Printable View
I thought this forum would be a good place to get some answers.A friend of mine has been into meditation for awhile now,the other day we were smokin weed and he starts tellin me that he can ASTRO TRAVEL!. He told me he can actually leave his body and travel any where in the world . The things he told me sounded really cool but i dont know what to believe! Can my mate really do as he claims or is he a bit full of it?:confused:
After you do enough drugs you realize anything is possible
Astral projection is a load of bullshit as far as I am concerned.
But I suppose anything is possible...
Unfortunately I am not omniscient so I have no way of making any statement with complete conviction. Not even this one. :smokin:
People will believe anything if they want to...
And if you believe in something enough it makes it true in your mind, which is about the only truth most people have.
So, your friend probably is able to do all of that traveling within his own frame of reference. :smokin:
Think about this: Your world, your reality, is all in your mind. Your reality is perceived through your eyes, your senses, your perception. It does not matter what anyone else beleives, merely what YOU beleive. If you beleive you can fly, you can. It's just like the matrix.
The trick is acheiving the control. Bending your own reality. From meditation and hypnosis to drugs and deep thought, the tools are there. Don't try. Beleive. Don't TRY to beleive. See, beleif is so deep inside your mind, it's almost impossible to change in a normal sober setting. Try acid. It sort of allows you to jump over the little walls of beleif, or denial. Or remember that movie Office Space? He was put into deep hypnosis, and right at the moment of total relaxation, his hypnotiser keels over and dies. This changes his entire outlook on life. They say meditation alone, when done properly and enough over a lengthy period of time, may eventually lead to constant bliss. Think about it, if someone can be depressed, and the person next to them can think life is dandy, can't you have someone who always feels high? It's only relative.
People do acid or shrooms and awaken the next day with a profoundly altered perception. This perception was IMPOSSIBLE to conceive before the expirience. The same goes for taking drugs, when you heard about pot when you were little, did you really understand the word stoned? Did you really KNOW what the high felt like? NO. You had NO IDEA.
:smokin:
When I was a child through some source I grabbed on to the notion of 'astral projection'. I read every book I could find on it and practiced for hours. I was completely obsessed with learning how to do it. --the ultimate escape. I had a few odd experiences but my conclusions are that it really doesn't exist. If you think about it a little bit; if someone could astral project they would be the most powerful person on the face of the earth. You could be the ultimate gov. spy. You would have unlimited access to wealth. Unlimited access to private information. Unlimited access to Angelina Jolie's shower....lol
So if it was real someone would have perfected it. But no one, in a controled situation, can project to another room and do something as simple as read a message written on a piece of paper there. (Amazing Randi is waiting).
Someone could argue that you only have access to the 'spirit realm'. But I kinda figure that's just the dream realm. Seems we're thoroughly trapped inside our heads unfortunately.
Here, if you'd like to do some research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenn
http://www.tfd.com/astral+projection
Quote:
Astral projection (or astral travel) is a controversial interpretation of out-of-body experiences achieved either consciously or via lucid dreaming, deep meditation, or use of disassociatives and psychedelics, like DXM, LSD, Psilocybin or 5-MeO-DMT. Proponents of astral projection maintain that their consciousness or soul has transferred into an astral body (or "double"), which moves free of the physical body in a parallel world known as the astral plane.
other opinions here:
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=70431
me:
sage_wisdom(at)hush.com
peace.
Astral Projection.. Ummm, Yeah. I've heard of that. I met a woman who channels energy to people to revitalise them. I told her of a few strange things that have happened to me that words have no meaning for. I left her presence thinking it was normal and she told me about a few things which happens to her and what they meant to her.
I tried to Astral Project once or twice after meeting her. I wanted to visit the thought plane and see if i could manipulate the sea-of-knowledge. I am not sure if i was asleep but i was fully consious of what I could see. I tried hard to focus but fear got the better of me. After what seemed like 2 or 3 hrs of trying to reach the perfect state, I re entered reality to find only 15 minutes had past and I felt as though I was standing on a mountain top inhaling the purest air which was energising my chakras with every breath.
Reaching the perfect state is not easy without practice, but it leaves a lasting impression once you think you have obtained it.
The consciousness through which three-dimensional terrestrial earth human being exists of is not created solely through a corporeal body.
It's ignornant and considered wishful thinking by those more endowed, that it would be that simple.
People have been astral traveling, using telepathy, psychokinesis, and all other "higher faculties" of the mind, which are suppressed and ignored through solo-western thinking.
It's fairly easy to do so, as it's the nature of human-kind to act a like a human, which is a multi-dimensional being, and not only existing of one corporeal three-dimensional physical body.
If you deny the claims, then you are speaking for the person and thus what you would call in blind faith that you know their experience, while the person themselves is speaking from their grounded and personalized experience of reality. If you haven't experienced that or any form of that reality yet, it's because you simply don't want to. Period!
Thank u to all who posted a reply, i did some reserch and have just come to the conclusion that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!..but ill stick to my car to get around!!
Ehh...
Take a look at this...
http://www.thegreatillusion.com/index.shtml
I can't believe that people buy into this.
It's all right in front of us. Life is not as complicated as most people would like to believe. :smokin:
Talking about astral projection, praying to God, levels of enlightenment is all nonsense.
Fundamentally, you are all talking about the same thing. You're insecurity towards that which you know nothing of and couldn't possibly begin to know anything about until you realize that.
Go stare at a flower. Watch some children play a game. See the old women struggling up the stairs to her seventh floor apartment. Watch the cash register open at McDonalds.
Are there any connections? Is there a higher consciousness? Yes, I believe there is, but it is found through the absence of beliefs. Just live. And realize that in every moment that is the point. That is all there is.
:smokin:
I want to correct a sentence I made in the post before. :smokin:
I meant to say:
Quote:
Fundamentally, you are all talking about the same thing; namely, your collective insecurity towards that which you know nothing of and couldn't possibly begin to know anything about until you realize that all such systems of belief are merely structures with no foundation.
Quote:
Fundamentally, you are all talking about the same thing; namely, your collective insecurity towards that which you know nothing of and couldn't possibly begin to know anything about until you realize that all such systems of belief are merely structures with no foundation.
The problem with this, is that it's hypocritical. It's the constant paradox of knoledge. You don't know anything until you realize you know nothing. What you're saying can be taken just the same way. Sure, you can say it's all a load of crap, but it makes life more interesting to apply labels and ideas in structure of expirementation. It allows you to sort out your expirience into more omni-understanding ways. To communicate. To go after a certain idea than just looking at it as a whole.
There are infinite ways to expirience the common reality. Simplicity is nice, it's pleasant, and occasionally thats just what you need. But then one day you' might find yourself researching different astral planes, or the phenomenon of webbed-human-consciousness.
Things can be as simple or complex as you want them to be...
i like this thread!
I think you are all giving the human mind more credit than it deserves.
We are just like the computers we love so much. We are programmed through the years to respond to certain stimuli in any of many specific manners.
I am not saying that "astral projection" is not real or "webbed-human consciousness" does not occur. What I am I trying to drive home is that any school of thought, as such, is born out of social constructs which have already been proven false through years of endless argument and conjecture.
I keep trying to think of a way to make an alternative point, but I keep getting frustrated, you didn't say enough to argue with.
Show some proof. Links and logic. :)
In order to clarify what I was talking about I need to link up a couple articles first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferius
http://www.krishnamurti.oddech.com/beginnings10.html
http://www.kfs.org/~jonathan/witt/tlph.html
:smokin:
Trying browsing through those links. It will help you to understand exactly what it is I am trying to say.
I guess the easiest way to explain the point I am trying to make is like this: When we argue we are arguing because we have a certain belief that is in direct conflict with another indidvidual's belief, right? Well, what are beliefs? Why are beliefs formed?
Beliefs are formed when we identify ourselves with something and we like to identify ourselves through certain beliefs because it gives us a sense that we are able to do something or know something and in turn makes us feel secure. This is what we are seeking when we identify ourselves with some type of belief set or structure. We are seeking security through identification.
It simply doesn't matter what is truth or what is false when we are speaking about beliefs that have been formed out of a desire for security. Almost all of our beliefs and actions come from this need for security and identification. All of the truths we speak of and argue about on a daily basis are completely subjective. The only real truth, whatever that means, can come from complete objectivity, which, in turn, must come from the absence of belief and the destruction of this need for security through identification.
Our minds function out of habit, habits which have been learned through various interactions and events which occur in our environment. Why does the mind function in such a habitual way? Is it not true that habitual behaviors offer some semblance of security? The mind feels more secure functioning in habit because our respective habits have been constructed from that which is known, and that which is known is comforting.
So, we think in patterns which have been developed into habits which have come from interaction with that which is known. Are we able to change our thought patterns? Are we able to think of that which is "unknown", whatever that means?
How do we break out of these habits which are born out of all that is known? Seems to me like everything which is known is of little use and that everyone's beliefs are at the very least flawed in some manner. So, this is why I believe that in order to acheive a new level of thought or consciousness, one must relieve themselves of all beliefs and habits associated with the known.
There needs to be a break in the continuity of the known in order to rise above it and see it for what it is at it's most fundamental level.
Let me end with a few quotes I find helpful when thinking about this subject:
And my personal favorite: :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, 6.52
Is that enough to argue with Inferius? :smokin: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, 6.54
You have just gained my respect. Not that it matters much over the internet, but still..
Becuase i'm a lazy son-of-a-bitch and you're prolly right, i'll keep it short. By fighting our own desires, by approaching our beleifs with complete objectivity, aren't we taking away what makes us truly human? A computer has no concept of faith or love. These things cannot be proven, and neither can the psychic's claim of seeing ghostly being flit around her house. But by approaching an idea with a complete lack of previous instinctual function or natural psychological structure, you're looking at it like a cold calculating machine. Does formulating thoughts in this manner really make them more acceptable than how nature originally trained us to?
Actually you're right. When I think back on anything i've ever really accepted as a higher path of thought, I have needed to rid myself of natural frailties.
However, throughout evolution we've gained intelligence. Small anomalies of genius and creativity have pushed certain concepts onto the laps of those lesser beings, and they've developed the same ideas into structures of thought. But in the same essence, everything YOU are saying can be taken into account the same way. Eventually, we'll reach even higher levels of understanding, and we'll look back upon complete objective reasoning the same way as we would upon our natural instinctive security-impressioned ideas.
For now, I admit, complete objectivity IS the only way to truly look at something. But eventually, as we gain more usage of our minds and understanding of our reality, we may very well find a completely unimaginable (at the moment) truer way of formulating our ideas.
Agree or disagree?
either way i love talking about this.. :)
Also, just by thinking with words or thoughts you're still using a structure of security. You identify yourself as human. Sadly, we cannot overcome this, we're constricted to using human brain matter and only ten percent of this matter. To not think this way is unimaginable, at least without the aide of something, what that something is I don't know.
...Isn't it great to use your mind? I see so many humans just letting it rot, and I find it really hard not to feel superior...
May I also say that you just gained my respect too, not that it matters much over the internet, but............:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Inferius
I don't have much time to respond right now, but I would like to continue this discussion soon. I also love to talk about stuff like this, but, as I am sure you know, most people do not. I also find it hard not to feel superior. :smokin:
It used to happen to me as a kid before I knew what drugs were.It might be why i started to experiment with drugs because it was so tripped out that drugs didnt scare me.I dont know if I was really out of my body or if I was dreaming of looking at myself.The reason I lean more towards OBE is because I felt myself rise up feet first then pop out of my head.It has only happened as an adult a handful of times.It dosnt feel like a dream,it feels absolutly real but the mind is powerful and im open to other expainations.
It's in a book,
You need to look.
:420thought:
Binz, mad props for the Wittgenstein. Seriously.
Having said that, there's no way you can think that the final proposition of the tractatus advances anything resembling a positive claim. Wittgenstein was reacting against the logical positivists who were trying to prove reality through the use of language. Wittgenstein demonstrated that our language is distinct from reality and only approaches it without ever really capturing it. But the man was quite a mystic actually.
Your notion that truth requires objectivity is completely unfounded and runs counter to the entire continental tradition. If you want to make that claim, make it, but give me a reason to follow you.
I'd push for a more post-stuctualist understanding myself that would see all the previous remnants as pointing in a parallax manner towards some unknowable, though not unapproachable, focus.
Meaning from the meaninglessness? More like how "A picture cannot, however, depict its form of representation; it can only show it."
from what i know/heard/read most ppl that can astral project are of pure/near pure hearts and/or minds, governments/government agencies etc. are the EXACT opposite, and no not jus any government, all governments in generalQuote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
I know exactly what your talking about and to this day remember these experiences when I was very young. It kinda feels like an OBE but you still feel intact, kind of like your mind has gone up one notch. Its so bizarre, what are your explanations for this? And if anyone else knows anything about this chime inQuote:
Originally Posted by Renical
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id12/pg1/
Well worth a puff and browse
heres what i think
if you can see, taste, touch, feel, smell or hear something, its real.
if you can put it on a table for everyone to see, its real.
if you have no way of doing this, its not.
of course, this could be argued with by asking "what about uranium? most people cant afford to get any, they couldnt set it on a table. does that make it not real?"
and i will prerespond to tis by saying, stfu.
you cannot put the emotion "happiness" on a table, but you CAN put the chemical in the brain that causes this on a table.
you cannot do this with god, only the bible, but......thats all bullshit, too many contradictions, been changed so many times, no supporting outside evidence for its truth, nothing. the only thing it has is...its true because it says it is.
Of course I've never attempted so I can't really say, I have done a lot of yoga and I understand meditation, disconnect from your thoughts, etc.
...and astral projection has always seemed like B.S. to me. How I spot bullshit:
1. It's never been historically/scientifically documented from an objective source. (If it has no possibility of every being documented objectively no matter what, it seems even less plausible)
2. It's a concept that humans wish they could have. (Super powers, eternal life, etc.)
I guess anythings possible...but if the brain does somehow develop super x-men powers when more if it is used, I hope we get telekinesis!!!
People often ask if I believe in god. I used to dilly dally in answers till I realised. It does NOT matter whether I do or not. By the time I find out it will be too late to change any decisions made that would've depended on my belief or disbelief.
Instead, I choose to live a life that mostly is good, not coz i'm afraid of a supreme being, but just coz I think that the very basic laws of existence, eg, every action has an equal and opposing reaction, apply to everything. If I slap someone today, I will be slapped back, before I take my last breath.
So, applying this to astral projection, I'd say that I give the benefit of the doubt to people who say they have done it.
I was doing a really really long drive in Australia and a conversation got going between me and Dave, someone I had just hitched this ride with. He said he could astrally project and his mum could also do the same.
He gave me an example of how he had used it. There was a child in a nearby house that was having trouble with a ghost that would bother the child in the night. The child had told his parents that someone was talking to him in the night. They didn't believe him, but as general conversation, mentioned it to Dave's mum who told Dave.
Without discussing with the family, Dave astrally travelled to the house at night and says he met an old man in spirit form who was talking to the boy. He asked the spirit to stop as it was distressing the boy.
Apparently, from the next night the kid stopped having trouble sleeping and never mentioned the old man again.
Draw your own conclusions, but for me that is a sweet story! IF astral travel exists than that was a cool use of it. SO, I refuse to write it off, simply because SCIENCE can't prove it.
binzhoubum... do you believe that your belief on the concept of beliefs is flawed the same as everyone else's beliefs???
It doesn't matter if you really "believe" in God. What matters is how best you "emulate" God, through love and compassion and wisdom.
personally i believe in the reality of astral projections, out of body experiences, and this kind of things.
anyway... nice discussions here... i wish i would comment on every post, but im too lazy (still the effects of yesterday's green dragon).
what we call 'reality', is only a perceptual consense. for example:
if i say im seeing a little gnome here at my side, (no im not on shrooms ;)) but nobody else sees it, then the gnome is said to be unreal.
but if everybody sees the gnome, like me, then the gnome is said to be real.
think about this: the fact everybody sees the gnome is absolutely *no proof* it really exists... somewhat like matrix huh?
during the process of learning and socialization, a children *learns* to percieve only the things which are into the perceptual scheme of the society it lives. a children can be born with a lot of another possibilities of perception, but if this kinds of perception were not shared by the another members of the society this children lives, then it will *learn* to disregard this perception as 'unreal', fantasy, until it have no more of this perceptions, and be a 'normal' (which means equal to everybody) citizen of that society.
it means there is lots and lots of perceptions of the world we could do, but we limit ourselves to the small bit of perceptions needed to our daily life.
so, most people are chained to the small possibilities of their society-conditioned perception. and they think its all that exist... and are proud of saying it... its why the psychedelic experiences can be so bizarre and alien... cause it brings to us an inimaginable kind of perception of the world.
there is more things which can be said on this subject... but now im not very concentrated to write (and translate on the run to english)... so, think about this...
If possible, with the help of our enlighter Mary Jane! :jointsmile:
i believe i have done this under the influence of a drug other than weed. I was tripping out and i inhibited my friend's mind while my eyes were closed. He was on the same drug and he was trippin but i did whatever he did. I dunno if this is the same thing as astral projection, but if it was then i have projected myself. Dont knock it before you try it tho