Another thread about China....

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4...00e2511c8.html

Top Chinese general warns US over attack
By Alexandra Harney in Beijing and Demetri Sevastopulo and Edward Alden in Washington
Published: July 14 2005 21:59 | Last updated: July 15 2005 00:03

China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan, a Chinese general said on Thursday.


â??If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,â?� said General Zhu Chenghu.

Gen Zhu was speaking at a function for foreign journalists organised, in part, by the Chinese government. He added that China's definition of its territory included warships and aircraft.

â??If the Americans are determined to interfere [then] we will be determined to respond,â?� said Gen Zhu, who is also a professor at China's National Defence University.

â??We . . . will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.â?�

Gen Zhu is a self-acknowledged â??hawkâ?� who has warned that China could strike the US with long-range missiles. But his threat to use nuclear weapons in a conflict over Taiwan is the most specific by a senior Chinese official in nearly a decade.

However, some US-based China experts cautioned that Gen Zhu probably did not represent the mainstream People's Liberation Army view.

â??He is running way beyond his brief on what China might do in relation to the US if push comes to shove,â?� said one expert with knowledge of Gen Zhu. â??Nobody who is cleared for information on Chinese war scenarios is going to talk like this,â?� he added.

Gen Zhu's comments come as the Pentagon prepares to brief Congress next Monday on its annual report on the Chinese military, which is expected to take a harder line than previous years. They are also likely to fuel the mounting anti-China sentiment on Capitol Hill.

In recent months, a string of US officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, defence secretary, have raised concerns about China's military rise. The Pentagon on Thursday declined to comment on â??hypothetical scenariosâ?�.

Rick Fisher, a former senior US congressional official and an authority on the Chinese military, said the specific nature of the threat â??is a new addition to China's public discourseâ?�. China's official doctrine has called for no first use of nuclear weapons since its first atomic test in 1964. But Gen Zhu is not the first Chinese official to refer to the possibility of using such weapons first in a conflict over Taiwan.

Chas Freeman, a former US assistant secretary of defence, said in 1996 that a PLA official had told him China could respond in kind to a nuclear strike by the US in the event of a conflict with Taiwan. The official is believed to have been Xiong Guangkai, now the PLA's deputy chief of general staff.

Gen Zhu said his views did not represent official Chinese policy and he did not anticipate war with the US.

Additional reporting by Richard McGregor in Beijing
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What do you think? Seriously, I think asking this guy about attacking the US is like asking Torog if he would drop nukes on Saudi Arabia... I see this as the US's next big propaganda campaign: to convince the public that China is the new evil empire that threatens freedom and democracy and seeks a worldwide communist empire. This is only the beginning of the brainwashing the media will attempt for the next few years. Pretty soon, Holywood will follow suit and make the Chinese the evil villains in all their new movies.

shit. yeh i see that coming from a mile away. the whole point of china taking over taiwan is to reassure its the supreme power in asia and of course that taiwan strait has many beneficial shipping options.

it always amazes me when you talk to someone and they casually say "china's gonna be the next major super power you know...". theyve been quietly building their military and economy and now they plan to jointly train with russian troops.

so now because of american complacency (well all the "good" guys i guess) we've got a huge issue to deal with. either let taiwan be taken and ignore the "freedom for all" rhetoric and let china achieve its goal of supremacy or we can take them on and start a nuclear war/world war 3. thanks bush.

oh, and if you think the japanese arent shitting their pants right now you've got to be kidding. i guess that's whats going on when i read that the taiwanese president called for the people to resist china like how china resisted the japanese...and we all know how well that worked out.

the end times are near...roll a fatty and proceed to fuck indiscriminately.



let's roll.

well if the end comes i will be sad i never got to beat a man to death while wearing a suit.

i'd just like to make someone piss their pants as i held a gun to their head. i'd prefer child molesters and rapists, but six-year old kids are okay too. j/k.



or am i...



let's roll.

j/k

do you like george carlin?

yeh he's really cool. i like his cynicism.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4...00e2511c8.html

............................

What do you think? Seriously, I think asking this guy about attacking the US is like asking Torog if he would drop nukes on Saudi Arabia... I see this as the US's next big propaganda campaign: to convince the public that China is the new evil empire that threatens freedom and democracy and seeks a worldwide communist empire. This is only the beginning of the brainwashing the media will attempt for the next few years. Pretty soon, Holywood will follow suit and make the Chinese the evil villains in all their new movies.

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Wow FLESH, its good to see somebody who actually understands. Although I disagree with you on one point. This isn't going to happen over the next few years, its been going on for a while and most people are already convinced that China is the new evil empire.

This is so typical of the American media. They make this big story that sounds like China is going to nuke us tomorrow. Only after getting everyone worked up do they throw in one final sentence "Gen Zhu said his views did not represent official Chinese policy and he did not anticipate war with the US." In other words, everything written prior to that was irrelevant crap. Most wouldn't even pick up on that though.

I spent four years studying China's culture, language, history, and politics. I lived in China for two years. My wife is Chinese and all of my in-laws still live in China. I'm not trying to brag but I do know considerably more about China than most Americans. What I can tell you is that China is one of the most, if not THE most, misunderstood countries there is. At least misunderstood by Americans.

The American media has been brainwashing us for years and certainly not just about China. I will be the first to admit that I am not immune to their b.s. While I may have a better understanding about the true China I am frightened by what the U.S. media has done to my perceptions about the rest of the world. I congratulate you FLESH on resiting, if only more people would we'd be a lot better off.

I wonder if they'll be nice enough to relieve Gen Zhu of duty the same way Truman relieved McCarther for his anti-chineese remarks? :rolleyes: NOT

gen. macarthur was sacked because he had better ideas about the war in vietnam. he didnt agree to bomb areas with village inhabitants.

you let them trick you that the best general in the u.s. since patton was ousted because he had "ideaolgical" differences.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

I wonder if they'll be nice enough to relieve Gen Zhu of duty the same way Truman relieved McCarther for his anti-chineese remarks? :rolleyes: NOT

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Don't kid yourself. Governments don't relieve for improper comments anymore. Not them or us. Don't agree? Well it certainly doesn't look like Karl Rove will be filing for unemployment anytime soon.

Hopefully I'm wrong though. :o

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Originally Posted by nicholasstanko

gen. macarthur was sacked because he had better ideas about the war in vietnam. he didnt agree to bomb areas with village inhabitants.

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Wrong war....Korea.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

Wrong war....Korea.

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FUCK! thats twice now.


okay. im going to sit and breathe for a few. then ill be back.



the idea's still the same though!



"MORAN!"


let's roll.

Come on Nick...you can do it....just sit back...relax...smoke a fatty....it'll all come back to ya! :D And take a big fuckin hit for me too!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

Come on Nick...you can do it....just sit back...relax...smoke a fatty....it'll all come back to ya! :D And take a big fuckin hit for me too!!!! :D

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with pleasure.

i love smoking weed.

let's roll

so pass it this way! Pfft

So I have a question, why is Chinese communism=good/tolerable
Cuban communism=bad/sanctions

Anyone?

china's threatening to nuke us again? quick! let's invade syria!

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

so pass it this way! Pfft

So I have a question, why is Chinese communism=good/tolerable
Cuban communism=bad/sanctions

Anyone?

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

^And ego. Basically the economic incentive to lifting the sanctions against Cuba doesn't outweight the blow to our ego that would result from "giving in" .

i think china is good and loving and cares about freedom, that's why we support them. i think communism is just fantastic, and i hope we one day get all of china's freedoms...we're well on our way.

how dare you speak bad about china. support them, love them.

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Originally Posted by BlueCat

so pass it this way! Pfft

So I have a question, why is Chinese communism=good/tolerable
Cuban communism=bad/sanctions

Anyone?

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china can actually put up a good fight.

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Originally Posted by pisshead

i think china is good and loving and cares about freedom, that's why we support them. i think communism is just fantastic, and i hope we one day get all of china's freedoms...we're well on our way.

how dare you speak bad about china. support them, love them.

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Come on Pisshead, I expected more from you. Now you just sound like Amsterdam.

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

Come on Pisshead, I expected more from you. Now you just sound like Amsterdam.

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dont worry. he's being sarcastic.

yeah, that was all sarcasm.

yeah, that was all sarcasm. it's just so incredible how the fake left and fake right are exactly the same, supporting the same thing. it's so easy to see the propaganda.

i hear ya. did you hear alex's show today? i thought it was one of his skits but shit...it got pretty wild for a few minutes. i didnt know people got so passionate anymore.

thats so creepy...i actually forgot what a true patriot is.

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Originally Posted by nicholasstanko

dont worry. he's being sarcastic.

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Trust me, I know. Pisshead and I have had a disagreement about China before. He can't find any quotes on his conspiracy theory websites to debate with me, however, so he responds this way.

the country's basically being flushed down the shitter, there's so much bread and circus and decadence and evil surrounding this whole thing...the monstrosity of it all leaves me speechless...the outrights lies as a world dictatorship is being set up controlled by such few people in the world, under a pretext of lies and a made up enemy.

the medical route seems to be a good way to go to mandate dictatorship, such as outlined in the model state emergency health powers act and some recent executive orders. i think that's the way things will ultimately go.

if history repeats, then why can't we see the direction we're obviously going? it makes me a little upset too. but how dare i question things...

i was referring to the absurdity of my government, when they tell us iraq was such a threat, that a giant tolerated dictatorship i guess we could call it can threaten to nuke us, but there's absolutely zero talk of liberating them, and the average person isn't even aware of how open so many countries are about saying they want to nuke us, and we never say anything bad about them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pisshead

i was referring to the absurdity of my government, when they tell us iraq was such a threat, that a giant tolerated dictatorship i guess we could call it can threaten to nuke us, but there's absolutely zero talk of liberating them, and the average person isn't even aware of how open so many countries are about saying they want to nuke us, and we never say anything bad about them.

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I'll agree with you on part of this one although I don't think anyone has ever said they "want" to nuke us. Well, maybe someone in Al Quaeda or other terrorist group but that's a different thread. Anyhow, our government is like the playground bully, we only pick on those that have no chance against us. If there's any percieved chance that we could get a bloody nose we head the other way.

Liberate China...can't! They are a nuclear superpower. Any country right now with nuclear capability falls under that catagory. At one time is was just the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., now there are alot more players. I found a site with some information I was looking for describing world thinking regarding nukes...or at least the U.S. and U.S.S.R's.:

The two superpowers justified this build-up of warheads by saying that the threat to the other side of massive retaliation was enough to ensure that they would never be used. This theory is known as â??deterrenceâ?? and it says that, because of the terrible consequences to both sides of a nuclear war, neither side would risk starting one. The situation became known as â??mutually assured destructionâ?? (with the rather appropriate acronym of MAD).
http://www.comeclean.org.uk/articles.php?articleID=14

Now it seems like any two bit dictator is getting his paws on this shit...which brings us into the age of high energy beams.:

In electron beam weapons a series of step up electric transformers may be used to condition the electric current produced by the alternating current electric generator to have a potential difference (voltage ), of from 100,000,000 volts to 1,000,000,000 volts .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon

What a wonderful world we live in! :D

i have no personal preference over one corrupted government or the other. *hugs canada* :)

wait canada sucks too. man, fuck earth...come on cannabis.com, lets start our own colony on the moon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fengzi

Wow FLESH, its good to see somebody who actually understands. Although I disagree with you on one point. This isn't going to happen over the next few years, its been going on for a while and most people are already convinced that China is the new evil empire.

This is so typical of the American media. They make this big story that sounds like China is going to nuke us tomorrow. Only after getting everyone worked up do they throw in one final sentence "Gen Zhu said his views did not represent official Chinese policy and he did not anticipate war with the US." In other words, everything written prior to that was irrelevant crap. Most wouldn't even pick up on that though.

I spent four years studying China's culture, language, history, and politics. I lived in China for two years. My wife is Chinese and all of my in-laws still live in China. I'm not trying to brag but I do know considerably more about China than most Americans. What I can tell you is that China is one of the most, if not THE most, misunderstood countries there is. At least misunderstood by Americans.

The American media has been brainwashing us for years and certainly not just about China. I will be the first to admit that I am not immune to their b.s. While I may have a better understanding about the true China I am frightened by what the U.S. media has done to my perceptions about the rest of the world. I congratulate you FLESH on resiting, if only more people would we'd be a lot better off.

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I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a bit of a chinese culture nut, and my girlfriend is chinese too :D Actually, in september I'm taking an intensive mandarin class, which should be interesting....

But yeah, China is misunderstood big time. My girlfriend actually likes to point out the irony in the fact that the Chinese, as a people, are one of the most capitalist cultures in the world, and yet the government is 'communist'. I'm pretty sure also that except for the official party line, no one in China would support any sort of war against the US. I say instead of fearing them and antagonizing them, we should welcome them with open arms into the world community. The hard-line communists are on their last legs, every year their economy becomes more and more western. Why make them our enemies? It makes no sense (I know, I know, there's always the question of $$$$$$$$$$$)

With out a dought China will become the next world Superpower!
This has the U.S. goverment fearing China big time.
The U.S. goverment has no control over China what so ever!
They have no ideal how large their army really is!
They really don't no now many Chinese there really are.
1.8 billion 2 or 3 billion or more?
The Chinese have told the U.S. goverment that in 2012 they are sending a
maned space flight to the moon with intent of setting up a lunar base.
They have at least 53+ Atomic subs roaming the oceans right now
with 1 to 3 new subs being built every year.
There is no way the U.S. can keep up with china.
They have also warned Pakistan, India, and any other country that
borders China that if one shell, one bullet hits their country this will
be taken as act of war against China and that country will be invaded
by the Chinese army.
Just think of it! 500 million+ screaming chinese invading india or pakistan or the middle east.
That's the end of that country. What ever country it may be.
The old communism is dieing off in china today.
But the U.S. goverment is still screaming, watch out for the red chinese.
The evil red chinese and there evil communism will destory are way of life!
What Bullshit. It sounds like the U.S. goverment is stuck in the 1950's
with there evil communism crapp.
This is not the 1950's were living in. It's the 21's century people and if the U.S. goverment still think's china is run by hard core communism why are they letting Wall-Mart, I.B.M, MicroSoft in to china?
The only reason the U.S. goverment is spredding this type of fear and lies about China
to the people of the U.S.A is this.
The U.S. goverment has no power, no control of the chinese goverment, and they never will have any real power over China.
China will never allow this to happen to them!
This is why the U.S. goverment fear's China so much!

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Originally Posted by root

With out a dought China will become the next world Superpower!

The only reason the U.S. goverment is spredding this type of fear and lies about China
to the people of the U.S.A is this.
The U.S. goverment has no power, no control of the chinese goverment, and they never will have any real power over China.
China will never allow this to happen to them!
This is why the U.S. goverment fear's China so much!

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WILL become...their already there dude!

Yipper, thats the only reason the U.S. watches China. :eek: Keeping a currency artificially deflated so you have a superior trade advantage has NOTHING to do with it. Having a leading General state how he would nuke the States definately didn't make a rats ass difference. We're all just mad cause we can't pick on them. :rolleyes:

that's not why i'm mad...i'm mad because we let our manufacturing base be shipped away to slave labor so we can buy the stuff a little cheaper, which is more important than quite a few states each losing hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs.

i'm mad because CAFTA is going to further sell out our sovereignty and create a massive lower class...slowly chipping away at the perceived middle class. i say perceived because the true upper class is worth hundreds of trillions of dollars, held by very few people.

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Originally Posted by pisshead

that's not why i'm mad...i'm mad because we let our manufacturing base be shipped away to slave labor so we can buy the stuff a little cheaper, which is more important than quite a few states each losing hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs.

i'm mad because CAFTA is going to further sell out our sovereignty and create a massive lower class...slowly chipping away at the perceived middle class. i say perceived because the true upper class is worth hundreds of trillions of dollars, held by very few people.

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i wish people could see it. they delude themselves with images of the luxurious life and they pay for it with having theirs and children's ripped away. right by right. freedom by freedom.

i just dont understand why there's this sense of "china...the good guys" being portrayed by the media. and now watch...within a matter of weeks or even months/years theres going to be a COMPLETE revolution. china...land of the evil empire. and noone'll realise that the elite are tired of selling out to china and want blood. it'll just be another propaganda scheme to make us forget about radical islamist terrorists and focus on radical chinese/north korean terrorists.

and suddenly, out of nowhere, north korean terror cells are going to pop up (even though the citizens are highly repressed) and then we're going to have another war.

looks like china's gearing up to take taiwan pretty soon. enjoy nuclear-free sunshine while it lasts and dont forget to stockpile on munitions. fuck the army, im going to join/form a militia. i dont need their stinkin purple hearts to defend my country from their manipulative bullshit.



all hail hypocrisy in the name of the almighty dollar.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

WILL become...their already there dude!

Yipper, thats the only reason the U.S. watches China. :eek: Keeping a currency artificially deflated so you have a superior trade advantage has NOTHING to do with it. Having a leading General state how he would nuke the States definately didn't make a rats ass difference. We're all just mad cause we can't pick on them. :rolleyes:

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Yeah, how do you think GW is fixing the US economy right now? Didn't you realize that for the past few years the value of the US dollar is steadily decreasing versus every other nation's currency? That's the fastest and easiest way to fix an economy, but it's a quick fix nonetheless and ultimately it doesn't solve the problems which contributed to economic decline. Both China and tthe US are guilty of it, only the US more subtly so.