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This is a site i found while reading the link that one of you guys gave in a post about LEAP. This is EXCELLENT material and it should be thouroughly read, TOP TO BOTTOM. This is some of the best material i have seen in a long time.
http://www.drugwardistortions.org/NO...eport_2005.pdf
Thanks for the info!
Knowing the facts and being able to use them in arguments and or discussions is the only way we will ever be able to change people's mind's about marijuana and its use.
Through intelligent argument and reasoning, I myself have changed several people's minds, including my highly conservative grandfather.
Alcohol has been proven, time and time again to be the most overall detrimental substance (drug) available. It is also the cause of more accidents than any other drug and it is responsible for about 45,000 deaths a year and tobacco is responsible for about 440,000 deaths a year.
so stick that in your pipe and schmoke it...lol
but weed kills :(
:p
I think the problem here is most people, including ourselves, miss the big picture. The big picture is that the people who are in control of this country, and will always be in control of this country(I'm not referring to any 1 political party, it's a combined effort of both), don't want marijuana legalized, therefore it never will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ster chef
You changed a few peoples minds, don't get me wrong-that's good, but the government changed 200,000 peoples minds today with a commercial they showed. See my point? I've said it time and time again on this board, it comes down to money, MARIJUANA WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. Money drives this country, why would any government that's driven by money legalize something that will COST them money? Simple, they won't ever do it, period.
It doesn't matter how fucked up it is, this government is a piece of shit. They could care less about you or me, lets be honest here. This may be a good country, and I'm glad to be here, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it "great".
Yes, weed kills. But in a ratio compared to alcohol it is about 1 to 6000 to cause death (one being one unit, enough to get one person "high", the one unit being about a fifth of an eighth of 5 percent THC marijuana), while alcohol has a 1--6 to 1--10 ratio, depending on the person.
And yes, i know you were joking, but there are people who might actually take that seriously.
I have no doubts that it will be legalized. Every year there are about 750,000 people arrested for marijuana.
The war on drugs is a 69 billion dollar a year debachle (if that's spelled right) that has been going on for about 30 years. It costs as much money every year as that first major attack on Iraq. The gov't cannot ignore the increasing use and availability of it, nor can it ignore the significant amount of taxes that could be generated from it.
thx man that was a good read
I thought it was a very easy to read and very well put together report with all sources well documented and links to many of them. I dare someone to argue that report down.
That's a good read, thanks man!
I'm hoping within the next couple decades or so that marijuana will be legalized. However, it never will be until people, the average American, wises up and seeks out information on the drug.
The reasons that it will be so hard to legalize is just because the government can't regulate it, like they can tobacco or alcohol. Because weed is so easy to grow, anyone can do it. Therefore they wouldn't be able to tax those who grow personally. BUT if it were legal, the gov't could get so much money by taxing it, because you know most people would probably buy the commercial stuff, so I don't know why they don't think about that. Or maybe they do.. ? :confused:
And besides, politicians and big business, pharmacutical (sp?) companies are all deep in each others pockets with campaigns monies. Don't think these huge companies don't know the benefits of marijuana.. they do. That's why they work so hard to keep it illegal... So people will continue to buy their overpriced and overprescribed medications. :p
Well they cant keep it illegal forever. And if i have anything to do with it it'll be even easier to get. Lol....
I know many of you on this forum are somewhat influential people and those who arent might know someone who is. You might be surprised what tugging at a coattail will do. I personally know several cops that smoke and who KNOW that the "WAR ON DRUGS" is a joke that will never work.
You just cant keep something that has such harmless, yet strong effects from being widely used by the public.
I don't think you understand, there would be little or no tax dollars generated from legalization because everyone would grow it themselves, or buy it from someone else who does.Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ster chef
no, they just need to follow Holland's government. Sell it, for cheap, and tax it.....trust me, people will chose to buy it from a conveniant coffee shop rather than call around to see who can sell it to them.
Very nice I must admit. Would be nice though if the government actually listened. But, of course, all they think about is money...
The Duderino
Why? Do you realize that the big pharm. companies out there are paying the government huge amounts of cash every year to keeps drugs like this from being legalized?Quote:
Originally Posted by infidel818
Trust me, if there was money to be made from legalization it would have been done a long time ago.
thanks for sharing...
that is good education....I wish all voters would have to read tht before voting about legalization
I am mixed up on the legalization issue. On one hand it could be really good for society as a whole (tax revenue and all). On the other hand, it could also kill or atleast posion a community I've been part of since 7th grade (cannabis consumers). Also, I feel weird about giving money to the state so I can get high. But I will prob. vote for it because of its potenial to help relieve the burden on society that moronic drug laws created.
I agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by tadaa
that was an educational read right there, and i want to support NORML
I think it has a lot to do with the stereotypes associated with Marijuana, and with anybody that supports legalization... The simple fact is that even if president bush beleived himself that it would be goos for the country to legalize it, he would never say because it will ruin his rep, and as for other politicans, they wont because they dont want to lose votes...My view is that in 20 years we will be looking back on this the way we look back on segregation now, it will seem insane that a plant would have been illegal... in the same way that it seems insane to think there used to be 2 different schools for white and black people.
I think it's because of people like you that marijuana isn't legal. You see it as a war that is lost, so there is no reason fighting and that is the worst thing you can do. You are what the DEA wants, people who think they control us and can tell us what to do. You've ruined the idea of democracy because you let the government tell you what you can and can not smoke. It's your fault it's illegal not the government's or their money... you give them their money and tell them what to vote for. Politicians are SERVENTS and untill YOU understand that we will never have legalized marijuana. But if you wake the fuck up and realize that we choose who governs us we can change what they feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadaa
Look at immigration - no one gave a shit a week ago... but 300,000 people march for one week and over %50 of americans think it's a big deal. They want congress to address it this week. It's moved up that fast because of people who understand that they run our country not our officials. It's sad when Mexicans understand the power of democracy more than we do.
There is a Million Marijuana March (global Marijuana March) in one month. I will bet that if we manage to get 500,000 people to march in just the US people will talk about it. Get 1,000,000 and it'll change things... But I know that a lot of people won't make that stand because they think we've lost the war and there is no hope for marijuana... well i just hope for you that once it becomes legal everyone who doubted it's legalization and smokes should not be allowed to use it.
"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of great moral crises maintain their neutrality." -- Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)
You are the worst part about the drug war... it's easy to tell someone who doesn't smoke that they have been lied to... but when someone that smokes still has doubt in the power of cannabis you are either grossly uneducated about the subject, or a bigger hypocryte than the government that forces these laws...
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
You make me laugh. Do you realize that the people of this country don't get to vote on federal laws, right? It's not like the government lets the citizens choose their laws. As long as the government makes the laws, which it always will, marijuana will never be legal in this country. You could have 5 million people march and it isn't going to do a damn thing. Citizens don't dictate law, the government does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
The only way it will change is if there are enough politicians elected that support marijuana to make a difference, and they are few and far between, let alone enough to actually make a change.
you make me cry... you're the reason democracy doesn't work... and you still don't understand that.
Congress makes the laws - we elect congress - we make the laws
IF you don't vote for who you want, nothing will change.
IF you do vote it will change.
Marijuana is legal for medical use in 11 states and many other cities around the us have decrimed it. In November Nevada and Colorado both have statewide legaliztion bills (NV almost passed 4 years ago). Loretta Nall is running for governor of Alamaba - Leading member of the U.S. Marijuana party. There have been officials in governtment that want it legal -
On September 6, 1988, the Drug Enforcement Administration's Chief Administrative Law Judge, Francis L. Young, ruled: "Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known....[T]he provisions of the [Controlled Substances] Act permit and require the transfer of marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule II. It would be unreasonable, arbitrary and capricious for the DEA to continue to stand between those sufferers and the benefits of this substance." - Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Agency, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition," [Docket #86-22] (September 6, 1988), p. 57.
* Biblical - Genesis 1:29 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
"Make the most of the Indian Hemp Seed and sow it everywhere." George Washington
"Congress should definitely consider decriminalizing possession of marijuana... We should concentrate on prosecuting the rapists and burglars who are a menace to society." Dan Quayle U.S. Representative and Vice president under President Bush March 1977
"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use... Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce [28g] of marihuana." Jimmy Carter U.S. President Message to congress 1977
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." Ronald Reagan U.S. President
Annual drug deaths: tobacco: 395,000, alcohol: 125,000, 'legal' drugs: 38,000, illegal drug overdoses: 5,200, marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?
--Ralph Nader
Is that not good enough for you? Do you need more cause I can get them?? It's not that the politicans don't want to legalize it... it's that no one voting cares about it. You don't think that if 5 million people said we'll vote for you if you legalize marijuana not one would try to legallize it?? You're an idoit otherwise. They don't make our laws because they shit it out one day and think it's a good idea... they make laws inwhich they believe people will vote for them and keep them in office and if marijuana smokers sit asdie and believe that thier vote counts less than anyone elses and will cause no change then hell no it won't become legal... but if morons like you wake the fuck up and realize that it doesn't take a billion people to change something it will happen.
It takes 3-5 people to change a cities status on marijuana... but you'll never understand that untill you understand democracy, perhaps you should read our declaration (written on 100% hemp) and constitution before you debate on how our country runs. Just because we have a tyrant in office doesn't mean this is how American is spose to be. You must realize that as well.
Bingo, and if you had any common sense, or knew anything about politics you would realize 2 things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
1. Most politicans that are in favor of legalization won't ever go public with it because it SEVERELY decreases their chances of being elected because the majority of voters don't want it.
2. No matter how liberal a politican is they aren't going to turn down thousands of dollars in kick backs from pharm companies and other politicans to keep this drug illegal.
I don't think you get it, people in congress would take a salary cut if laws such as legalization were passed. I don't care how liberal you are, nobody turns down that kind of cash. You really have no clue as to how things really work.
It comes down to money. You could have 50 million people march and it wont' do a damn thing because people in power would rather have more money in their pockets than satisfy the majority. Keep in mind, we're talking about a small march here, even 50 million isn't a majority in this country. We're talking about what, maybe 50 thousand, even 500k, that's nothing in a country of 295 million people.
ps. any ANY person can submit a bill to congress... I've personally written 5. We live in a country where people have more power over the ruler, read a history book. Congress isn't a closed room, it's live on TV... you can watch it now and see what they are saying. You can e-mail or call all of them and tell them if you think they are right or wrong 100 times a day. They are normal people like you and me and if they get thousands of emails of people telling them that what they are doing is wrong they will change. But I'm guessing you don't even know what cspan is. So please try to pay attention to our government and get involved and with a few more people things will change. Do you honestly not think that if the 5,000 people that come here daily emailed there representive and senator nothing would change?? It's because they get one email a day that nothing changes...
here, i've gotten their emails for you... just smoke a bowl and write 2 emails telling them you think marijuana should be legal. The worst thing that could happen is they not read it...
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
they don't stay elected if no one likes them... that's why we vote and it's hard to get money if your not in office
And how did that work out for you? My point stands. You act as if the government doesn't know that marijuana isn't that bad, they know, they don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
Don't you think that if it was ever going to be legalized it would have been done by now, that's common sense. Trust me, you're shooting for the impossible. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but there really is no chance or it would have been done a long time ago.
Tadaa, i have agreed with you before, but now is not one of those times. I think you're just a really closed minded person.
Look at the gay community. They only constitute about 1 percent of the population and because they made a stand now they get what they want.
I hope you realize that it is because of people like you that are so closed minded as to the amount of power we as people have that we cant get laws and issues to the surface.
OF COURSE doing what you're doing is the easiest thing. You have already given up. I bet you have the survival instinct of a do do bird. People like you just arent fighters.
You follow. Congtartulations. YOU can convince your friends that sitting on your ass and smoking pot in secret is the easiest thing to do.
You do absolutely nothing for the cause. In fact, you're on the opposite side and I really wish you would just try some of the suggestions that Gumby made. He's right this time. And good luck getting anyone to agree with you.
Um gays still aren't allowed to marry in most states, and we're talking about a drug here, not gay people.Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ster chef
It's the principal. But im done trying to convince you otherwise. You're a lost cause in my opinioin. At least right now.
Go home and hide and smoke a bowl. And when it's legalized you can still go home and hide and smoke a bowl because you wont have had even one tiny part in it.
And it's not a drug. And this country was FOUNDED on christian beliefs and those beliefs say that homosexuality is wrong. But they cried and cried and to make the people happy it's being legalized. So like i said, you can play hide and go smoke.
Also pot isnt legal, IN MOST STATES. so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
How many states is pot legal in now? I dare say more than the gays are allowed to marry in.
You think because of the time it's been illegal is the reason it's not legal? You really are more ignorant than I thought. Nixon was the first to start the 'war on drugs' the DEA isn't even that old... it's been legal for millions of years and illegal for 70 years. I think I'd take the Million years.
It's been illegal because of the people who have been in office... and we choose who gets into office, when you can connect that to the effects it has on law you will understand the basics of government. Marijuana is legal in 11 states because people wanted it to be, not becuase of the government. It's on the ballots in Nevada because of people who asked for it not politicians. Our government hasn't changed the laws on marijuana cause no one has asked them, not because they don't care. They don't care caseu no body is making them care... and the most important people are the ones that vote for them, so when they start caring about it and expressing it they will care, and if they do care they will change it.
If you knew more about the subject you could also tell them about the fuel it can produce, which would stop the need for forgien oil. Or the pulping that could come from it which would stop the cutting down of trees... it because people, much like yourself, who use marijuana don't know the benifits of it and don't express how much making it legal would help out.
here's a book you canread to get a little more knowledge about it...
http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html
If you post again, please come up with because it's been illegal it's going to remain illegal, because that's about the dumbest argument i've heard. And atleast reference something that proves what you think...
Well the whole tree thing isnt REALLY a pressing issue. My grandad is a forrester and he says at the rate forrests are being planted and growing, there's no way we could ever cut them down. In fact, every year, the areas of forrest are outgrowing the areas being cut. Also america needs its timber industry to provide jobs since we're exporting so many jobs overseas. I hate to see people lose their jobs. Also Im mainly refering to the Pine industry.
But im seriously tired of people not trying to change their governments minds. Like you said, we elect them, we dictate what they do. If they want to be elected or reelected they will push the issues we push at them.
Huh? That doesn't even make any sense. My point is that gays still aren't allowed to marry, pot is still illegal, what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ster chef
By your logic since women are allowed to vote that means that pot will eventually be legal. You need to learn about causation. Just because one event follows the next doesn't mean the previous was the cause.
There wasn't government a million years ago. Anymore pointless and useless jibberish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
i'd still take 4000 years over 70 years...
any more stupid points to make??
You said that gays arent allowed to marry in "most" states.
Pot isnt legal in MOST states. My point, you dumb sensless hammer head, is that it is legal to some extent in some states. You are an ignorant ass. We are making progress (no thanks to you because you try to convince people that we cant) in the fight for legalization. Just like the gays have done. Any group of people can get nearly anything legalized if they bitch and moan about it enough. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. And from now on why dont you try to make a valid point.
By the way if we were marijuana was loosing the war on drugs and the government is so good at keeping it illegal, why did they increase the DEA budget over 1200% over the past 10 years? To me that sounds like the government is losing and needing more money to fight the war.
But keep cheering for them tadaa, I'm sure they are gonna keep lying to you telling you they are winning and you'll believe them. Just please PLEASE write something factual next time...