PROHIBITION(bad)MARIJUANA(good)

Recently, narcotics officers raided the house of a suspected marijuana dealer in Wisconsin. The unarmed suspect, who offered no resistance, was shot to death in front of his 7-year-old son. His crime? Possession of 1 ounce of marijuana. In Oklahoma, a wheelchair-bound paraplegic who used medicinal marijuana to control muscle spasms caused by his broken back was sentenced to 10 years in prison. His crime? Possession of 2 ounces of marijuana. Another Oklahoma man is serving 75 years in prison for growing only 5 marijuana plants. (These are not misprints.)

Prohibition is the number one cause of America's exploding prison population. Many non-violent drug offenders are now serving longer prison sentences than murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals. It costs taxpayers $30,000 per year to imprison just one non-violent drug offender. Politicians are spending billions of tax dollars to build new prisons and jails so more and more non-violent drug offenders can be warehoused. Meanwhile, funding for education and other services are being strained.

Reducing drug abuse is a desirable goal, but law enforcement methods used to obtain that goal are counterproductive. Prohibition costs billions to enforce, creates a black market that generates violence and corruption, and makes criminals out of millions of productive and harmless adults. Adult use of alcohol and tobacco is accepted, but adult use of marijuana is considered criminal behavior. Why?

The main rationalization for Prohibition is to keep marijuana away from children. That rationalization does not reflect reality. Several surveys reveal that teenagers can obtain marijuana easier than they can obtain the legal drugs of beer or wine. In Holland, where sale of marijuana to adults is openly accepted, the percentage of teenagers using marijuana is less than half that of American teenagers. Because America's marijuana trade is totally unregulated, marijuana dealers are on the streets selling to anybody--especially teenagers. Regulating marijuana like wine would put street dealers out of business, would make marijuana dealers pay taxes, and would restrict sales to adults only. Prohibition does not make it difficult for teenagers to obtain marijuana. Tougher marijuana laws have not reduced marijuana use. Marijuana use has increased every single year since 1991.

In 1937 (the last year that marijuana was legal) only 100,000 Americans used marijuana. Now that marijuana is illegal, 30 million Americans use marijuana, and marijuana is easily available to anybody who wants it--including children and prison inmates. 600,000 Americans are arrested for marijuana violations every year and thousands of them are sent to jail or prison, where many of them can still obtain drugs. The government can't even keep drugs out of its own prisons, yet the politicians keep telling us they can rid the entire nation of marijuana by spending more tax dollars. The government now spends $15 billion every year (a 1,500% increase since 1980) waging a war on marijuana smokers--a war that has lasted 60 years and is impossible to win. Another $5 billion per year is lost in tax revenue that could be generated if marijuana was regulated and taxed like wine.

For all practical purposes, Marijuana Prohibition is a $15-billion-per-year government subsidy for drug traffickers, organized crime, and street dealers. Because the government prohibits well-regulated liquor stores from selling marijuana, the government ensures that organized crime and street dealers will flourish. Prohibition escalates violence and corruption as mobsters, street gangs, and thugs fight for control of the marijuana trade. Just as Alcohol Prohibition escalated violence and corruption during the 1920s, Marijuana Prohibition does the same today.

Once all the facts are known, it becomes clear that America's marijuana laws need reform. This issue must be openly debated using only the facts. Groundless claims, meaningless statistics, and exaggerated scare stories that have been peddled by politicians and prohibitionists for the last 60 years must be rejected.



be good, peace and many kudos

Keep on torching the wool off of everyones' eyes, and let the light of truth rush in!

This would be a really good article if only you had sources to proove your points.

Ok,Here's a source for you...My girlfriend spent 2-1/2 years in a Federal Prison,and is still dealing with 3-1/2 years parole for posseion with intent to distrubite...she is 5'1" 100 lbs, a Very quiet, Peaceful Deadhead,Very active in the need to change these arcaic laws,and VERY firm in her beliefs!!!( has always been willing to risk her freedom to help thoes who NEED medical MJ) This pissed off the system,Oh no we can't have Peaceable poeple telling the truth abuot weed!! Oh Hell NO!! and while she was in we found that 71% of Feddy inmates are there for MINOR drug crimes!! most people who get incarcerated on a federal level also lose their homes,cars,savings, ( I'm Here to let you know that this cost us $80,000 in lost home,cars,savings,lawyer's fees) job oppertunitys, the abilty to vote in some states, the right ot hold public office, passport ect. a least on a state level one can ask for expongment of ones records and get your rights back!! Not if you spend federal time!!!

Now for the rest of her life every she's stopped in her car,apply's for a job(at least one that pay's enough to live on)has ANY dealings with state officals,Goes to register her car,or anything having to do with the system she's gonna get run thru the mill!Hell her car insurince was cancelled cuz of this!! WHY?? Cuz she got caught with weed in her car in another state other than the one it was registerd in!!

To Quote Bugsy..."Prohibition is the number one cause of America's exploding prison population. Many non-violent drug offenders are now serving longer prison sentences than murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals. It costs taxpayers $30,000 per year to imprison just one non-violent drug offender. Politicians are spending billions of tax dollars to build new prisons and jails so more and more non-violent drug offenders can be warehoused. Meanwhile, funding for education and other services are being strained."

HE'S RIGHT!!!! AND THEIR TARGETING US!!!! Its time to put aside our political Squabbling and start to vote like a GROUP of pot smokers...It won't make a rat's ass if we ALL are in jail!!!! Its time to stop the Insanity!!!

Sorry about the rant...jus a sore spot with me,Thanks for puttin up with me!

If you want to know why mmj is still illegal look at the negativity and hate spewed, by people that smoke pot, since the 60's. Ever read these forums? Ever been to a "pot rally?" It's clear that prohibition is a failure but that's not going to convince the anti-pot people to change their mind if they see the way many "stoners" (often minors) represent themselves and therefore mj. They drive away the supporters, voters and politicians we need to convert, thus cementing their perceptions of people that smoke mj even for medical purposes.

Looking in the mirror is often the hardest thing for some people to do. Personal responsibility is a bitch, isn't it? ;)

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Originally Posted by Buggsy

For all practical purposes, Marijuana Prohibition is a $15-billion-per-year government subsidy for drug traffickers, organized crime, and street dealers. Because the government prohibits well-regulated liquor stores from selling marijuana, the government ensures that organized crime and street dealers will flourish. Prohibition escalates violence and corruption as mobsters, street gangs, and thugs fight for control of the marijuana trade. Just as Alcohol Prohibition escalated violence and corruption during the 1920s, Marijuana Prohibition does the same today.

Once all the facts are known, it becomes clear that America's marijuana laws need reform.

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The only way it's ever going to be legal is when there are virtually no more dealers, no more profits attracting organized crime. As long as there is serious money to be made it will continue to be outrageously expensive and illegal.

The only way to defeat this nightmare is to Overgrow and share your surplus. Undercut the dealers. Make them useless. Remove the profit.

Pipe dream?

Probably.:sadcrying

Undercutting the dealer just makes you the dealer with a lower price. Growing your own, however cuts out the dealer in your personal case. The best way to get rid of the dealer, is to reschedule and decriminalize for responsible adults but, alas, there's the rub. It might just be a pipe dream. :(

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

Undercutting the dealer just makes you the dealer with a lower price. :(

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you say that like it's a bad thing.
have to start somewhere.
sometimes have to start small and let it snowball.

Then your problem isn't "dealers" it's just the ones that are more successful than you. *You* were the one talking about getting rid of dealers by undercutting them. Do you have more than 2 faces? If getting rid of dealers is good then being a dealer is bad. You cant have it both ways. Pick a side. For example, I think they should severely increase the penalties for dealing to minors.

you have to start somewhere at sometime. the journey begins with the first step. right now we have dealers charging too much. so the next step is to have dealers charging less & less. ah, and it begins with the growers. now sure, growers could Overgrow and give away their surplus and those who recieve it could charge as high as they please, but if more and more growers Overgrow and give away their surplus then the high prices won't survive.

example: in 1981, in San Jose, Cali, there was a glut of blonde lebanese. before the glut it was 10 bucks a gram, 25 for an 1/8th. during the glut the price went down to 3 bucks a gram and 10 bucks an 1/8th. the dealers were fronting the stuff left & right to get rid of the over-supply.

similar situations have happened from time to time with an over abundance of mexican or thai weed---mass produced commercial grade weed.

someday it will happen with the dank---but everything begins in the Now.

No, you don't have to start dealing, that's just what dealers tell themselves. While it's true, that more growers = less dealers, there will always be those that don't want to or cant grow for any number of reasons. You'll never permanently reduce prices on popular black market items. If you want real price reduction it starts with rescheduling and getting rid of the backmarket. Alas, we're back to the pipe dream...

The price of pot is skyrocketing like gas prices are. Except for, shortly after, 9-11-01, prices have gone up more for stamps.

I guess, that's the benefits of a five-year dealer. I miss Ghost.

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

If you want real price reduction it starts with rescheduling and getting rid of the backmarket. Alas, we're back to the pipe dream...

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we are eager to hear how you propose to activate the rescheduling and ridding the world of the black market.

it's probable that you don't have a clue.

therefore, let's begin Overgrowing and see what happens. at least that's in our control.

you Overgrow and I'll Overgrow and we'll give our surplus away for free to our friends. at least this will make a dent in the wallets of our local dealers.

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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs

The price of pot is skyrocketing like gas prices are. Except for, shortly after, 9-11-01, prices have gone up more for stamps.

I guess, that's the benefits of a five-year dealer. I miss Ghost.

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Holy Cow, I meant, "The price of pot ISN'T skyrocketing..."

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Originally Posted by Brother Schenker

we are eager to hear how you propose to activate the rescheduling and ridding the world of the black market.

it's probable that you don't have a clue.

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I used to believe it might happen but in order for it to work, there'd have to be a fundamental shift in thinking and reasoning and it's just not likely to happen. There are many smokers and activists that drive away the support we need to reschedule. Minors are just one example, but it's an important one. Responsible use means adults only, and anyone proposing otherwise is hurting the cause, unless you disagree with NORML on that, I don't. Also, look at the hate and vile screeds posted here, that does nothing to win hearts and minds, so to speak. In fact, it's just another example of how a lot of smokers are our own worst enemy.

You ask what *I* would do here?
1) Ban minors
2) Close all non-mj forums
3) Delete all hate threads
4) Require civil, respectful debate, not hate spews.

Additionally, in general:
5) All smokers would stop selling/giving/helping/enabling minors, making it known that mj is for adults only. It would show that smokers are responsible users, not all dealers, addicts and potheads.
6) Pot/mmj rallies would be about facts, not spewing hate and driving away potential supporters.
7) A positive, national, ad campaign that shows patients as normal everyday people, not rasta/spicoli/addict/pothead/stoner stereotypes.


As for clue, I see you have none... *gets out the clue-bat* :rolleyes:

What would YOU do? Give a little surplus away? Good plan...growers with friends have been doing that forever.

Hope that helps...

For those who look at Marijuana legalization as something that would be a simple and effective solution, feel free to question me as to why you couldn't possibly be more wrong, undereducated, and uninformed.

The most simple way I can think of explaining it, is to think of it as something that, while shouldn't be completely illegal, can never be completely legal at the same time, and then you can understand the difficulty of determining the future legal status of Marijuana.

This is why the government looks at "legalize marijuana" campaigns as a joke, and will never even consider them..

Reschedule Marijuana, k thx bye.

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

What would YOU do? Give a little surplus away? Good plan...growers with friends have been doing that forever.

Hope that helps...

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You're pretty hostile & condescending. Talk about hateful vibes. But I'm sure you can't help it.

I don't like your prejudice against minors. When did you start smoking pot?
Only after you got ill as an adult?

I started at 15 and I'll be goddamned if I'm gonna act like a hypocrite and morally support prejudice towards teen tokers. Will I supply them with weed? No. Would I vote for legalization if it meant that no one under 18 would be allowed to smoke it? Yes, but I know they'd still be able to score it as I did at 15 when it was illegal.

What don't you understand about Overgrowing?
Give it away for free, the more people who do so, the less money the dealers will make, the less money going into organized crime and the politicians they own & grease the palms of so as to keep the War on Pot going.

Let's be sensible, eh?
Keep it simple.
Keep the faith.

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Originally Posted by Brother Schenker

You're pretty hostile & condescending. Talk about hateful vibes. But I'm sure you can't help it.

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Originally Posted by Brother Schenker

it's probable that you don't have a clue.

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You're another retarded hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Do you like NORML's "prejudice" against minors? http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3417

So, you'd vote against legalization fo rminors and you'd not sell to minors but you're not against them smoking because you did and you think you're not a hypocrite? See above...

You deluded fool. Pull your head out of your ass, you're living in a fantasy world, grow up. The only way to have anything close to what you're imagining is to begin with rescheduling and you're part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

You're another retarded hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Do you like NORML's "prejudice" against minors? http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3417

So, you'd vote against legalization fo rminors and you'd not sell to minors but you're not against them smoking because you did and you think you're not a hypocrite? See above...

You deluded fool. Pull your head out of your ass, you're living in a fantasy world, grow up. The only way to have anything close to what you're imagining is to begin with rescheduling and you're part of the problem.

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Ah friend, more hostility? You must be feeling very bad. Sorry to hear it.

Perhaps you should re-read the post and you will see that I said I would vote for legalization even if it included prohibition for minors as a way to get the law passed because I know they'll still be able to score. And when they scored they'd be paying a helluva lot less than they/we are paying these days.

Are you a cop?

You're still a hypocrite and your retarded "are you a cop" line just proves that you have nothing. How many pathetic retarded teenagers try that "are you a cop" crap with anyone that isn't a lemming like you? Pathetic. What's next, are you going to insult my mother, attack my sexuality, call me a racist name? Grow the fuck up, punk. It's idiots like you that keep mj illegal by enforcing the pothead stereotype. Congratulations, you're a fuck up! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by iamapatient

You're still a hypocrite and your retarded "are you a cop" line just proves that you have nothing. How many pathetic retarded teenagers try that "are you a cop" crap with anyone that isn't a lemming like you? Pathetic. What's next, are you going to insult my mother, attack my sexuality, call me a racist name? Grow the fuck up, punk. It's idiots like you that keep mj illegal by enforcing the pothead stereotype. Congratulations, you're a fuck up! :rolleyes:

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Cops find it hard to lie.
I notice you've avoided answering the question.

Me thinks you protest too much, Leo.;)

Pride has no way of supporting his veiws and should seriously shut the fuck up!!!

I would advise anyone reading this message to either block or not friend Pride.