The Illusion Of Communication

Through body language, facial expression, tone, and the words used to describe something, we humans attempt to communicate our perception of reality amongst each other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>But we all die alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>We never truly understand one another. >>>>>>>>>>>>We are always, forever, alone.

We pretend to "grasp" another human's perception through comparison to our own, or through chemicals designed to make us feel as if we've "bonded",
but we cannot truly connect.

Our entire lives, from start to finish, one big battle with happyness and a sense of satisfaction from life. If you've ever done psychedelics... They can make you aware of the true distance between living things. I can never truly know if the feeling that I am trying to convey to my friend is the same thing as he feels. Unless his mental "trip" and chemical balance throughout life has been almost identical to my own, our expirience cannot be replicated simply by communicating.
The sense of thinking something brilliant while high comes from a myriad of chemical interactions. When you wake up the next day and read "GREAT IDEA: FEED CHICKEN BACON" next to a picture of an egg hatching a peice of bacon, do you really feel such a sense of awe like you did beforehand? Now imagine if your friend who was with you at the time wasn't stoned when you came up with that idea. Did he feel the sense of awe? No.
But this goes on every single day. Stupidity and emotional haze override our sense of rationality, and lead us to beleive that when we communicate with people and they act like they've expirienced the same life-chemicals as you, you truly do understand what it feels like to "be" the other person. But you don't.

We are truly alone, in our own minds. Encapsulated within a fragile skull, viewing what we perceive as others just like us but in different physical positioning on the planet... Should I just give in? Is rationality, the verbal mind, truly the cause of my pain? Should I let go, let my emotions and chemicals re-trick me, push me towards an illusion that allows me to feel a sense of belonging?

I don't want to be human anymore. I'm sick of this feeling.
I hate this wandering fear, the constant barrage of apathy, instant gratification, despise of myself and others... I feel out of place as a human being. The sad part is, a therapist would most likely tell me even THIS feeling is a product of my chemical imbalances, the result of my place in society and my relationships. I can never gain complete control when I am Trapped, SUFFOCATED, WITHIN this physical plane.

And i'm sick of lying on this site. A fucking internet forum, i've sunk this low to feed off my primal desires for human interaction.
I know very well that people look down upon those younger that them, seeing them as less informed, immature, that their opinions can never truly be taken seriously due to their age. But I want it off my chest.
I'm 16, a virgin, live with my father, sort of dropped out due to depression last year, I wear glasses, I have a strong distaste for most teenagers, especially when they act like teenagers. I hate the way they force themselves into groups or titles or fads due to social placement, how they succumb so deeply into their primal needs. I have one friend. And the friendship is based on music appreciation and drug use. That's it. Even that relationship is dying. I find anger and dullness to be the biggest personality turnoffs on this site, while I feel a desire to be noticed and liked by Birdgirl, or ItsAPlant, or anyone who's shown intelligence and a sense of humor about life.


Does anyone here think they understand?
Any advice? Opinion? Shut the fuck up you whiny teenager, so many african children are starving right now and all you can do is complain about your life?

My social awareness tells me to feel self-centered, selfish, pathetic, but I can't remove myself from my true being like so many "tough" men pretend to do.
the beauty of this world only manages to distract me for so long... I need something permanent.

If you're a teenager, then it's not your fault you're all fucked up feeling. You talk about checmicals, well son you have them gushing out of every pore. You can't expect to understant it, it never makes much sense at a young age. Give it another 6 or 7 years and it'll start to come together. You don't have a good view of the world, you've got too many hormones running around to get a good look.

me and my friends have a fuckin bond i now i wont die alone unless he dies first, but we do have a bond all the time even when whur not high

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Originally Posted by the joint meister

me and my friends have a fuckin bond i now i wont die alone unless he dies first, but we do have a bond all the time even when whur not high

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How old are you and your buds? Just wondering...

"I'm not who you think I am; I'm only what I think you think I am"

i heard that from my sociology teacher, and it makes a lot of sense. people are an interesting bunch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the joint meister

me and my friends have a fuckin bond i now i wont die alone unless he dies first, but we do have a bond all the time even when whur not high

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everyone dies alone, no-one will walk down the "tunnel of light" with you, no-one can share your death, u may not be alone WHEN you die, but u will still die alone... i find it kinda ironic that the only certainty in life... is death.

And Inferius is right about one other thing, no 2 ppl are the same or will percieve the world in the same way, our brains grow and develop in different ways due to our own personal experiences, the choices we make and don't make... those are what define us, and what is known as "personality"... is just chemical reactions to situations and decisions...in short, everyones brain grows differently... for example.. taxi/cab drivers have bigger brains than the average human = FACT... because certain parts of the brain grow bigger (in their case the part that defines navigation)

and hey dude u aint as alone as u think, i'm 21 and i still dont understand the world and most ppl in it :thumbsup:

no you and your friend will not see the exact same ideas you see but thats the beauty of it. you keep unveiling each other like upwrapping a gift. you'll eventually meet each other at the same end if you're both willing to work on it.
i love this part of communication, if you guys thought the exact same thing there would be nothint to communicate and then things would get boring youd just sit there staring at each other not knowing what to say.

for me i love talking to people and possibly tapping into their minds. its just so exciting.
saying that you'll die alone is depressing, it sounds like it coming from a depression somewhere deep in your mind. i hope it'll change for you soon, life just isnt as good as it should be if you're in the shit.

feel good soon friend.

i hate the starving children in africa argument... just cuase they have a bad life doesnt mean u have to be happy....

and inferius i understand wat u mean i have very similar feelings like that... i understnad but i dont no :p i can see the diferences but ive felt many similar emotions... im just a tad younger than u

at the end of the day tho, ppl lie, its a fact of life.

"You live
you love
you die
each time you slide away
still you try, and try, but you know
some things in life will never go your way"

- PGroove "It Starts Where It Ends"

I think you're at an age where you're going to be constantly changing, trying to find yourself. There's no way I'd even think I would be the person I am today way back in my freshman year of high school. But it's all about self-discovery and soul-searching.

I like how Crudemood summed up what it's like to be friends with someone else. Each of you, though obviously different in your own ways, each bring something to the table, and hopefully learn from each other as your bond grows. But if the bond is created on a lie or something unstable, I can see that 'friendship' crashing.

And Gizmo - - I never realized or thought you were lying on this site, and still don't. I knew you were around that age, that you dropped out, and that you despise the high school fads and trends. Unless you were lying about something else? I just don't see it.

I've always enjoyed reading what you have to say, for the longest time. Nearly every one of your posts I try and read. They all have voice and personality and very often a sense of humor similiar to my own. It just kind of shocks me that you're so down and out about life, love, and happiness.

My advice, if I can even offer any, would be to meet some new people, possibly outside the prison walls of high school. Get involved in community service, or a soup kitchen for the homeless. It sounds like you just need something to belong to, something to maybe bring you back around to the idea that humans may indeed 'die alone', but the connections you make with some people are ever-after and constant, forever. And good luck with the ladies - - just don't go out and screw anything that moves b/c you're better than that! Anyone that recognizes who you truely are, as I think I have for the most part, will be lucky to have you. They're out there. Now you just gotta bridge the gap and try and meet her halfway.

Good luck with your journey Gizmo, and remember - - do not eat chicken after midnight! ~

i agree with almost everything Plant said, except for the part about not fuckin anything that moves, i say if it makes u happy to fuck whoever u want whenever u want, then, as the NIKE adds say... Just Do It!! :cool:

oh and Inferius dude, dont worry bout bein a virgin or livin with your dad or none of that, i didnt pop my cherry till i was 19, and i'm 21 still livin with my mum, so dont worry dude, it aint all that bad :thumbsup:

chin up man... peace :stoned:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inferius

Through body language, facial expression, tone, and the words used to describe something, we humans attempt to communicate our perception of reality amongst each other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>But we all die alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>We never truly understand one another. >>>>>>>>>>>>We are always, forever, alone.

We pretend to "grasp" another human's perception through comparison to our own, or through chemicals designed to make us feel as if we've "bonded",
but we cannot truly connect.

Our entire lives, from start to finish, one big battle with happyness and a sense of satisfaction from life. If you've ever done psychedelics... They can make you aware of the true distance between living things. I can never truly know if the feeling that I am trying to convey to my friend is the same thing as he feels. Unless his mental "trip" and chemical balance throughout life has been almost identical to my own, our expirience cannot be replicated simply by communicating.
The sense of thinking something brilliant while high comes from a myriad of chemical interactions. When you wake up the next day and read "GREAT IDEA: FEED CHICKEN BACON" next to a picture of an egg hatching a peice of bacon, do you really feel such a sense of awe like you did beforehand? Now imagine if your friend who was with you at the time wasn't stoned when you came up with that idea. Did he feel the sense of awe? No.
But this goes on every single day. Stupidity and emotional haze override our sense of rationality, and lead us to beleive that when we communicate with people and they act like they've expirienced the same life-chemicals as you, you truly do understand what it feels like to "be" the other person. But you don't.

We are truly alone, in our own minds. Encapsulated within a fragile skull, viewing what we perceive as others just like us but in different physical positioning on the planet... Should I just give in? Is rationality, the verbal mind, truly the cause of my pain? Should I let go, let my emotions and chemicals re-trick me, push me towards an illusion that allows me to feel a sense of belonging?

I don't want to be human anymore. I'm sick of this feeling.
I hate this wandering fear, the constant barrage of apathy, instant gratification, despise of myself and others... I feel out of place as a human being. The sad part is, a therapist would most likely tell me even THIS feeling is a product of my chemical imbalances, the result of my place in society and my relationships. I can never gain complete control when I am Trapped, SUFFOCATED, WITHIN this physical plane.

And i'm sick of lying on this site. A fucking internet forum, i've sunk this low to feed off my primal desires for human interaction.
I know very well that people look down upon those younger that them, seeing them as less informed, immature, that their opinions can never truly be taken seriously due to their age. But I want it off my chest.
I'm 16, a virgin, live with my father, sort of dropped out due to depression last year, I wear glasses, I have a strong distaste for most teenagers, especially when they act like teenagers. I hate the way they force themselves into groups or titles or fads due to social placement, how they succumb so deeply into their primal needs. I have one friend. And the friendship is based on music appreciation and drug use. That's it. Even that relationship is dying. I find anger and dullness to be the biggest personality turnoffs on this site, while I feel a desire to be noticed and liked by Birdgirl, or ItsAPlant, or anyone who's shown intelligence and a sense of humor about life.


Does anyone here think they understand?
Any advice? Opinion? Shut the fuck up you whiny teenager, so many african children are starving right now and all you can do is complain about your life?

My social awareness tells me to feel self-centered, selfish, pathetic, but I can't remove myself from my true being like so many "tough" men pretend to do.
the beauty of this world only manages to distract me for so long... I need something permanent.

---

My only advice for you is to put things into perspective for yourself. You have all you'll ever need. Now, I'm not sure I completely understand you in regards of our chemical similarities, but I'm guessing you feel a void. You feel incomplete in some major or minor way. When the truth is simply that you're already complete. You were born complete.

The beauty is not what distracts you. It's your mind. You're blinded to the beauty of this world, because in a beautiful world everything is accepted and you can live in content. We all share a universal mind. Thoughts you may think might very well not even be your own, so on and so forth. There's ample connectivity. We're all bounded on the interstellar plane of thought and for that, we're all the same.

"An Intuitive Mind Is A Precious Gift And A Rational Mind A Bound Servant, We Have Created A Society That Glorifies The Servant And Denies The Gift" ~ A. Einstien.

i'm not sure if thats the exact quote but it's something along those lines... think about it anyway ;)

Inferius, I felt sad when I read your post. Sad that you're feeling down on yourself. I hope it's just a phase you're going through.

You know what? I just turned 45 and don't know a thing about life myself or where I really fit into it. I know I'm connected to my family and that I have a place in my community and in school. But is that all there is? I often ponder that question. I wasn't sure of anything when I was your age, and I'm still not sure today. Formally religious people, I'm sure, would tell me these questions signal a deep spiritual emptiness, but I generally find those types of people completely full of it.

It's a Plant, who is a wise and wonderful soul, had some really good suggestions for you. Definitely step outside the bounds of high school and meet some real people to connect with. High school is so superficial. It's understandable that you don't feel connected with anyone there. Two great ways to reach beyond that environment are through working or volunteering. Online friends are great, too, because there's something very freeing about the anonymity, but I think the deepest emotional connection comes from real in-person interaction. And when you reveal enough of yourself to others--and by this I mean real emotional revelation, deep sharing of feelings--you really do connect and feel less alone. This takes lots of practice, and the vulnerability required to do it is not easy.

I think it's admirable that you "revealed" your true self to us. That took courage. And I don't know if you've noticed or not, but your responses seem to indicate that you're highly regarded and cared about here, no matter who you are. I have never failed to enjoy reading your posts and seeing your insights, which are quite beyond the scope of your chronological years. I think the world of you and want you to feel the same way about yourself.

Take care, my friend. Much love and light to you.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Inferius, I felt sad when I read your post. Sad that you're feeling down on yourself. I hope it's just a phase you're going through.

You know what? I just turned 45 and don't know a thing about life myself or where I really fit into it. I know I'm connected to my family and that I have a place in my community and in school. But is that all there is? I often ponder that question. I wasn't sure of anything when I was your age, and I'm still not sure today. Formally religious people, I'm sure, would tell me these questions signal a deep spiritual emptiness, but I generally find those types of people completely full of it.

It's a Plant, who is a wise and wonderful soul, had some really good suggestions for you. Definitely step outside the bounds of high school and meet some real people to connect with. High school is so superficial. It's understandable that you don't feel connected with anyone there. Two great ways to reach beyond that environment are through working or volunteering. Online friends are great, too, because there's something very freeing about the anonymity, but I think the deepest emotional connection comes from real in-person interaction. And when you reveal enough of yourself to others--and by this I mean real emotional revelation, deep sharing of feelings--you really do connect and feel less alone. This takes lots of practice, and the vulnerability required to do it is not easy.

I think it's admirable that you "revealed" your true self to us. That took courage. And I don't know if you've noticed or not, but your responses seem to indicate that you're highly regarded and cared about here, no matter who you are. I have never failed to enjoy reading your posts and seeing your insights, which are quite beyond the scope of your chronological years. I think the world of you and want you to feel the same way about yourself.

Take care, my friend. Much love and light to you.

---

I believe what he's frustrated with is the superficiality he perceives. Not only in others, but in himself as well. Casting rudimentary judments can be quite agitating when you're trying to accurately define someone by their behavior, especially to a pensive person like Inferius.

Inferius, if your aim is to learn people don't give up. We're all snow, yet we're all very unique individual snowflakes. You never know, you might be able to pin point a person's motives, desires, etc. a lot easier if you restrained your thought on the matter a little bit. You'll be amazed at how much more attentive you are when you silence the distractive voice inside. You're very intelligent from what I read, but you're also trying too hard. Let it be. We can search so long for something we want and once we relax we find that what we're looking for was right in our face.

So how you been doin' Gizmo? I found this an interesting read and I guess didn't want to see it go down quite so soon.

You feelin' any better since this post? I see you're breezy, but just HOW breezy are you? =)

Take care. ~

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Originally Posted by Inferius

I need something permanent.

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The only permanent thing in this existence is impermanence. Learn the impermanent and illusionary nature of this universe, and you'll find peace with it. If you want to end the suffering of your own existence, it's as simple as learning to stop clinging to what you find within it. Maybe try some meditative techniques, learn to let go of your world and your sense of self, and be a temporary, constantly changing in form, conscious realm. And remember that most people's biggest obstacle to understanding this in meditation is the desire to cling to the higher state, rather than just observing it without concept, without it relating back to your self.

you just need to give yourself a reason to live. Actively. Get a hobby like playing music, or martial arts, or some sport, or find something interesting to study that the pursuit of which will drive you on.

I'll agree with Devious that impermanence is here to stay (or maybe not), but its all so superficial. Beneath the masks we all wear this world is inhabited with countless people who are more like you than you might suspect. Maybe they just don't have the courage to take off the masks yet.

I'll also agree with Itsaplant that you're one of the most insightful posters on the board and I look forward to reading what you bring to each thread. I think you've got a sharp and analytic mind and that can make it hard when you try to make sense out of the world, because much of the world is clearly nonsensical.

everything you've brought up is a physical process. But maybe physical processes aren't all there are. I'm not willing to give up on communication just yet. I think just about everyone here is pulling for you and saying the same thing if you just read between the lines.

best.

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

impermanence is here to stay (or maybe not).

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lol, that brought a smirk to my face Polymerize.

Regarding the original post.... Just keep this in mind: your very right, your existence, world, and perceptions are your own. So learn how to manipulate your own world to form it into one that's enjoyable.

The world is your oyster... or cammel, or disneyland, whatever you want to make of it.

Bye-Bye.

im going to give this to you in a haiku

Too long didnt read
You must be tripping right now
Give me some of that

i cant add much but when i was a teenager i was a wreck. i hated everything, hated everyone, family turned thier backs on me, but you do get through it all in the end.

you will never understand life as no one ever will you have to find that right place for yourself where you are most comfortable, i am 27yrs old and every one of my high school friends has left me behind with no one around its sad but i accept it for what it is. Although i have been ditched by everyone i am the only one out of my friends that has a good job, a great family of my own, and most of all the best girlfriend someone could ask for what more do i need......herb :)

Well Inferius, I feel what you are saying.
And that is exactly the thing... I feel it.

You made me feel something by making me think about it. Sure it probably is different from you, but you made me feel it. That's what communication is all about, trying to achieve states, and make others feel those same states, and relate. Surely we all have different ideas, etc, but in the overall process of being a human being, we all feel the same feelings. We all have the same kind of bio-machine in our heads, and we can certainly relate to one another by describing those states to each other.

I know what you mean by psychedelics, my brain is fried, thus rendering my feelings and emotions rather different than some others. That was MY choice though, and I still accept it to this day. You can't look down at what plant teachers have thought you, because it will make you look down on everything in life. Use what you've learned wisely, and remember that you are human, too, just like everyone else.

We're all the same.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>But we all die alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>We never truly understand one another. >>>>>>>>>>>>We are always, forever, alone.

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And that, is absolutely foolish. You do not know how we die, therefore do not revolve everything in your life based on this saying..it's ridiculously negative, and will bring you nowhere positive.

Hey dude,

I've never 'spoken' to you before, but I liked your post; I know you're probably not feeling too great, but I admire the way you can still be that honest.

I can sort of understand what you're feeling. There's been times when i've had the same ideas about myself and people and life.

We're just objects that move about and make noises, anything more than that is just our imagination. We all know it, but we cover it with things that distract us and help us pretend that we don't know it. It's those things that confuse us and we're hardly even aware that it's happening or that it's already happened. But if you try and remember that when your thoughts go too deep it might help you relax a little.

I had loads of stuff to say but i've kinda smoked alot, and every thought is followed by another thought so quickly that it's hard to get them into a line, at least one that makes sense. I'm not going to wish you luck or anything dude, but I just hope that one day those things fade out a little and you can go back to enjoying the objects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Its a Plant

So how you been doin' Gizmo? I found this an interesting read and I guess didn't want to see it go down quite so soon.

You feelin' any better since this post? I see you're breezy, but just HOW breezy are you? =)

Take care. ~

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Life is so god Damn confusing planty.

It's 4:30 a.m. and I can't sleep. I usually take this as a sign I need to get up and write something.

I am feeling better though. So much of what all of you said feels correct, even if I struggle to accept it.

>>>>My father uses a metaphor for the common human journey.
He says we are all going up a spiraling staircase, occasionally looking over the railing at where we used to be.
My problem seems to be the nagging desire to try and see through the bottom of the stairs above me.
Which is where you come in. You chuckle to yourselves before leaning over the railing and hollering support and a little insight from your perspective.
Thank you all for doing this.

Heh. Someone made a thread about me. They write as though I am on the verge of suicide. Do I come across as Suicidal? I don't think so. When I first saw it, my mind immediately tried to understand their motives for bringing such attention to me, and to themselves (as well as recoiling in horror).
I guess I am analytical.

>>>Although I can't be sure how "true" an emotional connection over the anonymity of the internet is, I suppose I can just tell my insecurities to shut up, filter out the bad, and take all the good in stride. This would be the healthiest approach, no?

>>>If I have your attention, I have a few more questions to ask.

Is it all worth it in the end? (not at the end of your life, just, after all the teenage/early-twenties)

What did you mean by "I know what you mean by psychedelics, my brain is fried, thus rendering my feelings and emotions rather different than some others" ? In a bad way??! (notice the panicky question mark exclamation combo)

Would meditation be a hobby someone could "actively" focus on? Giving them a reason to live? Etc Etc?

How did you choose your career??

What happens if I eat chicken after midnight?

Oh god the sun is coming up.
Bright light. Bright light!

Much Joy,
-Inferius

Wow, just wow... this reminds me so much of my current situation... hope it works out for ya man.

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Originally Posted by Inferius

Life is so god Damn confusing planty.

It's 4:30 a.m. and I can't sleep. I usually take this as a sign I need to get up and write something.

I am feeling better though. So much of what all of you said feels correct, even if I struggle to accept it.

>>>>My father uses a metaphor for the common human journey.
He says we are all going up a spiraling staircase, occasionally looking over the railing at where we used to be.
My problem seems to be the nagging desire to try and see through the bottom of the stairs above me.
Which is where you come in. You chuckle to yourselves before leaning over the railing and hollering support and a little insight from your perspective.
Thank you all for doing this.

Heh. Someone made a thread about me. They write as though I am on the verge of suicide. Do I come across as Suicidal? I don't think so. When I first saw it, my mind immediately tried to understand their motives for bringing such attention to me, and to themselves (as well as recoiling in horror).
I guess I am analytical.

>>>Although I can't be sure how "true" an emotional connection over the anonymity of the internet is, I suppose I can just tell my insecurities to shut up, filter out the bad, and take all the good in stride. This would be the healthiest approach, no?

>>>If I have your attention, I have a few more questions to ask.

Is it all worth it in the end? (not at the end of your life, just, after all the teenage/early-twenties)

What did you mean by "I know what you mean by psychedelics, my brain is fried, thus rendering my feelings and emotions rather different than some others" ? In a bad way??! (notice the panicky question mark exclamation combo)

Would meditation be a hobby someone could "actively" focus on? Giving them a reason to live? Etc Etc?

How did you choose your career??

What happens if I eat chicken after midnight?

Oh god the sun is coming up.
Bright light. Bright light!

Much Joy,
-Inferius

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No, not really in a bad way. We as human beings learn to adapt, and I surely am doing that. I just feel like...sometimes I "feel" more than others. I pick up on intuitive things a lot faster and stronger than my surroundings. I try to control it and not let it overwhelm me though, which is a challenge on its own.

Meditation is excellent. I truly recommend it.

I would elaborate on this, but work needs me. But hey it's friday!!

I won't let you down brother Inferius, I'll show you some cool stuff tonight.

Stay up friend.