veganism, vegetarism, consiousness

first i want to make clear that i do not think that you can say one way of life is better than the other, and thus i'm not trying to convince people of anything

But, when i think of expanding your consiousness, i think of being aware of you actions, and that actions have concequences.

Are there any vegetarians or vegans here?
it is allready proven that abstaining from meat and deary isn't unhealthy, even in a lot of cases more healthy. and if not necessary, then why would you cause all this pain and bloodshed to all these animals?

i was very surprised not finding any topics about this here.
the bible says: thy shall not kill.
the Mazatec indians abstained from meat, dairy, alcohol and tabacco 4 days before a shroomtrip. to clean themselves. doesn't this mean anything according to you?

the bible may say "Thy shall not kill", but if you remember correctly, God required animal sacrifices in the Old Testament.

Anyways, I'm not vegetarian, but I see your point about animal cruelty and expanding your consciousness.

I've been vegetarain for 2 years now.

Here's some food for thought (ha ha ha)....no heart attack has EVER been recorded in a person with a cholesteral less than 200. No vegan has EVER been recorded with a cholesteral HIGHER than 180. Basically, going vegan almost guarantees you won't die of a cholesteral related heart attack.

PS Those numbers may be wrong, but the concept is the same....the vegans highest cholesteral was less than the lowest recorded cholesteral above which people died of heart attacks.

Thousands of Animals die everyday In the harvesting of wheat and many more vegan products. Does the cruel suffering of wild rabbits getting run over by wheat harvesters stop you from eating bread?

Unless you grow all your own food on your own somehow, dont try to draw a line saying wheat is ok to eat but hamburgers are "unnecessary" .. I believe meat Is just as Important to our health/culture/economy as bread or wine.

thats just my point of veiw

peace

you know i read something about different blood types needing different diets. i'm type B and the suggested diet for type B is actually both meat and veggies. now ive went for months without eating meat, but ive also eaten plenty of mcdonalds in my life. but i dont believe that a complete vegetarian lifestyle is necessary, you even said that the mazatec indians abstained from meat only 4 days before a shroom trip, but they still ate meat when not tripping

I'm not a vegan, and if I had the choice, I'd rasie my own food so I knew where it was coming from. Sometimes buying from the shelf seems unsettling as I've worked in a meathouse and I know there is a small majority of people who handle it, uncorrectly.

My Grandma is a vegan though. She eats the tofu, and she is even making wine out of dandilions and eating the leaves in salad (I'm not kidding). Good for her, but not for me. She's all about organic living.

It's not for me though. I like my meat and if I stop, that still isn't going to stop the fact that 10,000 pigs and cows die in a single plant every day. Even if half the world stops, the prices will just go down, more available, and people will probably just get fatter. If anything, I'm helping the fat from becoming fatter. :D J/K

Good for you though.

im Vegan and have been for 2 years. I was Vegetarian for 2 years beforehand.

I'm an omnivore, which is how we were designed. Meat's good, veggies are good. And hey, plants breathe co2 and exhale oxygen, so all these vegans eating all those veggies are depriving everyone of that oxygen! On the other hand, animals breathe oxygen like we do, so every animal I eat means more oxygen for the rest of us animals!

Every time I take a mouth-wateringly tender bite of filet mignon, I'm just thinking of the good of all mankind. Really!

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

I'm an omnivore, which is how we were designed.

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You can have both sides of that debate go on for hours about how the other is wrong. The right answer, for you, is what you believe.

I've been a veggie for over ten years now. A couple of those years were spent vegan. When I was a kid, I ate meat as it was what the folks made and I didn't know any better. But even as a wee rascal, I couldn't eat meat on a bone as it really sickened me. I just view my current diet as a progression of what I've felt all along was correct for me.

I haven't a problem with people that hunt and eat what they kill but "convenience" meat eaters who get their meat from MickeyDs or cellophaned wrapped at their local grocery need to go shoot a cow, skin it, clean it and eventually eat it and then tell me how much they like and need meat.

I hope someday they can raise meat in vats (read a story about that recently), but until then, well, I was raised on a farm, and we killed and ate cows, pigs, chickens, deer, fish, rabbits, possums, squirrels, whatever was handy (but not rats, cats, dogs or raccoons).

How do vegetarians and vegans stand on bugs? That's a serious question. Is that considered meat?

And I wasn't dissing vegans or vegetarians, not at all; hope I didn't give that impression. I think it's great, that some people don't eat meat, if that's what they choose to do. But meat's been a part of my life for 40 years and some, and I enjoy the taste and texture of nicely-cooked meat. I do buy it packaged now. Not because I'm incapable of butchering my own meat anymore, or find it incredibly distasteful (as I'm sure some do), but mainly because I'm lazy and lack adequate facilities.

I like to think that I'm in touch with the primal beast that dwells within us all. ;)

Since ya want to mention the bible i will too, I'm sweating my ass off though so not going to spend the time looking for passages to quote..nm found em.. First let me say I was a vegetarian for 10 years.. Ok, so anyways,

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God caused to spring up from the soil every kind of tree, enticing to look at and good to eat, with the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of the garden.

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Then God said, â??Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.â?�

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So basically if you actually read through the bible there are passages supporting the idea that god gave man fruit bearing plants and beats to hold dominion over, but as with anything, words can be contorted to have any meaning the reader wishes to have. As far as thou shall not kill, that speaks of human life. ok back to an air conditioned room..

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Originally Posted by synaesthesia

I haven't a problem with people that hunt and eat what they kill but "convenience" meat eaters who get their meat from MickeyDs or cellophaned wrapped at their local grocery need to go shoot a cow, skin it, clean it and eventually eat it and then tell me how much they like and need meat.

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I've done it before and it's just easier for me to go to publix :D
I've determined I like meat of any flavor. You can eat what you want I don't mind, I've had several meals of veggies only (cornbread, beans, fried squash and mashed 'taters), but I've got to have a nice cut of meat from time to time. Fish, beef, pork, chicken, it's all yummy in my tummy :dance:

I can understand someone who choses that lifestyle for health reasons, but what I don't understand is the people that have that lifestyle because of animal "rights." I can understand if you personally don't want to harm another living creature for the purpose of your own conscience, but claiming that animals have a right to life doesn't make since. Killing is a natural act that animals(like man) do every day. Suffering and death are not only parts of life, but essential elements to the balance of the universe. I do have the choice not to do it, but the universe will balance itself out anyway. An example of this is the mule deer situation. There are more of them now than there were in the 1950s, but much less habitat. If people didn't kill them, they would eat all the food in the forest and their numbers would balance through starvation. The universe works this way. To be truly whole people we must embrace the not so shiny side of the good/evil coin.

I don't think biblical argument is the best way to make a case for vegetarianism. If you actually read the Bible, you'll quickly realize that Yahweh is no advocate of vegetarianism. The biblical dietary laws (still practiced by Jews today and called kashrut) proscribe that meat for eating should be killed in a specific way. Yahweh has a list of clean animals which are fit for eating (cows, chickens, lambs, grasshoppers...) and unclean animals which should never be eaten (pigs, shellfish, mice, lizards...), and I don't think any Biblical scholar would claim that the "thou shalt not kill" commandment overrides those dietary rules.

I myself am a vegetarian, and have been for many years. I don't see it as a moral or ethical thing though. I think anybody should be able to choose whatever kind of diet they want, and it's really none of my business what you put in your mouth as long as it isn't my food. Personally my vegetarianism is more of an aesthetic concern; I just don't like the taste or texture of meat, or the thought of putting corpses in my mouth.

Well, so far as I'm concerned, they're at least cooked corpses. It's *after* I die that I'll start eating raw meat. Brains preferably. Unless I get distracted by fireworks.

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Originally Posted by jamstigator

Well, so far as I'm concerned, they're at least cooked corpses. It's *after* I die that I'll start eating raw meat. Brains preferably. Unless I get distracted by fireworks.

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They're not even corpses for very long. A corpse, in my eyes, is a full bodied animal/human that has all entrails intact, and is decomposing. Those animals are killed and sliced up within the hour. :thumbsup: