Is smoking marijuana a sin

What is your opinion on this?

There are good things and bad things in life obviously marijuana is a good thing but thats just my personal opinion. There are laws in life that we have to follow if we break them by, for example vandalising stealing rape dealing etc they are all sins, so does mean smoking marijuana is a sin!?

In some countries its legal so would it make a differencec where we smoked it?

Is it a sin!?

Can we still go to heaven if we smoke weed?

What do you think?

Thanks in advance! :). :stoned:

It's not a sin, i also think this because laws are just things higher authorities get to enforce, because something is illegal doesn't mean its wrong.

Mushrooms on the other hand im not so sure... they seem to be the forbidden fruit....but we'll never know till we die.

Interesting word 'sin'. The etemology comes from a greek archery term.....it means "Missing the Mark". Dunno why I like that but I do.

What ya gotta figure is that nothing natural is innately good or bad. It's how it's used that gives it its definitions.

If I were to slap definitions on it I would say this little plant takes on the archeypical role of the Trickster. "He isn't always evil, and he is not always wrong' as billy joel would say in the song...lol

..but I'm rabbling, aren't I?

Well, you're going to have to decide for yourself if it's a sin or not. But don't let someone else decide that for you...it just doesn't work out well that way. When you do decide though, don't bullshit yourself. If you can be honest with yourself ,you'll know the answer for you personally.

Me, as a very devout Christian, used to tear myself apart worrying about if i was going to hell for smoking marijuana.

I then did a very large amount of studying, and i have came up with the conclusion its fine to smoke weed.

There are NUMBEROUS verses in the bible talking about herbs in a positive light, one of the most famous being "I have created all green herbs bearing seed, for you to be as meat"(paraphrased)....now, this is very interesting, as it also says in the bible, (once again paraphrased) "In latter times, the spirit speaketh expressingly, that some shall speak against the meats in which God hath given you for thanksgiving"...now if "herb" is as meat, does this not mean the bible could have already prophecized the stigma against smoking weed now-a-days?


"Kaneh-Bosm"(Kaneh-Bos sounds familier eh? the M is to make it plural), was used to make annointing oil...a hebrew university or something has confirmed that "Kaneh-Bosm" is indeed the Cannabis plant, and 9 pounds would be mixed in with other substances (like cinnamen, myrrth, and i believe olive), and rubbed on the skin for healing, driving away evil spirits, and forgiveness of sins. The amount of cannabis added in, was (i think) 250 Shekels. Depending on which type of Shekel(i think there were different sizing in shekels per location), this is about 9 pounds of cannibis. This annointing oil would be so incredibly psycoactive, it is said it could be absorbed in the skin to produce an incredible high. "Kaneh-Bosm" was also used in incense, i think even the incense in the The Sanctuary of the Lord contained kaneh-bosm.

Other things:

Mice injected with THC lived longer than mice that were not injected with THC.

We have cannabis receptors in the brain.(meaning we were CREATED with the choice to use cannabis...why else would God put cannabis receptors in our brain, i think Cannabis is the only drug there is that we already have receptors for)

Cannabis is a great medicine, safer than most legal drugs.

Cannabis is an herb....whens the last time God prohibitted the use of an herb?

If i remember correctly, cannabis resin has been found in incense holders in jewish temples.

Thats a great question, I respect all of you. To consider these things is honorable and appropriate. Nothing is w/o sin though. We will live a free'r life if we accept this truth. It is very much the truth, Otherwise the misunderstanding, relegates us to walk a tight rope of fear, and hypervigilance of stepping too Lt or too far Rt.

A very good example of this.....a powerful one can be observed of Paul explaining the same to a very small, very new group of Christians in Corinth.

Guy's I have to step out......I'll finish

"It is not what Goes into the mouth, but what comes out of the mouth that defiles a man!"
"It is all good when taken in thanksgiving"
"God saw that it was good or very Good"

The meaning of "meat"...and how it is to be used (eaten, smoked, oil) might come into Question, But according to God he Gave us everything to use and to give thanks for!...we are to enjoy our lives, and share everything with respect, and as good stewards of the creation, restore and keep things working in good working order!

Marijuana is to be used by the elders!
Or someone grounded in religious belief, because it opens doors in the mind that might weaken ones resistance to Satan...and what I call Evil (Breaking the commandments) or being disobeidant towards elders!

Is it doing God's will, or our own will?..(to tend and keep the garden)(or to smoke and become lazy in the garden) I think is more important!

Marijuana is a living entity that does something in the garden, that no other plant can do!
it is not replaceable!
It is required in that system!
And it is our job to sow these seeds around the world! (God's will)

the body is the temple of christ and that smoke puts tar on the lungs, but if thats true then being fats a sin too!

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Originally Posted by Sir Les

"It is not what Goes into the mouth, but what comes out of the mouth that defiles a man!"
"It is all good when taken in thanksgiving"
"God saw that it was good or very Good"

The meaning of "meat"...and how it is to be used (eaten, smoked, oil) might come into Question, But according to God he Gave us everything to use and to give thanks for!...we are to enjoy our lives, and share everything with respect, and as good stewards of the creation, restore and keep things working in good working order!

Marijuana is to be used by the elders!
Or someone grounded in religious belief, because it opens doors in the mind that might weaken ones resistance to Satan...and what I call Evil (Breaking the commandments) or being disobeidant towards elders!

Is it doing God's will, or our own will?..(to tend and keep the garden)(or to smoke and become lazy in the garden) I think is more important!

Marijuana is a living entity that does something in the garden, that no other plant can do!
it is not replaceable!
It is required in that system!
And it is our job to sow these seeds around the world! (God's will)

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Jonny Cannabis Seed. :P

yes its a sin. and were all gonna burn in hell for all of eternity because of that 1 joint we smoked in college.

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Originally Posted by shamrok16

yes its a sin. and were all gonna burn in hell for all of eternity because of that 1 joint we smoked in college.

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'What an immature little prick', yes, thats what i thought when i read your stupid little post

oh what a suprise you're banned

a sin of the bible??? naaaaa but thats just a book written by humans anyways
a sin against our creator?? with naturally occuring thc receptor sites in our brain coded into our dna also???? shit no

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Originally Posted by cannabis campbell

'What an immature little prick', yes, thats what i thought when i read your stupid little post

oh what a suprise you're banned

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Not really...it is a stupid question..if weed smokers are gonna burn in hell, then so the fuck are alcohol drinkers, which is like 70 percent of the adult population in the world.

weed is no stronger drug than alcohol.

I am not catholic...but is it not a sin to masterbate???? So then CC if you're going to hell anyways....enjoy.

yes its considered a sin to masterbate, be gay/bi in many cultures, in Iran they will hang u

some third world countries are so fucked up. Im proud to be in america, and very thankful to have the freedom we do

There are vast data that clearly reflect the hand of God in the assembly of the Bible, Harmonic. There's a lot of reading you obviously have not done to merit such dogmatism on your part. Shelbay provided this outstanding overview on another thread.

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Originally Posted by Shelbay

There are 2 major divisions of the Bible...the Hebrew Scriptures and what Christians refer to as the New Testament. The Bible was written over a 1,500+ year span by more than 40 different authors from all parts of life so to speak ie: Moses was a political leader trained at the universities of Egypt:David was a Shepherd,musician & King:Joshua was a military general:Nehemiah was a palace official to a pagan king:Daniel was a pm:Luke was a Physician & historian:Paul was a rabbi etc..those are just a few. The Bible was also written in different places ie:The desert,a dungeon,a palace,a prison etc....There are 3 languages:Hebrew,Greek and a few short sections in Aramic which was "the common language" of Jesus' time. The Bible was written on 3 different continents at different times..The Bible is much more than a historical record..not saying parts are not history..they are but other parts of the Bible are poetry,proverbs,personal correspondence (yes its true),memoirs,law,prophecy,biography,autobiography ,parables & allegory..so I understand about people saying its mans word but i don't agree..considering that the Old Testament supports the Hebrew Scriptures as we know them today..they were collected & recognized long before Constantine possibly as early as the 4th century b.c. and for certain no later than 150 b.c. Malachi was written around 450 to 430 b.c. and Chronicles was written no later than 400 b.c. my point being that the books of the Old Testament were collected and translated into Greek NOT by the Vatican..not by Constantine & not even early Christians but more than a hundred years before Jesus' birth by a consensus of generations of Jewish rabbis and scholars..so in my view of the word definitive..that would be it.

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Originally Posted by 1234abcd

yes its considered a sin to masterbate, be gay/bi in many cultures, in Iran they will hang u

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Interesting, which head will they hang you by?

Not sure if God got back to any of you, but can you let me know when it's OK to smoke again?

Geez, if spankin' the monkey is a sin there's not going to be any males and very few females in heaven. (except me of course. I would never do something so disgusting)

There's not one word against it in the Bible and we all know why...don't we :)

Wait a minute, there is that one passage about it being better to visit a prostitute than to flog the flounder...but that's a little impractical and not a very good idea. (yup, it's in there...but don't make me look it up cuz I'm lazy)

But this is about smoking herb though, isn't it. Well, if you enjoy it more than likely you can count on it being a sin. Sorry, I don't make the rules, I just violate'm.

You guys are hillarious, but you miss it.

The entire creation fell. There were no thorns on plants originally, Ironic isn't it that Jesus was given a crown of thorns. Quite the metaphor of even bearing the pain of the fall.

A small group of Christians formed in the city of Corinth. They were very concerned about sin. In a city saturated with it. If something was perverted, or corrupt in their day........ it was "Corinthianized".

Specifically, they were concerned about buying in the market place. The meat was primarily meat from sacrifices to Idols of pagan God's from any of the number of Temples located there. Basically, they were to enjoy there life there. Buy, sell, live, have families, and love others.

Many things are clean now,.......The sin issue as it relates to these people,........... if they abstain from sexual immorality ~ they would do well.

I think this will answer a few questions
also ~ Look at vs 29 carefully,

Corinthians 8

23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
24Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.
28 But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake;
29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?
30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;
33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.

Some things are not profitable in our individual lives. I must individually sort out my own healthy boundries / moderations. I'll rephrase vs 29. How can I judge others freedoms by my conscience?

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Originally Posted by braddog10

There are vast data that clearly reflect the hand of God in the assembly of the Bible, Harmonic. There's a lot of reading you obviously have not done to merit such dogmatism on your part. Shelbay provided this outstanding overview on another thread.

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eh, i have done some reading but am no expert
did these people that wrote it speak to god directly?? theres plenty of things in the bible "torah" that could be interpreted as aliens posing as gods also.
I look around and see proof of the creator everyday and in everything that exists. This proof existed long before the torah was written and will last an eternity more while someday that book will be long forgotten.
I also see our Earth as a living being that has to cleanse itself every once in a while. We are destroying it every day more and more and becoming more modernized and building our factories and cities and making exticnt all kinds of species of life so mr moneybags can wipe his ass with gold every time he farts. well its about time for the Earth to cleanse

Listen man, You should know that almost every single fucking day there isn't anything we can do from sinning. no matter how hard we try. That's why Christianity can't be based on works. We all miss the mark no matter how "goody goody" any one person tries to be. Everyone falls short of the glory of God and that's what christians accept. And any sin in the eyes of God is a hellworthy tresspass. That's what Jesus came and fixed. So that all we need to get into heaven is "Saving-Faith". Know you have saving faith and know you're getting into heaven regardless of your human sinful nature. In reality we're all equal to Jeffrey Dohmer. Most people would be too offended to examine this truth and accept it, we're fucked without jesus.

no way is it a sin. Law does not equal right and wrong. Going 60 mph in a 35 mph speed limit is against the law, is it a sin?

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Originally Posted by braddog10

Interesting, which head will they hang you by?

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Classic.

there is no doubt in my mind that it is not a sin,

y would god make these plants able to get u high and have a good time, if he didnt want u to use them in the first place

it would be a waste of god's work if we did not smoke his plants or eat his mushrooms

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Originally Posted by klonopin

the body is the temple of christ and that smoke puts tar on the lungs, but if thats true then being fats a sin too!

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it is. gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.

if god did not whant us smoking it he would have never givin it to us

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Originally Posted by braddog10

Interesting, which head will they hang you by?

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But...

Cannabis (like I said on another thread) contradicts itself, much like The Holy Bible.

Which fruit of our labor/The Earth will you hang yourself on?

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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs

But...

Cannabis (like I said on another thread) contradicts itself, much like The Holy Bible.

Which fruit of our labor/The Earth will you hang yourself on?

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Ok....What are they?....Oh, and evolution is solid? ....It has been decimated.

No, it is not a sin. There is no such thing as sin. Sin is an archaic superstition based upon the idea of a cosmic father figure who tallies up all our niceness and naughtyness points and gives us reward or punishment accordingly. Basically, Santa Claus for adults.

It's time to get rid of sin and replace it with the idea of responsibility. There are only material actions and material consequences, and morality should be based on avoiding bad consequences and favoring good consequences as much as possible. Murder is not bad because there is something about the act of killing that offends some magical sky wizard; murder is bad because of the negative consequences it produces (loss of a human life). However if good consequences outweigh that (like shooting a fascist genocidal dictator) then murder could reasonably be justified.

We need to take responsibility for our own actions. The worst thing about Biblical morality and Jesus' teachings, I think, is this idea that we can do whatever bad things we want and it's okay as long as we get on our knees and beg for forgiveness (except for blaspheming the fucking Holy Spirit; Yahweh for some reason won't forgive you for that one sin). Basically, the whole idea of "justice" in Biblical morality is, when you have wronged someone, to make it up to God and not to the person you have wronged. If you steal your neighbor's car, for example, you have to beg Yahweh for forgiveness instead of give your neighbor's car back and make it up to him somehow.

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Oh, and evolution is solid? ....It has been decimated.

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Evolution has been decimated? Oh, I see, you're from the tiny part of the world where evolution is even an issue. Go look at the actual scientific community and see if it has been "decimated" as a viable theory to explain the body of evidence. You know, talk to some real biologists or paleontologists sometime.

Fuck no its not a sin, god put it on the earth were just making good use out of it :rasta:

"is marijuana a sin"? it would depend on who you ask. jerry falwell and george bush would love to have you believe that it is a sin. the christian RIGHT WING (as most are) would like to tell you it is a sin, however this is namely because of political reasons.

the way i see it, everything was created by God for a useful purpose. Take a look around you. We have trees which produce oxygen. We have opium poppies which have been used as effective medicine for literately thousands fo years, used to treat pain. We have apples and oranges and vegitables which are a good source of vitamins.

If we first of all choose to believe in the theory of intelligent creation, and then choose to believe in the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus, would it then be blasphemy against God to assume that something created by GOD HIMSELF is sinful? God created everything good (i.e. holy) as it is said in the Torah; the jewish scriptures (don't ask me to quote that, just google it).. for christians that's the "old testament".

The way i see it, God has created everything for a purpose. God created the opium poppy to control pain; God created vegitables as nutritious food for us to live off of. For what purpose then, did God create Marijuana This being said, would you not then assume it blasphemous to say that something God created is "sinful" and "bad" and "immoral" etc?

The way I see it, who the fuck is mr. preacher so-and-so to judge my actions? He's a person like myself.

Do what you think is right for yourself, don't be scared into thinking that if you smoke some herb then you will burn in hell. That's just another form of control!!!

Yeah, even if the Bible was correct, smoking weed wouldn't be a sin. Nowhere is it condemned, and probably smoking pot was completely unknown among the ancient Hebrews who wrote the thing. And it says clearly in the very first chapter of the Bible:

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And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
...
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

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Evolution is being abandoned by non Christian scientist.

Gray mentioned something about the world in which we live....left to statistical chance. You having two eyes, two ears, all your specialized organs, and the clincher........the single cell, impossible to just "occur". It has delicate, chemical balances, a system, just as ours is. A tremendously complex unit, It has DNA!.. for Gods sake!! this is laughable.....Now Get this ~ THE SINGLE CELL IS IRREDUCIBLE ~ It can't suvive w/o any of the many critical life chemicals it is made of. Oneironaut, not at you, ........at the people that taught you, and came up with this crap. Statistical chance Gray? Wow....This takes more faith than I've got. Interesting religion you have there. If the single cell is dead then so is the whole of their religion, This very belief has been their most sacred Holy religious Icon. Guarded .......as well as anyone would guard their most sacred Holy truths.

Life coming from non life ?!!! To bet against these kind of odds even occasionally, I'd be a wealthy man.


Just a side note,...when I observe an expressed criticism of God. I can't help but notice that the implied reference.............. is to the Christian God. The individual acknowledges Him by default. To me, it is so obvious. I will concede that...........maybe this is just me...

There is so much documented History of Our Creator, as He is identified in the Bible. Documented In Egypt, In Persia, ....stones were unearthed documenting the Assyrian seize, recorded by the Assyrians no less, God slew a hundred thousand, over night, this stone made reference to â??Hezekiah of the house of Davidâ?�. Some atheist claim that King David was a fable. I find that their homework is .....well..their research is fabricated.. Excuse me, ...... These are IRS tactics. Prove that you did not make this much money. Prove that your house is not worth this much, Oh,....and by the way .......you can pay for your own home appraisal.

Well, Mr. Jennings ....you have the right to be silent, and you are guilty by the way until you can prove your self innocent.. Boy..... Oh, My!!.... We have some serious allegations here. Hope you have a good attorney. ...........Well, Iâ??m very sorry Mr Jennings, but you have failed to satisfy your innocence of our claim against you, so I senten.........

These people claim God to be mean, judgmental, cruel, harsh, and unfair, ...unbelievable Hypocrisy?? Oneironaut, the God you describe, the attributes, the labels you assign, are not consistent with who He clearly is ............. revealed. Tallies up niceness? naughtiness?..Santa Clause? The Scripture that I have posted, clearly reflects otherwise. Please click on my name and work you way back. I started posting "The Word" about a month ago.

Please do it, I hope it helps you. I have already described above what it is to make claims with out knowledge. I believe you desire honesty.

Oneironaut, You were remarkably humble in the midst of my rudeness. Please email me, I would like to correspond privately.

Braddog

You're forgetting the rest..

"the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ...."but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, though shalt not eat of it: of in that day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever...."

hehehe...nothing's ever simple, is it?

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Originally Posted by braddog10

Evolution is being abandoned by non Christian scientist.

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Like who? The consensus among biologists and paleontologists is very clear, if you actually bother to listen to what they have to say.

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Gray mentioned something about the world in which we live....left to statistical chance. You having two eyes, two ears, all your specialized organs, and the clincher........the single cell, impossible to just "occur". It has delicate, chemical balances, a system, just as ours is. A tremendously complex unit, It has DNA!.. for Gods sake!! this is laughable.....

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Ah yes, the old argument from personal incredulity. "I can't think of why this is therefore God did it (oops I mean the "Intelligent Designer" who might be space aliens or something).

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Oneironaut, not at you, ........at the people that taught you, and came up with this crap. Statistical chance Gray? Wow....This takes more faith than I've got. Interesting religion you have there. If the single cell is dead then so is the whole of their religion, This very belief has been their most sacred Holy religious Icon. Guarded .......as well as anyone would guard their most sacred Holy truths.

Life coming from non life ?!!! To bet against these kind of odds even occasionally, I'd be a wealthy man.

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If life did not come from non-life, then life has been around forever. :confused:

Your whole argument boils down to complexity. If something is sufficiently complex, then it must have been designed, and life fulfills that criterion. Well then, you have to apply that idea consistently. If life is too complex, then so is a life-designer, which must be way more complex than any organism or ecosystem we've ever seen. What are the chances of something THAT complicated just suddenly arising out of nothingness?

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Just a side note,...when I observe an expressed criticism of God. I can't help but notice that the implied reference.............. is to the Christian God. The individual acknowledges Him by default. To me, it is so obvious. I will concede that...........maybe this is just me...

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Huh?

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There is so much documented History of Our Creator, as He is identified in the Bible. Documented In Egypt, In Persia, ....stones were unearthed documenting the Assyrian seize, recorded by the Assyrians no less, God slew a hundred thousand, over night, this stone made reference to “Hezekiah of the house of David”. Some atheist claim that King David was a fable. I find that their homework is .....well..their research is fabricated.. Excuse me, ...... These are IRS tactics. Prove that you did not make this much money. Prove that your house is not worth this much, Oh,....and by the way .......you can pay for your own home appraisal.

Well, Mr. Jennings ....you have the right to be silent, and you are guilty by the way until you can prove your self innocent.. Boy..... Oh, My!!.... We have some serious allegations here. Hope you have a good attorney. ...........Well, I’m very sorry Mr Jennings, but you have failed to satisfy your innocence of our claim against you, so I senten.........

These people claim God to be mean, judgmental, cruel, harsh, and unfair, ...unbelievable Hypocrisy?? Oneironaut, the God you describe, the attributes, the labels you assign, are not consistent with who He clearly is ............. revealed. Tallies up niceness? naughtiness?..Santa Clause? The Scripture that I have posted, clearly reflects otherwise. Please click on my name and work you way back. I started posting "The Word" about a month ago.

Please do it, I hope it helps you. I have already described above what it is to make claims with out knowledge. I believe you desire honesty.

Oneironaut, You were remarkably humble in the midst of my rudeness. Please email me, I would like to correspond privately.

Braddog

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Even if the Bible was true, I would have to be a Satanist. It says in that book that Yahweh is a cruel, racist, sexist, homophobic, pro-slavery totalitarian dictator who imposes his arbitrary rules on everybody and burns them if they break the rules and then don't get on their knees and start groveling about it. Seriously, I can honestly say that Yahweh is the worst character in any book I have ever read. Satan's reported evils pale in comparison.

Just like Hitler, Yahweh has a chosen people that is told to exterminate other peoples which are determined to be somehow intrinsically inferior and corrupt. Just like Hitler, Yahweh sends them in to kill the men, take the women and children (well actually Hitler didn't do that one), expropriate the wealth, and start living in their new Lebensraum that has been freed from the inferior races. Just like Hitler, Yahweh demands complete and unquestioning obedience or else you'll be tortured and burned. I refuse to support authoritarian dictators bent on nationalism and slavery who proclaim themselves the be-all and end-all of existence while demanding that you worship them. That is tyranny and I would not stand for it, since I support democracy and equality.

"A jealous lover of human liberty, deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him." —Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:Braddog
Oneironaut, not at you, ........at the people that taught you, and came up with this crap. Statistical chance Gray? Wow....This takes more faith than I've got. Interesting religion you have there. If the single cell is dead then so is the whole of their religion, This very belief has been their most sacred Holy religious Icon. Guarded .......as well as anyone would guard their most sacred Holy truths.
Life coming from non life ?!!! To bet against these kind of odds even occasionally, I'd be a wealthy man.





Quote:Oneironaut
Your whole argument boils down to complexity. If something is sufficiently complex, then it must have been designed, and life fulfills that criterion. Well then, you have to apply that idea consistently. If life is too complex, then so is a life-designer, which must be way more complex than any organism or ecosystem we've ever seen. What are the chances of something THAT complicated just suddenly arising out of nothingness?
.
.
.

.
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Your response here is dangling, so there for God doesn't exist, or superior being which you touch on but then moved away from. Circles man....... Many words, nothing said. No points addressed by you either, in you entire post. I'm embarrassed for you. This is too painful for me to watch. You become stupid, sorry buddy, stupid, by your denial of a designer. Scientific societies, Christian and non Christian alike have already agreed on this. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, MAN.

It hurts me to say this. I feel diminished by it. Look, I am grateful that you changed that disgusting signature. Lets chill.....How you and Breuk come onto the spiritual boards sometimes would be considered anti social and mentally Ill in any other venue. Preaching your sick anti-gospel....oh it's a gospel.... don't misunderstand me. But it is an anti-gospel, never the less.

Correction,
I missed part of oneironauts quote:

If life did not come from non-life, then life has been around forever.

Your whole argument boils down to complexity. If something is sufficiently complex, then it must have been designed, and life fulfills that criterion. Well then, you have to apply that idea consistently. If life is too complex, then so is a life-designer, which must be way more complex than any organism or ecosystem we've ever seen. What are the chances of something THAT complicated just suddenly arising out of nothingness?

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Like who? The consensus among biologists and paleontologists is very clear, if you actually bother to listen to what they have to say.

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Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr. James Allan, Geneticist
Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
Dr. Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr. Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist (interview)
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr. David Down, Field Archaeologist
Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr. Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr. Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr. John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr. Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr. Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Dr. John Leslie, Biochemist
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr. Alan Love, Chemist
Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
Dr. John McEwan, Chemist
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr. David Menton, Anatomist
Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist
Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist
Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist
Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr. Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
Dr. Ian Scott, Educator
Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr. Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
Dr. Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr. Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr. Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology -

Just to name a fraction of a percentage. Incase you've been under a rock for the passed 30 years you'd know that Creation supporting scientists are the fastest growing minority in all of the scientific fields.

You should know that Darwins Theory is a dismal failure. I predict that within 20 years people are going to read up on the theory and think how stupid it was that anyone could ever believe it. No scientific field supports Darwinism in any fashion. Especially not Archeology, which Darwin thought would prove his theory in time. It ended up doing the exact oppossite.

And to answer your question about how something as infinitely complex God could "pop" into being from nothingness is simple if you think about it. Time is something created by God. Time only exists within the universe as we know it and since God exists outside of Time that makes him the only being that can exist without an origin point. Which brings me to the topic of how the universe was created. If you heard a loud bang in the other room and we where both sitting in an office and you said "what happened?" and I said "nothing." you wouldn't accept that as an answer. You would assume that SOMETHING caused that loud noise out there. The same is true for the "big Bang" theory.

Not to mention the rediculouse amount of fine tuning that this planet required for life to flourish. We live in essence what is a "Goldie locks" zone. The exact right point in the galaxy, Exactly where we would need to be in the solar system, perfect gravity, A moon which stabalizes the earths rotation which is exactly 40 times smaller than the sun -which gives us the opportunity to see solar eclipses- Just the right amount of different Elements and we're perfectly situated in the cosmo's to view other star systems. Like it was made for us to be able to explore and discover what lies beyond the milky way. There's such a rediculousely huge amount of evidence in support of Creationism that I would have to write a book about it to cover some of the points, and by the time I finished Darwinians would stop resorting to circular reasoning and abandon the faith they put so much stock in.

Mind you i'm just some 18 year old kid living in another country. So if you believe age and wisdom go hand in hand you can claim that anything I say is unreliable and can easily be brushed aside.

-but that would make you ignorant-

LordSmaug, You didn't provide addresses and Ph #'s, Apparently, this guy takes issue with their conclusions.


I saw this somewhere, ~ Reality Bites ~ Buddy