheists:

I respect your positions and acknowledge that atheism is an important part of theology and philosophy so I am sorry that this philosophical question doesnâ??t work the same for you. If I had a more inclusive question I would use it.

This does not bar Atheists from commenting here.

I have been trying to find Pope Pius X (canonized)’s response to that question which I remember reading but I can’t seem to locate.

Why start a second thread for a question that makes absolutely no sense? If you don't believe in God, why bother analyze that question? If he doesn't exist, then he's not even there to create the rock. And if you do believe in him, you know he can. So what are you trying to figure out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

Why start a second thread for a question that makes absolutely no sense? If you don't believe in God, why bother analyze that question? If he doesn't exist, then he's not even there to create the rock. And if you do believe in him, you know he can. So what are you trying to figure out?

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Because that question is the entire debate about God and all it's important ramifications manifested in one sentence.

Before you can answer that question you must first ask a different question:

What is a "God"?

When I was religous, I did not believe in a God that was material, that a God that was a man or incarnated as a man as the Christians and Hindus do.

So to answer, I would say No, because God does not lift - that is something us humans do.

When your dealing with God lovers its almost impossible to talk rationally rather than emotionally about anything. That's why relgion is fucked, your truth is not the next persons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Transition Force

Before you can answer that question you must first ask a different question:

What is a "God"?

When I was religous, I did not believe in a God that was material, that a God that was a man or incarnated as a man as the Christians and Hindus do.

So to answer, I would say No, because God does not lift - that is something us humans do.

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Thats what I would of said. This question is flawed, due to what you beleive is god. Rephrase it into something thats bound by our own logical laws, and then we can squabble.

No but you see everything Humans do is flawed, therefore any question presented will be too....I dunno though, how can you create something you do not understand? yet humans can build things they cannot lift physically by themselves, but with many people they can :S , but what if God created this stone that he himself could not lift, but if he created another one of himself as well could :S... i dunno this question really puts your brain to work andi coudl go on for hours and still not comprehend so I think I will quit while im ahead...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

Why start a second thread for a question that makes absolutely no sense? If you don't believe in God, why bother analyze that question? If he doesn't exist, then he's not even there to create the rock. And if you do believe in him, you know he can. So what are you trying to figure out?

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I am a strong atheist and I love these topics. But for me it is only an exercise in philosophy. To argue we all just must assume that he does exist and have some operational definition of what â??heâ?� is.

Usually when people argue they assume there own beliefs as true but this does not have to be the case. I can, and have, made arguments for God only because I was speaking to an atheist with very weak arguments. And even though they share my overall belief I cannot support an invalid reason for having them.

Now on to the debate:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Transition Force

So to answer, I would say No, because God does not lift - that is something us humans do.

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This is only but one example of the argument which as I believe is:

Could an all-powerful being create something more powerful than it’s self?

I cannot go further without a better idea of God…

Is he all-powerful = has infinite power
Or is he the highest power but not necessarily infinite?

If I assume this god to be the highest power then Yes I would say he could create something more powerful than himself

We humans can create machines stronger than us, cars faster than us and computers that can think faster than us.

We humans can do this because our bodies aren’t made out of the strongest or fastest material. Maybe this is true of god, what ever constitutes god could be a “substance” (not in the physical sense) that could be very powerful, good and knowing but each for these characteristics would be better created out of something else.

anyone? you dont have to respond you can post a different idea too