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Ok I don't know if I'm onto something or if I need to quite the weed or what but this is what I came up with... If you can prove their is true pure happiness on earth then it proves heaven wrong...the bible states that heaven is perfect and that has happines that can't be reached on earth...so if anyone was to have a moment of pure happiness on earth then that would prove that their is pure happiness outside of heaven thus making a flaw in the bible...proving christianity wrong...wtf?
I'm no fan of christianity... but what constitutes "happiness" in your opionion?
Actually, you are wrong. Jesus tells us "The Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN YOU!" Contemplate that. We are to store up our treasures not on earth but in Heaven and where our treasure is there our heart is also. So if we store our treasures in Heaven and our heart resides there that is to say the Kingdom of Heaven is within us, we go there where the Most High God lives and reigns and Jesus sits at the right hand of God. We seek that Spiritual center. The more you know this, the more you know God, in THIS life, HERE on Earth. That is why we pray we are to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothpick
Jesus also said that diseases were caused by demons that needed to be exorcised. Take his words with a grain of salt.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the...sus/index.html
I am truly, purely happy looking at your avatar with a picture of a dog that looks like a mop. I have achieved earthly bliss. So I guess, according to your theory, that this means Christianity is wrong.
All I know is I love that mop dog. . . .
bible is not the original bible that was sent. Saints wrote it again with their own additions and with the rules that give them advantages
. Christianity is supposed to be a one and only God religion but it is not since Jesus Christ is accepted as God's son not as a messenger. If we accept Jesus as God's son then we make him a god too, so there are two gods in Christianity???
from my observations Christians evaluate Jesus more than God. Jesus comes first in your religion which is wrong cause God has to come first cause Jesus was just a messenger and a human with bones and flesh...
The word "faith" should tell you all you need to know ;)
Lol you must be stoned
Dont know what kind of theory this is but it sounds like someones baked!
Actually, there are three gods in Christianity—Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. But Christians say that although they are different, they are actually the same. Religion makes doublethink fun! Three equals one! Same equals different! Don't do that, John, Big Broth--I mean, God is watching everything you do!Quote:
Originally Posted by paparose
The stimulation of brain cells in areas that are often dormant is so magnificent; love bud man!!.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothpick
You must really answer graymatter so we can get better dynamics of your opinion. Modern Christianity can be disproved to a great degree if one digs deep. But in digging one will find that Judaism, Islam and Hinduism share similar traits that disprove them also. The topic of validity within religion is not confined to any one member.
I can adopt that view also. I wouldn't say you (toothpick) are wrong tho, cuz everything Hempstone said is an occurance on Earth in a Being of the Earth. You didn't exactly say that people exist and are experiencing Heaven on Earth to disprove the Bible, it was merely a theory that the bible could potentially be disproved if one really found Heaven on Earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hempstone
Few people comprehends the Kingdom of Heaven being within them, therefore I raise the query 'who is going to reach that state of happiness/heavenliness without concious knowledge that it even exists or where to locate it?' That is probly why you reckon the bible says Heaven CANNOT be reached on Earth. The bible is just a weapon. If you believe Heaven CANNONT be reached when it can be reached then you are imprisoned by use of mis-information. [i got sooooo much to say as usual, but i will keep it short]
Hempstone confuses things by saying Heaven is within you and that we are to store up Treasures not on Earth but in Heaven. Well I exist on Earth at the moment, so my Treasures are OF the Earth but taken and placed in Heaven; my Heaven within.
If your treasures are only gold or platinum plated or flawed then that is your Heaven. Fake! So our Heaven must be filled with totally genuine fulfillments that we work had to achieve, else we provide for ourselve sour Treasures.
Too Tru Oneironaut!!
Does that make sense?
Why is it religions have a go-between?
People have to go through the ministers, priests, angels, christ, muhammed, churches etc before god can be reached because traditionally this was an effective means to control the population in the name of god. This also empowered such figures with the desire to be looked at as miniature gods to be worshipped. This is a simple method of disempowering others by invoking a dependency on the priesthood.
Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God? Your god is determined by them Treasures I guess.
I therefore wouldn't listen to a go-between if they are telling me god says I should do 'this and that' because their god within tells them stuff that probly isn't applicable to me; especially if god is fkin everywhere but i have to go mosque or church to make contact. But for the benefit of one mans conquest this mode of the individuals psyche being dependent on authoritive figures this works perfect.
Well Jesus was a myth, that has been proofed, at least, to me the evidence is sufficient for that. Ever read the Jesus mysteries? Interesting to read that some guy ressurected El Azarus from the dead 2000 years BEFORE Jesus saved Lazarus from the dead. And this is just one example, the entire story of Christ is stolen from other religions. The 'Jesus' story happened at least 15 times prior to him. Including the northern star, the three wise man, being killed, ressurrected after three days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothpick
How much proof do you need?
If you really want a trip, go find 'The Sacred mushroom and the cross' from John Allegro, this books argues that Jesus was a mushroom. And the evidence presented, is really thought out although you can only really follow that story, if you have the same education and experience as the author ;)
Hi, Birdgirl....good to see you.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartCore
Dude your way off. There is duplication. On the most part of the book of Job, which happens to be the oldest book. and Is found in other cultures. Islam copied and twisted much of our Bible and inserted their our preferences, especially as it relates to Isaac and Ishmael, however, the prophets were recorded millenia before Islam was even around.
A myth?.....your offensive!!
Why the FUCK would anyone in their right mind want to go and prove christianity wrong?? It looks as if you people are either extremely cruel or are extremely bored, either way just fuck off.
Why would you want to rip someones faith right out from underneath them?? Christianity is about becoming closer to God and your fellow man, although it has been twisted and raped to where you can barely recognize it anymore. You wonder why the world is so fucked up..... People are making an effort to disprove someone elses beliefs..... It doesnt say anywhere you have to believe it, its a choice, its free will, why destory that??
Christianity is a place of refuge for those who choose to seek it(Sometimes this is the ONLY thing these people have, is refuge in Christ), who the FUCK are you to defy someone of this. I think its fucked up and you should just leave them be. That really makes me angry and I do not think that htis follows the rules of the spirituality forum. Your fucking with someones faith and sometimes thats all that people have these days, so if you read this and still dont care well then you can go fuck yourself you heartless POS
Why the FUCK do you need to use the word fuck so fuckin' much? :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
I apologize if the word fuck offends anyone but this really offended me and I am not even grounded in any specific religion
I guess I just dont get why you would want to do that. What drives you to disprove someone elses beliefs and way of life? The Bible is not meant to be taken so literal, take what you can from it and leave the rest. Its a guide to show you how to live a better life with your fellow man which in return you are living closer to God. You know whats happened in the past (crusades) is behind us, leave it there, this is now.
I just do not get why you would go out of your way to do that to someone....
I find it cruel and unusual, I would hope most of you would believe that if your doing something that isnt harming someone it shouldnt be considered wrong. Like your use of marijuana??? Yeah exactly, leave peoples faiths alone please....
Then voice your opinion in this thread so we can help make this a more productive spirituality forum....
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=75174
Why disprove someone's "faith" if it is mistaken? Well, why bother to disprove their mistaken ideas about politics? Or philosophy? Or history? Or science? Or anything? Why attempt to analyze other people's ideas at all? Why don't we all just stick our fingers in our ears and shout LA LA LA LA LA LA LA every time somebody else voices their opinion about things so we won't try to critically scrutinize their opinions, and then everybody can get along! Why don't people realize that the solution to all arguments is to admit that both sides are equally valid as long as nobody discusses anybody else's opinions? Duh! :rolleyes: Who needs fruitful debate to figure out the truth anyways? Being outraged at every attempt to criticize your dogma just because they're criticizing your dogma is so much better.
I do not see how you can relate something as profound as religion to things like politics/philosophy/history/science.
Someones faith in religion is a whole different story all together. I can already tell you dont take anything about religion seriously so I doubt anything I can say will make much difference to you so I will make this short and sweet.....
Clearly it states to have respect in here, and I do not find that to be respectful, its plain and simple.....
You are an extremely intelligent person Oneironaut but I think you might be alittle over-critical about religion. Could you explain as to why you MUST disprove someones faith in religion?? What drives that? What is it?!?
WG, I've come across a couple of your posts so far and I've got to say, you seem like a remarkably lucid individual. Welcome and keep up the great posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
Oneironaut is just our resident bitter skeptic who acts like he was raised catholic, became atheist, and now wants to share his pain with everyone.
We try to love him regardless...
;)
Thanks PolymirizeQuote:
Originally Posted by Polymirize
Im not worried about Oneironaut, but I do have to say he has been typing for awhile, I think we better brace for impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
LOL..thanks for the laugh..I am bracing..sure it will be a good one!
Religion, like all those other fields of thought, is an attempt to figure out the truth about how the universe works. And like any field of thought, if it wants to get anywhere it needs to have people debating each other so the correct ideas win out over the false ones. However, religious dogma doesn't work that way. For some reason that I can't figure out, people seem to think that religion is somehow special, that religious opinions should not be challenged no matter how silly they are, and that everybody should be entitled to voice their opinion about religion but never receive a critical response about what they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
I don't see the point in "respecting" faith. What's so great about faith? Faith is belief in that for which there is no evidence. It is, to me, plainly inferior to rationality and logic, and the scientific method of demanding evidence before you're convinced of something. I think it is silly how much our culture glorifies zealous fervor for ideas that haven't the slightest shred of objective evidence going for them.Quote:
Someones faith in religion is a whole different story all together. I can already tell you dont take anything about religion seriously so I doubt anything I can say will make much difference to you so I will make this short and sweet.....
Clearly it states to have respect in here, and I do not find that to be respectful, its plain and simple.....
I believe that every person should have the ability to do as they please so long as they do not infringe upon the life or liberty of another person, and that matters concerning human affairs should be decided upon democratically by the populace. Western monotheism directly contradicts those ideas (so does Hinduism to a large extent, but I'm much more lenient on Buddhism and Taoism, which are far less authoritarian).Quote:
You are an extremely intelligent person Oneironaut but I think you might be alittle over-critical about religion. Could you explain as to why you MUST disprove someones faith in religion?? What drives that? What is it?!?
The Bible, as I read it, is an extremely authoritarian book. Yahweh is, without a shadow of a doubt, the worst character in any book I have read. He is portrayed as a totalitarian dictator figure, who sets laws and demands that they be obeyed unquestioningly, just because he's the one who wrote the laws. His ego is so huge that he proclaims himself to be the greatest thing in the whole universe, and demands that everybody worship him as much as possible. He has a chosen race and orders them to pillage towns belonging to "inferior" peoples, then kill the men, expropriate their property, and take the virgins for themselves. Yahweh orders wives to submit unquestioningly to their husbands, and for people who work on the Sabbath to be stoned to death. He orders women who menstruate and men who ejaculate to burn animal sacrifices so that he can receive the "pleasant aroma". Yahweh condones slavery throughout the Bible, and even gives rules for how to properly sell slaves and how to mark your slaves. Even in the New Testament, slaves are told, "be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward" (1 Peter 2:18). It's a good thing people don't really follow that verse anymore, or we'd still have slavery and the Jews would still be toiling away in Nazi labor camps. Christians actually continue to publish this pro-slavery, sexist, homophobic, racist, illogical crap and encourage their children to read it before they're at an age when they can critically and logically think through all the arguments for and against Biblical accuracy and the historical issues involved with its origins. It's like handing a 6 year old a copy of Quotations From Chairman Mao Zedong and pressuring him to become a faithful Maoist, then rejecting out of hand any criticism of what you're doing to the child! Children should be taught about all ideologies, religious, political and otherwise, and should be able to choose for themselves what they want to believe in. I think indoctrinating children into an ideology like that, and encouraging them to believe or be burned forever, before they have a chance to rationally examine all the evidence and arguments, is a form of child abuse.
Not that any Christian actually follows all the ridiculous crap in the Bible, but the heavy authoritarianism is still very much present in Christianity. When you bow down to a "higher power" and his "higher justice", proclaiming all his moral guidelines to be absolutes that cannot be questioned, you are basically giving up the idea that humans should be able to decide how they should live their lives on their own. When you say the Lord is your shepherd, you are saying that you are a sheep.
I see no reason to be respectful of child abuse, dictator worship and blatant sexism, which I find to be rampant problems among those infected with the Christianity virus.
Where am I off? The story of Jesus happened at least 15 times in the 2000 years preceeding the man which really proofs, at least to me, its a myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by braddog10
Early christianity is basically a set of stolen pagan principles. In many instances, the entire story was shamelessly copied with only the name of the main actor changed to Jesus. This has nothing to do with the book of job at all. You would be right if the life of Jesus as presented in the new testament, would be in the book of Job, detailed. SInce it isnt there's not way these stories could have come from the book of job.
Please enlighen me and let me know where I am off ;)
You are more than off..you are wrong. Do you even know the history of the Bible? What about Malachi?
Religion -A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Religion is so much more personal than any of those other topics. I'm not going to get sucked into a debate about contradictions in the Bible, I never said I was grounded in any religion. What religion is to me is hope/faith whatever you want to call it, itā??s the same, that there is something infinitely good out there when we live in a world that promotes evil things. I try not to be so critical about it, I take what I can leave what I donā??t agree with; itā??s a win/win situation you know? When you boil it all down itā??s about how to be a better person to one another and God, whatā??s so wrong about that. You focus so much on what you donā??t like about the Bible that you totally toss aside the good.
To me itā??s like this, God is this almighty creator who creates beauty and life but destroys it, His son Jesus takes human form to live like a human. He seeā??s how we are and has sympathy, compassion, love and understand towards us so he gives his life so that we do not perish.
Itā??s about love, compassion, and understanding towards each other so we can better ourselves. To me that is all its about, itā??s about something good. We live in a time of evil, we see it everyday. Its hope in something better, not everyone has the ability to make an impact on the evil in the world so they have faith. Just as good if you ask me.
Excuse me while I roast a fat one in honor of Oneironaut. I really do respect you alot man, and I am glad that we have someone with such intelect in a cannabis community, it gives hope. :thumbsup:
You don't see the contradiction there? An infinitely good being that controls a "world that promotes evil things"?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
And I still maintain that faith is not a virtue. Skepticism is. Demanding evidence and not taking your beliefs on tradition, authority, wishful thinking or blind speculation is a much superior way of approaching the truth.
Why not?Quote:
I try not to be so critical about it,
Because God doesn't exist. Also, there is not one single shred of evidence that religious people act more morally than atheists. Most people who live by their own principles without religion are perfectly normal, morally upright individuals, and study after study finds they do not engage in obviously immoral behavior (murder, rape, arson, stealing, etc.) any more than religious people do.Quote:
I take what I can leave what I don’t agree with; it’s a win/win situation you know? When you boil it all down it’s about how to be a better person to one another and God, what’s so wrong about that.
I would say continuing to publish the Bible and the horrible abominations within, and distributing it to children, is potentially harmful to their morals, since if they do decide to take it literally and obey all of God's words to the prophets (as Jesus himself commands) they can be sucked into a very dangerous ideology.
You have the opposite problem: you focus entirely on the few pages of good stuff and toss aside the majority of the book!Quote:
You focus so much on what you don’t like about the Bible that you totally toss aside the good.
I'm sorry, I can't just shop around and pick out which verses I agree with and which ones are crap. It's an all or nothing thing. Either the Bible is reliable, or it isn't. I mean, I can sift through Mein Kampf and probably find a few good quotes too, but that doesn't mean the book isn't an authoritarian racist piece of crap. I have found relatively few real good morals in the Bible. Even the good parts are pretty much common sense. Don't kill people cause that's bad for society, okay, duh, everybody knows that. And stealing is bad too, uh huh, what's the big deep revelation here? If I can figure out for myself what is moral and what isn't, why do I need to sift through sexism, rules for keeping slaves, detailed instructions for animal sacrifice, and boring stories about ancient Jewish lineages to find a few common sense ideas by a guy who said he was God and told people he could exorcise demons that cause disease.
If you ask me, there have been way better philosophers. Voltaire, Rousseau, Thoreau, Emerson, Ingersoll, Russell, heck even Sartre is way more profound than Jesus and his "be nice or burn forever" philosophy.
Why? That's a horrible thing to do. If God fucked up the first time, why didn't he just fix things himself instead of fuckin killing everything and hoping it works better the next time?Quote:
To me it’s like this, God is this almighty creator who creates beauty and life but destroys it,
But he didn't bother to say anything about all that slavery, or the sexism, or anything. Or provide sufficient evidence for his existence. Why did God need to kill his son to change the rules of the universe anyways? That doesn't make any sense.Quote:
His son Jesus takes human form to live like a human. He see’s how we are and has sympathy, compassion, love and understand towards us so he gives his life so that we do not perish.
Umm...you do know that Jesus promoted the idea of hell, don't you? The idea that, if you commit a sin and don't ask for forgiveness, you will be tortured for all eternity? That's not very forgiving.Quote:
It’s about love, compassion, and understanding towards each other so we can better ourselves. To me that is all its about, it’s about something good. We live in a time of evil, we see it everyday. Its hope in something better, not everyone has the ability to make an impact on the evil in the world so they have faith. Just as good if you ask me.
And I have to disagree. Faith is not "just as good". If you feel powerless to make an impact on the evil in the world, then try harder! Don't cop out by adopting an escapist ideology that everything will be fine and you'll live forever, that this life is merely a place to wipe your feet on the way to the eternal afterlife (what is 7 or 8 decades compared to an eternity?). Go out and do something! Be creative. Two hands at work accomplish more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
(sparks bong)Quote:
Excuse me while I roast a fat one in honor of Oneironaut. I really do respect you alot man, and I am glad that we have someone with such intelect in a cannabis community, it gives hope. :thumbsup:
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
All christians I know take it very very personal when one tries to debate their religion. Often times the only answer I get is 'It works for me' and 'Its complex'. If christianity isn't open to debate then it is unworthy of me following in it. I don't particularly like to be dictated to. One might have a question, questions like the thread starter posed that require answers for some reason or other. Asking a question as to whether or not something the world believes is actually true should really be answered with evidence that sheds enlightenment. Shouting down a man using all kind of amunition to defend a subject when a theory is raised and not providing any real answer, doesn't propel someone to start believing. I'm more inclined to rephrase the question and when the answer is again not given I'd ask what one is hiding. No body ain't providing nothin in the way of evidence besides how they react; where their reaction can be linked to the psychology of the group (christian/muslim/hindu/etc). It is a big subject... don't shoot the messenger
Great post Oneironaut, I for one am happy that my parents let me choose.
I'm not even baptised.
Guess I'm in trouble then ;)
WordQuote:
Umm...you do know that Jesus promoted the idea of hell, don't you? The idea that, if you commit a sin and don't ask for forgiveness, you will be tortured for all eternity? That's not very forgiving.
Is this in the New Testament, Toothpick 1:1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothpick
Everyone has contradicted themselves, making everyone a hypocrite.
Oneironaut post #31 I agree with everything u say here 100%.. U should have went on to say other stuff, I probly would have agreed with it also because of the perspectives and levels relative to the source of ur overstanding of the subject.
Fucking oneironaut... took most of the juicy shit to say.
Anyway... I'll throw two pennies in.
The theologies of religious faith has proven to be the largest causer of all war on the planet. Not to mention the biggest catalyst for violent behavior and massacres throughout history.
The Middle east today is a perfect example of what I am talking about. We have people being killed by the hundreds daily, thousands weekly, all in the name of their version of God, and the way in which to live life according to him.
I know this is grossly overused, but it remains a valid point.
Is God powerful enough to destroy himself?
I personaly am agnostic because I don't have proof of a supernatural God, yet don't have evidence to disproove.
By the way... true Chritians do not agree that the point of faith is to help a happier life on Earth. They do not agree with "It doesn't matter whether it's wrong or right, if it makes you feel good."
There's a difference between a devout Christian and a devout Christian on Pot.
the trilogy
the first geometric shape consisting of straight lines (straight line - the male principle)
religion, science and philosophy are linear subjects.
using them equally u get an equalateral triangle which can be place nicely in a circle (circle - female principle).
circles are an unbroken line with its begining at its end and vice versa.
take the circle, a representation of spiritual illumination, and realise then that everything is linked.
turn ur 2 dimensional triangle featuring religion, philosophy and science at its walls and add depth and height (3 dimensions) [sphere]
religion and science and philosophy don't fit the tru equation, but hopefully u can see how mathematics over anything else rules but not as we think
pyramids weren't built because the shape is nice (may have square base but still have triangle feature)
paparose, the Spirit magnifies the Son, The Son magnifies the Father. The Father sent forth the Spirit. All three personalities, are one. Some may call Him schizophrenic, by our definition. But, He is the Head of us all, there can only be one. But there are three. None take glory for themselves, He is the only one that can safely receive it. Elohim is pluralQuote:
Originally Posted by paparose
Science, Uses words that only aid in the description of creation, to give us terms to help us comprehend and define some of the few things that are even known at this time. Later we will view this period as very simple. Remarkable.
Bummer, Too bad I saw this thread this late, Time on boards is short lately.
Wow, Some good stuff.
Heartcore, My offense is a play on words. If I was to say anything about any other, Budda, Mohamed, etc.. It would be socially offensive , point is Jesus ...well... I'll put it this way, as Christians we are to extend the right hand of fellowship (welcome, love, care). The world gives Jesus the Lt. Foot.....but it's cool socially??
I wish I had more time. I'm Chill'n more, Enjoying this alot.....Don't worry about Oneironaut, He's still just a little sore over his last Asswoop'n.
I've got to cut that out, Oneironaut. I like ya more than that.
You moron, How many names do you have, All of a sudden these brand new sign ons are sings the Praises of the almighty. Come on this is 2 + 2, I studied Calculus out of the book, went to class for tests. What adolesence.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeedGremblin
.
. Moron is being nice. Manipulative is too. Well, thats what Satanist learn. Lets see, think I'll pass on the fruit today.
I'll stop dog'n people. It's not fun. I am not sure I should hang around. Oneironaut, I am concerned about you. Having the attitude I have is not going to foster a safe environment for either of us to talk openly. It should be apparent that Jake was on the money that Christians need forgiveness, My imperfections emphasize that his statement is right on.
Thanks Guys, I hope some of you take me up on the offer for some music on Hempstones thread. Kevin is outstanding. You will be very suprised.
Love to all,
Braddog