What If We Lose The War ?

What if we lose the war?
email ^ | Unknown | Unknown


Posted on 07/14/2005 7:56:09 PM PDT


To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).


The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.


First, let's examine a few basics:


1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11th, 2001 . The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; Dar es Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; New York World Trade Center 2001; Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).


2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.


3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.


4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%


5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by theNazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm ).


Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the 6 million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way - their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing - by their own pronouncements - killing all of us "infidels". I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?


6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.


So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1. Can we lose this war? 2. What does losing really mean?


If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.


We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?


It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam . This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is:


We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.


We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.


They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq . Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do, will be done. Spain is finished.


The next will probably be France . Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France . France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!


If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.


Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.


So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by " imploding". That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!


Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.


- President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights, we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.


And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.


- Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening, it concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.


- Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq . And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners - not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned - totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into all non-Muslims - not just in the United States , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.


We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant'. That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the Press, equal rights for anyone - let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.


This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.


If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population, of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?


Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?


I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

You really do almost have to stand in awe of this alarmist position. I mean, wow.

Here's a discussion about this exact entire piece, on a snopes message board:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/u...01737/p/1.html

republican pro-war bullshit propaganda.


lets get it straight torog. stop living in your magic fantasy land thinking muslims attacked america because they despise the freedom. that's ridiculous. that's just something americans say because they can't get it through their heads that they arent the superior country. no country supercedes another.

if you for one minute would stop and think you'd realise that many more jihadists fight to protect their way of life and their homes. only a small percentage are actually doing what they do to destroy all who oppose islam...which most happens to be active over-spoken zealot christians.


and you sound just like the radical extremists. france is 20% muslim!?!? oh my goodness theiyre slipping into hell! we must help france reclaim its christianity! give me a break. you're just the middle man for the politicians who want to make more money. they feed you bullshit and you regurgitate it to others thinking you're being a good patriot but you're just being taken advantage of.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

Here's a discussion about this exact entire piece, on a snopes message board:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/u...01737/p/1.html

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Howdy Breukelen,

I went there and read the posts in reply to the article,and it's painfully obvious,that those opposed to the war on terror,are simply incapable of understanding that muslim jihadists are the enemy and that all they offer in return for support,is brutal oppression and death..anyone who feels that the terrorists are justified in what they are doing,are in fact,candidates for dhimmitude..slavery..and beheading,if they don't convert to Islam.

Y'all may as well claim,that the japs and nazi's,were 'freedom fighters',in WW2..clearly,a form of insanity,has the liberals in their grip..and anyone who opposes the war on terror.

As for Spain,I find the letter to be accurate in it's assement,and I'm certain,that they will come under further attack,to reverse their policy on gays,and bring them into line with Islamic fundy tenets,which strictly forbids homosexuality and their sentence for homosexuals,is death.

France and Britain,are already feeling the negative impact of allowing muslims to infiltrate their countries,they still don't seem to realize,that the muslims are waging a process called Darfur,the conversion,by any means,of the world into an Islamic State.

The BBC,says that calling muslim jihadists terrorists,is an "impediment" to understanding..to that end,they describe the cold-blooded murderers,"bombers",instead of what they truly are..that's pretty daggum sad and indicative of a serious problem in prosecuting the war on terror.

Over at Marihemp,a poster says that this is "our war",he's a euro,and this is another reason,why London and Madrid,were attacked..this war on terror,is the entire Free World's war..I hope that no more countries,like Spain,don't surrender to the terrorists..but it's definitely possible,as long as those who oppose the war on terror,don't see the muslim jihadists for the true enemies of Freedom,that they truly are.

Have a good one ....

Just a quick note we in Spain did not surrender we have been at this for a long time dealing with other forms of terrorism and we just had another attack up north...we know what is at stake

i agree.but after the govt. put its tail between its legs after the bombing,the rest of the world kinda viewed spains govt. as soft.

i mean al queda shaped your entire countries election.talk about cowardly.

if the presidential elections were held in the us two days after an attack is it not possible the outcome would have been different?

the current govt of Spain is well different i believe that most in spain would not vote that way again

how would the majority vote now you think, HIS?

wouldnt have changed a thing here,come to think about it Bush would have won by an even bigger margin.

i wasnt talking about the spanish people so please dont take offense.spain is a great land.ibiza was the greatest place ever.sooooooooooooo much fun.peace.

I hope out of 300 million plus people living in the box their would be one candidate to step up and lead....

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Originally Posted by amsterdam

wouldnt have changed a thing here,come to think about it Bush would have won by an even bigger margin.

i wasnt talking about the spanish people so please dont take offense.spain is a great land.ibiza was the greatest place ever.sooooooooooooo much fun.peace.

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no offense taken

they did.

its 420 here peace to all

happy 420 spain!!

you smokin bud or hash?

any people on the planet who feel screwed by the white house need a break once in awhile, dont you think? this is not another state we have our own flag

bud from amsterdam

just returned from my cousins boat house in amsterdam about three weeks ago.little quick trip to unwind.snuck back about 8 grams of polm.

Very nice................ life here is good its nice to be out of the box

how'd you sneak it.

the only thing that bites is that it is hard to find cronic here plenty of hash though

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Originally Posted by nicholasstanko

how'd you sneak it.

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i smushed it all together into a ball(i prefer hash to nugs).i wrapped it in plastic wrap,layered some smell good lotion and repeated that like 5 or 6 times.then i just rolled them up in my socks and put it in the luggage i was checking.not much to it.i dressed nice and carried my briefcase.never got a second look.my wife w3as scared.i had done it like 10 times before so i didnt care at all.

We should trade

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nicholasstanko

republican pro-war bullshit propaganda.


lets get it straight torog. stop living in your magic fantasy land thinking muslims attacked america because they despise the freedom. that's ridiculous. that's just something americans say because they can't get it through their heads that they arent the superior country. no country supercedes another.

if you for one minute would stop and think you'd realise that many more jihadists fight to protect their way of life and their homes. only a small percentage are actually doing what they do to destroy all who oppose islam...which most happens to be active over-spoken zealot christians.


and you sound just like the radical extremists. france is 20% muslim!?!? oh my goodness theiyre slipping into hell! we must help france reclaim its christianity! give me a break. you're just the middle man for the politicians who want to make more money. they feed you bullshit and you regurgitate it to others thinking you're being a good patriot but you're just being taken advantage of.

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Howdy nicholas,

I realize that the terrorists didn't just attack because of our Freedoms,which,btw..does make us the superior country,but that they attacked us,because of their religious beliefs and edicts..I lived in Saudi,and I have a much greater insight to fundy Islam,than you do and probably ever will.

Fundy,Islamic theocracies,are incompatable with the Free World and the ideals of freedom and democracy and equality..why are you fighting so hard to preserve that ? What the muslim jihadists offer,in return for your support,is either dhimmitude or death..it's not about preserving their brutal way of life..it's about imposing Darfur upon the World..an edict,that all muslims,both violent and "peaceful",are required to prosecute..or they will be called infidels by their muslim cohorts and put to death.

I find that you are the one,living in a fog of moral confusion,so dense,that you cannot recognize the true enemies of Freedom..now is the time-for all good men and women,to step forward and fight for the preservation of the Free World..will you sit on the side-lines and do nothing..while Evil consumes your home and community and country ?

Have a good one ....

lol. i remember going from bahamas to miami. we were out smoking the whole night before and got back like an hour before we had to be at the airport.

i always heard stories about dogs hidden behind walls and im like "fuck that to the max" because i thought the idea of some guy hiding behind a wall with a dog was stupid. apparently not to the dea.

so im walking to the x-ray or whatever and all i hear is this HUGE amount of barking from behind this plain grey wall and i was scared shitless. i mustve been paranoid from high but i was able to tell myself "so what? you dont have anything anymore. you smoked it". after that i felt so cool because all the security women were looking at me like "so you had fun i assume". lol.

i was actually debating whether i should risk smuggling the weed or not. i realised i wouldve made it through no problem but im still scared.

i never understood why hash hasent caught on here in the states.after moving to Holland to live with my dads family i smoked the nug for MAYBE a week.then i discovered hash and i never looked back.if i could get hash here i would never smoke nug.

during the cannabis cup every year(wich is a total rip off) all the americans would fly in and never smoke the hash.

It was big in the late 70's early 80's. Real hard on the lungs though!

To me it is just comfortable to smoke bud its different high I like alot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by highinspain

Just a quick note we in Spain did not surrender we have been at this for a long time dealing with other forms of terrorism and we just had another attack up north...we know what is at stake

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Howdy HIS,

I find that Spain did capitulate to the terrorists,and that you've been having problems with terrorism for a long time,indictaive of your inability to discern Evil from Good. Now the terrorists know that it's possible to make european countries surrender to their terror attacks,they will try even harder,to isolate America and turn the rest of the Free World,against us.

I wonder,who will be the next to surrender to the muslim world ?

Have a good one ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by highinspain

To me it is just comfortable to smoke bud its different high I like alot

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understood,i think i like it so much because i grew up on nugs and once i moved to europe hash was soooooo different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy nicholas,

I realize that the terrorists didn't just attack because of our Freedoms,which,btw..does make us the superior country,but that they attacked us,because of their religious beliefs and edicts..I lived in Saudi,and I have a much greater insight to fundy Islam,than you do and probably ever will.

Fundy,Islamic theocracies,are incompatable with the Free World and the ideals of freedom and democracy and equality..why are you fighting so hard to preserve that ? What the muslim jihadists offer,in return for your support,is either dhimmitude or death..it's not about preserving their brutal way of life..it's about imposing Darfur upon the World..an edict,that all muslims,both violent and "peaceful",are required to prosecute..or they will be called infidels by their muslim cohorts and put to death.

I find that you are the one,living in a fog of moral confusion,so dense,that you cannot recognize the true enemies of Freedom..now is the time-for all good men and women,to step forward and fight for the preservation of the Free World..will you sit on the side-lines and do nothing..while Evil consumes your home and community and country ?

Have a good one ....

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but at what cost? i'm willing to pay it, but let's be sensible. if we were better prepared to help ourselves then you'd probably have alot of support from me.

how about closing off the borders so we at least reduce the 1,000,000+ illegal immigrants having a grand ole time at taxpayer expense?

this whole war on terrorism idea is about as intelligent as trying to use your hand to stop water leaking out of a bigger hole.

if these crazy fundys you hate so much are a problem, then how about reinforcing the home front to make it as impenatrable as possible? then we can go out reinforced with everything we've got.

other than that, fixing problems that dont need fixing and ignoring the bigger problems sounds like a really great resource for money-grubbing propaganda.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nicholasstanko

but at what cost? i'm willing to pay it, but let's be sensible. if we were better prepared to help ourselves then you'd probably have alot of support from me.

how about closing off the borders so we at least reduce the 1,000,000+ illegal immigrants having a grand ole time at taxpayer expense?

this whole war on terrorism idea is about as intelligent as trying to use your hand to stop water leaking out of a bigger hole.

if these crazy fundys you hate so much are a problem, then how about reinforcing the home front to make it as impenatrable as possible? then we can go out reinforced with everything we've got.

other than that, fixing problems that dont need fixing and ignoring the bigger problems sounds like a really great resource for money-grubbing propaganda.

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Howdy nicholas,

This may surprise you,but I agree with you,about our borders..I want the Minute Men project,to embarrass Bush into doing the right thing about our borders..as a resident of a border State with Mexico,I understand the problem pretty well and have been opposed to our border policies,for a long time.

You presume,that I operate from a basis of hate,but that's wrong..I operate on the premise,that all folks deserve Freedom and equality..and I'm sick of allowing brutal oppression to go on,just because it's a part of someone's 'culture'. You may be able to abide with brutal oppression..but I will not.

Have a good one...

torog, i see a catch-22.


you would tell us that not all muslims are evil and violent but we musnt let a certain few assault freedom.

but if that's the case then why do you oppose muslim ideals taking root in countries other than the middle east? wouldnt the majority oppose evil fundamentalism? why do you assume that even if peaceful law-abiding muslims are in charge the society would deteriorate and crumble?

no, see you're letting your religious ideals confuse you i think. any other country that lets religion control its government in many aspects is a threat to your religion, thus it must be exterminated. you just hide it behind patriotism. it's obvious from your propaganda inspired posters.


the muslim religion isnt a bad one. no religion is bad. i'm sorry torog, but you cant get people like me to keep hating muslims anymore because christianity "aint that saint" as i heard a texan say the other day. and referencing a few of the negative aspects of the koran isnt going to make me forget about the bible telling us to "dash the heads of babes against the rocks". but its all a matter of translation, right?

give me the authority to carry out political assassinations and i'll solve half the worlds problems because i'd kill dictators that not only opress their people, but dictators that manage to do whatever they want because they dont have resources valuable enough to be exploited fully by america.

shit, ill blast caps in they asses for free.



let's roll.

I was just wondering Do you really think you are going to change a billion mens opinion on how to live what to eat to wear to pray and to beat their women to change and embrace your so called freedoms???

i dont think you're filled with hate though, torog. i just think that you dont see how much bad can and will come out of the "good" things you support. if i thought you were bad just because you wanted to preserve freedom differently, i'd just be acting like the children in the "bi-partisan" senate.

I just dont see the outcome happining in a happy way...Who ever started it this thing will grow for years because people who share your beliefes are scared to accept evoulution.........God Bless Kansas!!!!!!!!!!

How will it end??? not if "WE" lose???????????

who needs evolution when you can just in-breed. all the smart people married their cousins. God, no offense torog, but it just sickens me that alot of ignorant know-nothing hicks in the south actually helped GW to win because they thought he was real smart.

not that i wouldve voted democrat myself...

there are alot more republicans besides the south.the republicans are moving in on democrat territory.look at the comparison between the 2000 and 2004 election county by county results,the republicans picked up voters in all the staes.

Why do you say that behind the news is the fact that Spain like other followers of the lie just got smart to the lie We can take it over here we dont cry when 3000 die we get on with it because we have lived it for a long time.

Again how do you possibly think you will "Win"