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Imagine a blind person trying salvia and having third eye vision or giong into another dimension where he could see. that could prove that its not just in the head.
or maybe trying ahyuasca or Datura
or a deaf person trying an audio hallucinogen
any volunteers???????
I'm not deaf or blind but I like the theory, maybe someone here is able to find a volunteer though?
wait what i didn't quite get the jist of that. what could we prove? I'm sure they'd see the hallucinations, since its all an inner experience anyway
yes but it wouldnt be from memories or mind created hallucinations formed from memories. I think once the person got to the other side "dimension" that they would see the salvia reality complete with beings and buildings and everything.
Dude just cuz people are blind doesnt mean they dont do drugs its been done for hundreds and thousands of years, they report seeing stuff like colors and shades and what not you fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicminor
so tell me all about it then FOOL
did they do Salvia????? did they see the people and not just colors???
did they see the full dimensions?????
You sounded legit for a sec but this last statement totally discredited any knowledge on this subject you might have. You are the fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savako
this is an incredibly interesting theory
well if you went blind at some point, of course you can still see stuff in your mind. I think the real question here (to clarify if necessary), is if a blind or deaf person could see or hear something when they were born that way.
yes I was going to say that in the first place however.....
I had it all typed up into a much bigger version but when I submitted the server was busy and I lost the whole thing :-(.
but yes very good point.....
would a person that was born that way finally be blessed with what it is like to see. I wonder if they dream????
They don't appear to be able to dream in the same way us people who see can.
http://vision.about.com/od/severevis...linddreams.htm
This most likely applies to blind people ingesting hallucinogens as well. There doesn't actually have to be stimuli from the eyes for 'images' to form. Even people who can see may experience synesthesia from hallucinogens, smelling colors, seeing sound etc. I would bet the blind experience more tactile and auditory effects as well.Quote:
But it can be argued that these images are constructs based on input from other senses (and on what the dreamer has been told by the sighted about what these objects look like).
Found one study on blind monkeys
http://www.hallucinogens.com/medsci/blindmonkeys.html
yes but there is something about the Salvia though. Whenever I smoke it I can close my eyes and see a whole other world very detailed like I didnt close my eyes at all. I think it opens the third eye and if it does then a blind person could therefore see with his third eye also. It may not be our dimension that they see but they will know what it is like to see. It would be impossible to prove that they actually did see but they themselves will at least know that they did. I believe Salvia awakens part of the pineal gland.
or get this. If they were blind from birth k. they ve never seen anything in their entire life. can you imagine the colours they would see. because their mind isnt bound by what their eyes see. they would see colours that dont even exist that we could never even think off. it would be pure imagination.
sorry im a little blitzed and im getting into the theory stage. thats weird how it come in stages.
if someone was blind from birth that means they problably wouldnt understand what the concept of a 'color' was and hence when seeing a vision of colors may think they are seeing what the real world looks likeQuote:
Originally Posted by BestTonicIsChronic
but then dont forget this.....
even if a person was blind since birth they still have a soul that may have lived in hundreds of other bodies and not even necessarrily in this reality here.
so maybe it could reawaken the memory of what they have seen before in another life.
I know whenever I travel to the other side theres always that feeling of "here I am in my other life again" . when that happens the other side just feels so normal and this one here is just a movie prop in a way
Well blind people are schooled too, they do have an understanding and could have their own pov and sights on how things rly are, so they could trip with cev most definently, so they of course hullcinate and of course are mind altered just like anyone of us are, except they might imagine different things n see them with cev. Though since they see black all of the time the concept of color exists but they have no way of knowing what every color rly looks like exp. Blue, Green, Red. This is if theyre born blind.
I like this thread.. and this last theory cause i do sometimes believe i have memories from a past lifetime, i mean, i think everybody has, cause i think thats where most dreams come from.. like they did a study about new born babys and how the have brain activity and haveing dreams when they sleep. now what would a new born baby have to dream about other than a past life? just something to think about i guess..Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicminor
I've read articles that most blind people dream about shapes and sizes with actuall color but not during trips, im not sure how they dream these things but there is a document located somewhere on google.com with something like this for the search: Dreams of "Blind" People, I think that does it if not its not hard to find just need to use basic words in search for it to appear. Its fascinating, to bad 6th sense isnt real, but their hearing and touch sure is accute, ah yes the thriving race that is humans, to bad cock roaches beat us. Imagene if we could add an extra chromosome its not just hollywood fantasy, if we actually had an evolutionary chromosome it most likely would create immunity or different intake of chemicals where industry is our life source, dunno evolution is so easy to understand but so magnificant, I want eyes that can see under-water or heat resistant skin capable of surviving extreme temp. or something like Einstein had, evolution within the brain an extra piece that allowed him to make faster, more accurate, and more complicated theories, which were very bright ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by exoticnoise
its kinda like blind people that have sight when they astral project
If you're blind due to an optic nerve problem, and not an occipital lobe problem, then you probably can see shit.
for some reason i dont think many people who have been blind since birth use any drugs
unless somone can prove me wrong?
they probably have a completely different sense of reality than we do
i heard that Einstein had ADD and that he just knew how to control it and use it to make those connections. But i kinda wish a new a truly blind person so i could ask em. They only person close to being blind that i no is this kid in one of my classes and he has only one eye.
o and i checked out the thing on blind people dreaming who have been blind from birth and it says that they dont see in their dreams but the have dreams were they can taste, smell and touch things. srry bout the double post
I wonder how people deaf since birth think. How their thoughts are structured, I mean. For me at least they are words in my head in basically my own voice, but if you've never heard the words?
Shit ya i never thought of that. Also people who speak differant laguages i wondered what english sounds like to them. Cuz i no when i hear a new language ive never heard it sounds like gibberish.
lol yeah I have always wondered kind of thoughts are in a dog's mind. if they have some sort of innner language. and if they did .... what if we could monitor thier brains with computers and somehow have the computer learn thier language so we could use it as a translator and have it tell the dog to go fetch the newspaper or to use the toilet :-).
Read about the first half of this thread, then stopped, just FYI (in case something to this effect was said in the bottom half).
What do you mean, "just" in the head? All experiences are "in the head" (i.e. mental). When a person with normal vision sees, the experience of seeng is in the head - nobody directly experiences their optic nerves sending certain impulses. Most blind/deaf people still have the parts of the brain that interpret experiences of sight and sound; in computer terms, you can think of this as having broken hardware but working drivers. Hallucinogenic experiences can be explained entirely within scientific understanding of the brain.
Note that I'm not saying I think science is everything. I think the idea of people with disabilities exploring mind-altering substances is certainly very interesting, and I can only imagine what a trip would be like for someone who was born blind (or deaf, for audio hallucinogens), but I think trying to "prove" that you "really see" something "real" is the wrong way of going about it. Salvia trips (and other trips, for that matter) are rather subjective and tend not to match up well with our preconceived notions about what is and is not "real."
I have had times on salvia where there were people waiting for me in the other dimensions. these people were normal looking humans and they were talking to me. I could see them as clear as day with most likely my third eye vision. when you are in true soul form there is no such thing as eyes or ears. the true soul form is more like a gas cloud. the soul needs no hardware to sense things.
the thing is when you are born you dont remember being in soul form before you were born.
I beleive Salvia can bring this state back to the user and connect them with the senses of the soul that they can then use to see or hear or taste or touch.