Clones seem stuck in neutral ....

OK, first time I've taken cuttings for clones ... variety I am growing is known for easy cloning ... cut, dipped in water, and rooting solution, stuck into potting soil, misted, etc ... clone took almost immediately, no problems whatsoever.... BUT ... its almost 3 weeks now, and the plants still 'look' excellent , the picture of health ... but still SMALL ... its like Im trying to grow bonzai pot ... I assumed the plant is busy with a root system, but after this long, shouldn't it be growing ?? ... :confused:

What lights are you running over them?

Any pics possible?

Hmmm... strange... I know rooting in soil is slow... but... I don't know...

1 type of light (full service florsents cool white)
2 distance to leaf (2-3 inches
3 medium dirt, perlite/vermiculite, etc (p/V)50/50,, 25/75)
4 ph and ppm of ferts (600-1000 ppm over background)
5 ambiant temp(80-90 d.f)
6 air movement (leaves moving)
7 fert sequence if hydro (every 4 hr for 20 min)
Well that how to do it
Flush the hell out of them it also may be a fert lock up , and use drinking water for the next few days.
Thats if I was guessing how to do it.:dance: :dance: :dance:

I can absolutely say that all is being done correctly here ... they look fine ,,, just not gaining size, ... :confused: same situation with a couple more that I have outdoors, also ... the clones were taken just a few days before switching to flower stage, all females, etc. ... didnt seem to suffer any transplant shock, or anything ... and this strain is well-known for its ease in cloning (Cinderella 99 x Northern Lights) ... :smokin:

I'd wait another week. Bet they take off.

I hope so, its been like 3 weeks ... tiny new leaves are appearing, but almost need a magnifying glass to see them ... never saw this before, but this is my first clone attempt ... did it mostly out of boredom ... :smokin:

I've always had that problem. I've heard it could take up to six weeks to come out of shock. Better stand back when they do. Even if it does take a month it's still faster than seeds.

I think a lot has to do with the age of the mother and where the clones wher taken from. Hold on. Here it is. If it is from the youngest growths a clone could have roots ready for transplant in 14 days. Older clippings can take up to 28 days.

OK, I think you have something there ... I didn't know it normally takes awhile ... I just assumed, if the clone didnt die soon after transplanting, then it started growing immediately ... plus, I took the clones from branches higher up on the mother plant ... sounds like it should start taking off in another week, or so ... glad I didn't throw them out ... :D

Your clones are also as old as the mother.

Ga Grown

Clones as old as the muther, WTF. Yes till the new stem and leaves start. If that were the case I have 8 year old clones.
Perlite/vermiculite clones take about a week to come up with good roots. A air cloner about 3 days. Bubbler cloner about the same.
The groth of clones is a strain base , a ferts, air/ water, time elements.
IN the grow cycle of clones and grow sequence after the first week it a even groth rate.
Suggest you test your ph and air flow, also use antiwilt on the leaves, this helps the losses from the leaves.
Note the best groth is 18 hrs a day growing time. Plants need the change to dark, its part of there life cycle. After a couple hundred test its well proven.

That is the case! They are as old as the mother! Taking cuttings from an establihed mother at any age,constitutes the age of the clone! Even though you just cut it!

Ga Grown

I think the dna of the strain , is maintained with the cutting. But as the clone is cloned, the enviorment will change the make up of the clone to match.
Thus a clone changes to the current conditions. A desert strain grown in a high rh and cooler temps , does not need the extra resin to make the plant servive in wetter and cooler temp.
I have grown Hawiian strain for 10 years before it went down hill , From wowie wowie to woops.
Growing and cloning a high temp and low rh , required a little work even the its HIgh High went to flat land.
Trouble with seeds there so many piss poor , validated strains.
Breeding for stablizied seed, not just knocking up plants. I would guess it takes about 3-10 years to get a stablized strain and 20-100 test to prove it.
But this has been proven over the last 60 years so not much has changed.

Your right! I'm saying the Mother is a certain age! Right? If you take a cutting from the mother of a pure strain,you will have a plant just like the mother and the same age! Until you clone a clone! Then it goes south! Downhill from there! So take clones from a pure mother and not from a clone taken from a clone.You stay consistant potency,with out decrease!

Ga Grown

I have done it both ways, as a plant is in a enviorment it aclimates to its conditions.
The desert strains will change there way of growing over the years. I think its on going from the muther 1,,to muther/clones/clones.
As the dna is the same, the timming per rh% and Temps, lighting. All have a condition to the final bud.
This seemed to work out on two strains. White Widow , Hawiian ??. And one more test under way.
Do to the fact it takes about 3-5 crops to maximize the strains output.
Federal plant counts prohibit extra plants. So I keep back up and test strains to a min.
I have even made test of differnt , so far it complys to what large growers come up with.
strain, strain, good growing practices.

There you go! DNA is the same! I told you! You answered ya own question! DNA Is on the decline if taken from a clone and not a mother!

Ga Grown

I have the same problem but with the a seedling...bad huh?

It's not the same thing as a clone until it's a mother or a female! You just don't know at that stage!

Ga Grown

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Originally Posted by GaGrown

There you go! DNA is the same! I told you! You answered ya own question! DNA Is on the decline if taken from a clone and not a mother!

Ga Grown

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Where did you hear this? I have taken a clone of a clone - of a clone! and everything is the same as the original mother. Granted the mom is only ~ 4 years old or so.. but its the first I have heard of the DNA "degrading" automagically.

As long as common sense is used and inferior clones (read: weaker, not as strong growth, mutated) are discarded, there should be no discernable degradation. Think about Granny Smith apples - all of them (ALL of them, everywhere...) basically come from the original granny smith apple tree (I believe originally from australia, from.. you guessed it - Granny Smiths garden). Occasionally a granny smith apple tree will throw out an odd fruit, colored or sweeter - this would not be the tree to clone from.

Actually most any stabilized apple varieties are from clones....

gagrown,i suggerst you do some reading on the clone subject.i am on my 5th cycle of clones and there is no signs of degradation in potency.i know of other growers that are even further.also this subject is coverd in many articles.do some reading before making giving out advice like that.

I got a couple clones that just took forever. in 2 weeks they were half the size of everything else. I would have killed them but they looked very healthy. 4 weeks into flowering they were only about 1/4 smaller. By the end they were nearly as big. Ive heard too shock can do that. But if you clone correctly from a strong vigorous mother that hasnt been cloned much (more on that in a sec) then you shouldn't have to wait so long. 3 weeks into veg with a clone, I was getting an inch a day.

Nah, as for the clone of a clone. Once again, my disclaimer of the fact that I am by no means a very experienced grower. But I have always been under the impression that it is never good to clone a clone of a clone of a clone. 3-4 generations, no more. Ive been around a few operations that had a significent amount of plants over quite a few cycles. Obviously this is only one test, and there are tons of other factors, and it wasnt a potency difference, it was the likelihood of a mutation or a weird plant. First 2 cycles, nothing ary. 3rd cycle, 2 plants with slightly weird leaves and a little stunted growth. Good bud. 4th and 5th cycle, 4 plants exhibiting strange growth. I didnt see 6th cycle but Im told it was 4 again. Just seems odd there was nothing the first 2 times.

I have re-mothered (taken a clone of a clone) one plant several times a year since 1992. No sign of fading yet.

2000 years and we may see a change. Maybe.

The fact that each plant has it's own life cycle, and that each cutting may be at a different stage in that cycle may be the cause of the mutations. That and ferts and all the normal stuff.

As I understand it a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone is an EXACT copy of the first plant.

No?

"Clone" means exact copy. It's not like a xerox copy machine that gets worse if you copy a copy. DNA is like a file on your computer. It's all ones and zeros, and that can never change, no matter how many times you copy it.

I have cloned clones of clones of clones of.... with no change in the plant. I have also read many times that people have continued to take clones of clones for many years and nothing undesirable happened.

damn ! ... this thread is still going ?? ... :D ... I started smoking those clones more than a month ago ... :dance: ... they wuz good, too ..... :stoned:

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Originally Posted by the image reaper

I can absolutely say that all is being done correctly here ... they look fine ,,, just not gaining size, ... :confused: same situation with a couple more that I have outdoors, also ... the clones were taken just a few days before switching to flower stage, all females, etc. ... didnt seem to suffer any transplant shock, or anything ... and this strain is well-known for its ease in cloning (Cinderella 99 x Northern Lights) ... :smokin:

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keep in mind the point is not to make your clones huge it is to sustain life. Once the roots are firmly rooted, it is time to transplant. Once you transplant they will take off hopefully. THAT is the time to look for size.

SOO A CLONE IS WHAT AGAIN?? THE SAME AGE AS WHO??LMMFAO!!! J/K!! Just thought I would ask LMAFO!!!

yes a clone has the same genetic age as the mother and proof of this is the sea of green method... you cant flower a seed untill its mature.. but a clone has the same genetic age of the mother hence that is why you can flower them right after they take root...

I think, graphs of the granny Smith apple is about 1865 , that makes it old enough for petrified (sp) apples. The root stock for roses are well over 200 year old. A friend has a rose thats over 65 years old, from root stock.