Tried Everything & Still drooping. Please Help.

I've got a bunch of plants grown from bagseed, most of which are around 1 month old. Most of the leaves are badly drooping and curling downwards, I'm growing in perlite, under a 600W HPS 20/4 and using Canna, Vega @ half strength due to some fert burn a few weeks ago. They are sitting just over a foot away from the light and have an oscilating fan for air circulation. Ph has been kept round low 6's, being watered 1-2 times a day by hand... I've tried cutting watering right back, i've flushed the plants with fresh water, increased watering, decreased nutrients, larger pot sizes (over time on seperate occasions) and have had minimal results, :confused: Help ???

I will have some pics up shortly and would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks :)

Sounds like you need to go to a bubbler. Hand watering ? You sound like you got a clue. What's youe temps ?

yeah what are your temps also different strains react differnt to heat when curling happens its a sign of not enough water and high heat depending on your curling so a pic would be good!

If you are running a 600w a little over a foot away...you need more than a oscillating fan...you need a small fan dedicated to the area between the light and the canopy. to blow away radiant heat!

It sounds like heatstress to me...curling leaves are usually attributed to a ph imbalance. ph for hydro MMJ, veggies differ. for MMJ ph at 5.4-5.9...experts call 5.8 optimum, but in flower the PHd's from Advanced Nutrients have found the more acidic/lower ph settings better.

hope this helps. Remember, every time you try something different, you stress the plants...stress = more males /hermies.

goodluck bro. lw

perlite in what?

What kind of system...watering times you tried?

all very important ...help us, help you, by giving us a bigger picture.

Ya, a combination of all this stuff is my guess. Definite heat issues, get the light 20 inches away or more if it doesn't have a cooled hood. go to a bubbler system (DWC, read about it, very simple), and ditch the perlite.

nothing wrong with perlite...

I do like hydroton the best,,and it is so reusable after cleaning and soaking in florakleen.

you'll like dwc, just take it slow, buy the right stuff, not homemade remedies, because the one real important thing in DWC is keeping the ph balanced. You don't want to constantly have to open'er up and adjust ph...believe me. that is a pain in the ass. Get some pro or GH ph up/down, and you will be glad you did

lw

Thanks peoplez, feedback much appreciated. Im looking into the bubbler system, here's a few pics with the evident problem... So far the temp's been at around 70-75. There's also some red/ purpling on some of the stems of the drooping leaves. Watering has been at bout 12 hr intervals, I find this is a an hr or 2 off perlite running dry... If anyone could reccomend a more sufficient schedul please do... Alfoil over the perlite is new as im well over algae everywhere, however am a little sceptical as to damage it could do when heated ???

I thought you said you had perlite...I see hydroton, don't I?
or, are you using 2 different mediums?

OK. 1st, I can't see piks real good. they are kind of dark, and if not they are a little small for an old blind f!@#%r, like me.

q. How big are those pots?

q. are you keeping all those plants in that tub? pik4

q. could you make me a little bigger pik4

q. did you take netpots out of a system, or are you watering them in that tub? and, If so, Are the plants just sitting in fluid all the time?

sorry for all the Q's, but I can't see everything as well as i'd like to.

yeah sorry the pics turned out a bit funny, u can see them better once u click on them. the ones in pic 4 in the big tub are all in 1/2 pint cups with good drainage. None of the plants sit in fluid for any lengs of time. The hydroton u see i forgot to add has been added to the top and bottom of the pots. 85% of the medium is perlite... ill try get some clearer pics soon. Thanx....

If you have a long bubble stone place it in bottom of that tub, put in plants, fill the extra space with hydroton, add some water and bubble them, just like that. understand?

Yeah I get u, a can get a bubbler no problem, do you think that is the answer to the drooping ? I can;t stop thinking they're still being overwatered.
I've been told over and over how bad it is to have roots submerged for any length of time... Perhaps im not understanding your bubbler....

Water roots can hang in water 24/7. It's the root ball that can't stay in water ,it likes air.

This idea is just while your are worried about the droops...

You need a system of some kind...

you see...by hand watering you are basically, wetting the medium similar to an ebb and flow. I said similar. the difference being...there is no time on the ebb...meaning the fluid runs through the netpots and all the plants have to nourish themselves on is that little bit of salt residue.

you need them In something. that provides them with oxygenated moisture, at all times when lights are on...Imho

anyway, what I was saying is put an inch of water in the bottom of that tub, an air bar that will allow you to bubble...you need an airpump for this. fill it with hydroton...set the plants gently down into h'ton at fluid level...they should do fine like that for a few days.

Oh yeah. Put your hand right at top of plants...
move light towards canopy until you feel it starting to get 'HOT' back it off 3 inches or until your hand no longer gets 'HOT' and place a dedicated fan(not oscillating) blowing right between the 2 to cool radiant heat from lamp.
then repeat prcoess of adjusting the height of your lamp.

Leave them alone and make sure the little bubble tub does not dry out...

After a while they should perk up.

One more thing I noticed after rereading this today.

get off that 20/4 photoperiod....they might just be tired...LOL really; move to 16/8, 15/9, 14/10, (choose one) I think you will like what you see in a couple of days. lw

the foil did'nt send up red flags with anyone else?foil is supposed to absorb more light than it reflects right?im not saying it is the solution to your problem but it could'nt hurt to switch to white board.(someone correct me if im wrong)

homeboy just put on the foil to battle green algae growth.

good eye, but even with the lack of good reflective material...the plants should look healthy.

by the way...buy a bottle of fountec/algaecide...2 drops a gallon for treatment. 1 drop per gallon for maintenance..to treat green algae.

I just read a note in the Indoor Bible on the subject of perlite on the top of soil to keep the algae on the perlite, so it wouldn't spread to the soil...FYI

Jorge says, "add a 1/2 inch of perlite on top of your soil to help prevent the spread of algae to the soil.

lw

Okey dokey, I've got all the planites sitting in a tub with bout 1 inch of water & a dozen aerators... How long untill results can be expected, if this is the problem ??? I've also adjusted the fan so as all air flow is directed about 1m squared between the top leaves and the light.Is there anything else I can do for them, as Im a bit worried about bad stunting.

I think the droop could be better described as curling downwards.... All the stalks are fairly strong but curling like pigs tales.....

ok, i may be missing what you have going here but let me explain a little and see if it helps.

I use DWC.
I have a bucket of water mixed with nutes and ph adjusted.
I have a hole cut into the bucket lid where the net pot sits.
The water level in the buket is about 1/4 inch below the bottom of the netpot.
I have 2 air stones (this is for a bucket that is 5 gallons, if you have bigger, you should have more air stones) that are bubbling 24/7.
I use hydroton as a medium, it is cheap and the best (in my opinion).
As the plant uses water, put more water back in. Keep the water level close to the net pot for a lot of reasons that you can learn about as you go.
Change the water/nutes every couple weeks.

And there you have it. That should create a great growing environment.

PS: In Deep Water Culture (DWC), the roots are always submerged in water, as long as the water is oxygenated, this is a good thing.

I hope this helps as i am getting confused now. LOL

that problem curling downwards is usually a toxidity...

B'pads is right about thre bubbler being great...I thought you had that.

Once and for all...Originally, didn't you have your plants in a bubbler?
Please describe the system you had going, step by step, and we will get this straightened out. don't leave anything/step out about what you built.

By the way, you don't lose anything by taking them and putting them in a tub of oxygenated water like I told you, but, we want you set-up properly, so you can grow...If it is a toxidity problem, then using the method of isolating the plants from the problem within your buckets or nutrients will become evident in a 3-4 days...It should show 1st in your newgrowth.

bachelorpads...Were you here before under another username? Just curious, Your explanations remind me of another member, that hasn't been around for awhile.

peace lw

Latewood,
No, this is my first time on this board. I have been looking for an "active" board ever since the loss of OG. I missed having a place where i could just sit and learn for hours like that. This board is the best i have been able to find since then. It is nice to have a place where people are actually communicating frequently like this. The other forums i found so far were lacking member activity big time.

Glad to have you...good thing too, need another grower to pick up some of the slack...I feel wierd when I look at the board and I am the last post all the way down...NOw I know how Znador used to feel.

I am probably going to take a little time, so, keeo uo the good work...woody

Hey cheers dudes, sorry for the no posts or reply's, lost my net connection for a while but the bubblers picked things right up, so many thanks to the people with suggestions.