Proof: the retarded man's pipe dream.

ok, i have to start of by saying you cant justify murder by killing someone.


take this logic into account when reading on.




why do we need proof for things? granted, given reassurance, it makes things easier to accept...


but... how do we go about proving things?


well for one thing, all things nothing, according to quantum physics, so how can we prove anything at all?


how can we justify the reality of one thing, by using the existance of another THING?


the only proof we have or need is our minds, all else is just a product thereof. :)





disclaimer: this sounded a lot more intelligent in my head, before my thoughts lost track of the words i was thinking.

At least, maybe, if you read it again, it will sound better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

ok, i have to start by killing someone.


take this logic we need proof for things we go about proving things


well for one thing, all things nothing, according to quantum physics, so how can we prove anything at all?


how can the existance of another THING is our minds, all else is just a product thereof. :)





disclaimer: this intelligent head, lost words thinking.

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what? it's not as retarded as i thought? lol


thanks, but see... i remember thinking it up, and it sounded about 100 times more understandable and logical when i was thinking it, which felt like i lost in the thought-to-word transition lol


a simple question, "is it really not that dumb", has to be 500 words long :D

wow this thread seems like it should have garnered more attention... lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

well for one thing, all things nothing, according to quantum physics, so how can we prove anything at all?

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i dont have an answer for ya, and i am no physicist... but i thought that all 'things' when broken down far enough become pure energy... which is intangible, but still a thing.. .technically :) everything is simply pure energy in one form or another

yeah, i dunno, that was hearsay anyways im no physicist either lol

How are things defined is a better question. Things are defined in negatives.

What is a dog?

Idk.

I just know it's not a cat, or a person, or a monkey, or a blender.

Quantum physics does indeed reveal that the universe on a submicroscopic scale does operate according to fuzzy logic, in which effects don't need to have causes and where things exist only in probabilities, but the averages of all these probabilities over macroscopic space gives rise to a very reliable set of physics called Newtonian physics which dictates the activities of pretty much everything we deal with on a day-to-day basis.

The real reason why we can't prove anything 100% is because we are all beings experiencing the objective world subjectively. I can't even prove to myself that the external world exists, but for all practical purposes the assumption works just fine and the alternative explanation seems extremely unlikely. Even if it were true it would not have much effect on things.

But while it is impossible to prove things 100%, we can prove things to be very likely true, and that is the basis of science. By observing the universe carefully and using the rules of logic we can uncover theories, that is, working models of how the universe operates, that are extremely likely but still potentially falsifiable. That means that any scientifically valid theory must be constructed in such a way that it could be proven wrong if it is. It is only by this process that we can progress in our knowledge and enjoy all the advances that science has given us.

then science is no more plausable and no less ignorant than religion.

and the "preogress" science has offered us has become a black hole for negative mental, physical and spiritual health.

we've become lazy, where faith made us work to survive. i think faith trumps science.

I knew this would bring Oneironaut around when I read your post, stoner.

Oneironaut, how does it feel knowing that you are on shaky ground making claims about everything?

Your atheistic rants seem to have lost a little of their sway, now.

Because it's still just faith.

Science is a relgion that incorporates itself into other religions. Or, for us agnostics, it is a system of beliefs that ties itself into other systems.

Oneironaut, you can no longer stand on a high horse, rooting all you know in what is "proven"...

Because the universe as we know it, might be totally wrong and different.

shut up, jake. :D

oneironaut surely has something to prove me wrong, let's wait for it before we get all conclusive now :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P.E.N.G.U.I.N.

Because the universe as we know it, might be totally wrong and different.

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right, key words as we know. we all experience the same world subjectively.. so what one group holds to be true may not be for another group, and so on...

I know, but I'm just pointing out that just because Oneironaut can back his things up with scientific proof, he's no safer in his beliefs than anyone else.

hehe yeah... why hasnt he replied? :( i thought this thread was goin' places... lol

My question is why the hell does any of it matter? We are in the phsyical world right now... when we die, when we return to the place from which we came. There is nothing we can do now except train our minds and ourselves for what awaits us on the other side. Also, I understand the point of conversations like these, heck I was a big fan of them until not to long ago. But what do we expect to do? Unlock the secret of the universe through some talk? First of all, even if it were possible, one day to find out how exactly things went down, what would happen upon that discovery? Think of the controversy, the rioting that would take place among people of different beleifs... Man as we know it could perish. So I say, meditate, explore your concioiusness, and most importantly have fun. You'll find out the secret when you die, or so that's what I'd like to beleive.

who's looking for secrets? im just trying to level the playing field a little lol