Drug users are Modernists who despise Classicism

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism, some of the worst excesses of the 1960's can be laid directly at their feet. Drug users have an extremist hatred for anything classical, they want modern art to erase fine art, for modern theater to destroy the beauty of Sophocles or the tragedy of Euripides. Their hatred for anyone who dares to question their motives is unbelievable - The likes of the Tate Modern and other degenerate art forms is what drives them.

They despise the Roman Empire and everything that noble state form stood for, the birth of Stoicism, born in Greece, continued in Rome, stands against everything drug user modernists stand for, the most famous of words, uttered by one of the Seven Sages of Athens - "Nothing in Excess" is contrary to everything amoral modernism is.

Drug users detest fine art, fine culture and it's manifestations be them Greece or Rome, or individuals like Caesar Augustus and Dante Alighieri (a mighty classicist poet who despised modernism), I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

I forgot to add, drug users are also possibly the most anti-intellectual people you are likely to meet, people who idolize the likes of other anti-intellectuals such as music stars, for example, the adoration of John Lennon, which defies belief.

YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism.

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This right here is the most ignorant statement i have ever heard.

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Originally Posted by The Colonel

YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED

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The wise are instructed by reason; ordinary minds by experience; the stupid, by necessity; and brutes by instinct.

- Cicero

This is not the right place for you to be.

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism........I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

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What are you going to do? Many of your claims are valid - but there are also "drug users" that take them to relieve pain and suffering. Some people are able to use them to enhance creativity and gain insight and knowledge.

Are you going to throw your fight against such people as Carl Sagan, as well? There are pot users that aren't stupid. Some even have a love for Classicism. The artistically sophisticated people are few and far between, and your help in educating people would be more helpful than this rant - which I'm not so sure is 100% serious. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

What are you going to do? Many of your claims are valid - but there are also "drug users" that take them to relieve pain and suffering. Some people are able to use them to enhance creativity and gain insight and knowledge.

Are you going to throw your fight against such people as Carl Sagan, as well? There are pot users that aren't stupid. Some even have a love for Classicism. The artistically sophisticated people are few and far between, and your help in educating people would be more helpful than this rant - which I'm not so sure is serious. :thumbsup:

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The people who can take less harmful drugs in moderation are the ones who are letting their desires be ruled by some element of reason, making their decisions stoical, but I would argue Sagan's brilliance was in spite of his use of cannabis rather than because of it.

Also I notice you admire Nietszche, one of the biggest opponents of Stoicism, Nietszche's ideas that people should give in to their desires of lust, revenge and want are the ideas that make human beings no better than beasts.

Sorry, but why the hell are you here?

I love classicism, in its own respect, and I'm a drug user. Definition?
Stereotyping.
Say it with me...
Ster-e-o-typ-ing.
There was no need to come and interrupt our nice day with your dipshit-ness.

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

The people who can take less harmful drugs in moderation are the ones who are letting their desires be ruled by some element of reason, making their decisions stoical, but I would argue Sagan's brilliance was in spite of his use of cannabis rather than because of it.
Yes, of course, but it didn't "hurt" him, or his mind.

Also I notice you admire Nietszche, one of the biggest opponents of Stoicism, Nietszche's ideas that people should give in to their desires of lust, revenge and want are the ideas that make human beings no better than beasts.

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Nietszche didn't live what he preached. I think that he created provocative challenges, with subtle clues, in his writings with the express purpose of riling people like yourself. I believe that he associated stocim with inflexibility, which can and does happen. Whatever he did, he put his whole self into it. He was creating ways of expressing ideas, and didn't expect his work to be taken down as "truth". I know that you'll have a problem with that - but he was convinced that truth changes. I still don't understand his theory of eternal recurrence, but I don't think he completely did either. He wanted to shake things up, hopefully for the better, and I canâ??t fault him for that.

man o man this is unbelievable. I for one love classical subjects. I love ancient culture and civilizations. Despise the Roman Empire? Haha please my friend be a little less ignorant. I am fascinated and intrigued by the Romans, Greeks, Spartans, Phoenicians and Ghengis Khlan. Hell come to think of it i'm into all of that stuff. Modern art? Modern art can look and be influenced by classical works. Not only are you incredibly ignorant, but this is not the place for you to be.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Nietszche didn't live what he preached. I think that he created provocative challenges, with subtle clues, in his writings with the express purpose of riling people like yourself. I believe that he associated stocim with inflexibility, which can and does happen. Whatever he did, he put his whole self into it. He was creating ways of expressing ideas, and didn't expect his work to be taken down as "truth". I know that you'll have a problem with that - but he was convinced that truth changes. I still don't understand his theory of eternal recurrence, but I don't think he completely did either. He wanted to shake things up, hopefully for the better, and I canâ??t fault him for that.

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You don't seem too sure what Nietszche's actual aims were, if his purpose was to 'rile people up' then he certainly wasn't a good philosopher. But I just find his bullshit about 'will to power' and the uberman boring, it seems like a manifestation of his own delusions of grandeur to cover his obvious inadequacies (like the fact he was a complete nutcase), Stoicism is definately inflexible in certain situations, because it's guiding principle is that reason should govern your actions - Of course there will be some, mostly those infected by the idiocy of the movements of the 60's that will believe in the addage of 'if it feels good, do it' (hence drug use), but I for one consider Stoicism's principles the most admirable feat for man to try and attain.

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I am fascinated and intrigued by the Romans, Greeks, Spartans, Phoenicians and Ghengis Khlan.

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Genghis Khan was the Middle Ages pal.

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Modern art? Modern art can look and be influenced by classical works. Not only are you incredibly ignorant, but this is not the place for you to be.

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Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?

I think you're deliberately being a provocateur. I'm not sure if I dislike that or not. I think I rather like it. You're a divine comic. Yet an infernally subtle one.

With all hail to Caesar from another classical art-drama-music-poetry-loving intellectual. And if weed makes me such, a drug user.

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:

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I'm a Deist but I come from a Greek Orthodox family, happy?

And would it make any difference if I was a 'Religionist', or are you just a bigot?

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.

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Logically of course, that renders my argument obsolete.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.

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I'm getting a kick out of a Yank taking a Brit to language school!

Wow, talk about fucking ignorance. I happen to be a big fan of the fine arts as well as Greek theatre. You say we're also some of the most unintellectual people on earth.. yet, I find more intellect in mature, drug-using individuals than I ever do in overly-opinionated, close-minded retards such as you.

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Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?

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Not all modern art is the same. Thats like saying every person is the same.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:

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Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

I'm a Deist but I come from a Greek Orthodox family, happy?

And would it make any difference if I was a 'Religionist', or are you just a bigot?

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YOU are the "bigot", and your philosophical views, and critical intelligence, are influenced by your beliefs. I happen to admire Deists very much - the ones that lived 200-300 years ago. Weâ??re living in the 21st century, the atom has been split, and there is no evidence of a deity. Deism is no better than theism, when you ignore progress. The source of your frustration is inside yourself, and I'd recommend a regimen of rational-thinking exercises to recover.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

I'm getting a kick out of a Yank taking a Brit to language school!

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Brits didn't corner the market on literacy, you know . . . .

They just think they did.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?

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Uh, yeah. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dopesmoker

Not all modern art is the same. Thats like saying every person is the same.

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Ok for the purposes of debate we'll divide them into the two commonly accepted categories which follow similar artistic trends, modern and post modern. Now tell me, how have either of been influenced by Classical, Byzantine, Early Renaissance, High Renaissance, Baroque, Neo-Classical or Romanticist art?

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?

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That wasn't really a central crux of Divina Comedia, Augustine many centuries earlier dealt with the above issue in his city of god.

But does the fact Dante was religious make his poetry any less brilliant?

You have failed, in all of this, to explain to any of us why Classicism (Classicalism?) is in any way, shape, or form better than Modernism or any other belief for that matter.

If you remember correctly, Rome eventually fell because it was so corrupt and full of itself...:smokin:

I guess smoking weed and listening to hip hop TOTALLY DEFIES BELIEF too, you provoking cunt.

Get off these boards and go to the fucking history channel's forum or something.

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?

I mean honestly man, ALOT has changed since then. How do you feel about postmodernists?

How do you feel about people who don't classify themselves as anything and who live, breathe, and think freely?

If I believe studying Cicero and his principles of government and society are a complete waste of time, am I stupid simply in virtue of my tastes in literature?

Come on....grow up. :smokin:

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Originally Posted by Binzhoubum

You have failed, in all of this, to explain to any of us why Classicism (Classicalism?) is in any way, shape, or form better than Modernism or any other belief for that matter.

If you remember correctly, Rome eventually fell because it was so corrupt and full of itself...:smokin:

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If you read my posts, as brief as they are in this thread, regarding Stoicism, that will address your point.

Oh, and there are varying theories as to why the Western Roman Empire fell, to go into them in detail would take much time and effort, and I really can't be bothered, suffice to say, the factors were basically varying economic (in regards to agriculture and trade and taxation) and social. But it wasn't really due to 'corruption' in any general sense.

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Originally Posted by Billionfold

Well, I smoke pot because I like to get high. Some people drink beer, because they like to get drunk. Do you consider drinkers to be the same as these drug users you speak of? I don't hate anything classical. In fact, I love to learn about ancient Greece and Rome, because it interests me. I've never really been big on art, but I do not despise it. In fact, classical art makes for sense to me than most modern art. By the way, who else likes chili?

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Nice point, considering the Romans were known for their drunken orgies (not to mention homosexual pedophilia----but, yeah, I guess you are right, Dante A. Society is worse off now)...

AND I am SURE that good old Cicero and Dante attended a few...

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

That wasn't really a central crux of Divina Comedia, Augustine many centuries earlier dealt with the above issue in his city of god.

But does the fact Dante was religious make his poetry any less brilliant?

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It wasn't a central theme of Divina Comedia but it was a central theme in Dante himself, as most biographies will tell you.

Would his religiousness make his poetry any less brilliant? Not to me, no.

And classical or Renaissance religious art is no less brilliant. Michaelangelo's Pieta? It doesn't get any better than that.

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Originally Posted by Dante Alighieri

I forgot to add, drug users are also possibly the most anti-intellectual people you are likely to meet

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:rolleyes:

Why don't you man up and study some CONTEMPORARY philosophy?

Or are you scared that it is too difficult to comprehend for your feeble Classical mind? A little Wittgenstein, Foucault, Russell or Quine anyone?

HAHAHAHA!!!! :smokin:

BTW, I am just joking mate. I figure you are, too. If you are serious about all of this, please seek help.

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Originally Posted by Binzhoubum

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?
. . . . Come on....grow up. :

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Ah, careless youth. When you mature, yourself, I hope you'll give a flying one. You're too smart not to.

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Originally Posted by Binzhoubum

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?

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A lot of people, some unfortunately choose to idolize the likes of John Lennon. Who, thankfully, died young enough that his perversive influence on the plebs of society did not deepen.

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I mean honestly man, ALOT has changed since then. How do you feel about postmodernists?

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Post-Modernism is broad and general, but it's ideas of individual liberty in my opinion are vastly different to those of the classical liberals like John Locke, it is individual-centric and hence gives no regard to the welfare or state of society at large, I say this not in a socialist sense, but rather in a sense of one who laments the way modern society can worship things like fame (for the most ridiculous of reasons) to the extent they do.

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How do you feel about people who don't classify themselves as anything and who live, breathe, and think freely?

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You're trying to invent a whole new category of social thought which is incredibly vague so you can tailor it to your own beliefs as the argument shifts. I mean, what classifies as 'thinking freely'?

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If I believe studying Cicero and his principles of government and society are a complete waste of time, am I stupid simply in virtue of my tastes in literature?

Come on....grow up. :smokin:

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I assume you are talking about his 'Res Publica'? It's sad you can't see the influence of Classical Political thought in our present day society. This only goes to prove your ignorance further. I consider it of the greatest importance, you on the other hand, probably consider modern music of the greatest importance, to each his own.

Oh, and they weren't really 'his' ideas on the principles of Government, they were Platonian at their base.

Lol. Quite the lil shindig in here, huh?

Dante, all I will say is that you might want to stop hiding behind your ancient cultures and pseudo-intellect-mumbo-jumbo. You cannot just come here, spouting off bullshit, and not expect to feel the repercussions of doing so. I too wonder where the hell your head's at, and also if you even are considered a "drug user". Grouping all drug users into one beefy stereotype-sandwich just made me sick.

I'm sure there's more to you than all those ridiculous fables you tell.

In either case, I love you. Welcome. ~

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Originally Posted by Binzhoubum

Nice point, considering the Romans were known for their drunken orgies (not to mention homosexual pedophilia----but, yeah, I guess you are right, Dante A. Society is worse off now)...

AND I am SURE that good old Cicero and Dante attended a few...

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An amateur at classical history obviously, sorry but thats a myth - There were a few patricians from rich families who engaged in such acts, but how can you judge the entirety of roman society (whose morality was very similar to Judeo-Christian), based on that?

Cicero was a Conservative so it was likely he didn't. Oh, and Dante was from the Middle-Ages, not Classical Rome.

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Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?

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same way that you ( a modern person) is influenced by classical life.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Ah, careless youth. When you mature, yourself, I hope you'll give a flying one. You're too smart not to.

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Thanks for the compliment Birdgirl!

I was just caught up in the moment...:D

I have a copy of Plato's great dialogues and a Krishnamurti collection sitting on the desk right now.

Don't get me wrong...I respect the classics...I just don't have much respect for people who put all of their energy, intellect, faith, etc. into one "-ism". Especially when they start off the day as an asshole. :thumbsup: