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There is a book I really like. It is the number one seller of ALL time.
I had radio once that had a lot of cool features. The more I READ the manual, the more I learned what it was capable of doing. I read the INSTRUCTION manual... and found out what ALL it did.
Read the Bible...... It's life's instruction manual. :)
God loves u and KraMell does too... and I like weed :) What do u guys think about God, Friend or foe??
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Originally Posted by kramllehctim
Hate to say it, but the Bible is a mistranslated, selectively released version of incomplete scrolls written in a dead language, that were found in caves that used to be underwater. It is a fantastic story, but simply because it claims to be written (by proxy through prophets and such) by the same being that also claims to have created the world does not mean that it should be taken as life's instruction manual. A lot of people could take offense at this...I am not one of them.
I was raised as a Christian, despite the fact that I never believed in it. My father was so obtuse in his thinking that he grounded me for a summer when I wanted to stop going to church...he thought I was lazy, when I had no faith or purpose to go to a place of worship.
Ya man, I totally understand. I was raised to believe "Go to church every Sunday, Don't cuss, Don't smoke, Don't drink.." on and on. Until one day, I decided if God was real, I had to know. I sought whole heartedly to find out, and because I KNOW HIM, I believe. Everyone should seek him, just once. I discoved God don't care what I do (Drink, Smoke ect..) He just wants something better for me :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramllehctim
im glad u found what you believe in
im a seing is believing type
i see the hate in the world
and i know
they aint no god looking down,no master plan
so god is piece of fiction in my eyes made up by old men to controll othere ways of thinking,they aint no god for me,,if so he or she or it has alot to answer for.
if god is real he should be tried as a war criminal.,
look at the religious hate that goes on,,,
ok ill hush,sounding like atheist....
hell i may be one,just i dont belong to any church or non church
peace
theres no religon for me...i was raised southern babtist waaaay to right wing for me...im not left wing either tho...im in the middle,ne how back to religon,in my eyes its all just an illusion we could all be a dude ina coma's crazy ass dream any thing...we have no reasone for existing so maybe we dont? but on the less extream veiw religon is just something to make us feel better...and it may work for some but look at all the problems in the world...all the wars the killing...its all rooted to religon in the end...its rediculus...i could never take another life unless mine was threatend or the lifes of my family senceless killing is just that...religon is no excuse to start war there is no excuse for killing in the end its wrong period no reason for it it makes my sick to here about murders its all so useless life is just a dream we have befor we die....damn it now ive gone and depressed myself...heh more beer i surpose...can god make a mountain so big he himself cannot move it? think about that...
pce 'n' goood tokein'
i beleive in god, theres a passage in the bible that says everything used in moderation and theres a passage that means its our choice wat we put into our bodies, meaning god may not codone smokind and drinking but its our choice and we wont be condemmed for it, this is my personal beleif, and i also beleive god would rather we smoke pot than be stressed out or pissed off alot and its a natural plant not a manufactured thing like coke and acid and sh*t(altought i wanna try acid:)
It also says in the bible you should stone certain people to death for which we consider normal, also it states slavery is ok. I dont think "god" is ok with that personally. Also you wont find even one archeologist that has found more than cursory evidence for that which is stated in the bible ie: sodom and gomorrah's fall the "hebrew slaves who supposedly built the pyramids" apparently too many ancient documents which werent "interpreted" directly contradict the bible, so I'm totally against it. I'm along the lines of Nowhereman ill believe it when i see it. I find it strange "god" found it ok to use giant columns of flame to destroy an egyptian king who didnt even exist at the time they claim, yet he/she/it does nothing now in today's world? All it would take is one appearance and poof we'de behave or be "damned" for eternity. Plus to be honest one mans heaven is anothers hell has a good connotation for myself as I would prefer the biblical hell overr heaven, it seems more fun and its where every ancient philospher would be ie: socrates, plato etc all ancient polytheistic diety worshipping societies would be there as well and I have alot of questions for some Trojans and the "golden horde" (genghis khan and sons). and after all its hard to feel the "burning fire" if I have no nerve endings isnt it?
Does God even understand human american cultural conceptions like left and right wing??? lol....
We're all human and we all fuck up, even our parents, our most respected citizens, our presidents. In fact, the most successful people are successful because they make the most mistakes and they allow themselves to do so.
I doubt God is sitting up there criticizing every person on earth and pointing fingers b/c you love/hate gay people or because you make a lot of money or because you are a communist. lol, God gets dragged into every tiny dispute. It's like 'if you don't listen to me, I'll tell you that God will hate you for doing what in actuality, *I* don't want you to do.' This is the crazy world we live in, where priests molest children and 'good godfearing people' are gun crazy military fanatics.
To find answers, you need to find an objective plane to think on. Don't bother with the institutions, they'll only confuse you and they like to exert authority. The great director Terry Gilliam once said that 'all authority should be undermined'. Its a personal thing, and u know, when you find your happiness, you'll feel like this is what is meant for you, and that is God saying 'hey buddy I'm on your side'.
Forgive my ranting, but I'm just enthusiastic about people believing in something. Even if its just the natural balance of the universe. Even if its the tree in your back yard. Believe in something greater, visualize it, and you will become greater. There is no doubt about it. Focus on the shit in the world, and forget about the good things, and it will kill you no doubt.
I know God as well, and u know, I only take the things from the Bible that speak to me, that ring true...Victors write the history, guys. The Roman Catholic church had a hold of that shit forever, u think they're just going to leave it alone? Or you think they might tweak it a little if it gives them more power and more money in their collection basket? What do you think?
Personally, I'm not a hairshirt fan lol
I read that book cover to cover.
Theres some good life lessons in it and some crazy shit about many headed monsters from hell.
But you can pretty much find a passage to back any old thing up.
Let me ask you this- if we had proof of God, then everyone would be [/B]afraid[B]. Would that not eliminate free choice in your mind? And if we do believe in God, as humans we believe ourselves to be complicated beings, would'nt we believe him to be superior to us? Would'nt that mean we simply would know he would desire our love and not demand it? There would be no reward in that for him, no? The world is the way it is because of our choices everyday, people run the world, not God.
Another point of view- if we empower sinful things , they become more powerful in our lives, growing. Just as now the world is very powerful. Satan was given rule to the earth according to my beliefs, and isn't it obvious. Destruction is taking place, hatred is every where. Therefore if you empower good it will grow. But the world is weighted heavily with evil.
I agree. This is another thought that I had. Lots of times I hear ppl say, "There must be a God because who created the Earth and the sun and the rest of the universe?" My take on this is can't the universe just exist? Does there have to be a beginning? And if there is a beginning, what makes you think it was created by a god...after all humans made up the existence of a god, so how could the world be created by something that never existed before we did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrahydra
How do you know that humans made up the existance of God? As for the universe I don't understand, that is as just as far unprovable as creation, is it not, but with no benifits. Not putting down your opinions in any manner, but I wonder why the subject always goes byastly against God. Possibly that evil is involved in that, enevitably in my view.
I just saved 15% of my time by skipping to the end to post. The Good News is... nobody is going to make you believe anything. I have wasted who knows how much time answering the skeptics who already know all the answers, and whom also rarely refer to any particular varifiable source to bolster their comments. The anti-Bible sentiment is rampant here. There are answers that are well reasoned for those who are seeking the only one true God. But, for those who aren't interested, why do you waste your time with all the worn-out rhetoric about the Bible? Is somebody trying to force you to believe it? :cool:
Dude, when you 'believers' get asked a question you cant answer, you say "god works in mysterious ways" or "who are we to question god?" or some such thing. Isn't that what youre accusing us 'skeptics' of? Faith is just believing in something that there is no evidence of.. in other words, a fairy tale.. i'll believe in unicorns before i believe in godAt the end of the day, i agree %100 with you, Stooj.. i think we should believe in something, but something infallable, something that isnt just make believe... or we'll spend our lives going nowhere, feeling empty.. i havent found that thing yet, but i will, and i know it wont be "God". peace guys
I agree with you, Ghost. 'God' is no more real than the tooth fairy. I'm not going to waste my life trying to appease someone or something that has never been there for me. No way.Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR
As for what to believe in.. well, I already know what I believe in.
Myself.
I am the only person I can trust 100%. I am the only person who has looked out for me my whole life. I already know that I will always do my best to never let myself down. I believe in me. :)
hey ive let myself down loads of times.. im tryin to get past that... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by clevemire
no i cant read, or writeQuote:
Originally Posted by kramllehctim
ooops i mean ummm feufhwfherghkd j er gjerg jergjer gjeger
i dont beleive in teh bible and i dont beleive in relgious writings and watnot, i could go on why the christian relgion issa pile of shit but i dont wanna offend, the thing is i beleive god is in everyone hes your concious as it were, u noe wats right and wats wrong but you do wat u want, i do not beleive one superior being rules all, i beleive that were here hes somewhere, he dont grant prayers or punish the unruly or ntn
MEANING TO LIFE+THE CHURCH=MISSAPROPREATION
I love it when people says that God has to exist, cos who else made all of this...to which i normally reply with: who made God then?
I have a bit of an idea of what i believe in, and i'm not so sure if God is one of them...the thing that mostly pisses me off is that the bible is the view of a bunch of people who felt inpired by God and believed that he is using them as a tool, etc. when in fact it could be just a load of bull...i'm serioulsy starting to confuse myself here and I'm not even stoned...lol...
I just feel that it would be very sad if all of this is it and it's as good as it's gonna get...maybe the whole higher being theory i just something we made up to make ourselves feel better about the end and what maybe come after it...
Couldnt have put it better myself :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray
Yeah, you ask a question long enough someone will come up with something, wrong or right.
I beleive in grass and the sun and photosynthesis. sun shines grass grows eat shit and die all happy and lovin. :D
ahh the simple life.
If our chimp ancestors hadnt eaten the magic mushrooms and started tripping out none of this higher conciousness stuff would have happened.
"wow man, an opposable thumb...heavy..."
"hey bobo, doesnt the sun look like the face of a big loving ape mother looking down on us?" etc
If God did exist he would fully understand any human conception (such as a party alignment). Isn't that basically what "God" means: a being superior in every way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stooj
But sadly I don't think God exists. I think it is hopeful to believe in a higher being but it is very unlikely. I mean isn't it completely obvious that religion is created by humans? Where is God? That is my real question. Every fucking religion out there "conveniently" avoids ever having God present. It is like there is an excuse or a "scripture" that covers that subject in every religion. Religion is a hoax that was created to benefit the rich elite and to ravish the poor majority. You know if there were no religious beliefs on this planet, Planet Earth, then there would be a LOT less violence. Almost every atrocity can be traced back to religion. Itâ??s ironic isnâ??t it? Religion is based on being a good person, treating others well, being humble and suchâ?¦ But religion is the biggest problem in this world.
the bible (in my oppinion) is the same thing as ppl 200 years from now finding a grimm brothers fairy tale book and worshipping it thinking that the characters are holy and going to church every sunday and having a mass about how the crocodile talked to the bear blah blah blah its all made up how come none of that religious miracles and religious leaders (ex. moses and jesus) have come in the past 2000 years? its just hard for me to belive if this doesnt make sense im very high right now
I beleive that at a point in time long ago god did have more power on earth. I think there was a time when everyone had his love inside them and followed the way of life described in the bible.
Currently satan's influence on human beleifs and the world around us has cursed the world, causing us to not have the capasity for belief that we once had. The fact is, as the world comes to understand god better and people start to love as the bible teaches, the veil of misunderstanding will begin to lift. As more and more people learn how to live in the present, not concerning themselves with the past, and not trying to predict the future, god will gain more influence. The more man tries to control their life the harder it is for god to have any effect on them. When all your will is shifted to doing and saying the right "loving" thing it will have an effect on the people around you. That is a fact. We must fight hard to suppress hate and negativity, these things block god's love.
thats so funny it hurts.. so, we're not supposed to control our own lives? who is then? oooh let me guess, the church right? aaaaaaahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Wheemer
you are supposed to empty yourself and have peace in your heart. Then destiny can guide you. The only thing you should be "controlling" or suppressing is your will to do wrong.
It may be true that god gave people free will, but in this free will you also allow evil to enter. It will be the replacement of free will with god's will that will lead this world back to the paradise it once was.
Religon is in place to control the masses-they will be under control if they believe when they die they go to a better place. Of course you would need to be very high before you even started to belive this. Because we are self aware we can't face the fact of non existance once we die. People simply believe what they want to believe.
not to shoot you down but the bible is filled with child sacrifices, genocide, stoning women and much more!:eek: nothing in there about compassion towards our enviroment, only exploitation of the species we share this planet with...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheemer
just my humble personal opinon on the topic..
Wow what a closed minded bunch! You already have all the answers. What was I thinking? Did you all eat lunch before or after your long periods of religous study? It's ubundandly evident that many of you on the site are outrageously biased against the Bible in particular and/or the particular God it represents. I can't wait to hear all the clever bashing and character assasinations in rebuttal to this assertion. In the end it will still be clear that you have chosen to disbelieve for other reasons and not because there is no evidence, which of course, there is. What else explains your caustic remarks and attitudes? It's a shame for you, but your choice. Good luck with that. :cool:
That about sums it up for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Razer
Dont get mad at people who dont believe in God or Jesus.. if you want US to believe, then prove it.. its not my responsibility to disprove the existence of God, (there is no need - only a lack of any evidence whatsoever), its your responsibility to prove it! And if you cant, well then it should be taken with a pinch of salt
Almost every single religion out there what they only really want people to believe is that they are right they spend more time worrying about other religions being wrong and trying to prove this than teaching what they believe. Its all a game of right and wrong where every one is wrong. The only belief i have now is that i am in control of my life, what happens in my life is due to the choices i have made, and the goal of my life is to be happy and fufill my desires not the desires of a fictional character.
Oh yeah and to smoke weed every day. Cause its a natural resource and because a few people dont like it they shoudlnt be able to change the way of life millions of other people choose. My life is mine i will not let it be influenced by ignorant fools. I suggest you do the same.
While I'm not one to tote the magestics of the bible or support stupid "satan is influencing our lives, god is vengeful" rhetoric, I do believe in God. It saddens me when a forum full of suposedly open minded stoners (I mean you naturally have to have an inquisative mind in order to try this "harmful drug" and have the ability to see beyond what you're told) have completly shut their minds off from the possibility of a higher power. You want proof? Just look around you. Everywhere the world is so complex and so maticoulsly joined together that there's no way it could have possibly all been a coincidence that just sort of happened. Someone, or something (ie God), had to plan and guide the creation of the world that surrounds us today.
Simple example, the oxygen molecule normally bonds to form O2, or two oxygen atoms together. However, in our atmosphere is present a large abundence of O3 aka ozone. Normally oxygen doesn't bond to form units of three but somehow a giant ammount of it found it's way into our atmosphere EXACTLY where it was needed in order to block out the sun's harmful radiation and allow life on earth. How likley is it that so much of an un-natural molecule would end up there? This is just one example but there are millions more of seemingly random occurances that took place in exactly the right time and exactly the right ammount to allow life and evolution.
Another thing, look at math for instance. A perfect represantation of the world around us, a world which is always imperfect. A window, perhaps, a higher bieng, a higher order of existence. But that's more theoretical than anything so I won't go any further than that.
Here's another thing for you non believers to think about. In logic it's impossible to prove that something does not exist. If something isn't there where's your evidence for it? It's not there, but maybe it's elsewhere, how can you prove it?
Now what do I believe specifically? I'm catholic, but I don't indulge in the "details" of my religion, I'm refering mainly to all the pain, suffering, and monsters from the old testament. What I do believe is that God exists, he created me (or perhaps more apropriately allowed for my existance) with a purpose in mind. His love for me is eternal and as long as I share that love for him and for my fellow man that is all that is required of me. If i fuck up, if i do something greedy and stupid that hurts someone else, then I can always go back to God and ask for forgivness, and he will always forgive me if I truely wish to be forgiven.
I'm not asking you to believe what I just wrote, I'm simply asking you to re-analyze your life and realize that there must be more to it than just life, death, and nothingness.
Hopefully that made some sense.
ah..well...i think god is everything... dirt, plants, you, me, planes, the galaxy, the universe of universes. i don't believe in the "nothingness" idea, either. my thoughts. :)
This is always an interesting topic and I generally find IF you have a different opinion than others you are wrong - I guess I don't claim to be smart enough to claim I know specifically which or if there is a higher being. I believe your spirituality is where you find it and how you find you inner peace and I respect others right to believe what they wish - AS LONG AS YOU DON"T THINK I HAVE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU DO OR YOU ARE NOT USING YOUR PARTICULAR RELIGON TO CREATE LAWS THAT EFFECT MY LIFE.
Spirituality is very personal and everyone has different view and yes, some of us do read, I've looked at many different religons, I don't believe anyone can truely understand their religon and say their way is the only way without exploring others also - matter of fact it seems rather closed-minded to me. One way isn't the only way - and I have studied the Christian religion. Matter of fact I have attended many different churches when I was younger, Hell I was even Baptized when I was 12. So here are a few thoughts from someone who does read and has studied many religions, many of which are older than Christianity, Christianity is a very young religion compared to many and the conclusions from a middle-aged stoner.
I tend to believe that there is some structure to this chaos - controled by what I will never claim to be smart enough to say, I think if a person does believe in a particular God (and there is more than just one, any other thought is just niave) you are convicted enough in your belief that you would have to assume everyone else is incorrect - otherwise you conviction in your particular god isn't that strong.
I tend to think, if there is a god they are all one in the same, we all initially came from different cultures and different backgrounds and spoke different languages, so it makes sense we all would have different gods. Call it what you will, not to fond of labels either, but in almost every culture throughout history there is a belief in a higher being, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Native American, Hindu, Bhuddist, Greek, Roman, Aztec, Incas and so on - That belief can be rooted in a being or nature - nature I at least can see - It's more tangible.
I also tend to believe that I personally could never follow any doctrine written by man - men lie and use things (and I am male, wouldn't want the wrong conclusion drawn) to manipulate for their own purposes. I personally have a real problem with the Bible, especially the King James version, a document that has been perverted from original scriptures for the exact purpose of controlling the masses, It even exists because a MAN decided his interpretation of the bible was different than the one that existed at the time.
Out of all the religions I have studied one thing is consistant and apparent, If you live your life with good intentions good things will happen to you - and in every organized religion this one thing is consistant - I'll use the term the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - may be worded differently but it's in every religion I know about. But after that things begin to break down.
I guess my biggest problem with Christianity is put your faith in a higher being and things will be taken care of - what about personal responsibilty - If that were really the case why exist and why do anything - If God is going to take care of it and everything is pre-ordained, why exist. And I have a problem with any religion that uses guilt as a control tool. And the whole concept of hell was rediculous to me even at the age of ten - Believe in a kind and loving God or he will send you to eternal damnation - If thats how God operates I'll pass - and why give us freewill to choose - (I know it's actually more involved than that.
Another reason I had a problem with Christianity, was after reading the Bible, I found Jesus was pretty cool, but I find the Biblical God to be childish, vengeful and at times almost hateful to the beings he supposedly created - I could never worship a being like that - nor would I want to - too much guilt.
Fundamentalist Christians (the most frightening of all the religious groups) say evolution doesn't exist, another myth, look around you all species have and do constantly evolve, seems like God would have set up the system and evolution makes perfect sense, it exists in nature and if God created all nature then why wouldn't it be so, seems like a pretty logical idea for an all knowing all powerful creator.
I tend to prefer the Bhuddist philosophies, wherein what you do in life determines what happens to you - you get what you give - but it puts the responsibility on yourself if your intentions are good good things tend to happen - a much more positive approach I think - and doing nothing accomplishes nothing - praying to solve a problem always bothered me, praying is honestly putting faith in some thing else to take care of your responsibilities - what has the individual done to attempt to solve their problem - personable accountability - I know its a fading idea but it does work - and generally if you attempt to solve your own problems, with or without help - you feel better about yourself and are closer to inner peace and really isn't that what spirituality all about in the first place?
Just a few random thoughts from someone who does read and actually gives it some thought - and I don't care if you disagree it's fully your choice - but am I wrong - you don't know and for that matter I don't know - a belief is just a thought process, It may be one you feel, but it doesn't mean it is correct. Just a few thoughts.
Be Well
and razer the above post does explain my caustic remarks and attitudes, just because someone doesn't believe in a particular god does not mean they are incorrect - some of us do think!!!!!
sorry...but i couldnt be fucked to read all that. But im impressed at your tenacity