Can God make a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

Can God make a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

:confused:

careful man, paradox questions tend to create arguments on this board

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

careful man, paradox questions tend to create arguments on this board

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Perfect.

By asking this question, you're proposing a logical paradox which in and of itself can only exist in the conceptual form. Anyway,to create the stone which is so heavy he can't lift it, it must indeed possess a force which is stronger than god. So, the question really is "can god create an entity more powerfull than himself?". Since god by definition is infinite in power and omniscience, the answer is a solid "no." Not because of a limitation in the power of god, however, but only due to a limitation in the boundaries of logic. Hence, the paradox exists in hypothetical terms only.
(This is also why I never liked this particular atheist argument against the existence of god, challenging the concept of an omnipitant being).

I hope that all comes out making sense, I'm on a very strange, pleasurable, and powerfull high right now.

For the record I did not pose this question as an atheist argument against God. Rather as a question that I hope will produce thought.

oh, sorry if I was coming off as accusing you of doing that, tha'ts not what I meant. I was just mentioning others using that as a side-note.

"Can jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that even he cannot eat it?"
-Simpsons, Homer Smokes Pot episode.

Yeah, i think it would be awsome if he made a strain that got u sooo stoned u couldnt lift yourself out your seat.. :dance: :dance:

The following sentence is true.
The previous sentence is false.

I always liked that one.

I love this type of question.

However, an even more interesting argument against the supposedly omnipotent and omniscient Judeo-Christian God comes up when you consider the idea of free will.

The majority of us, including those with an unshakable faith in their God, believe that, as humans, we have free will. We have the power to make our own choices, to decide what we will do, where we will go, and what actions we will take or refrain from taking in the near future.

Now, I'm making an assumption here, and that is that most people feel that they have free will. I'm sure there are some who don't, and this argument is only for the devout who do.

When you take into account the fact that the God so many millions worship is, according to their holy books, all-knowing and all-powerful. Now, I've taken this to mean that God exists outside of time and space. If this is so, then his infinite power contradicts the notion that we as humans have any sort of free will. At all.

Think about it. At this very moment, sitting in your computer chair, or wherever you are reading this, you feel like you have a choice with what to do in the approaching seconds. You could get up, turn the computer off, surf to another website, scratch your nose, or do any number of actions or nonactions that you choose.

Right?

Not so fast. While this may be true, if you happen to believe in the God I'm talking about, you really have no choice in deciding your actions. For He exists OUTSIDE of time, and therefore knows exactly what you will do at any given moment.

Logically, one must assume that the concept of free will that we all take for granted contradicts the existence of the God I've described.

This doesn't necessarily contradict the existence of ANY god, of course, along with the "Can God lose his keys" argument. It simply refutes the notion, held by so many, that the God they believe in is omniscient; all-powerful.

Just some food for thought. :-)

I also like these thoughts, I shall present a small deviation.

God created the Universe
God is all-good, all-powerful and all-knowing
so, When he created the universe he had complete control over all atoms
And when he created it, he had complete knowledge of how they would interact
and With this knowledge he would be able to predict how these atoms would collide forever.
So At that instant god would know how everything will work out in the universe until infinity

If God has knowledge of the future, and complete control over the current.

Then does not god have complete control over everything, throughout time
does this negate some definitions of free will

Ok so nothing about the stone?

Whatever, thats cool.

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Originally Posted by harris7

I also like these thoughts, I shall present a small deviation.

God created the Universe
God is all-good, all-powerful and all-knowing
so, When he created the universe he had complete control over all atoms
And when he created it, he had complete knowledge of how they would interact
and With this knowledge he would be able to predict how these atoms would collide forever.
So At that instant god would know how everything will work out in the universe until infinity

If God has knowledge of the future, and complete control over the current.

Then does not god have complete control over everything, throughout time
does this negate some definitions of free will

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Without god we will Die. We can Freely Choose to Die and not Follow His rules and standards. Thats Free Will, Being able to choose Death or Life. Only by Following what Jesus Tought and learning and Teaching about his Father Jehovah God, Can we recive Life. God Gives life to deserving Ones. Sin's wage is Death. Simple.



P.S. the stone thing is just goofy. he is not contained by physic Laws. He made them. They never control him.

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Originally Posted by Krogith

Without god we will Die. We can Freely Choose to Die and not Follow His rules and standards. Thats Free Will, Being able to choose Death or Life. Only by Following what Jesus Tought and learning and Teaching about his Father Jehovah God, Can we recive Life. God Gives life to deserving Ones. Sin's wage is Death. Simple.

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But how is it free will if god designed the entire universe, set every event in motion, and in his omniscience, knows the decisions every person will make? It was god's doing that formed the universe, and the earth. It was god's doing that humanity came about, and it was god's doing in regard to how every human being was designed, physically and mentally. Whether or not we believe in god depends on what factors formed our minds the way they are today. There are only 2 factors that can influence our possition on god, that being external influence which shapes our perceptions of the world (all of which god set in motion, and can track till the end of time). The other factor being the nature of ones mind, the internal mental processes that which put together logic in a certain order so as to come to a conclusion. If god created the order of the entire universe, knows what will happen to every atom, and because of the physical processes set in motion had my mind formed the way it is today, isn't it gods fault I don't believe in him? We can all say we have "Freedom of will" to choose god or not, but everything from the world I experience to the nature of the mind I posess is the work of god, and therefor god's doing.

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Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall

God is infinite. He can do anything. His powers are absolutely limitless. So in answer to the question - yes, he can make a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it, but only if he wants to. That is what I believe.

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ahh, but:

Once that stone is created arn't Gods powers less than limitless? This is akin to saying that God has a limit on his powers.

It's a brian teaser.:D

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Originally Posted by BluntX

Yeah, i think it would be awsome if he made a strain that got u sooo stoned u couldnt lift yourself out your seat.. :dance: :dance:

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Heh, that's how I interpreted the question too.

If a heavy stone induces creativity in creative people, and God being considered the ultimate creator, it stands to reason that this Being should benefit well from a spliff before work! :D

Okay, go ahead and flame me for my irreverence. =p

haha as the popes representitive i take great offence from that remark stinky..i sentence you to 420 are fathers and 420 hail marry's.

~I don't care if it rains or freezes as long as i have my plastic jesus~

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Originally Posted by the yeag

i sentence you to 420 are fathers and 420 hail marry's.
~

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Good luck getting that penance out of me; I was raised Unitarian Universalist! :D

I learned a couple Robert Frost poems at church, can I recite those instead?

yeah just for you..i like the mending wall..wait is that robert service

Yeag, I think you belong in this forum, especially with your new avatar.
Tends to lighten things up a bit, don't you think?

well i am the pontiff of pot...i am not even religous...i just wear my st. christopher cause the ladies think it's sexy.

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Originally Posted by the yeag

...i just wear my st. christopher cause the ladies think it's sexy.

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Oh my goodness.... you have to have a furry chest for that to happen!

no i'ts kinda smooth, and i dont wear a members only jacket

hey stinky why dont ya ever come in the chat.....lots of great people there

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

But how is it free will if god designed the entire universe, set every event in motion, and in his omniscience, knows the decisions every person will make? It was god's doing that formed the universe, and the earth. It was god's doing that humanity came about, and it was god's doing in regard to how every human being was designed, physically and mentally. Whether or not we believe in god depends on what factors formed our minds the way they are today. There are only 2 factors that can influence our possition on god, that being external influence which shapes our perceptions of the world (all of which god set in motion, and can track till the end of time). The other factor being the nature of ones mind, the internal mental processes that which put together logic in a certain order so as to come to a conclusion. If god created the order of the entire universe, knows what will happen to every atom, and because of the physical processes set in motion had my mind formed the way it is today, isn't it gods fault I don't believe in him? We can all say we have "Freedom of will" to choose god or not, but everything from the world I experience to the nature of the mind I posess is the work of god, and therefor god's doing.

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There is a huge sorce for you to goto and learn about and make sence of, It's called the bible. Doing reaserch and learning about God takes effort. You decide ither to place your effort in the serch for god or into other things.

Self intrest is just what the word means. You are decideing you know best and presuing your own path. If you truely want to know god you have to look and apply. It takes work. You choose to ignore that work or choose to follow it.

It has to make sence for you to belive it right? Well look into it and serch. If you choose to do your own path, then thats what your chooseing to do. God does not want people to just follow because they have to. He wants the ones who seek him out and put effort into why God gave Them life.

And being a Gift given to you, that you would not normaly have. Don't you owe God that Effort? He freely gave you life. Choose.

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Originally Posted by Krogith

There is a huge sorce for you to goto and learn about and make sence of, It's called the bible. Doing reaserch and learning about God takes effort. You decide ither to place your effort in the serch for god or into other things.

Self intrest is just what the word means. You are decideing you know best and presuing your own path. If you truely want to know god you have to look and apply. It takes work. You choose to ignore that work or choose to follow it.

It has to make sence for you to belive it right? Well look into it and serch. If you choose to do your own path, then thats what your chooseing to do. God does not want people to just follow because they have to. He wants the ones who seek him out and put effort into why God gave Them life.

And being a Gift given to you, that you would not normaly have. Don't you owe God that Effort? He freely gave you life. Choose.

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You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. When I believed in god I used a lot of the rediculous logic I've heard people use, but more often I'd just say "well such and such is so complex in this universe, it must be designed". But after a while I realized that I had to critically examine all the evidence, otherwise I'm just believing what's nicest to believe. I spent hours upon hours, days upon days, examing every argument I could find for the existence of god. And I can honestly say that no matter how hard I searched, no matter how many sites and books claimed to have "proof of god", I could also see some glaring leap in logic. I hate to break it to you, but most atheists aren't there because they just haven't given it much thought. On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence, that it's a lot of ancient mythology and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. When I believed in god I used a lot of the rediculous logic I've heard people use, but more often I'd just say "well such and such is so complex in this universe, it must be designed". But after a while I realized that I had to critically examine all the evidence, otherwise I'm just believing what's nicest to believe. I spent hours upon hours, days upon days, examing every argument I could find for the existence of god. And I can honestly say that no matter how hard I searched, no matter how many sites and books claimed to have "proof of god", I could also see some glaring leap in logic. I hate to break it to you, but most atheists aren't there because they just haven't given it much thought. On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence, that it's a lot of ancient mythology and nothing more.

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Every time you come across a Chirch teaching and it doesn't make sence it's time to move on to a differnt Chirch. Bible truths are differnt than what some preacher is teaching.

You have to find a religion that Follows the bible to the letter and not picking, chooseing and confusing.

If you simply follow what the bible says and read it and not what some bozo has said to make himself money. You will find the Truth. Even simple things like the Cross that many people have made an idol, they are FALSE. That is a False pratice. Just like all the holladays. All are based on False teachings, Not the Bible. The trinity where God and Jesus and the Holy Goast are one thing, is False teaching not suported by the Bible.

Seeking God means Following the Bible and not what people have made up. Finding people who apply Bible Truths and follow it to the letter. Like War, anyone who suports War is not teaching Bible Truths. Then you say what about war in the bible? You'll find that the wars in the Bible where setting up Jesus Blood line and we are to be praticeing War no more After Jesus Death. After Jesus died we have a New covenet. Now we have a chance to learn about his father Jehovah (yhwh) throu Jesus life and can recive the everlasting life that Adam and eve lost so long ago. But we have to apply what Jesus did and his teachings. We have to learn about his Father and teach others about his Father.

Just because satan's system has crupted most of the world today doesn't mean to just give up. Most religions are not following the Bible and/or they Twist things like the cross into an idol. GET out of these False Religions. Seek people who pratice what the Bible Teaches. This crupt world is spinning into distruction, don't be part of that.

[quote=mrdevious]You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. . On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence,QUOTE]

Same with me, I was raised religious by my family. I later found out my father wasnâ??t religious. I was told things in church, Sunday school, or by my many religious relatives and I really started questioning it when I was about 14.

I think what you donâ??t realize is that I would love to believe, I wish it were true. That would be fucking great. But unfortunately I cannot escape my thoughts or my logic.
And If there truly is a god, why would he punish me for using what he gave me. (not that this worries me)

I see belief in god in the same way I see racism. In both cases there are people who believe it very strongly. Neither are based on anything factual, both are only supported by brainwashing and dogma but in the latter case people would agree that it is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Krogith

Every time you come across a Chirch teaching and it doesn't make sence it's time to move on to a differnt Chirch. Bible truths are differnt than what some preacher is teaching.

You have to find a religion that Follows the bible to the letter and not picking, chooseing and confusing.

If you simply follow what the bible says and read it and not what some bozo has said to make himself money. You will find the Truth. Even simple things like the Cross that many people have made an idol, they are FALSE. That is a False pratice. Just like all the holladays. All are based on False teachings, Not the Bible. The trinity where God and Jesus and the Holy Goast are one thing, is False teaching not suported by the Bible.

Seeking God means Following the Bible and not what people have made up. Finding people who apply Bible Truths and follow it to the letter. Like War, anyone who suports War is not teaching Bible Truths. Then you say what about war in the bible? You'll find that the wars in the Bible where setting up Jesus Blood line and we are to be praticeing War no more After Jesus Death. After Jesus died we have a New covenet. Now we have a chance to learn about his father Jehovah (yhwh) throu Jesus life and can recive the everlasting life that Adam and eve lost so long ago. But we have to apply what Jesus did and his teachings. We have to learn about his Father and teach others about his Father.

Just because satan's system has crupted most of the world today doesn't mean to just give up. Most religions are not following the Bible and/or they Twist things like the cross into an idol. GET out of these False Religions. Seek people who pratice what the Bible Teaches. This crupt world is spinning into distruction, don't be part of that.

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I was never talking about the church or even any religions though. I was only referring to the fact that I searched out every logical argument for god i could find, and they all fell flat. You keep telling me that I will "find god" if I read thoroughly through the bible, but it seems you want me to just read it and believe it word for word, for no other reason than believing it. There are plenty of ancient religions, with all sorts of gods from Thor, to aphrodite, to Ra and Zeus. All these religions would have their grandiose stories as well, but I'm not going to just assume it's true simply because I read it. No offense or anything Krogith, but I can't help feeling that your concept of "searching" for god is just believing whatever supports him.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I was never talking about the church or even any religions though. I was only referring to the fact that I searched out every logical argument for god i could find, and they all fell flat. You keep telling me that I will "find god" if I read thoroughly through the bible, but it seems you want me to just read it and believe it word for word, for no other reason than believing it. There are plenty of ancient religions, with all sorts of gods from Thor, to aphrodite, to Ra and Zeus. All these religions would have their grandiose stories as well, but I'm not going to just assume it's true simply because I read it. No offense or anything Krogith, but I can't help feeling that your concept of "searching" for god is just believing whatever supports him.

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Sorry if you feel hes not there. God does exsist and he would want you to seek him out and he would give you something to make sence of him. The Bible makes perfect sence, and science has proven it right. Why would you choose another path? Your understanding of life is going to get you somewhere? All of our Human race has died and doesn't come back. So why do you want to belive Humans?

What proof do you have that he does not exsist? And what facts do you have to to suport that you are the most advanced thing and this ( life ) is it? When you know that you can not prove the bible wrong, what makes you choose otherwise? Because you just don;t want to except life as a gift? That you would owe it to God to give him time and apply what he teaches?

Why do you fight the fact that bible principles would lead you to a better life? You like the world and it's distruction and missery? You think you know better than what God laid out for you?

Reject it then. You choose. This is the whole point of life and freewill, We are all chooseing what we want to, or chooseing to follow what God set out for us. Thats the point. Satan started Humans on the corse of Sin, you choose to turn to God, or turn away. But God's plain of a perfect earth FULL of Humans that want to serve him all working in harmony with Jehovah God's rules, Will come and all who choose to not be part of it wont be.

This world today that we all see is a result of being with out god. See what happends when were not following his standards? This world today is proof enouf that we need God and the order he provides. What else would you need to prove to you that Humans would distroy them selfs? We as a Human Race have proven we need God. Thus proveing Satan Wrong.

We would never be able to have peace and happyness with out God.

i think it is funny that you believe that people who are religious are happier than non believers. I bet you also believe that people who are religious are more giving too. Are they also more altruistic.

Lucky for us these are things that can actually be studied. And they have been, and there has been no difference found to date.

the entire religion is base on self interest. Be good for other people and you’ll go to heaven. Why cant we just be good to each other because it is right.

But I guess you were right, the world was a lot better when religion ruled. ?you know burning women, homosexuals and everyone not like yourselves. Yup back then the world was great.

christians throughout history should be seen as equals with the Nazis. For example they killed 9 million women through witch hunts.

Oooo and how about the third degree ever heard of that. It is the third level of torture were they put the “mouth pear” in your mouth. It is a steel ball that slowly expands … and you can take it from there.

This was left for people who didn’t like your beliefs

The earth is a rock and God has his way with it, so how heavy of a rock you talkin?
Can the universe itself contain the rock that God himself cannot lift?

These threads just keep going around and around like a merry go round. Enjoy the ride :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Krogith

Sorry if you feel hes not there. God does exsist and he would want you to seek him out and he would give you something to make sence of him. The Bible makes perfect sence, and science has proven it right.

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lol, "science has proven it". Well you can't really prove whether or not a lot of the stories happened. But I suppose the "scientific proof" (a term a lot of people here use thinking it makes their argument solid) would be consistencies in biblical stories, like the fish skeletons found on top of mountains coinciding with Noah's Arc. Problem is, this "scientific proof" only exists because christians choose to interpret these vague pieces of evidence. Like if there's a flood: "see, noah had a flood! We just proved there was a flood! That proves noah's arc is true!" (rather than just assuming that geographical changes have happened naturally and there are solid geological explanations as to how they happened). I've seen no evidence "proving" the bible right that isn't vague enough to also coincide with continental drift, natural geographical changes, evolutionary processes, and many more.

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Why would you choose another path?

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Because I choose to believe in reality rather than the nicest idea. The only way humanity will one day create the world we need, is by figuring it out ourselves.

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Your understanding of life is going to get you somewhere? All of our Human race has died and doesn't come back. So why do you want to belive Humans?

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And your understanding of life is going to get your somewhere I can't go? Your argument works under the assumption that you're already right, rather than making the point of why you are right.

I don't believe "humans", I believe my own logic. and humans are the ones who invented religion anyway.

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What proof do you have that he does not exsist?

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If you even heard the proof, would you actually convert? I don't think so.
Regardless, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. and don't try to spin the logic into "but you're claming he doesn't exist". The world we live in without god is directly visible, detectable, and repeatable. The world that exists with a god looking over us is a claim, a concept, an explanation to what we can't yet understand. I don't have to prove something doesn't exist anymore than I'd have to prove the invisble flying spagetti monster doesn't exist. I can't prove ANYTHING that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. The only logical "proof" that's needed is for the existence of what you're claiming does exist.

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And what facts do you have to to suport that you are the most advanced thing and this ( life ) is it?

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I'm not sure what you mean by "the most advanced thing", but I didn't really say anything to that effect. but again, I don't need to prove that his life is it, and it very well may carry on in one form or another. But if you're going to claim that life exists beyond death, it's up to you to back up that claim, not for me to just disprove everything anybody can conjure up before it's considered logically invalid.

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When you know that you can not prove the bible wrong, what makes you choose otherwise?

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There are plenty of flaws in the bible that can be proven wrong. Even so, the bible is just a book of stories. Can you prove the pagan's are wrong? how about the babylonians, egyptians, shintoists, buddhists, hindu's? You can never prove anything wrong when it never existed (this seems to be a repeated theme).

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Because you just don;t want to except life as a gift?

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I want to know, to the closest possible extent, the true nature of life. I don't believe I'm going to accomplish that believing in dieties.

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That you would owe it to God to give him time and apply what he teaches?

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Again, trying to prove you're right by already assuming you're right. I don't owe imaginary beings anything. I made my effort, I did my research, and arguement's supporting god have all been lame.

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Why do you fight the fact that bible principles would lead you to a better life?

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Personally, I think Buddhist principles have led me to a better life. And I tried christian principles for a good 18 years. I have no doubt that christian principles help you life a good life, but it's not for everybody. And besides, believing in something on a moral basis rather than a logical basis, is just wishfull thinking. I wouldn't mind believing that malaria didn't kill millions of people every year, that won't make it so.

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You like the world and it's distruction and missery?

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No, I'm rather saddened at all the uncessesary suffering that goes on in the world. That doesn't mean believing in some magical man in the sky will make it all better.

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You think you know better than what God laid out for you?

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STILL making an argument based on the assumption that you're already right. Do you do you seriously believe in something because the concept of your belief would make it right to believe in it? It's incredibly circular logic.

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Reject it then. You choose. This is the whole point of life and freewill, We are all chooseing what we want to, or chooseing to follow what God set out for us. Thats the point. Satan started Humans on the corse of Sin, you choose to turn to God, or turn away. But God's plain of a perfect earth FULL of Humans that want to serve him all working in harmony with Jehovah God's rules, Will come and all who choose to not be part of it wont be.

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etc etc.... Believe in your god all you want, I'm not crossing over because of stories about this "satan" who goes around tricking people.

Remember everybody, Logic is just the devil whispering in your ear.

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Originally Posted by Pass That Shit

The earth is a rock and God has his way with it, so how heavy of a rock you talkin?
Can the universe itself contain the rock that God himself cannot lift?

These threads just keep going around and around like a merry go round. Enjoy the ride :thumbsup:

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Thank you for keeping your post rock related.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

Regardless, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. and don't try to spin the logic into "but you're claming he doesn't exist". The world we live in without god is directly visible, detectable, and repeatable. The world that exists with a god looking over us is a claim, a concept, an explanation to what we can't yet understand. I don't have to prove something doesn't exist anymore than I'd have to prove the invisble flying spagetti monster doesn't exist. I can't prove ANYTHING that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. The only logical "proof" that's needed is for the existence of what you're claiming

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agreed

Krogith, you must understand that we do not HAVE a belief. It is that we lack yours. And it is very difficult to prove the validity of lacking a belief. In fact every person lacks an unlimited number of crazy beliefs like the boogie man and shit like that. No one goes around asking us to justify not having these beliefs. And as mrdevious said, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

Science cannot relate to religion so lets stop trying to prove it right or wrong with science. In science a theory must be falsifiable otherwise it is left to the philosophers.

This is why Freud’s work isn’t useful, because it cannot be proved wrong. His ideas explain Everything about the psyche but then again so does Adler’s theory. So we have two different belief systems that explain every possible event. At least one of them has to be wrong but we will never know. Same goes for religion, there are lots of different religions and most are inconsistent with each other. Therefore some or all must be wrong.


ps- I would say the rock would also have to be unlimitlessly powerful. Why can we only have one all-powerful agent can two not exist?

"Thank you for keeping your post rock related."



"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

I couldn't resist this shameless plug :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

By asking this question, you're proposing a logical paradox which in and of itself can only exist in the conceptual form. Anyway,to create the stone which is so heavy he can't lift it, it must indeed possess a force which is stronger than god. So, the question really is "can god create an entity more powerfull than himself?". Since god by definition is infinite in power and omniscience, the answer is a solid "no." Not because of a limitation in the power of god, however, but only due to a limitation in the boundaries of logic. Hence, the paradox exists in hypothetical terms only.
(This is also why I never liked this particular atheist argument against the existence of god, challenging the concept of an omnipitant being).

I hope that all comes out making sense, I'm on a very strange, pleasurable, and powerfull high right now.

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but God probably is farther than the boundaries of logic, and they do not apply to him...possibly....also I think its possible God could create something superior to himself, but is smart enough not too... because well hes out of a job, but how can something possess more knowledge than an all knowing entity :confused: this is more confusing than Brahman.....

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Originally Posted by IamTheWalrus

but God probably is farther than the boundaries of logic, and they do not apply to him...possibly....also I think its possible God could create something superior to himself, but is smart enough not too... because well hes out of a job, but how can something possess more knowledge than an all knowing entity :confused: this is more confusing than Brahman.....

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I agree with you on both counts. If God does exist, I would not expect understand him. us humans on the other hand are slaves to logic. I do on the other hand expect logic to apply to our beliefs

But on the note about the all powerful being creating a more powerful being. If we were to think about this as infinite power.
There are different â??levelsâ?� of infinity. Some infinities are greater than others. I donâ??t feel like going into the proof. But you could think about it like that, maybe

well Mr Devious, with regards to you original question, the answer would probably be one that we could not even fathom. I.E., it is not a simple yes or no, the best way i could describe it would be:

Pretend you are at the beach, and have a sand bucket. You fill the bucket with water for the first time ever and think "Wow, i can hold water in my hands" then you think "i want to use this bucket as a means to hold the whole ocean in my hands". Well, in our physical world, it would be physically impossible to do so. However, God would be able to fit all oceans, and anything else into that same sized bucket. That would be something most of us do not understand 100%