Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
George W. Bush red, white, and blew it!!! Oh I'm quite sure G Dubya thought all this through!! Next will be Iran!!
AMERIKA...THE GREAT WHORE OF BABYLON WILL FALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060408/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A car bomb killed six people Saturday near a Shiite shrine south of Baghdad, and the death toll from the deadliest attack of the year rose to nearly 90. A senior official warned Iraq was in an "undeclared civil war" that can be curbed only by a strong government and greater powers for security services.
With sectarian tensions rising, U.S. Marines on Saturday beat back the largest attack in weeks by Sunni Arab insurgents in the western city of Ramadi â?? another sign of the crisis facing this country three years after Baghdad fell to U.S. forces.
The car bomb exploded at a small shrine in the Euphrates River town of Musayyib, 40 miles south of Baghdad. Police said most of the six dead and 14 wounded were Shiite pilgrims visiting the shrine.
Fears of more attacks are running high in Shiite areas following the Thursday car bombing that killed 10 in the Shiite holy city of Najaf and the suicide attack the following day against a Shiite mosque in Baghdad â?? the deadliest attack in Iraq this year.
The attacks on houses of worship have stoked tensions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims, especially after the Feb. 22 bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, an act that triggered reprisal attacks against Sunni mosques and clerics.
Despite the violence, U.S. officials have discounted talk of civil war. However, a senior Iraqi official said Saturday that an "undeclared civil war" had already been raging for more than a year.
"Is there a civil war? Yes, there is an undeclared civil war that has been there for a year or more," Maj. Gen. Hussein Kamal told The Associated Press. "All these bodies that are discovered in Baghdad, the slaughter of pilgrims heading to holy sites, the explosions, the destruction, the attacks against the mosques are all part of this."
Kamal said the country would still be spared from all-out sectarian war "if a strong government is formed, if the security forces are given wide powers and if they are able to defeat the terrorists."
"Then we might be able to overcome this crisis," he said.
The death toll from the Friday bombing of the Buratha mosque in north Baghdad rose to 85 because some of the wounded died, Dr. Riyadh Abdul Ameer of the Health Ministry said. Officials said the death toll could rise because of severe injuries among the 156 people wounded in the attack by suicide bombers, including one dressed as a woman.
Also Saturday, Sunni insurgents launched their strongest attack in six weeks against the Anbar provincial government headquarters in Ramadi, 75 miles west of Baghdad. There were no U.S. casualties, Marines said.
A U.S. Air Force F-18 fighter bombed insurgent positions, unleashing thunderous explosions that shook the city. U.S. Marines guarding the government headquarters fought back with anti-tank rockets, machine guns and small arms fire.
Sporadic shooting occurred around the government building after sunset, and an Iraqi soldier was killed Saturday in a separate fight in Ramadi, U.S. officials said. Three Iraqi soldiers were wounded in a clash with insurgents in Fallujah, about 30 miles east of Ramadi, police said.
The U.S. military reported Saturday that a U.S. Marine died from wounds suffered in hostile action the day before in Anbar province but gave no further details.
The New York Times reported in its online edition Saturday that an internal staff report by the U.S. Embassy and the military command rated overall stability of six of Iraq's 18 provinces "serious" and one "critical." The report was dated Jan. 31, the Times said.
The newspaper said provinces where overall stability was rated "serious" included Baghdad and oil-rich Basra, where Shiite militias wield considerable influence. Anbar province, which includes Ramadi and Fallujah, was rated "critical," the newspaper said.
"This report should be seen in the broader context of development in Iraq as it relates to the economy, governance and security," Dan Speckhard, the U.S. reconstruction chief for Iraq, said in a statement.
He said significant progress was being made in economic development and local governance after "decades of mismanagement" by Saddam Hussein's regime.
Efforts to form a strong, broadbased government including Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds have stalled over Sunni and Kurdish opposition to Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the Shiite candidate to lead the next administration. Opponents accuse al-Jaafari of failing to stem sectarian violence.
However, al-Jaafari has refused to step aside, and his Shiite coalition has been reluctant to reconsider his nomination for fear of splintering their ranks. Shiite officials were to meet, possibly as soon as Sunday, to discuss the stalemate at the urging of the country's top Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.
Al-Jaafari's allies suggested the meeting would be to affirm the prime minister's nomination, which he won by a single vote during balloting last February among Shiite lawmakers who won seats in parliament in the December elections.
"So far, we still have one candidate ... and that is Dr. Ibrahim al-Jaafari," Jawad al-Maliki, a key member of the prime minister's Dawa party. said. "If there is an opinion to be discussed within the alliance, then it must be discussed through ... democratic means."
Al-Maliki said he understood that al-Sistani wanted the alliance to resolve the crisis "but I did not hear a call" for al-Jaafari to step down. But he added that "anything is possible."
Khalid al-Attiyah, an independent member of the Shiite alliance, said several options were under discussion, including replacing al-Jaafari with Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi, who lost the February vote.
But al-Attiyah said al-Jaafari's party would oppose that. Abdul-Mahdi is a member of the largest Shiite party, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
Other proposals include naming another candidate from Dawa or someone not affiliated with either of the two big Shiite parties, al-Attiyah said.
In other developments Saturday:
â?¢ Police found four headless bodies showing signs of torture that were dumped on a farm about 20 miles north of Baghdad.
â?¢ A mortar round hit a house near the Education Ministry in central Baghdad, killing two men, police said.
Gunmen killed a Shiite cigarette vendor and police found the body of a man killed by a roadside bomb near a highway.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Explain to me how Muslims killing muslims is Bush's fault?
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth1184
Explain to me how Muslims killing muslims is Bush's fault?
He is instigating the fighting. Since Saddam is out, these factions are using the chance they have to form their own government. Iraq was a lot better under Saddam then it is in its current situation. I'm in no way glorifying Saddam, but shit at least there was order! If the Iraqi people wanted "democracy" in Iraq, they would have had mass protests and demanded it and ousted Saddam. Apparently they don't want us there. We fucked it up 10x worse for them!!
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Spirit
Iraq was a lot better under Saddam then it is in its current situation. I'm in no way glorifying Saddam, but shit at least there was order!
They were a lot better off? At least there was order? And your the one AGAINST Hitler syle dictatorships?:confused:
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth1184
Explain to me how Muslims killing muslims is Bush's fault?
original article here, it doesn't take very long to read, and it's only about three pages.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...3607_2,00.html
that's how bush is involved.
The Kid
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
They were a lot better off? At least there was order? And your the one AGAINST Hitler syle dictatorships?:confused:
It's a moot point whether "Hitler" style dictatorships are worse than Islamic theocracy ones. That whole part of the world is retarded.
The best way to deal with the bastards is to cut off all business, foreign aid, military aid, and support from them. They must be boycotted. By "they", I mean all Arab countries. We do not need thier oil that badly.
Our country has lost it's ability to control it's oil consumption, and that's the main problem. For Fuck's sake, most Americans cannot even control their credit card spending.
I would tell the Arab countries that there will be no more business with the U.S until al quada, and similar organizations, are gone. Oh yeah, one more thing: turn over that fucking asshole bin laden!
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
...That whole part of the world is retarded.
The best way to deal with the bastards is to cut off all business, foreign aid, military aid, and support from them. They must be boycotted. By "they", I mean all Arab countries. We do not need thier oil that badly.
Our country has lost it's ability to control it's oil consumption, and that's the main problem. For Fuck's sake, most Americans cannot even control their credit card spending.
I would tell the Arab countries that there will be no more business with the U.S until al quada, and similar organizations, are gone. Oh yeah, one more thing: turn over that fucking asshole bin laden!
Looks like the only thing we've lost the ability to do is use diplomacy. Well, everybody knows that with GWB in charge, we aren't going to be winning any war of words.
It's not the whole country's fault that certain people are crazy. And it's definately not good policy to put an embargo on legitimate economies.
Some People (not just americans and "arabs") just don't know how to play nice. Unfortuantely those people are now in charge of a lot of important things.
The Kid
PS- Do some research into how many ties the bush family has in the middle east. It's no suprise why we havn't taken your route.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
Looks like the only thing we've lost the ability to do is use diplomacy. Well, everybody knows that with GWB in charge, we aren't going to be winning any war of words.
It's not the whole country's fault that certain people are crazy. And it's definately not good policy to put an embargo on legitimate economies.
Some People (not just americans and "arabs") just don't know how to play nice. Unfortuantely those people are now in charge of a lot of important things.
The Kid
PS- Do some research into how many ties the bush family has in the middle east. It's no suprise why we havn't taken your route.
I know about the politics with the rich (not just Bush) and the Sheiks. That is exactly what we have to end.
The only thing of any value that the middle east produces is oil, which is just due to their geographic location, and to jeopardize peace and security so that we can drive SUV's is insane. If the government, and our corporations, will not boycott the middle east, then it's time for Americans to do it themselves.
Ironically, with regards to our foreign policies, I would do exactly what bin laden wants: pull out entirely, and have nothing to do with them. Then, and only then, will we see some positive changes.
I am not against using military force when necessary, but we've botched it up - both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
We have to redefine our society as one based on reason, not the anti-life teachings of religion - espeically the monotheistic ones. Unless we adapt to modern times, we'll all perish - and that is exactly what bin laden, and others of his ilk involved with various belief systems, wants.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
Looks like the only thing we've lost the ability to do is use diplomacy. Well, everybody knows that with GWB in charge, we aren't going to be winning any war of words.It's not the whole country's fault that certain people are crazy. And it's definately not good policy to put an embargo on legitimate economies.Some People (not just americans and "arabs") just don't know how to play nice. Unfortuantely those people are now in charge of a lot of important things.The Kid
PS- Do some research into how many ties the bush family has in the middle east. It's no suprise why we havn't taken your route.
I'd counter that we should be using other types of energy regardless of how "nice" the middle eastern "legitimate economies" are.
We could kill two birds with one stone: Stop using up the earth's oil supply and causing pollution, and end the threat of terrorism.
When that is accomplished, maybe then we could find some way of doing business with them again.
Who in their right mind thinks that it is MANDATORY that we buy, and conspicuously consume, middle eastern, or any other, oil? Other than the oil, which is just their luck because of the geography, the middle east has produced NOTHING of any value to the world! They deserve nothing in return.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
They were a lot better off? At least there was order? And your the one AGAINST Hitler syle dictatorships?:confused:
You're missing the point kid. Understand that we had NO RIGHT to invade Iraq in the first place! Remember that Bush demonized Saddam and most "mad terrorists" such as Saddam would use their "weapons of mass destruction" on invaders. Funny he didn't. Why? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T FUCKEN HAVE ANY WMDs!!!
That invasion was based on a lie so the US could get its oil and maintain super-power status to control the world.....Project For A New American Century! Perhaps if we left Iraq alone and the time was right, the Iraqis would have overthrown Saddam their own way and created the government they WANTED...not what best suits the US and its corporate cronies. Maybe to them, an Islamic Republic is what they wanted. So be it. A lot of people hate our laws and find them ridiculous..such as gay marriage banning and drug laws. Saddam was secular remember..and he had no contact with bin Laden who is a fundementalist. Though fascism and theocracy go hand in hand somewhat.
Bush will use fundemental Christianity as his means of fascism. "Oh people we have to come Jesus Christ so he can save us all from evil. America is God's nation!!" will be his logo. "The homosexuals are evil and are of the devil!" will be his statements. "The terrorists will never stop trying to hurt us...and neither will I", will be his trademark. Why do you think he tried to ban homosexual marriage?? hmmm??? Makes you think doesn't it! Reminds me of when Hitler created the Nuremberg race laws which considered Jews less than human.
The fun and fascism never end in Amerika!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross" - Sinclair Lewis
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
to Breukelen advocaat
Hey man, we are on the same page.
But I think that you are just a bit more patriotic than I am.
I agree with everything you are saying except that I think we should continue to do business with them as people, we (as americans and a government) just need to be more tolerant of other societies and cultures.
On top of that, I want you to know that I don't own a car, and I'm building up on some property that I will live on alternative energy (solar, wind, water) well water, and organically grown crops. So more power to us tree huggers.
I agree we messed up, but it was our own intolerance that started the whole thing anyway. Yeah, they do things very differently over there. But they've been doing it for over 1000 years and they seemed to be comfortable with the way they lived. As in didn't ask for assitance, other than israel, but nobody in the UN would help them because they were jewish, so we helped them, but look wat that did. (still not saying it's a bad thing, maybe a necessary evil?)
Just some thoughts.
The Kid
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
Hey man, we are on the same page.
But I think that you are just a bit more patriotic than I am.
I agree with everything you are saying except that I think we should continue to do business with them as people, we just need to be more tolerant of other societies and cultures.
On top of that, I want you to know that I don't own a car, and I'm building up on some property that I will live on alternative energy (solar, wind, water) well water, and organically grown crops. So more power to us tree huggers.
I agree we messed up, but it was our own intolerance that started the whole thing anyway. Yeah, they do things very differently over there. But they've been doing it for over 1000 years and they seemed to be comfortable with the way they lived. As in didn't ask for assitance, other than israel, but nobody in the UN would help them because they were jewish, so we helped them, but look wat that dd. (still not saying it's a bad thing, maybe a necessary evil?)
Just some thoughts.
The Kid
I don't own a car, either. Of course, this is easier in NYC than most places.
I don't really care how they differently they "do things" in the middle east - as long as they keep their religion out of our business. The Muslims hate freedom and democracy. We cannot force a fusion of democracy and their brand of religious lunacy on them - It will never work, and Iraq is a perfect example.
We shouldn't have involved ourselves in the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The Soviets were not nearly as much a threat to us as the religious nuts made them out to be.
As long as we have retarded religious leaders running this country, from Jimmy Carter to G.W. Bush, we're not going to get it straightened out.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
*not suprised by article*
if you don't only get news from American sources, this has been going on for weeks. Hence the increasement of around 30,000 troops a few weeks ago, while the President is saying we are going to cut down the troop size being occupied in Iraq.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by xblackdogx
*not suprised by article*
if you don't only get news from American sources, this has been going on for weeks. Hence the increasement of around 30,000 troops a few weeks ago, while the President is saying we are going to cut down the troop size being occupied in Iraq.
We only hear what they want us to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
I don't own a car, either. Of course, this is easier in NYC than most places.
I don't really care how they differently they "do things" in the middle east - as long as they keep their religion out of our business. The Muslims hate freedom and democracy. We cannot force a fusion of democracy and their brand of religious lunacy on them - It will never work, and Iraq is a perfect example.
We shouldn't have involved ourselves in the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The Soviets were not nearly as much a threat to us as the religious nuts made them out to be.
As long as we have retarded religious leaders running this country, from Jimmy Carter to G.W. Bush, we're not going to get it straightened out.
so what you are really saying is, "As long as we have retarded religion, from Christianity to Islam, we're not going to get it straightened out.
That may not be what you said, but it sure does provide a more accurate description of your post.
The Kid
(so maybe we aren't on the same side)
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
so what you are really saying is, "As long as we have retarded religion, from Christianity to Islam, we're not going to get it straightened out.
I think that pretty much sums up the truth....unfortunately!
Have a good one!:thumbsup:
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
The Muslims hate freedom and democracy.
Thats bullshit and you know it!! It's their fanatical right wing leaders who hate democracy. Remember...Bush is trying to get rid of democracy too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
As long as we have retarded religious leaders running this country, from Jimmy Carter to G.W. Bush, we're not going to get it straightened out
Carter was not a religious leader, but at least proposed to legalize marijuana! Democrats are like that...lol. Reagan was the one we should have worried about too.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
We only hear what they want us to hear.so what you are really saying is, "As long as we have retarded religion, from Christianity to Islam, we're not going to get it straightened out.That may not be what you said, but it sure does provide a more accurate description of your post.
The Kid(so maybe we aren't on the same side)
I don't know, with regards to religion, which "side" you're on. I am against ANY combination of religion and government. The Christian idiots like Carter, Reagan, Bush (both), etc., are not capable of making sound decisions regarding church and state in our own country, much less hotbeds of religous insanity like the Middle East.
Basically, we can put all of that aside and stop buying oil from them. Let them fucking rot in the dark ages, for all we care. They've produced nothing that we want, so let them come crawling back on their hands and knees to us for our business.
I'm in favor of NON-VIOLENT solutions to terrorism, when possible. If that does not work, then other methods must be employed.
Anybody got a problem with that?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-ha...ns_b_8615.html
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
What you are suggesting is worse than war. you are condemning a country to economic death if you do that. They depend on us, just as we depend on other countries as well (where do you think all the money for the war is coming from?).
That would never happen A.) because not everybody's heart is dead and cold B.) a region with that much money is impossible not to deal with. Middle east countries own more ports in the world than any other region.
You are dreaming friend. Just learn to play nice.
You dig? We all live here on this planet together.
CO-EXIST DAMMIT!!!
The Kid
Yeah, you've got some heil in you.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Panda
What you are suggesting is worse than war. you are condemning a country to economic death if you do that. They depend on us, just as we depend on other countries as well (where do you think all the money for the war is coming from?).
That would never happen A.) because not everybody's heart is dead and cold B.) a region with that much money is impossible not to deal with. Middle east countries own more ports in the world than any other region.
You are dreaming friend. Just learn to play nice.
You dig? We all live here on this planet together.
CO-EXIST DAMMIT!!!
The Kid
Yeah, you've got some heil in you.
I was wondering how long it would take you to cross over the line and play the "nazi" card ("Yeah, you've got some heil in you".).
I live in a city with over 120 ethnic groups - if I didn't like diversity, I'd move. Where the hell do YOU live, in the suburbs?
You're missing the point. If we buy their oil, we're fucked by the terrorists. We also fuck up the earth using that shit, which we are doing.
So, let me get this straight. We MUST subject ourselves to terrorism from people that hate our freedom, culture, intellect, and good-will, by buying a product that is destructive. Is that what you are saying? What do you believe in? Self destructiveness?
P.S. - The "dice" are loaded in their game, sucker.
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
Doesn't everyone know Muslims were peaceful loving people before Bush took office?
Official: Iraq in 'Undeclared Civil War'
I won't pull the Hitler card again, it was lame.
I did grow up in the suburbs but moved very far away b/c of lack of diversity and the abundance of intolerance.
Too much of our own economy is tied up in the petroleum industry. It's a multi-billion dollar industry in this country and you'd have to convice the people that are already making un-fathomable amounts of money to stop doing the thing that makes them rich. It's not likely that you would be able to convince them to invest in alternative energy because they would need some way to keep making money to support the hole left in the economy be removing the petroleum industry. So the basic part of this is, we do need middle east oil.
I think what you want is going to happen eventually, but it's going to be very gradual and financially painful for poor people like me. it's not going to happen over night, but the companies standing in the way of your dream will eventually realize that you are right. But it'll probably be after you are dead.
look up the Bilderberg Conference, also another reason why we can't just cut relations.
The Kid
