Soma's Feminine Seed Method ...

"I named this new method â??Rodelizationâ?� after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plant in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male â??bananasâ?�. A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built in safety factor so in case of sever conditions, the plant can make sure that the species is furthered.

To me a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop or at least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emerging devices out. I call them â??Emergency Devicesâ?� because they emerge at times of stress."

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THE SPECULATION:
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Now I'm by no means a grower, BUT...the assumption is that female flowers develop male 'bananas' with pollen that produced 100% feminine seeds, to further propogate the species. This in my honest opinion conflicts with logic and common sense. The plant wants to further its species, I'll buy that. But what I don't buy is that they are all female seeds. That would be a very foolish thing to do for a species to create all females, as the plant created the 'male banana' in the first place to reproduce itself, because there is no males around. to create all female seeds would mean you would have no males whatsoever, and the plant would have to create these male bananas every single time, unless it gets lucky enough to have a male a few miles away, and have pollen reach it. and 10-14 days longer after a harvest, wouldn't all the calyx's be 'dead' and unable to reproduce in the first place? The other problem I have with this idea is that if male pollen was released, it may not even land on the plant, and be immediately blow away from the immediate area. This whole theory, out in the wild, would be very bad for the plants, as they would create nothing but females and have to keep making male bananas near the end of flowering every single generation. After evolution and time, this plant should become a completely new offshoot, that reproduces only by pollinating itself, forever being a hermie every single generation. And Without any newly introduced genes in an area without males, you would think that over time, these plants would eventually suffer from severe genetic degradation.

Also, I don't see how you could say a unfertilized flowering plant, is being stressed by lack of fertilization, since it is said that stress is what causes these male bananas in the first place. Under that assumption, it would be said that ALL hermie plants produce female only seeds.

Though it seems illogical, this is not an uncommon trend in nature. The human eye has a blind spot among other fallacies in nature. The reason all the seeds are female is because the male banana is composed of only female chromosomes of the same plant so if you polinate it with its own genes you will get the same plant.

Its like identical twins inbreeding.

Another note, I have never tried this with the male banana tactic, but with a item called CL-one I believe. What it does is changes the plants sex causing your budding females to produce pollen sacs.

Wow....even I don't argue with Soma.

We have discussions but I don't argue with him. ;)

Good luck

I wouldn't argue with Soma either.
Zandor you know him.
That dude is a legend.
He's like a rock start in my eyes. lol

The only down side to Soma's technic in my opinion is that in order to make S1's this way.
You are going to be using the plants that are most suseptable to hermies.
There for your seeds would have more of a hermie tendency if stressed.
But this is just a theory.
I never tested this.

I would use STS to make Selfed seeds.
That way you can stress your plants and reverse the one that withstands turning hermie under stress.

well I'm not argueing in a rude way to say at the very least, just voicing my own opinions. And, remember, he DIDN'T invent this technique, so it's not as severe. Anyways, If there is a way to make females into males, then there has gotta be a way to make males into females. This is more of a discussion from my point of view. It just seems that there should be a whole range of different types that should be hermie and only hermie completely as a result of this.

No actually thats not right.
I know you aren't being insulting.
We just meant.
Why doubt Soma.
He knows more on this subject then anyone on this site.
So why argue what he says.
But you have every right to doubt him.
I believe it is posssible to turn a male female.
But it is way tougher.
And sometimes just wont happen.
All MJ plants have a level of hermie tendencies.

It's a matter of breeding those plants that switch sex easyily out.
So you breed with the plants that wont hermie easily.

The reason a female turns herie.
Is a hormone that builds up during the dark period.
Once this hormone is not building up(do to light leaks,over flowering, stuff like that) then the plant will think it need to reproduce on it own.
\Spewing all female polline on your plants.
Remember if the plant is hermie to begin with ,you cxan not use it for breeding females.
You need to turn a plant hermie in order to make females.
STS is the best way to do this without causing huge amuonts of stress.

Check out ICMForum.
They have everything you need to know.

if a plant is herm to begin with why wouldnt it be able to produce all femaile seeds? A female plant that has herm tendencies still has only 2 y cromisomes. Or thats what i remember reading.

Your right.
It would produce all female seeds.
But the chance of them turning hermie under stress will be greater if using a stressed hermie for polline.
STS just reverses it.
Instead of stressing it to hermie.

First....The sex of this plant (not all plants but this plant) is determined by the RNA of the plant Not the DNA. So that means every plant has a chance of being either M or F. The idea behind feminized seeds is to increase the chance of a female plant by more then 50%. Every plant can turn from female to male given the right set of conditions. Feminized seeds have a higher percentage then normal to be female then male with all conditions being with in the given range for a successful grow. You still need to control the environment or they too can become hermies. When a plant turns on you most of the time itâ??s not the whole plant but just one or two nodes. Mostly the lower nodes that are denied the same intense lumens the upper nodes will turn on you.

Heat is the #1 cause of a female plant to show male tendencies and turn on you. There are products on the market today that can stop the male bananas from completing their cycle and causing problems for todayâ??s grower. As the science of this plant grows so does our understanding of controlling the sex. I believe in the not so distant future there will be a spray that given at the proper cycle very early in the life cycle that will improve the percentage of your plant being female over male.

There are some products that you can soak the seeds in that give them a greater chance of 50/50 being female over male. They work at the RNA level of the seed and are used to germinate the seed instead of using distilled water. I have used that same product for years and I have seen positive results and I still use it today. The problem with products like this is skepticism and miss-information being posted on the forum around the world. Not that they used the product but they just trashed it because they did not have the IQ to see its potential. They trash things they fear and do not understand. It makes them feel like the big man on campus, as they pound their chest. It goes with the old grower who sayâ??s hell I can grow pot in anything and it will grow. Sure it may but if you donâ??t understand how then you could never comprehend the why.

Feminized seeds just increase the percentage of growing a female plant.

IMO: They are not worth the price.

"not worth the price"

yeah i totally aggree (shit how do u spell that) with that.

That - hehehe

I agree with not buying feminized seeds...I get a good % of fem's by using sound stressless grow methods. peace

good thread

No reason to use them unless it's a clone only strain like OG Kush.
Motarebel has a nice OG Kush S2.
I have some.
My Oguana Kush was made with the same S1 mother.
And that was my last plant to hermie in extreme heat.

I've gotten lucky soo far and have only had females, even in large groups from reg bagseed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jdog7000

Why doubt Soma.

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Just because someone of great respect says something, doesn't mean he can't be wrong.
If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them, instead of experimenting for yourself and trial/error methods, where would we be?

I think it's fantastic to question. To try new things, & go against the grain. Thats how we learn, evolve and better ourselves.

I have a degree in organic chemistry and biology from a widely respected Univeristy. Some of the things I read in published cannabis books regarding plant biology, makes me laugh.
The best route to learning, is hands on. Use everything else as guides.

While I highly respect Soma, and he may be a "legend", ... he is still human! :D

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Female seed company actually makes excellent hermie free female seeds (As long as you don't stress them) . Their X-Line isn't as tested as their normal lineup but I have had fantastic experiences with them.

They use stress free methods of creating all female seeds. While they don't go into detail, I only assume they would use suspended ionic silver. This is the only stress free method I'm aware of. Short of genetic manipulation in a lab.

~r

Good point bro.
I was refering to Zandors comment about Soma.

But yes female seeds should all be female.
The hermie thing ussually comes out in the last week or so.
From stress.
I'm going to give this a shot on my Bubba Kush, OG Kush, PInk KUsh, Urkle and Blue Dot.
I'll be using STS.And stressing my plants first to find out which ones are the most stable out of the S1's and then make S2s with those.
I'm also going to cross Urkle and Blue Dot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relic2279

Just because someone of great respect says something, doesn't mean he can't be wrong.
If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them, instead of experimenting for yourself and trial/error methods, where would we be?

I think it's fantastic to question. To try new things, & go against the grain. Thats how we learn, evolve and better ourselves.

I have a degree in organic chemistry and biology from a widely respected Univeristy. Some of the things I read in published cannabis books regarding plant biology, makes me laugh.
The best route to learning, is hands on. Use everything else as guides.

While I highly respect Soma, and he may be a "legend", ... he is still human! :D

-----
Female seed company actually makes excellent hermie free female seeds (As long as you don't stress them) . Their X-Line isn't as tested as their normal lineup but I have had fantastic experiences with them.

They use stress free methods of creating all female seeds. While they don't go into detail, I only assume they would use suspended ionic silver. This is the only stress free method I'm aware of. Short of genetic manipulation in a lab.

~r

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True but why reinvent the wheel.

"If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them"
The planet would be a much better place.
It's better to learn from them and then take it to the next level. That is what many have done after that was first written up about 10 years ago. If you assumed it was NEW; that was a major Assumption on your part. It's still very valid today and many have taken that approach and moved on to other methods as technology and our knowledge has grown and expanded.

Should I take it down because it's about 10 years old?
Hell no, Soma does deserve the respect that I and many others have given him. We have learned under him sometime ago and we too have gone beyond what Soma has started.
He is still a HUGE organic grower and I personally and way more experienced in man made nutrients and I prefer them. I learned the basic from Soma about 15 years ago from his writings and then many, many emails then at web sites when he started posting on the Internet.

If anyone is interested then they should spend MONEY on the subject and read and educate yourself. Just because others have done research does not mean it's free to the mass or should be. I am not going to rip off someoneâ??s book and post everything here for FREE. I have a very large collection of papers and books on growing cannabis and I have read every one of them more then once. Some of them are tattered and marked up with yellow markers and post-it- notes.

Soma posted that himself a long time ago and I felt it was still valid today so I posted it here and gave him his due respect.

Attacking a 10 year old approach to making female seeds (that can still produce feminized seeds too btw.) is a little silly.

Hell do you pick on threads that are 5 years old and tell them they are nubies?
Hell no you don't so once again I will proudly stand by Soma and thank him for all the work he has done over the decades of research.

How many people still read and follow Clarks work and that is what 30 years old. Most of it has been expanded on and some of his conclusions have even been disproved too. Does that stop anyone from saying it's the best book ever written? Does that stop them from reading it or should it?
No, again it's a good place to start ones education but it's up to the person to continue on standing on the shoulders of others that have passed before him. Not to step on them; but to learn from them and continue on.

That's how it's done RESPECT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Relic2279

Just because someone of great respect says something, doesn't mean he can't be wrong.
If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them, instead of experimenting for yourself and trial/error methods, where would we be?

I think it's fantastic to question. To try new things, & go against the grain. Thats how we learn, evolve and better ourselves.

I have a degree in organic chemistry and biology from a widely respected Univeristy. Some of the things I read in published cannabis books regarding plant biology, makes me laugh.
The best route to learning, is hands on. Use everything else as guides.

While I highly respect Soma, and he may be a "legend", ... he is still human! :D

-----
Female seed company actually makes excellent hermie free female seeds (As long as you don't stress them) . Their X-Line isn't as tested as their normal lineup but I have had fantastic experiences with them.

They use stress free methods of creating all female seeds. While they don't go into detail, I only assume they would use suspended ionic silver. This is the only stress free method I'm aware of. Short of genetic manipulation in a lab.

~r

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thank you for your post. nuff said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zandor

True but why reinvent the wheel.

"If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them"
The planet would be a much better place.
It's better to learn from them and then take it to the next level. That is what many have done after that was first written up about 10 years ago. If you assumed it was NEW; that was a major Assumption on your part. It's still very valid today and many have taken that approach and moved on to other methods as technology and our knowledge has grown and expanded.

Should I take it down because it's about 10 years old?
Hell no, Soma does deserve the respect that I and many others have given him. We have learned under him sometime ago and we too have gone beyond what Soma has started.
He is still a HUGE organic grower and I personally and way more experienced in man made nutrients and I prefer them. I learned the basic from Soma about 15 years ago from his writings and then many, many emails then at web sites when he started posting on the Internet.

If anyone is interested then they should spend MONEY on the subject and read and educate yourself. Just because others have done research does not mean it's free to the mass or should be. I am not going to rip off someoneâ??s book and post everything here for FREE. I have a very large collection of papers and books on growing cannabis and I have read every one of them more then once. Some of them are tattered and marked up with yellow markers and post-it- notes.

Soma posted that himself a long time ago and I felt it was still valid today so I posted it here and gave him his due respect.

Attacking a 10 year old approach to making female seeds (that can still produce feminized seeds too btw.) is a little silly.

Hell do you pick on threads that are 5 years old and tell them they are nubies?
Hell no you don't so once again I will proudly stand by Soma and thank him for all the work he has done over the decades of research.

How many people still read and follow Clarks work and that is what 30 years old. Most of it has been expanded on and some of his conclusions have even been disproved too. Does that stop anyone from saying it's the best book ever written? Does that stop them from reading it or should it?
No, again it's a good place to start ones education but it's up to the person to continue on standing on the shoulders of others that have passed before him. Not to step on them; but to learn from them and continue on.

That's how it's done RESPECT.

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"Attacking a 10 year old approach to making female seeds (that can still produce feminized seeds too btw.) is a little silly."

to take that as an attack, is silly.

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" "If everyone just took the word of people wiser or more experienced then them"

The planet would be a much better place. "

without questioning long standing beliefs, we wouldn't have science. scientific knowledge has made the world a better place, (atleast for humans on the most part)
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It is healthy to question in a respectable way. If no one questioned anything, where would be be? we would conform and believe things that are not true. someone will tell us it is blue, when we know it is red, and we will blindly believe it. while soma is respected, he has done nothing to earn my respect. I give it freely until otherwise.