Total Dehumanization In China

[align=left]http://prisonplanet.com/articles/sep...manization.htm[/align]

[align=left]i don't know, some might consider this freedom and progress...mobile death vans, slave labor camps...hopefully America gets this kind of freedom, the sooner the better.[/align]


[align=left]Executed political dissidents organs and body parts sold to the west; US government not concerned[/align]
[align=left]One of the primary agendas of the global elite is to plunge the soul of humanity into an abyss of decadence.[/align]

[align=left]When the human race ceases to operate on any kind of moral compass the gateway is opened for evil influences to step in and take the place of the naturally occurring healthy human motivations and aspirations.[/align]

[align=left]How dehumanization manifests and its catalysts are multifaceted but included below are several recent and historical examples of how, through intentional disregard of human life and the value of the human spirit, our minds are being conditioned to accept what are on the surface bizarre developments as being normal.[/align]

[align=left]The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners[/align]
London Guardian

[align=left]A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered[/align]

[align=left]State Department says organ harvesting is an urban legend[/align]
State Department

[align=left]The State Department cites Organ Transplantation and harvesting as an "Urban Legend", saying there is no evidence for it. Here's a lengthy report on the subject by David J. Rothman, Bernard Schoenberg Professor of Social Medicine and History at Columbia University. Rothman says "in China officials profitably market organs of executed Chinese prisoners." [/align]

[align=left]Here is a list of every mainstream media source you could think of reporting on the issue http://www.vachss.com/help_text/organ_trafficking.html[/align]

[align=left]The State Department carried a piece on its own website admitting organ harvesting yet they then claim it to be an urban legend! http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/2001/3792.htm[/align]

[align=left]China is the world leader in police state, repression and dehumanization. It is the UN world model in that it is the Globalist benchmark for what they would like all countries to resemble.[/align]

[align=left]Chinese try mobile death vans[/align]
The Age

[align=left]China is equipping its courts with mobile execution vans as it shifts away from the communist system's traditional bullet in the head, towards a more "civilised" use of lethal injection.[/align]

[align=left]The policy of public executions in China is still in place, with victims being tortured into 'confessing' before they are brutally eliminated. These photographs (source) document a public execution.[/align]

[align=left][align=left][/align]

The issues of forced sterilization and forced abortion have also recently resurfaced in the Communist country. Despite withdrawing some funds for these policies, the Bush administration still bankrolls UNESCO projects which have had direct links to forced abortions and sterilizations.[/align]

[align=left]China admits women were forced to have abortions[/align]
London Independent

[align=left]Sources in Linyi City and its surrounding counties claimed that up to 120,000 women had been coerced into submitting to the procedures and that some of them were in the ninth month of their pregnancies.[/align]

[align=left]The agenda of depopulation is key to the mind set of the Globalists. Numerous different public figures have publicly expressed their desire to brutally reduce world population. Consider the following.[/align]

[align=left]"In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."[/align]
Prince Philip, in his Foreword to If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986.

[align=left]Read many more similar quotes from Prince Philip here.[/align]

[align=left]"A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."[/align]
Ted Turner, in an interview with Audubon magazine.

[align=left]National Security Memo 200, dated April 24, 1974, and titled "Implications of world wide population growth for U.S. security & overseas interests," says: [/align]

"Dr. Henry Kissinger proposed in his memorandum to the NSC that "depopulation should be the highest priority of U.S. foreign policy towards the Third World." He quoted reasons of national security, and because `(t)he U.S. economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less-developed countries ... Wherever a lessening of population can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resources, supplies and to the economic interests of U.S.

[align=left]Kissinger prepared a depopulation manifesto for President Jimmy Carter called 'Global 2000' which detailed using food as a weapon to depopulate the third world.[/align]

[align=left]One of the most chilling admissions of deadly intent came from the lips of the late Jacques Cousteau, the sainted environmental icon. In an interview with the UNESCO Courier for November 1991 the famed oceanographer said:[/align]

The damage people cause to the planet is a function of demographics â?? it is equal to the degree of development. One American burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangaladeshes. The damage is directly linked to consumption. Our society is turning toward more and needless consumption. It is a vicious circle that I compare to cancer....

This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but itâ??s just as bad not to say it.

[align=left]Burnet's solution: The plan to poison S-E Asia[/align]
The Age

[align=left]World-famous microbiologist Sir Macfarlane Burnet, the Nobel prize winner revered as Australia's greatest medical research scientist, secretly urged the government to develop biological weapons for use against Indonesia and other "overpopulated" countries of South-East Asia.[/align]

[align=left]Slowly but surely the people of China are revolting against the tyranny being imposed on them by the Communist government.[/align]

[align=left]Villagers in Shengyou revolted after the government tried to steal their land by force. Police and hired thugs brutally suppressed the protest by beating the villagers with canes and shovels. Several were also killed by gunshot wounds.[/align]

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/ma...05falungong.htm


[align=center]Related: Torture Methods[/align]


[align=center]Related: Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group[/align]


[align=center]Related: 64 Falun Gong Torture Deaths in China in 3 Months[/align]


[align=center]Related: Photos of torture - graphic[/align]


http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-9-23/32607.html
U.S. Court Hears Chinese Mediaâ??s Role in Torture

By Tracey Zhu
Epoch Times Staff
Sep 23, 2005
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_im...9-23-gavel.jpg
(photos.com)
[align=right]High-resolution image http://www.theepochtimes.com/images/highresimage.png (800 x 532 px, 90 dpi) [/align]



HARTFORD, Conn. â?? On a sunny Thursday morning in a packed federal courtroom, the audience heard how the state-owned media in China has furthered a campaign of torture against Falun Gong adherents in China.

Zhao Zhizhen, a CCP official and the former Director of Wuhan TV Station in China was served with a summons in July 2004 when he was visiting New Haven. The lawsuit was filed by Falun Gong practitioners under the Torture Victim Protection Act a statute passed by Congress in 1992 to give courts jurisdiction over perpetrators of torture abroad. It was also filed under the Alien Tort Statute; a 215-year-old law that allows foreigners to sue in the U.S. over human rights abuses committed anywhere. The Thursday hearing addressed the defendantâ??s motion to have the case dismissed on the grounds that itâ??s about speech and not about torture.

The defendant's attorney, Bruce Rosen, told U.S. District Judge Robert Chatigny that his client is not responsible for the persecution of Falun Gong in China, as it is unrelated to the Defendantâ??s television programs, website and other activities. He characterized the case as a â??libel caseâ?� and characterized the Defendantâ??s television programs as like 20/20 and 60 minutes.

But Terri Marsh, Plaintiffsâ?? attorney compared the defendantâ??s speech to that of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels. She said that Zhao is intricately linked to the perpetration of a campaign of torture and genocide waged against Falun Gong in China. She said that the Defendant is responsible for the material broadcast on the WRTB television station he managed as CEO and for the material displayed on the China Anti Cult Association (CACA) website as one of the founders of the website and a member of the board. The television station and website displays include direct calls for the eradication of Falun gong, as well direct orders to â??punish [Falun Gong] without mercy,â?� and to â??shoot them once confirmed.â?�

Attorney Marsh also explained that in China â??propagandaâ?� substitutes for a â??rule of law.â?� In the United States, one may not be deprived of oneâ??s liberty or life without due process (including a trial by a jury of oneâ??s peers). In China, the Communist Party first labels a person or group as â??an enemy of the stateâ?� and secondarily has them arrested and tortured. As the CACA website says, â??lets call them terrorists, then whatever measures we use will be justified.â?�

This is exactly how the persecution began: Jiang Zemin, the former head of the CCP called Falun Gong an enemy of the state to justify the persecution he initiated in July of 1999. According to Amnesty International, the persecution has caused thousands of deaths and severe torture to practitioners of Falun Gong in China.

Marsh said that Zhao knew that the material he produced, aired and displayed on through these media were likely to incite, inflame and further the unlawful arrest and torture of practitioners of Falun Gong practitioners in China.

Outside, plaintiff Chen Gang, 34, said a movie made by Zhao was shown over and over inside the labor camp where he was sent in 2000 for being a member of Falun Gong. He said that type of propaganda led to beatings and other torture.

â??Before the suppression started, the media comes out and says these guys are bad,â?� Chen said. â??That gives them the excuse. Some crimes are hidden. If you give someone the knife and say, 'That guy is bad,' it makes what happens worse.â?�

Outside the courtroom, one Falun Gong practitioner said â??Here in the U.S. we are filing the suit for those who are responsible for the killing and torture of practitioners because we want justice.â?� Judge Chatigny said he would rule soon on the motion by Zhaoâ??s attorney to dismiss the case.

I have heard no one here say China was anything except a brutal dictatorship, only that they are to large, and to powerful that there is anything that can be done about it. The real world sucks, and then you die.

the best way to take don china is to outsource to smaller third world countries or just smaller countries on the whole...theyd be willing to take whatever scraps they could get and even if they turned into a brutal dictatorship (as it almost always does) they can be taken out no problem.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...796098,00.html

Chinaâ??s hidden trade in children
The communist party is trying to cover up the scandal of the 'lost boys' stolen for profit, writes Michael Sheridan

THE faces of Chinaâ??s lost boys stare out from hundreds of pictures that once captured joy but now serve only to remind their parents of a cruel loss of innocence.

A plague of kidnapping has swept across Yunnan, a remote southwestern province, claiming hundreds of boys from the city of Kunming alone.

NI_MPU('middle');One vanished while his father bought sweets. Two more were led away in broad daylight from a busy market. The children have gone from poor townships and rural farms. They are the sons of Chinaâ??s working class but their fate has been covered up on the orders of the Communist party.

â??As of the end of 2004 there were more than 200 boys missing from Kunming city alone,â?� said Lu Youmin, a businessman, who has emerged as leader of a group of bereft parents fighting for action.

The motive is greed. Gangs of traffickers snatch the children to sell to childless couples in the prosperous cities of coastal China, where they will be passed off as â??adoptedâ?�.

Lu is an exception. The kidnappers took his daughter Lu Shanni, then aged eight, in 2002. But 95% of the stolen children are boys, prized because they will carry on the family line.

It is a well organised trade that the state is plainly unable to stop. Official propaganda highlights the occasional police success. Yet there is no helpline, no nationwide appeal, no television broadcast with pictures of the missing.

Instead, a Sunday Times inquiry has found that police have refused to investigate cases and have harassed families who dared to complain. The official preoccupation with silencing publicity about the kidnappings may stem from embarrassment.

A United Nations report shows that three years ago the authorities were warned about the surge in boy abductions. They have done little, if anything, to curb it.

Last week as Sha Zukang, the Chinese ambassador in Geneva, was defending the countryâ??s record on child protection before a UN committee, police in Kunming arrested parents who tried to contact this newspaper for help in searching for their missing sons.

Some were infants, some toddlers, some were taking their first rides on swings or in plastic cars before they were abducted. The Sunday Times has seen the names, photographs and other details in more than 60 cases. All remain unsolved.

Most of the victims were poor. They were the sons of impoverished migrant workers who exist at the bottom of the heap in China with neither the money nor the political connections needed to get help.

Most of the perpetrators, the people who buy the boys, are wealthy. They can pay up to £3,500 for a child. They are the shame-free rich class of post-revolutionary China.

The pain inflicted by their selfishness is written on the face of Pu Caiju, 32, whose son, Li Shang, was four when he vanished outside the familyâ??s village home on March 14, 2002. She and several other parents risked official wrath to be interviewed in central Kunming. â??My husband had been playing with our son and he said, â??Just stay here while I go upstairs for a cold drinkâ??. He was away not five minutes but when he came back our son was gone,â?� she said.

Sixty villagers joined the hunt, scouring the bus station, the alleys, the back yards. Then they went to the police.

â??The police just werenâ??t interested,â?� said Pu. â??They told us to come back if we hadnâ??t found him in 24 hours. We suspected that a neighbour, who was a drug user, may have been involved but the police didnâ??t want to know.â?�

NI_MPU('middle');Puâ??s husband went all over southern China to try to find their son. Then he had a breakthrough. In a rare, well- publicised success, the police had caught a gang of 11 child traffickers. â??My husband was allowed to confront one of the suspects with a photograph of our son and the man said, yes, he had sold him very easily because our son was so smart,â?� Pu said.

But the parentsâ?? hope that the traffickers could lead them to the missing children was abruptly cut short after their trial and conviction. Keen to impress the public and central government with their zeal, the authorities swiftly executed nine of the 11, including the man who had confessed to selling Puâ??s son.

â??The police had found out very little before they were executed,â?� Pu said. â??All the families were horrified.â?�

If Pu, like many Chinese people, conceals her emotions behind a mask, that effort must have been doubly difficult for the woman who sat next to her.

Luo Qin, 28, lost her two sons, Wang Tao, then aged eight, and Wang Wei, then five, on October 1, 2003.

â??I was at work, so was my husband, and the boys were playing with a neighbourâ??s child,â?� she said. â??When my husband came home, another neighbour said the three had been just outside 15 minutes earlier â?? but they had gone.â?�

The third child, Pan Kunkun, aged five, was also abducted. The families went to the police only to be met with the same response. â??They said, â??Donâ??t bother us. Come back in 24 hours if you canâ??t find themâ??,â?� said Luo.

She and Pu were asked whether they would think about having another child. They shook their heads in unison. â??We donâ??t want other children. We want our children back,â?� Luo said. For all the parents a lost child seems frozen in time. They speak of their sons as if they were still the same age as on the day they disappeared.

None wants to face the reality that the infant they nurtured may be growing up in a more comfortable home, far away, forgetting his real family.

Ai Feng Xin, a 40-year-old vegetable seller, shares Luoâ??s double burden of guilt. His two sons, Ai Yu and Ai Qin, aged four and two at the time, vanished from a Kunming market in the few minutes he needed to park his three-wheeled vehicle.

â??We suspected a man in the market but the police let him go. First they wouldnâ??t register the case properly. Then they wouldnâ??t give me a blood test for identification because I didnâ??t have the registration papers,â?� he said.

Ai is so angry that he shouts answers to questions and has no fear of the police. â??I suspect some of them are in league with the smugglers,â?� he charged. The one-child policy enforced by the state complicates the issue. It penalises the parents who have lost their boys and gives a huge incentive to couples prepared to do anything for a son.

It imposed a harsh irony on Reng Zhongquan, 38, a quietly spoken tailor, who already had a teenage daughter when his wife found she was pregnant with their son, Reng Pan.


â??We wanted to keep him, of course, so we paid the fine of 10,000 yuan (£696) and got him official papers,â?� recalled Reng.

NI_MPU('middle');Reng Pan vanished on September 9, 2003, aged five, while his father was buying sweets at a stall one minuteâ??s walk from their apartment.

â??We called the police emergency number but nobody came. Eventually they registered the case but they wouldnâ??t even question the neighbours,â?� Reng said. â??Now we families must stick together.â?�

The families did stick together. Even as victims of crime, it was a risk to take. So when Lu discovered that hundreds of families shared his grief, he was surprised to find out at the same time that their rage transcended their fear of offending the state.

They united to lobby the Kunming police for action. They pleaded with Chinese reporters to publicise their losses. In the end they did what Chinese dissatisfied with local officials have done since imperial times: they spent hard-earned savings to travel to Beijing in order to take their complaint to the seat of government.

The response was a standard mix of propaganda, blandishment and threat. The police announced arrests. The press dutifully recorded the crackdown. The problem was declared to be in hand. The families were told to stop disturbing everybody.

There was, it seems, not enough manpower to devote to a serious search for the boys. Yet when Kunming hosted a pompous â??summitâ?� for business executives last summer, the police found sufficient resources to go door to door to warn the parents against causing any public embarrassment.

Nobody could claim the Chinese authorities had not been alerted to the danger posed by the kidnap gangs years ago.

In 2002 the local police, security officials and social services all co-operated in a report by the UNâ??s International Labour Organisation into people trafficking in Yunnan. It estimated that 1,000 women and children were snatched every year from the province.

â??Since the 1980s, trafficking in women and children in China has grown at an alarming rate,â?� the report found. Most stolen infant boys were sold for adoption, it concluded: â??In many cases the victims have never been heard from again.â?�

The report warned that traffickers were increasingly resorting to kidnapping because it was becoming more difficult to find peasants ready to sell a child. It described a chain of criminals who bought and sold children. It spoke of girls forced into prostitution and small boys being trained as beggars. Officials estimated that 338 organised human trafficking gangs were at work in Yunnan, where 43m people live.

The UN recommended a government campaign to raise awareness, monitor vulnerable migrant districts and increase the punishment for those who buy children from the current maximum of three years in jail.

Last week the Kunming police were certainly on the alert. On Thursday morning Ai Feng Xin, Pu Caiju and the husband of Luo Qin were on their way to join a dozen parents willing to tell their stories. They and three others were arrested as they left their homes. The police ordered them not to speak to foreigners and forbade them to gather together. They were detained until the evening. On Friday, one of the parents called from a payphone that could not be monitored by the police. The message was simple. â??Thank you for coming to listen to us,â?� the parent said, â??We thought nobody cared.â?�

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092500310.html

China sets new rules on Internet news

Reuters
Sunday, September 25, 2005; 8:03 AM

BEIJING (Reuters) - China set new regulations on Internet news content on Sunday, widening a campaign of controls it has imposed on other Web sites, such as discussion groups.

"The state bans the spreading of any news with content that is against national security and public interest," the official Xinhua news agency said in announcing the new rules, which took effect immediately.


The news agency did not detail the rules, but said Internet news sites must "be directed toward serving the people and socialism and insist on correct guidance of public opinion for maintaining national and public interests."
Established news media needed permission to run a news Web site, it said. New operators had to register themselves with government information offices.

China has a dedicated band of cyber police who patrol the Internet with the aim of regulating content. Postings that criticize the government or address sensitive topics are quickly removed.

Registration was a feature of rules imposed earlier this year aimed at not-for-profit Internet activities, such as personal Web sites and blogs.

Since March, university on-line discussion groups have been restricted to students, removing a once popular outlet for Chinese keen to publicize their views on sensitive issues. Student users and site managers must register using their real names.

The biggest Chinese Web portals include those operated by Sina Corp. <SINA.O> (www.sina.com.cn) and Sohu.com Inc. <SOHU.O> (sohu.com). Both carry news.

Access to many foreign news Web sites is routinely blocked.

sick bastards.


sounds like north korea...jesus christ, what's happening over there.


are bound to see another military state only on a much larger scale?

Man to bad i could't spark up a doobie and acually float off into heaven away from this hell hole of a world we live in.. man im tired of hearing violence and bloodshed and terrorists and wmd and human rights volation... truth is about 95% of the people in this world have commited some kind of moral wrong from shop lifting to mass murder... i only pray if there is a god, the he is a kind and sparing one.. maybe he could ummm reprogram people to act better or something *sigh*

sorry for my babble, just my 2 cents.. been reading page after page of these articles.

i know...believe me...i was much more content when i was an ignorant bastard...

i would have been much happier not knowing all this crap, especially 9/11...but now i feel i have a duty to scream about it, for as long as i can, before i'm forcibly shut up...

China Wants Only 'Healthy' News on Web

AUDRA ANG / AP | September 26 2005

China said Sunday it is imposing new regulations to control content on its news Web sites and will allow the posting of only "healthy and civilized" news.

The move is part of China's ongoing efforts to police the country's 100-million Internet population. Only the United States, with 135 million users, has more.

The new rules take effect immediately and will "standardize the management of news and information" in the country, the official Xinhua News Agency said Sunday.

Sites should only post news on current events and politics, according to the new regulations issued by the Ministry of Information Industry and China's cabinet, the State Council. The subjects that would be acceptable under those categories was not clear.

Only "healthy and civilized news and information that is beneficial to the improvement of the quality of the nation, beneficial to its economic development and conducive to social progress" will be allowed, Xinhua said.

"The sites are prohibited from spreading news and information that goes against state security and public interest," it added.

While the communist government encourages Internet use for education and business, it also blocks material it deems subversive or pornographic. Online dissidents who post items critical of the government, or those expressing opinions in chatrooms, are regularly arrested and charged under vaguely worded state security laws.

Earlier this month, a French media watchdog group said e-mail account information provided by Internet powerhouse Yahoo Inc. helped lead to the conviction and 10-year prison sentence of a Chinese journalist who had written about media restrictions in an e-mail.

As part of the wider effort to curb potential dissent, the government has also closed thousands of cybercafes â?? the main entry to the Web for many Chinese unable to afford a computer at home.

Authorities in Shanghai have installed surveillance cameras and begun requiring visitors to Internet cafes to register with their official identity cards.

The government also recently threatened to shut down unregistered Web sites and blogs, the online diaries in which users post their thoughts for others to read.

Don't believe everything you hear about China, especially from our sensationalistic media. I have lived there and travel there frequently and know from first hand experience that it is not as bad as it is made out to be. I won't begin to make any claim that there is not rampant corruption in the government and that the people there have less freedom than we do. There is and they do. In actuality, however, China is a completely different place than what we have been lead to believe.

Our media has a way of twisting the truth around to make us believe what they want us to believe. What they want us to believe is what is sensational, what gets people upset, and what ultimately sells more advertising space. Face it, the truth is often boring, but if they can twist that truth around to make it exiting why the hell not?

Here's an example, fictitious but based on some recent "news":
-Truth: In a recent discussion, when told that the United States had planned numerous scenarios for a possible nuclear war with China, a Chinese general responded by saying "That is to be expected, it is not a surpise that the U.S. has plans for a nuclear war with China, China has plans for a nuclear war with the U.S., nobody expects it will never come to that but it is best to be prepared".
-Newspaper "Truth" -In a recent satetment a Chinese general was quoted as saying "China has plans for a nuclear war with the United States"

Both "truths" are correct but the first would make people think "Duh, this is news?" The second, however, well holy shit, "China's gonna nuke us.".

Again, let me stress that I don't think China is perfect, especially their Government. I have had my own dealings with corrupt government officials and lack of freedom while living there. I just want people to know that what we have been led to believe about China isn't true and there is a lot more to the story than what our media has been telling us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fengzi

Don't believe everything you hear about China, especially from our sensationalistic media. I have lived there and travel there frequently and know from first hand experience that it is not as bad as it is made out to be. I won't begin to make any claim that there is not rampant corruption in the government and that the people there have less freedom than we do. There is and they do. In actuality, however, China is a completely different place than what we have been lead to believe.

Our media has a way of twisting the truth around to make us believe what they want us to believe. What they want us to believe is what is sensational, what gets people upset, and what ultimately sells more advertising space. Face it, the truth is often boring, but if they can twist that truth around to make it exiting why the hell not?

Here's an example, fictitious but based on some recent "news":
-Truth: In a recent discussion, when told that the United States had planned numerous scenarios for a possible nuclear war with China, a Chinese general responded by saying "That is to be expected, it is not a surpise that the U.S. has plans for a nuclear war with China, China has plans for a nuclear war with the U.S., nobody expects it will never come to that but it is best to be prepared".
-Newspaper "Truth" -In a recent satetment a Chinese general was quoted as saying "China has plans for a nuclear war with the United States"

Both "truths" are correct but the first would make people think "Duh, this is news?" The second, however, well holy shit, "China's gonna nuke us.".

Again, let me stress that I don't think China is perfect, especially their Government. I have had my own dealings with corrupt government officials and lack of freedom while living there. I just want people to know that what we have been led to believe about China isn't true and there is a lot more to the story than what our media has been telling us.

---

i respcet your post and your opinions...but i humbly ask you to tell that to the floods of chinese students and immigrants who protest on the streets of boston and toronto, the shop owner i know who grudgingly looks at the picture of his wife executed for false reasons and to the chinese adults who get angry when you even mention china.

Well said Fengzi, i've lived in China for 4yrs now and have come to understand a lot deeper the west's mis-shapen view of this country. I agree totally that it's a country of huge social injustice and inequality but where isn't?

Come on Americans for starters, have a look in your own backyard... How many people are on death row in the states? Fair enuff not a large percentage compared to China but still miles ahead of the rest of the free world and this from the country that is supposedly paving the way? And how many of those on death row are of African American decent and still again how many have, and especially recently thru improved dna testing, been proven innocent? I'm not tryin to compare apples and oranges and i realise harvesting organs from criminals or anyone for that matter is abhorrent but i do think it is often sensationalised and especially when injustices are occurring in ones own country that can be fixed before pointing out mistakes or moral and social injustices in others.

I'm an Aussie and it's no better in my home country, the Australian Aborigines have been virtually wiped out and the government still refuse to deal with the situation yet are the first to point out human rights violations and atrocities in other countries....

peace
c

Ni Hao Chato, ni zai zhonguo zuo shenme?

Living in China is a real eye opener. Our media, happily helped by our own Pisshead, love to demonize China. But a huge portion of these stories are from remote areas and hand picked for the sole purpose of making China look bad. Think of how bad the U.S., or any Western country, would look if you just picked every fucked up example you could find to portary the country. That is what the Western media does to China.

China does have a problem in that it's infrastructure is still very undeveloped outside of the big cities. Most of the horror stories come from some backwater town run by "Boss Hog" types. These places tend to be quite remote and getting them, and the corruption in them, under control has been a big challenge for Beijing.

Do forced abotions occur? Probably, but it is not the official policy coming out of Beijing. Nobody I know has been forced to have an abortion and nobody I know, knows anybody who's been forced to have an abortion. I actually have a friend in Shanghai who has two children. They had to pay a rather large fine for having a 2nd child but they did break the law. They accepted that fact and paid up. And anyone who thinks a one child law is barabaric just need to go to the Walmart in Xiamen on Chinese New Years Eve. You'll instantly see why the government wants to, needs to, control the population.

As far as "mobile death vans" are concerned, it really doesn't bother me. The Chinese don't fuck around with violent crime. There is no waiting in jail for years, with hundreds of appeals, etc etc. When you are convicted that's it. But the Chinese have a saying that goes something like "you kill the rooster to startle the monkey". In other words they have these public executions to scare people into not committing violent crimes. My wife, a Chinese citizen, remembers actually listening to the sentencing, folllowed shortley thereafter by a loud "POP" then a soft "thud", of a man convicted of killing a small child in her home town. This was played over the loudspeaker in school when she was in the 5th or 6th grade. Anyone hearing something like that is going to think twice about doing something similar.

Does it work? Well, when I lived in China I lived in Shanghai, a city with 14+ million people. I (a rich, by local standards, white foriegner) could walk down any street at any time of the day without fearing for my safety. How many people could say that about any big American city? Just look around us, it is rare that I read the morning paper and don't find another murder story.

Like you chato, I won't pretend that China isn't a country with many problems, but like you said "where isn't?" . The world would be a lot better place if we weren't all so intent on pointing out the flaws in other countries while sweeping ours under the bed. Just think what the world would be like if we dealt with our problems at home, and looked for the positive in other countries, instead.

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

As far as "mobile death vans" are concerned, it really doesn't bother me. The Chinese don't fuck around with violent crime. There is no waiting in jail for years, with hundreds of appeals, etc etc. When you are convicted that's it. But the Chinese have a saying that goes something like "you kill the rooster to startle the monkey". In other words they have these public executions to scare people into not committing violent crimes. My wife, a Chinese citizen, remembers actually listening to the sentencing, folllowed shortley thereafter by a loud "POP" then a soft "thud", of a man convicted of killing a small child in her home town. This was played over the loudspeaker in school when she was in the 5th or 6th grade. Anyone hearing something like that is going to think twice about doing something similar.

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And it's not only crime you can prevent. Threat of death will prevent any "something similar" which the government wishes prevented. Well and good, right up until they wish to prevent something important to you.

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Originally Posted by andruejaysin

. Threat of death will prevent any "something similar" which the government wishes prevented. .

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Such as? Enlighten us with your vast wisdom. Please.

Try speaking out against the chinese government, and see what happens. Pick any topic you wish. Or perhaps you agree with everything they do?

Ahh, I see you've been a good little boy, diligently gobbling down everything our media feeds you. :thumbsup: Since your sources are so reliable I see there's no sense arguing. Enjoy your enlightenment.

Your blind trust of the chinese government which has killed 20 million of it's own people manages a difficult trick. It makes bong's blind trust of the US government seem almost reasonable.

I have no blind trust of the Chinese government. But I don't have a blind trust in the U.S. media either. I do, however, have considerably more knowledge of China than 99% of American's. This comes from my major in college, having lived in China, and having Chinese in-laws. If you pull off your anti-Chinese blinders and read chato's and my posts more carefully you'll see that we are not so much praising the Chinese government as we are bashing the Western media. Yes, the Chinese government does some fucked up things, so does our own government. But what we see in the papers is just a small slice of China which is twisted and manipulated to make them appear as bad as possible. Because that is what sells more newspapers and that is what sells more advertising.

My wife's grandfather died in a Chinese "re-education camp" so I know what the Chinese government has done. But that was nearly 40 years ago and the current government is quite different. While it is true that the government tolerates little criticism, it is no longer sentencing people to death simply because they speak out. Even the leaders of the Tiananmen Square uprising were only imprisoned, and most, if not all, have been released by now.

I'm not asking anyone to believe the Chinese government is not fucked up. I'm just asking that people open their eyes a bit and not beleive everything the media says about it. And that goes for pretty much anything the Western Media says. it's all just bullshit designed to make more money.

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

While it is true that the government tolerates little criticism, it is no longer sentencing people to death simply because they speak out. Even the leaders of the Tiananmen Square uprising were only imprisoned, and most, if not all, have been released by now.

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Only 15 years for a peaceful protest? That settles it, I'm moving to china.

Your ignorant and closed minded andrue. It's senseless to continue this since you continually miss the point.

I do give china two thumbs way up for their policies on exporting psychedelic drugs. Any country where you can openly sell DOM, 2c-b, and DMT can't be all bad.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

and don't do anything crazy like demand property rights and go up against the friendly military who will mow you down without a second thought...

that's the kind of freedom i want.

I'm a consultant Fengzi in Northern China.

peace
c

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Originally Posted by pisshead

and don't do anything crazy like demand property rights and go up against the friendly military who will mow you down without a second thought...

that's the kind of freedom i want.

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congratulations pissy, I think this is the first time I've ever seen a post from you that wasn't just cut and pasted from prisonplanet :thumbsup:

Anyhow, is there anywhere that you like the government? You don't like it in the U.S., you don't like it in China. You do not like it with a fox, you do not like it in a box. You do not like it with as goat, you do not like it in a boat. You don't like the government here, you do not like the government there. You don't like the government anywhere.