Well, have you?
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Well, have you?
When I was a child I did, until I realized that God either doesn't exist or doesn't care.
I did when I was little too, but then I realized God doesn't exist, and that prayer would be pointless even if he did.
“PRAY, v.
To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.” —Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
Honestly, the only times I prayed was when my mother or my grandmother made me... Even when I went to church as a kid, while everyone else would be praying, I'd just pretend and think about something else...
You were thinking of all the crafty ways you could escape the church MacGuyver style weren't you? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by F L E S H
Well, I could have taken the hymn book, fold it up, merge it with the prayer book, sprinkle some holy water, mix it with the host to make some glue, and I probably could have done something with the candle wax.....
:dance:
i pray 2 God every single nite...he is the only 1 that listin,s...this is my beliefe ,this the way i was raised...now i have even more 2 pray 4>>>all of u
Well, you know, you don't have to do everything the way you were raised. Just because your parents told you prayer works doesn't mean it does. The idea is laughably absurd. Even if there is a God, do you think you can communicate new information to him or something? Do you think you can somehow change his perfect all-knowing mind by telling him your thoughts, which he's already familiar with because he's monitoring all your thoughts? By the way, how creepy must it be to actually believe there's somebody who knows what all your thoughts are all the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by puffpuffand away
yes, used to more, but still do.
i stopped praying as much when i noticed it didnt make a difference how much i prayed, god didnt do anything. for the longest time i just simply passed it off as god didnt care, then i decided god didnt exist, because it would simply be unholy not to care about the situation down here, then after more research i went back to god not caring, which later turned to realizing god CANT do anything right now, and has to let things play out, so to speak, so as to either teach us a lesson, or someone/thing else.
Not everyone has to rebel.
I was raised with no one to rebel against. My parents split apart before I finished High School (though, this has nothing to do with the previous statement).
If it eases you, pray, God Damn it.
edit: Well, I rebelled against my teachers. But, I felt like I had them, already, nine or seven years before, as my Brother and Sister had them.
bump
Thanks for the gesture, puff, but god doesn't like me very much. The last time someone prayed on my behalf they were forced to stand in the 30 items or less lane at Wal Mart for eternity....Quote:
Originally Posted by puffpuffand away
come on, now. Simple poll question. It's not Cannabis-like for us to fight over things any of us can't prove :D Life is good ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
@Poll question.
Yes, I have. And I do.
hah I've been in a Catholic enviroment my entire life (school, football, home, family) and it seems weird for someone to not pray to God...I dunno, that's just me
Yeah when I was a kid, but never with any actual meaning or emotion. Just prayed because that's what my family did and what I was supposed to do..
Daily, almost hourly. I rely on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by graymatter
Well, Thanksss Gray! no 0ne told me! I didn't hear about this. Here I 've been eating out for the last Three Weeks!! The Grocery lines..I can't imagine.......Wait...I.I.I"ll.....ggrrooww a ggaarrddeenn. yeah. A Garden....Hey, The Garden Knowm. Oh this is'nt so bad. The Knowm will know what to do. I'll bring my van, I can sleep in it ~ down by the river. It will be swell.
We Love You
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I stand outside, smoking a cigarette, to avoid the lines. I guess, I can pray for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by graymatter
It's weird. I know you're type, all so well. In my city, there was two high schools; the city's and Bishop Scully. After 9th grade, Bishop Scully closed, and by the time I graduated, more than half of my "inner-circle" of friends, were raised through the Catholic system.Quote:
Originally Posted by da5mikeY
From the time I was little 'til I was confirmed, I was enrolled in an after-school Catholic Confirmation course at St. Mary's Church/School. I went to public schools my whole life. One of my best friends' confirmation name was Reggie, and, 15 or 16 years later, I meet a man named Reggie who gets me "the best outdoor grown stuff", according to a site I found off of Cannabis.com.
My confirmation name is Anton. After Anton Stasny, formerly of the Quebec Nordiques.
I pray but not to God as much to any divine that will listen
Quote:
Originally Posted by puffpuffand away
Right on BRO... that is firm. i always trip out how jehovas witness are VERY religous even when it comes to talking about god they are sooo convinced.. they are solid in their beliefs and u can only respect that.
I pray to God every day. Prayer is an invitation by God to come into His presence. That is the real purpose of prayer. There really is no greater joy than to be in the Divine presence of the Living God.
Try prayer for 30 days. Suspend your disbelief. If not fully satisfied, simply return your prayer for a full refund.
Prayer is begging - to something, or somebody, that is just a figment of your imagination.
I'm not fighting. I'm just presenting my point of view, backed by logical arguments, that prayer could not possibly have the slightest impact on the universe even if a god/gods existed. Think about it for a second. If there is such thing as a being which knows all your thoughts, all your desires, and everything there is to know about the past, present and future, what does prayer accomplish? What is the point of communicating anything to a perfect intelligence which already knows everything? You can't give a god any new information, or change a god's mind about anything, or get a god to change its already-formulated plans as to what the future will contain. Anyone who gives the subject five minutes of rational thought will come to the conclusion that prayer is simply a waste of time, whether the universe is godless or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nylo
Forget rationality. There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually. You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything. Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology. You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other. I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject. Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS. The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page. It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude. Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
Start respecting your self. Your smarter than this.
Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.
Bear with me for a moment...I challenge you to actually read this post. :thumbsup:
I think this makes alot of sense. There are always three sides to the story, if not more, and the truth is always found somewhere in between all sides. I tend to agree with the physicalists on this one because I have a hard time accepting anything with does not seem scientific in nature or seem to even have a logical way of proving its disputed existence; however, I will also admit that Braddoghas an extremely valid point.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. KRISHNAMURTI
Now don't get me wrong folks...I like, actually, I LOVE to argue just as much as the next guy...but when it comes to something like prayer...I mean, if it makes people feel better, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Braddog10
I don't pray very much nowadays but I used to everynight. :smokin:
No! Rationality is the only way to make sense of the world. If we're just going to throw it out the window, we can't come to know anything. We have to apply logic to our observations about the universe if we're going to get anywhere in our understanding of how things work.Quote:
Originally Posted by braddog10
Right...what's your point? Everybody is ignorant about the vast majority of information stored in the universe. Just because I don't know everything there is to know doesn't mean I can't know anything.Quote:
There is a tremendous amount of which you are uninformed, ill informed, Ignorant actually.
What are you talking about? Dominion mandate?Quote:
You also do not understand the sweeping structure that the dominion mandate established. To argue your points here as I have seen, Your embarrassing your self........
Not really. I try to back my arguments up with logic and reason. I am always willing to change my mind about something. Show me where I'm wrong and I'll happily agree with you.Quote:
I am not trying to be rude,..But, it's just not a smooth issue. There is very little difference between you and some evangelist out there with his bull horn and his propaganda plastered all over everything.
Atheism is not a religion. It is nothing more than the lack of a belief in gods. A religion is a structured belief system about the supernatural. If atheism is a religion, then clear is a color.Quote:
Your just preaching your own religious ideology, in no better fashion than some judgemental religious hypocrite. The two of you are two peas in the same pod, the Christian religious hypocrite at one end and you the aetheist religious hypocrite. at the other. Preaching your own religious ideology.
Who are you to say what I know and don't know? Obviously I haven't had the time to read the holy scriptures of every religion on the planet, but I do spend a lot of time reading the Bible, the Qur'an, etc. In fact, that's what I did for much of my afternoon yesterday. I am trying to find out to the best of my abilities what these scriptures are teaching. I just don't see any good reason to believe that any of these books are true regarding claims of the supernatural.Quote:
You know blessed little about scripture, to claim that it says one thing or the other.
What is this Dominion Mandate? Is it a holy scripture that has some evidence to back it up? If so, please show me the evidence. If it is convincing enough, I'll be delighted to believe whatever it says.Quote:
I would suggest you begin by studying the Dominion Mandate, and don't give me the crap from your spin doctors, on the subject.
If what I am saying is bullshit (I thought you were trying not to be rude), then please, show me the flaws in my logic and I will be more than happy to correct them. I am always trying to correct the flaws in my knowledge, so as to become a wiser person.Quote:
Sorry, I have gotten a bit weary of your BS.
My page? Huh? I'm just trying to uphold my opinions, because I believe my opinions to be correct. That's what makes them my opinions. If my opinions are wrong, tell me why they are wrong. Don't just say "you're wrong because you think you're so right". Of course I think I'm right. But if I'm wrong about something, I want to know what that something is and what the truth is. I'm always glad to have somebody prove me wrong so I can become smarter.Quote:
The religious self righteousness you have plastered all over your page.
If you don't have anything substantive to say about my opinions, why are you even talking? Don't just attack me for being "arrogant" and "pathetic". If you don't like my point of view, show me why my point of view is incorrect already!Quote:
It's mocking, rude, ... You may understand...but you mirror the religious hypocrites, that plaster their critical judgemental views. Do you despise religious hypocrites? Check your self out, Many many things come back as self hate>>> Deal with it...the comparison is poor ........ I don't know any religious christian, that displays their mean correctness in such an arrogant way as you and others. It's pathetic dude.
If you don't like reading people's arguments for why their opinions are correct, then don't read what they have to write. But if you actually have something to say about those opinions, go right ahead. Fruitful debate is how we expand human knowledge. Just shutting up and keeping all our opinions to ourselves isn't going to get us anywhere, and neither is all this childish name-calling of yours.
You haven't even addressed my line of reasoning for why I think prayer can't possibly do anything. If you think I'm wrong about that, just tell me why. Tell me how prayer could possibly do anything if there's a God who already knows everything there is to know, and I'll be glad to retract my earlier statements. You seem to think that I'm fixated in some sort of dogmatic ideology. I'm not. I just found a really good logical argument against prayer, and no counter-argument has yet convinced me that it doesn't hold.
I don't have a car.Quote:
Wash your car... Your bumper stickers also just minimize you further.
Why do you think I'm not respecting myself?Quote:
Start respecting your self.
I'm smarter than what? Myself?Quote:
Your smarter than this.
I don't see what's wrong with mocking silly ideas that have no logic or evidence to back them up. Mockery, combined with a little logic, can be a powerful tool for helping others to critically think about things we take for granted in this society.Quote:
Breuk, both of you Religious Hypocrites, mocking judgemental, the worst don't come close to you two.
When you "forget rationality", as you urged me to do at the beginning of your post, you have nothing to fall back on except blind faith, beliefs held because of tradition, authority, wild speculation, or wishful thinking. I don't want to think like that. I want to actually look at the world and understand how it works as best as I can. In my quest for knowledge about the universe, I have not found one good logical argument, or one good observation, which would lead me to believe that prayer could possibly do anything. And until someone does, I won't believe it. I can't believe it. For the same reason that I can't just close my eyes and say "I believe in unicorns" and really mean it. I need to be shown why something is true, especially if it conflicts with my own common sense and what I observe. All you're offering is an ad hominem attack on me because apparently you don't like the idea that I think my own opinions are correct, or maybe you don't like the idea that I'm basing my opinions on rationality. What do you want me to do, say that my opinions are wrong? Reject logical thinking altogether?
Because it encourages people to not actually do something about their problems. If you think God will take care of things for you, why bother doing anything yourself? To take an extreme example, Christian Scientists do not believe in medicine; they believe, however, that prayer can heal people. That can be a very damaging belief. Besides that, prayer and other beliefs in supernatural/paranormal claims encourage sloppy thinking and a blatant disregard for rationalism and the scientific method. Am I going to stop anybody from praying? Of course not. But I don't see what's wrong with informing someone when they're doing something very silly and illogical, like praying to a God who supposedly knows all your thoughts anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binzhoubum
Howdy cannabis,Quote:
Originally Posted by cannabis campbell
Every single day,at the beginning of the day and when I go to bed at night. I pray throughout the day,for those in need and for those who need protection,I pray for many of our members here and I pray when I hear an Amber Alert on the tv,I even pray for Peace..but I'm prudent enough to know-that I must prepare for war,as well.
After reading the replies to yer question,in this thread,it's apparent that there's alot of praying to be done for the folks here..it's so sad to see so many who've lost touch with their souls and with God. Yet,increasing numbers of folks,are trying to git in touch with their spirituality..how can one be spiritual -- but deny their Creator and Saviour ?
How can one toke marijuana and not realize,that only a loving God,is capable of creating a plant that can help so many different folks with so many different needs ?
Thanx to the advent of modern liberalism,folks have become cynical,jaded and pessimistic..those in such a state,are gonna be out of touch with their souls and God,I reckon.
Have a good one ! :stoned: :)
Your rationale is refreshing Oneironaut and sorely needed.
Growing up in Church I eventually came to the conclusion that since the conversation was one-sided in prayer, what was the use of begging God for things, (which is pretty much all prayer consisted of, besides the grandiose, ornate ones intended for the congregation to hear). God is going to do what he's going to do and I'm in no position to change his mind or talk him out of it.
But your rationality about such matters, which would apply so perfectly to machines, physics, computers and such, gets muddled up in the human equasion. Science is saying now that our psyches are hardwired for religion and it's something that's probably not going to go away. From a scientific/Darwinian perspective it must have some value as a survival mechanism or it would have passed out of existence in the natural order of things.
The human psyche is very fragile. (read a few posts on here if you desire some proof of that fact) It craves stability and yearns for some kind of hope. I've discovered through experience that the secret to happiness is being able to trust the 'Universe'.--God's in his heaven and all is well." This may or may not be so, but in the midst of all this maddness the world throws at us, some how, in some form we need that psychological anchor to hold on to just to keep on keepin' on.
Even the most logical thinkers/skeptics cling to something-science, the this-therefore-that of philosophy, the church of academics-to the point of zealously and dogmatically defending their beliefs with a foaming lather. Just check out the good professor in the link to 'Root of All Evil' on another thread. He's not trying to investigate or learn, he's out to pick a fight-to defend his own faith.
So, yes I would say prayer has it's place-if for nothing else as an emotional and pyschological safety valve in a hostile and uncertain universe.
And who knows, maybe God is listening--(oh, for those of you who actually hear him talking back, ask him a question for me- 'why nipples on men?')
Howdy Hamlet,
So when God didn't talk back to you,when you prayed as a kid,that's proof to you,that He doesn't exist ? lol
You can't prove that God doesn't exist,any more than I'll be able to prove to you,that He does..till He calls us both Home to the Other Side,and you find out for yer own self.
I do hope,that you consider yerself to be at least,higher on the scale of things,than a mere animal..do you ? Or do ya believe that Humans are no better than animals ? Like the folks at PETA believe ?
Have a good one ...
Proof that he doesn't exist? naaa... but if you start adding things up for yourself, (even though you're threatened with hellfire for doing so), you begin to realize that the stories the priest in the funny clothes is telling ya doesn't pan out with what obviously seem to be facts in the real world.
You say to yourself 'now wait a minute', the only input I'm getting on the God stuff is from some group or institution who wants to control things. They demand that I 'believe' every word, undisputed or I'm going to fry like a fritter. Now why would God, or they, want me to believe that on just blind faith? What could possibly be the motives for the folks in charge to want me to do that?
As far as 'higher than the animals'? Nope, we're smarter but one look at the newspaper and I would put my Scotty dog's character and integrity head and shoulders above 90% of the human population on earth. (including my own) If fact, it's this kind of arrogance of the human beasty that has been used for the most atrocious acts in human history. It was 'Manifest Destiny' ordained that justified us slaughtering our way across America. Black skin was the mark of Cain so it was okay to inslave such lower forms of life. etc, etc...
Yup, yup...I'm just a lowly monkey like the rest of you and my answers aren't any better than anyone elses. I don't know who the folks at PETA are but it seems to me they're at least willing to swallow some of that good ol' fashion humility and accept a probable truth in the scheme of things. Wait a minute! humility-isn't that something Jesus taught as a fundamental to the beginning of enlightenment? hhmm, never mind...most people don't bother practicing the 'red letter' parts anyway.
I have too much to do today, I can't hang out.
One thing is obvious. We are all respectively passionate toward our views.
I just had to quickly check things out..........I have to laugh... this is tooo much fun. You guys...have a nice day. ...Thanks for catchin up Torog
Agreed. :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
You raise some good questions, oneironaut. But, I haven't intentionally ignored you. I had others I wanted to address.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I also agree that both the Christian scientist (nothing scientific about them), and Jehovah's witnesses have bizarre med stands. However, the intellectual scientific community, largely by there prejudices, are blind to much that is clearly real. Many historic views....... they have now had to concede, due to clear evidence otherwise.
I find that the scientific community......... far exceeds excesses of the church in their manipulation, and thought programing.....refusing other views.. primarily as it relates to text books.....and still there are dis proven theories published and shoved down the throat's of our kids.
People can walk out of a church and not return. These people hijack entire generations, disallowing any counter view in schools with supporting evidence.......... we have to support them with our tax dollars, Churches accept donations......these people have the IRS .........and they have the hypocritical audacity to label the church as intolerant.
Hypocrisy is very dangerous, I must be very careful myself even addressing it here, I can quickly find myself in the middle of it.
Humility is the only refuge.
I sucker punched ya, and I'm sorry. We've never talked.
I thought of you all day!!!
.
.
I don't pray. I have establised a never ending full duplex communication between past present and future. I walk and talk with my ancestors regular and we make giant foot prints in the sand; they bring me power when I need it but only after we discuss how this power is used and it is certain no-one gets hurt unless they deserve it. Some people migh say "thas god and praying"? is it? My higher force shares no similarity to the 'In god We Trust" on them green backs.
Howdy Hamlet,Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet
I would like to add to my previous post,that I also say Grace,before I eat anything and I pray for my gal,everytime that she leaves the house and that God will help my old car,to git her back home,safe and sound. My prayer worked yesterday,when she left to go and pick up my friend,my right rear tire,threw the tread yesterday,but stayed inflated and allowed her to git home,safe and sound.
All Good and all blessings,flow from God..it's Man that brings despair and hopelessness,to the world,not God. With God..anything is possible,without God..well..you see the results.
I don't git my "God-stuff",from a preacher..it comes from within,when I allow God and Jesus,into my heart,it comes from life experience,it comes from observation of God's creation. No one has told me how to think or act,and i did not abandon my thouht process,to some preacher.
Unlike you,I'm distinctly aware of the difference between me and a monkey,I have no such delusions.
Btw, PETA,stands for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Go visit their web-site and see just how nutty that they are,for yerself.
Have a good one ...
I'd say that readily available meals are the result of advances in agricultural technology and distribution channels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torog
... as for the rest, it's statistical fate. The same forces that keep us from winning the lottery are the same ones that keep us from dying in a plane crash. So, I'm thankful for every day that I check my powerball numbers and see that I haven't won.
Well, I think even the conceptual being of the Christian god would want it's followers to be independent in their lives. The organized practice has a different teaching though. I don't think that it is really in the best interest of people to take the concepts of the many forms of Christianity and crusade ideals that try to inspire change against anyone's will for that specific person.
I personally believe that the Christian religion has been soiled by the church and its participators from what the original idea of the teachings of Christ. And therefore, I believe that I am not able to be a follower of Christ because Christs ideals have been lost and inverted over time. But I also believe that the modern ideals of Christianity were spawned of the human mind.
I just think that to say that Christianity is irrational rather than irrational in ones own opinion or to say that Christianity is a reality that transcends personal belief.
We disagree a lot Torog but I like you for some reason. I think your heart is in the right place. I just gotta get you straightened out on this monkey bashin' issue....lol
As far as PETA goes I don't like to see any living creature suffer. I would be a vegetarian myself for just that reason, but I just can't get past my inner carnivore. I guess living things eat each other and that's just how it is. Oh well, glad I'm close to the top of the food chain for now :)
Oh, I was kinda moved by your prayers for your girls safety. If I can make a suggestion though maybe you aughta think about rounding her up some new tires?! Remember the old proverb "Trust in Allah-but tie up your camel!".
monkeyman out:)