Anybody see this fundamentalist movement on cnn?

I was just watching cnn today and they were covering this fundamentalist christian movement that was pretty insane (in my humble opinion). They're claiming that all the soldiers killed in Iraq were killed by god because America has allowed homosexuals to have rights, holding up signs with slogans such as "god hates your tears", referring to families of dead soldiers. So yep, America just has one more crazy group to deal with *sigh*. But do note that these nuts hardly represent the majority of christians, so don't lump them all into one group! (as many people love to do with any group)


heres' the article

http://us.cnn.com/2006/US/03/06/btsc...als/index.html

and here's the group's website

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

lol, apparently sweden is doomed to the wrath of god too, in one of their links.

I think these idiots need to shut up before they give christians an even worse name. I'm christian, but these kind of groups just make me sick. It's like they don't realize we are in WAR, it's inevitable to have casualties. These kinds of groups also put a lot of pressure on the families (especially other christian families) which is just not needed.

They're not new, they're the Westboro Baptist Church, headed by Rev. Phelps. Check out "The Laramie Project".

Hopefuly the more they go on and on, the more people realize homophobes look and are moronic. Then we'll just have to legalize pot, end the war, and bring back Firefly and Freaks & Geeks and I'll be pretty happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeanPBizner

They're not new, they're the Westboro Baptist Church, headed by Rev. Phelps. Check out "The Laramie Project".

Hopefuly the more they go on and on, the more people realize homophobes look and are moronic. Then we'll just have to legalize pot, end the war, and bring back Firefly and Freaks & Geeks and I'll be pretty happy.

---

I've heard good things about that Firefly. How is it?

Extremists give the rest of us bad name.

Well I have to say, when they talk about God hating fags, they're just being honest Christians. It's in the Bible, is it not?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." —Leviticus 18:22

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." —Leviticus 20:13

Don't all demoninations of Christianity publish this in their books? If they wanted to get rid of the idea that being gay is wrong, they'd stop printing in their books that it's okay to kill gay people. It would be like me distributing copies of Mein Kampf to my followers and wondering why some of them have become anti-Semites. Hate literature spreads hate. If you want to stem the spread of hate, stop spreading hate literature. I can't think of one good logical reason to keep those two passages in your Bibles if you don't believe in discriminating against gays.

There is a difference between calling a sin a sin according to the Bible and how we handle that. I denounce the actions of this group just as I denounce the actions of the groups that bomb abortion clinics and condone other such acts. It is important to seperate the sin from the sinner. I have been shown some of my own sins, while the people did so in a correct way.

I know that probably doesn't make much sense to a lot of you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

There is a difference between calling a sin a sin according to the Bible and how we handle that.

---

The Bible tells you exactly how to handle that. Right next to the part where it tells you it's a sin. Didn't you read it?

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

If Christians don't condone killing the gays, they should stop publishing that in their Bibles. And if they admit that the contents of the Bible are not true and not relevant to life in modern society, then what's the point in looking to it for answers?

Keeping the Bible in its entire context is important. That punishment is under the Mosaic Law and not applicable to Christian...possibly the orthodox Jew tho. I'm not sure of that tho, since I'm not a Jew.

Okay, then why not include a footnote that says "God doesn't actually believe this bigoted crap anymore. He changed his mind at some point and said it's okay to be gay."

because it isn't ok to be gay it's just that man doesn't exact justice...God does. That applies to all sin btw. We may suffer consequences, such as getting an STD when cheating on our spouse or getting punished in accordance with our legal system for breaking a law but final judgment is for God. That does not mean I can pretend that it's ok to commit sin...and that includes any sin.

It's interesting how all these "Holy" texts, whether it be for christianity, Islam, Judaism, or whatever, just happen to preach morals which conveniently coincide with the society from which they came. In my humble opinion, people should stop undoubtedly believing some man-made book is from the direct words of god. Islam says women should cover their faces, but where is the logic in that? The christian god says we have to kill homosexuals or anybody who commits sodomy, but there isn't a single piece of logic in why sticking your dick in somebody's asshole for mutual pleasure is a bad thing. No harm ever came to anybody, other than the participants, for having ass sex. It's affected our society in no way except for those who cling to biblical scriptures that tell them it's wrong. The so called "words of god" are obviously the words of man, who based "god's" morals on their own morals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

because it isn't ok to be gay it's just that man doesn't exact justice...God does. That applies to all sin btw. We may suffer consequences, such as getting an STD when cheating on our spouse or getting punished in accordance with our legal system for breaking a law but final judgment is for God. That does not mean I can pretend that it's ok to commit sin...and that includes any sin.

---

Being gay is not something you can consciously control. Pretty much the whole psychological community agrees that sexual orientation is not a choice but an inborn trait. For instance, certain proportions of chemicals in the womb have been statistically connected to the sexual orientation of the baby. And studies of these "therapists" who try to turn gay people straight have provided no objective evidence that the idea works. Should people be judged sinners for the proportions of chemicals that were in their mother's womb before they were born, or for their genetic makeup? It is no more justifiable than calling being black a sin, or being a woman, or having a birth defect.

I believe those asertions have been proven false, although I don't recall where I read them at the moment. That being said, for the sake of discussion, I will go along with the claim. Assuming that people are simply born gay or with a predisposition to be gay then I would assert that the person can still choose to not give into it, much the same as many beleive alcoholism can be concidered hereditary a person can choose to live diferently. That, of course, is leaving God out of the equation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

I believe those asertions have been proven false, although I don't recall where I read them at the moment.

---

I have to say, I'm not convinced. I think I'll go with the psychological community's overwhelming consensus over the word of a layman who says he read something but can't remember where.

Quote:

---

That being said, for the sake of discussion, I will go along with the claim. Assuming that people are simply born gay or with a predisposition to be gay then I would assert that the person can still choose to not give into it, much the same as many beleive alcoholism can be concidered hereditary a person can choose to live diferently. That, of course, is leaving God out of the equation.

---

Yes, God does kind of screw up the equation, huh? I mean, why would an all-loving being infuse certain people with an inborn drive to commit a sin and then force them to overcome their nature? Why would an all-loving God make a form of love a sin in the first place? You'd think an all-loving being would refrain from punishing people just because they practice a different kind of love. But that's just me and my logic. You of course are free to hold onto your absolute faith in the bigoted superstitious absurdities said by past generations, as long as you don't try to force that bigotry on others.

By the way, where do you get this idea that Christians aren't bound by Mosaic law? Jesus said very clearly that the Old Testament law cannot change "one jot or one tittle":

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

---

Not once did I say the God screwed it up. lol Besides, God did not give us sin, man did with the fall of Adam and Eve.

A Christian is not bound to the civil or cermonial law of the Old Testament. Jesus fullfilled the law as the ultimate scarifice. However, the underlying principles do still apply.

What about mutations and shit? There's a lot of problems with organic systems especially DNA. Does god have a reason for these or does he get sick pleasure out of 8 legged frogs and disordered babies?

Nope, that's due to sin as I mentioned re: Adam and Eve

I thought it had to do with radiation and cosmic rays.Seriously though, frogs have sinned?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

Not once did I say the God screwed it up. lol Besides, God did not give us sin, man did with the fall of Adam and Eve.

---

Umm, excuse me, but what the fuck did I do to deserve sin? Adam and Eve, if they existed, died thousands of years ago. No rational being would hold me responsible for their acts, or punish me for something they did.

Quote:

---

A Christian is not bound to the civil or cermonial law of the Old Testament. Jesus fullfilled the law as the ultimate scarifice. However, the underlying principles do still apply.

---

Ah yes, the good old underlying principles, like blatant sexism:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Genesis 3:16

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

---

Yup, that's right, men are supposed to "rule over" women, and women have to endure the pain of childbirth because of something Eve did thousands of years before anyone alive today was born. If you want to be an honest Christian, you not only have to be bigoted against gays, but also against women, for they have committed the evil sin of being the same gender as a mythical character who took an apple from a talking snake. I can't believe people swallow this crap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

Nope, that's due to sin as I mentioned re: Adam and Eve

---

Who invented the concept of sin in the first place? God, right? If God is all-powerful, why couldn't he create a Garden of Eden that didn't have evil snakes or a Tree of Knowledge? (By the way, what's so bad about a woman having knowledge?) He could have created a perfect humanity which was innately good and never gave into evil. Christians often say that evil is necessary to appreciate the good in life. Well, couldn't God make it so that everybody can appreciate good without having evil? I mean, if he is indeed all-powerful, he could have that arranged. He could have easily used his infinite powers to create a universe in which everybody had free will but nobody ever had to suffer. But he didn't. Which means, in short, he fucked up. Big time.

Maybe God's just a big kid with a magnifying glass, and just as much of a little bastard?

When Adam and Eve took from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they were trying to be like God and have His knowledge. God didn't want robots and that's why He gave us free will. Would life be easier if He made us robots? Sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

The Bible tells you exactly how to handle that. Right next to the part where it tells you it's a sin. Didn't you read it?

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

If Christians don't condone killing the gays, they should stop publishing that in their Bibles. And if they admit that the contents of the Bible are not true and not relevant to life in modern society, then what's the point in looking to it for answers?

---

The purpose of leviticus was to give the people of God their laws for the time. These laws don't apply to us now a days, but they are good guidelines as far as whats right and wrong. It's even the same with the 10 commandments, God gave these laws to the israelites, and Jesus did away with the old covenant when he lived on this earth. I'm not saying that homosexuality is an ok thing now since a punishment wasn't assigned for these times, but the punishment for such things are in the hands of man's law, if there be any punishment at all.

I quess all the muslims killed in iraq is because of islams acceptance of homosexuality. being gay isn't a sin, being a bigot is. I hope one of these scum dies so I can protest at their funeral.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

When Adam and Eve took from the tree of knowledge of good and evil ....

---

But why have the tree in the first place? Why not just have norml apple trees? It just seems like an all knowing being would have seen that comming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonStarer420

But why have the tree in the first place? Why not just have norml apple trees? It just seems like an all knowing being would have seen that comming.

---

It's a childish story that can't really hold up against logic. I'm really surprised that so many grown adults still believe it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mont974x4

When Adam and Eve took from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they were trying to be like God and have His knowledge.

---

What's so bad about that? Knowledge is good. Ignorance is bad. How can you be held responsible to a moral code if you are denied access to knowledge about good and evil?

Quote:

---

God didn't want robots and that's why He gave us free will. Would life be easier if He made us robots? Sure.

---

But God knew the whole Garden of Eden thing would screw up. He must have seen it coming, and yet he put that tree there. If the frickin tree wasn't there, humanity could have lived with free will in utopia for all eternity, no evil or anything, just like it was in the beginning. God should have built a giant evil-protecting shield around the Garden so the fallen angel couldn't get in.

If God agrees that evil is a bad thing, why doesn't he banish it from human affairs? Why doesn't he just bend the laws of logic so that murder and rape are good things to do? That way there would never be any evil. Or is God no match for the laws of logic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrdevious

It's a childish story that can't really hold up against logic. I'm really surprised that so many grown adults still believe it.

---

That's a little harsh. It's an allegory afterall. And a lot can be learned from it if it's interpreted as such and not merely as history. I mean, the serpent never actually lies, and there's no mention of the fruit being apples. Common misconceptions though, have you ever actually read it?
In today's world I'd say we're better served by Plato's allegory of the cave, with the main lesson being that people like watching dancing shadows on the wall and would rather not have their eyes opened... What do they do to the people who try?

Crucify them of course.

Don't get worked into a religious frenzy Oneironaut, I'm speaking allegorically, afterall.

ps> firefly was pretty cool. Like live action Cowboy Bebop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonStarer420

But why have the tree in the first place? Why not just have norml apple trees? It just seems like an all knowing being would have seen that comming.

---

For all we know, it could have been an apple tree, I actually doubt the fruit its self had any special properties to it. What gave them the knowelage of good and evil was the act of sinning, not obeying God. This act in its self instantly made them realize what they did and then knew what evil was, falling from their perfect state to sin.

To make an example, it would be the same as God saying "Do not eat a blade of grass or you will surly die". It could have been anything he said not to do, it wasn't the fruit or blade of grass its self.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Well I have to say, when they talk about God hating fags, they're just being honest Christians. It's in the Bible, is it not?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." â??Leviticus 18:22

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." â??Leviticus 20:13

Don't all demoninations of Christianity publish this in their books? If they wanted to get rid of the idea that being gay is wrong, they'd stop printing in their books that it's okay to kill gay people. It would be like me distributing copies of Mein Kampf to my followers and wondering why some of them have become anti-Semites. Hate literature spreads hate. If you want to stem the spread of hate, stop spreading hate literature. I can't think of one good logical reason to keep those two passages in your Bibles if you don't believe in discriminating against gays.

---

God hates sin, but loves the sinner.

In other words, according to the bible, God hates homosexuality, but doesn't hate homosexuals. God loves all of his children equally. Don't say that God hates fags cause he hates homosexuality.

Also, in respond to your other posts oneironaut, God does not change his mind on things, we gain a better understanding of what God was trying to say. God did not write the bible. Man wrote the bible. Back then someone could have interpreted God saying,"Homosexuality is a sin" as "Kill all homosexuals". Of course now most of us realize the error of the ancient's ways and have a deeper understanding of what God has said.