LED grow lights... input please.

Hello guys,

I'm exchanging eMails with a representative from a LED company. I asked him if they could produce a custom light for growing, and here's what he told me:

Our options are as follow:
940nm, 850nm, 660nm, 630nm, 610nm, 590nm
570nm, 530nm, 510nm, 470nm, 460nm, 400nm
and a total of 64 LEDs in the bulb.



I've got in my grow notebook the following quote from a post:::
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
for good growing you need blue, red and deep red spectrum. for clorophile A you need 400-430nm of blue and 650-670 nm of red. for clorophile B you need 420-470 nm of blue and 620-650 nm of red.
peak absorbtions are at A: 425 and 660 nm, and at B: 450 and 630.
the power of spectrum should be stronger in red spectrum (arround 85-90%), others arround 5% of each. i did some test grows, but i only used 470 and 630 spectrum and the plants looked just fine. if you give them all the spectrum (for A and B type), they will grow even better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What do you guys think? I think this is great oportunity, they're offering to build a couple of prototypes so we can test them out. At the very least, we're all going to win from this.

There are two threads I'm following on the boards of Overgrow.com about LED lights, but it's just a mess in those boards. I preffer to discuss this here with you guys.

As to the power, the anlges of the LEDs, the soldering, voltage, amperages, etc. I'm pretty sure we'll hammer that out with the company engineers.

What I'm looking in this thread is some solid advice on what would be our best trial run... what LEDs to use?

I don't know what you think, but initially, I'm thinking we should try two types of bulbs: One for vegetative growth (blue). The other for flowering (red).
Suggestions?

Thanks,

-turtle420 :cool:

LED...

as in .. light emitting diodes?

That would make no sense...

Looking into it Turtle..

helps to checkout the link first i guess..

Bulbs composed of LED's.. interesting.... extremely interesting..

for those who don't really know what LED's are.. they're in pretty much every electronic device now.. anything with a green,red or blue little light. (ie.keyboard,monitor,printer,tv..etc)

Keep us updated man.. very interesting

I could see the use.. but the logistics of it are beyond me.

Actually, it would...

LEDs are shitload more efficient than incandescent bulbs... and CFLs... and HPS... and MH...

BobBong,
This would be a big panel with 64 LEDs... not some small thing with 3 or 4 LEDs...

Among the adantages of LEDs:
-Very little heat (CFLs are pretty hot, compared to LEDs)
-very efficient (if have 400W of LEDs... Jesus! You'll have a mini-sun!)
-They produce narrow frequencies of light, instead of many colors of light

Thanks for the input Bob! Here's a link you might find interesting:
http://www.ledgrowlights.com/GrowlightKits.htm
But again, we're looking to make something better than what these guys have.

Keep those brains turning!

Hey, if it will help the plants grow better Im all for it. Im not very smart with all of that technical stuff but I am an experianced grower. I would love to test the light. Anything better that my MH and HPS I would love to try out.Peace out and keep us updated. :)

BudMan, BobBong,

Excellent! I'm waiting on the input from growers with more technical knowledge (Zandor!!!) to give us some input.

All the updates should be here, as it's from here that I'll be taking the information to send over to the LED company.

Thanks guys,

-turtle420 :cool:

Bumpity bump? Please, this could be good... Some input, please.

Which LED wavelengths would you pick?

from what i understand and have read, it`s not been researched enough to give dependable results, it all sounds good on paper, sounds like it would work, but i havent seen anything that proves it to be better yet. i`m sure it will and that they would cost an arm and a leg to aquire.
as far as your experience goes turtle, dont get your First grow all confused up with all these new ways, they may all be good ways, but keep it simple the first time around and as your experience grows, so will your actual growing knowledge, reading up on that stuff is real good to do(it seems like you have done alot of that)but there aint nothing like actual hands on experience.
good luck on your future grows

NotaNovice,

Thanks for the suggestion ;)

I'm not aiming to use these LEDs in this 1st grow of mine... What I was thinking is that we can try and come up with the best wavelength solution, then order up three or four bulbs... Then, some of us, try this as a side-experiment.

No, you're right... I wouldn't (and won't) replace my HPS/MH with these LEDs for this grow... but if I get my hands on them? Ufff... I'll build another cabinet in one day! Not so much airflow needed... etc. etc. etc...

Thanks for the input Nota!

some of these new taillights (red) in color put out alot of light, and they are already built into a reflective base, worth a shot.

Yeah, definitely...

I think that our advantage here is that we can build a custom light. There are various wavelengths of red (nm), ... the company I'm speaking with has LEDs that are able to produce the ones listed at the top of this thread.

I don't think people in these boards actually are understanding the situation:
Yes, it's new stuff, un-proven... BUT, the company is on OUR side... They're willing to go the extra mile (making custom bulbs!!!) for us... they know, and we know, it's a win/win situation.

I think I'm going to pick some wavelengths to the best of my abilities, and ask the company for a price quote on that prototype. Once I've got that, if it isn't too much $$$, I'll fork it over to them, and as soon as I receive the bulb, I'll do a controlled-setup grow to see how it turns out.

One thing I'm thinking, from a marketing success point of view, is that we shouldn't ask the company to cram both vegetative and flowering wavelengths into ONE bulb. Growers nowadays are acustomed to having bulbs for veg and bulbs for flowering... Even if it's better, I would preffer to have one bulb for veg (blue) and one bulb for flowering (red).

Now, I'm thinking:
VEGETATIVE bulb --->
................90% blue nm
................10% red nm
..........nm....# LEDs
..........630...2
..........660...2
..........400...30
..........460...30

FLOWERING bulb --->
................90% red nm
................10% blue nm
..........nm....# LEDs
..........630...30
..........660...30
..........400...2
..........460...2

Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-turtle420 :cool:

ok I have looked into this and the perception is its a 2 to 1

shit... anyway the perception is its a 2 to 1 ratio in favor of the red lights. Now im not sure if you get the different colored lights because the glass is that color or the bulbs themselves are of a different spectrum of light any idea's? they have some on ebay right now only from 1 person though for 85 bucks for blues and 119 for reds (ouch) I think I like my idea better and build it out of one of those reflective tail lights. my car actually has those exact same kind of led lights, and they are bright as fuck. you can replace each of those little lights (theres hundreds) with any color you care too (still wondering about the spectrum though).

in fact I have seen those same damm lights on the back of trucks they look like red reflectors but they have the bright led dots all over them when they turn on there lights you seen those? those would be cheap and commercially available.

Seedbare,

Yeah man... I know the tailights that you're talking about... Mercedes Benz have started using them for about 3-4 years (I think). And I've seen since about 2 years ago many retrofit bulbs made out of LEDs but for the normal bulbs' sockets. I've seen those especially in the tailights of public transport buses... they've replaced their normal bulbs with those LED paneled lights... And I've also seen them on traffic lights... Instead of that HUGE 10/12" incandescent bulb, now they've got a circular panel of LEDs... they look prettier...

Anyways, back to our point:
They make the different colors depending on the materials they use for the LED themselves. Those are n-type and p-type semiconductors with a special mix in the middle... when they vary different elements in that "special mix", they get different colors. Of course, they also color the plastic housings to 'give' more color to the, um, color.

I don't know if we're looking at the same eBay lights, but yeah, $$$ !!!

Your ratio of 2:1, I think, is right on. But we can by-pass that by using different bulbs: one for vegetative (blue) and one for flowering (red). That's why I picked the 90%/10% ratios on our hypothetical bulbs above. I would imagine that during flowering, the plants need at least some blue light... Same as during vegetative, the plants need some red light.

I don't know SeedBare... please keep on thinking about this. I'd really like to come up with some sort of 'bulb' specifications to send this company... They build the bulbs, we test them out.

Looking forward to you opinion SeedBare... :)

-turtle420 :cool:

I also have another crazy idea i have seen led christmas lights (without a colored lens) in dollar stores I say get about a dozen of these strings of lights arrange them in a circle tie with some duct tape and wala a perfectly useable grow light, im sure they sell them in reds and blues.. I would want to confirm they can grow plants....

the big advantage to these bulbs is they claim they grow plants as well as hid lighting, they are very energy effiecient 10watts instead of 1000watts they are cool (no airconditioning, fans) which means no helicoptors picking up heat signatures, now they do make uv led lights I wonder if that's what there using??? they dont depend upon lumens but upon the wavelength of light (they claim 100% usage of wavelength) now this all sounds well and good but the real test would be growing with them.

Seedbare,

What bulbs/systems are you looking @ that claim 100% usage of wavelength?

Can you provide a link? Are we talking about the ones @ eBay?

it could have been the ebay site on there store at ebay they have some stuff on them Ill look and come back and tell you, Ive been looking at alot of sites though.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...g+plants&hl=en

hey turtle420 I found some really cheap led bulbs that fit standard 120v socket (are you in the states?) in red and blues (these people have got to be selling them for this purpose) anyway they range from 7 to 23 bucks, I can email you the link if youd like. so I dont believe it will be necessary to have something created and its cheaper this way anyway.

SeedBare,

Very very usefull... interesting... reading it right now...

As to sending me he link, yes please; ineedit06 at hushmail.com
Yeah, I'm in the states.

Reading right now... I'll re-post in a little while... ;)

We're on to something seedbare! I tell you! We're on to something!

superbrightleds.com

some of those bulbs you use with the 12vdc thing you plug into the wall, but some of them use standard 120vdc not all of the bulbs are the right ones just the ones in which you can choose the color (hate to point out the obvious but hey)

some of those bulbs you use with the 12vdc thing you plug into the wall, but some of them use standard 120vdc not all of the bulbs are the right ones just the ones in which you can choose the color (hate to point out the obvious but hey)[/QUOTE]On that site it says "We do not offer anything bright enough for general household lighting. LED bulbs are used for accent and other low light applications." They can't be appropriate for growing.

growing with led's has nothing to do with lumens or brightness. it has to do with wavelength.

Guys,

Just blow this off if it has no bearing but two things came to mind from this novice's collected fragments of info on grow lighting.

1. Is that often mentioned rule of thumb applicable to other bulb types where isn't overall wattage supposed to be a significant measure of growing capability?

2. Other thing was the prism effect in nature... suggesting here that in considering a selection of wave lengths you - being more familiar with basic fundamentals than me - could prob refine estimated wave lengths on the basis of calculating differences in angles - seasonal changes - and then finding the true or existing data on the refraction and prismatic effects of the atmosphere - and somehow come by better figures for the wavelengths that way.

Sorry if totally inapplicable tho.

turtle420, did you get the impression that we would be stuck with the round format? Would there be any advantages to rectangular arrays?

Nice find tho, really interesting, given the reduced heat advantages.
All the exhaust/blower $$$ could go back into the lighting but I'd definitely downplay that aspect in discussions with the R&D dudes.

Out.

Yeah according too the led light study you would need about 216 (around there) watts of led lighting to equal 1 1000w hps light.

someone in the uk is selling the rectangular red led's cheaply just search under led lights at ebay and you'll get about 31,000 hits. from everything I have seen so far you would need to buy many many led bulbs to equal 200 watts

Rezinator,

I think that the rule of thumb of watts for growing capability, does apply.

As to the different wavelengths just as in nature... the idea kicks-ass. It would be very cool to have an LED array that, instead of turning ON/OFF, could start shutting off individual LEDs in the time-frame of, say, 30 minutes. So, during those 30 minutes, the plants will get a quasi-sunset effect, with different colors of light and everything. Interesting...

As to the round/rectangular array... yes, that's one of the advantages that we can have... we can basically build any kind of shape with these LEDs. I would preffer round for simplicity... BUT, ideally? I would have rectangular shaped panels of LEDs. You could hang those on top of the plants and on the sides... I mean, one of these panels will probably be about 1, maybe 2 inches thick. So they will be pretty versatile regarding mounting options.

I can envision a grow cabinet with all the walls and the "roof" covered in LED panels... wow... those plants must really get some wavelengths!

Over and out... keep us updated everyone!

-turtle420 :cool:

PS: Sorry if this post is kind of incoherent... I'm still half-asleep.

what are you trying to do? save money on electricty?

grow your own marijuana, the regular way and give up on your led dream

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seattle420

what are you trying to do? save money on electricty?

grow your own marijuana, the regular way and give up on your led dream

---

Thanks for your input seattle. :)

Hey Turtle... just get a couple lights and try it.. shit... you don't need to grow MJ... just get one of those bulbs and put it in a desk lamp and try some tomatoes.. or even better yet get a tomato clone...
worth doing just to say .. you did it!!! noty the stealing part,, the led part

love is you

i feel that the theoretical phase has to end somehow. just one guy saying "i'm growing mj s now, and leds are working well.", will be a great enthusiasm for all of us.

my place is not proper for growing anymore. but i think i'll find a place to use these leds as fast as i can.

With lights I have found that from 400, to 600 there is a different in the plant and thc and from 600 to 1000 the same:one plant... and at this point I'm working with some LED on 12 VDC at what would be about 1750 to 1800 watts. with some UV light in the mix and so far they are doing supper good. the grand kids broke my cam os i'm sol and can't send pic. after I buy the LED's every thing is on 12 VDC fans pumps all... and I found the cooler you keep the led's they last longer... this is the first grow this way. there on 24/0 then 12/12 in 3rd week so far. from seeds about 6 1/2'' to 7'' tall. fat coles.. just make shur you get the right things in the LED's,,, SOME are FU*KED for what you are doing.

there are a few threads about people growing with led's on overgrow.com (use the search engine there)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by litespeed

With lights I have found that from 400, to 600 there is a different in the plant and thc and from 600 to 1000 the same:one plant... and at this point I'm working with some LED on 12 VDC at what would be about 1750 to 1800 watts. with some UV light in the mix and so far they are doing supper good. the grand kids broke my cam os i'm sol and can't send pic. after I buy the LED's every thing is on 12 VDC fans pumps all... and I found the cooler you keep the led's they last longer... this is the first grow this way. there on 24/0 then 12/12 in 3rd week so far. from seeds about 6 1/2'' to 7'' tall. fat coles.. just make shur you get the right things in the LED's,,, SOME are FU*KED for what you are doing.

---

LiteSpeed,

When you get a cam, can you post pics ASAP? Please... These LEDs that your using... did you fabricate them your self?

You say you have about 1800 watts... of LEDs?! How big is the setup?
And about those fans and pumps... ??? Have you found that the LEDs have to be cooled? As to they last longer::: about what the average lifespan of your LEDs?

What wavelengths (nm) are you using?

Can we get some pictures? Pretty please...

puter fans on the base of the led 20c. low 60's or lower. they will last from 5 to 7 years, all fish tank stuff reworked to 12 VDC heaters pumps, timers, car heater fan for plant. friend is a (EE) did most of the work for me there 6 lights 8 inch each and cover the plant. 4 sides and 2 on top this is only a trial to see what they will do if it works or not. need a battery-charge and battery. Lights 400 to 500nm and 575 to 700nm and the UV's I don't remember what they are. the set is 4' X 4' X 8' hight.
sorry about the pictures the grandkids broke the cam. and I 'm on fix income. where i'm at one plant will get you $2,500 first time and 1 year jail. They let the meth cookers go free. we have 30 DEA in town looking for the green, man they have got 6 18 whellers full so far in a town of 350 people. and they said they can not burn it here for it will put the people in the hospital they say it is worst then PCP. if they burn it. all B S...

Fuck damn litespeed... that town of yours seems fucked up by the DEA. Hope they leave soon. Stay safe.

But on another note; you're a town that so far, the DEA has hauled out six 18-wheelers full of weed... you bunch of stoners! LoL!!!

Hey man, sounds very intereseting your setup. Please keep us up to date when possible ;)

Is this your first LED grow?
Is this your first cannabis grow? (just asking)
Have you noticed major differences in???::: growing speed? flowering?

Question (yet another one): Do you 'divide' your bulbs and turn them on at different times? Or do your turn on the entire LED setup at once? . . . I mean, do you have special LEDs for flowering, and others for vegetative? Or do you follow the entire grow cycle with the full set of LEDs?

Sorry for such many questions... Thanks for the possible answers!

Looking forward to your comments,

-turtle420 :cool:


Here are two threads I'm following over @ Overgrow.com:
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthr...?pagenumber=29
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthr...5?pagenumber=5

I have been growin since the 60.
This is the first with LED. at a little over 3 weeks.
so far it looks like they are growing a little faster then with HID & HPS. all I can do is wate & C :D :cool:
have not got to the sex or flowering yet. this is from seeds.
The LED's Lights 400 to 500nm and 575 to 700nm and the UV's spectrum one light for every thing.
as the plant grows I will turn on more light. there are only 4 on it now. out of 6. we set the lights up like the (Sun) out side. duplicatethe Sun... the double EE say's I'm not the sharpest knife and i tell him he has No common sense. and we get long fine. electronic is not my thing, so have to leave that to some one that knows it. The threads your following over @ Overgrow.com: and what you post here he said look good. and we are talking about doing the 2 light way also. 1 for grow and 1 for flowering. He thinks that the all in one is the better way to go there 2 that has more red and 2 that have more blue all I can do is see what they do...
as for stoners, this part of tn puts out all most as much as cal. in green. last year they say this part sold about 2.5 B thats after the dea/th come here.

Seems like a more expensive route than HID's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trichome Creator

Seems like a more expensive route than HID's.

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Definitely my good friend.

I think we're still about 4 or 5 years off using LEDs for grows. I've seen insane setups in Overgrow.com of about 5,000 LEDs... ALL soldered by HAND?!!!!

Sorry, but I preffer to cough up some $$$ than to make 10,000 soldering points. But, tCreator, please keep us updated with the LED thoughts that cross your mind. I'm still very much interested. Maybe as supplementals.
??? :) Great to see you posting here!!!