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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
wow, this can only do harm...
FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Financial Times | June 22, 2005
By Clive Cookson
Meat and milk from cloned farm animals is about to be declared safe for human consumption by the US Food and Drug Administration, one of the world's most powerful regulatory bodies.
A favourable risk assessment from the FDA is expected to start the commercial exploitation of cloning to improve livestock quality around the world.
FDA officials told the BIO 2005 biotech industry conference they had completed a four-year assessment process and concluded that cloned animals and their progeny would be as safe to eat as conventionally bred animals. They also found that cloning was acceptable from the viewpoint of animal welfare.
Scientists said the first pork and beef from cloned animals could reach the market next year. John Matheson, senior regulatory scientist at the FDA, said uncertainty in the US government about the ethics of animal cloning had delayed publication of the assessment.
But Mr Matheson said he expected the assessment to appear any day.
??The FDA would want the ethics to go away but there are people with legitimate concerns about the impact of this technology,? he said.
At the FDA's request, agricultural biotechnology companies and the livestock industry have been observing a moratorium on the commercial introduction of meat and milk from cloned animals and their offspring.
Mr Matheson said this should continue until the assessment had been published and was then revised after a two-month period for public comments. Irina Polejaeva, chief scientist for ViaGen, a leading animal cloning company, said other countries with strong livestock sectors such as Australia and New Zealand were waiting for the FDA assessment.
She said meat from cloned animals could be on sale next year. The public still imagined that animal cloning was an inefficient process that produced unhealthy animals, Ms Polejaeva said. But cloning procedures had improved greatly during the eight years since Ian Wilmut and colleagues at the Roslin Institute in Scotland first used them to produce Dolly the sheep.
Larisa Rudenko, FDA senior biotechnology adviser, said that although cloned animals were more likely to suffer birth defects and health problems when very young, after about 50 days old they were as healthy as animals conceived conventionally. The FDA assessment analysed the biochemical composition of meat and milk from cloned animals and their offspring and found it was the same as that from conventional animals.
ViaGen and Cyagra, another US-based livestock cloning company, supplied much of the data for the assessment. Between them, the two companies have produced several hundred cloned pigs and cattle.
In practice most meat and milk would not come from clones themselves, which would be used to improve the agricultural gene pool, but from their progeny. MsRudenko said: ??Clones are for breeding not for eating.? Alejandro Cantarelli, Cyagra's chief executive, said a lot of people confused animal cloning with genetic engineering. ??A clone is not a transgenic animal; it is a genetic replica of the founder animal,? he said.
Roslin Institute's original Dolly cloning patents are now owned by Start Licensing, a Texas-based company set up in April to find commercial applications for animal reproductive technologies.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Ok, so explain why meat from cloned animals would be bad? Do you know what cloning is, how it works and what is done to perform it? The meat from a normally-raised domestic animal would be completely indistinguishable in every significant manner from the meat from its clone. How could that possibly be unsafe?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
i can't explain it in a few sentences...i've spent a rather long time looking at all sides of this issue, and i cannot reach the conclusion that eating cloned or genetically modified food is good for your health, as opposed to grass fed cows and free range chicken and eggs and organic fruit and vegetables grown without pesticides locally...across the board.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
i've spent a rather long time looking at all sides of this issue, and i cannot reach the conclusion that eating cloned or genetically modified food is good for your health...
Then you do not understand cloning. Is it your contention that if a hand-raised, grass-fed, free-range cow is cloned, and it's clone "offspring" is raised in the same manner, in the same environment, on the same feed then the meat from this clone will somehow be worse for you than the meat from its "parent"? Explain this, please. Or at least post links to clinical studies which demostrate this.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Well I wouldnt be opposed to it if it was 100% safe. I wish that we could have improved our systems for slaughter of animals first. It's really inhumane for real. I love me meat though. Cant beat it... lol.
But seriously. When this takes effect we should push for more aid to third world countries. There is NO danger of animals being extinct from our current practices. With cloned animals then there should be no problem delivering more aid to third world countries that actually need to put on weight.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Then you do not understand cloning. Is it your contention that if a hand-raised, grass-fed, free-range cow is cloned, and it's clone "offspring" is raised in the same manner, in the same environment, on the same feed then the meat from this clone will somehow be worse for you than the meat from its "parent"? Explain this, please. Or at least post links to clinical studies which demostrate this.
No beeblebrox...deconstructive arguements bad...pisshead good. He did admit that he couldnt explain in few sentences and needed to research more. I'm pretty sure he was talking about the process of engineering a clone and what procedures are used and what effects it would have on the human body (if any).
Please post more if you find it pisshead.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
Well I wouldnt be opposed to it if it was 100% safe.
Well, nothing is 100% safe. But I fail to see why cloned meat should be any less safe than meat harvested the traditional way. The only real difference is in the means of conception. One difference of not is the apparent shortening of the ends of chromosomes, called telomeres, but it is not believed that these have any other effect than to possibly reduce longevity - natural telomere shortening seems to occur along with aging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
I wish that we could have improved our systems for slaughter of animals first. It's really inhumane for real. I love me meat though. Cant beat it... lol.
The method most widely employed for cattle, pigs, sheep and other large food animals in the US involves driving a short spike into the brain at a high velocity. This kills almost instantaneously. It is highly likely that the animal is dead before it can even feel anything. Despite its gruesome appearance, it's really about as humane as its possible to be.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Then you do not understand cloning. Is it your contention that if a hand-raised, grass-fed, free-range cow is cloned, and it's clone "offspring" is raised in the same manner, in the same environment, on the same feed then the meat from this clone will somehow be worse for you than the meat from its "parent"? Explain this, please. Or at least post links to clinical studies which demostrate this.
agreed.
maybe if we replace the term "cloning" with something more user-friendly there would be less arguments against it. u see the word "cloning" and you associate it with certain things, u see?
of course im personally against all factory farming techniques so it doesnt even affect my life.
:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
The method most widely employed for cattle, pigs, sheep and other large food animals in the US involves driving a short spike into the brain at a high velocity. This kills almost instantaneously. It is highly likely that the animal is dead before it can even feel anything. Despite its gruesome appearance, it's really about as humane as its possible to be.
i disagree. there have been numerous reports that ive read that state that this method is not foolproof, or humane. something like 1 in 7 of the cattle are not killed instantly but instead are just really fucked up.. :(
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasstanko
No beeblebrox...deconstructive arguements bad...pisshead good.
No. He said nothing about needing further research. He said only that he could not explain it in a few sentences; I did not ask him to. He can take as many sentences as he needs - I will read it. I also invited him to post links, if he could find them. He must have a reason for reaching the conclusion (or failing to reach the conclusion) he did. I explained my reasons, in considerable detail. I'm now asking the same of him.
So, what's your point again?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
there's no point to it...it's unnecessary. go ahead and eat it all day long...i don't care, all i want to know is if what i'm eating is cloned or not...
it's like...why don't we start cloning trees and planting those...why? let's just use the trees we already have...
not to mention i don't trust the giant cloning/gm food corporations...and the current standard in the meat market, they way they're killed and what they're fed.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Well, nothing is 100% safe. But I fail to see why cloned meat should be any less safe than meat harvested the traditional way. The only real difference is in the means of conception. One difference of not is the apparent shortening of the ends of chromosomes, called telomeres, but it is not believed that these have any other effect than to possibly reduce longevity - natural telomere shortening seems to occur along with aging.
The method most widely employed for cattle, pigs, sheep and other large food animals in the US involves driving a short spike into the brain at a high velocity. This kills almost instantaneously. It is highly likely that the animal is dead before it can even feel anything. Despite its gruesome appearance, it's really about as humane as its possible to be.
True. I didnt know about the spike to the brain thing, but i really meant the way they are forced to live before death. Teeny tiny cages with no room to move. Imagine, it's almost as if it didnt matter whether or not they were born paralysed.
Also think about when an infection breaks out in say a chicken farm. Loads and loads of chicks and animals are just thrown into garbage bags alive and sent off to the incinerator or whatever they use to dispose of the bodies.
Not arguing, just expressing my thoughts on what i mean by inhumane treatment.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
No. He said nothing about needing further research. He said only that he could not explain it in a few sentences; I did not ask him to. He can take as many sentences as he needs - I will read it. I also invited him to post links, if he could find them. He must have a reason for reaching the conclusion (or failing to reach the conclusion) he did. I explained my reasons, in considerable detail. I'm now asking the same of him.
So, what's your point again?
Yeh you're right. my bad on that one.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
there's no point to it...it's unnecessary. go ahead and eat it all day long...i don't care, all i want to know is if what i'm eating is cloned or not...
it's like...why don't we start cloning trees and planting those...why? let's just use the trees we already have...
not to mention i don't trust the giant cloning/gm food corporations...and the current standard in the meat market, they way they're killed and what they're fed.
LOL. Have you ever eaten government cheese? And we want to trust those guys to make meat for us?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
The method most widely employed for cattle, pigs, sheep and other large food animals in the US involves driving a short spike into the brain at a high velocity.
Eeew, what the hell? :eek: I never knew that. Better then throwing them head first into a giant mincing vat I guess.
Hmm, something to add while i'm here...
I admit I don't know myself the complications of cloning (should I? lol) but there's something kinda creepy about eating a cloned animal. They'll have to start putting huge stickers reading "CLONED MEAT" on the products, that seems kinda fucked up in a weird, sci-fi kinda way.
Anyway, carry on.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Button Basher
Eeew, what the hell? :eek: I never knew that. Better then throwing them head first into a giant mincing vat I guess.
Believe it or not, that would probably be just as humane, despite its truly gory nature. Death would be nearly instantaneous. I should explain that in the modern method, the spike is driven by a special pneumatic hammer. It's very fast. It supplanted the older method in which a sledghammer was used.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
it's not like we have a meat shortage in this country...
just search for cloning animals for food and you'll find out how it's done, and the side effects...
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
true..a giant mincing vat would at least ensure a quick end..
i looked for links and such to back my claim about the ineffectiveness of the spike, but i didnt really see anything. so, i could be right still, but lack of proper evidence and such, so, i withdraw my comment about it. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
it's not like we have a meat shortage in this country...
just search for cloning animals for food and you'll find out how it's done, and the side effects...
wat side effects yo? cancer? maybe obesity and hormone problems? those are already side effects from the drugs theyre pumpin in those critters..
WEEDS YUMMY!! :)
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
just search for cloning animals for food and you'll find out how it's done, and the side effects...
It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to back it up with research. I will not do your research for you. If you can't provide valid arguments for your position, then you have lost the debate. I've provided detailed arguments for my position. Where are yours? Hmm?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
you have nothing to worry about, eat the stuff...i don't care. i choose not to. i'll stick to free range grass fed animals, while i still have the right to know that's what i'm getting.
searching for that i came up with link after link of studies on cloning techniques and effects. i'm not going to hold your hand.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
That is such a cop-out.
So, I claim victory :D
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
well, for anyone who cares...go to www.google.com and type in 'cloning animals for food' or 'cloned animals health problems' or something simliar.
you're going to find hundreds of pages of stuff.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Personal blogs and websites, biased publications and opinions based on conjecture do not count. I want replicable, peer-reviewed studies with data I can examine for myself. A reputable site with articles like this, on the website of the Biotechnology department of Penn State University:
Quote:
The possibility of certain genetically engineered fish and other animals escaping and potentially introducing engineered genes into wild populations tops the list of concerns associated with advances in animal biotechnology, says a new report from the National Academies' National Research Council. On the other hand, no evidence yet exists that products from cloned livestock are unsafe for human consumption, although the committee that wrote the report found it difficult to identify concerns without additional information about food composition, which could be collected using available analytical tests.
Note the balanced approach to the issue - a hallmark of a reputable source. Is it possible that cloned meat is less safe? Yes. But, its not very likely.
Bolding mine.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
eat it all day long then...good for you. i hope you wouldn't support forcing people to not have another choice other than cloned meat.
i choose not to. am i allowed to do that? from what i've read, i have personally found reason enough to not want to eat it. you seem very threatened by my choosing not to do something you don't have a problem with.
i'm sorry.
i'm also sorry i can't ignore moderators...
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Relax, pal. I'm not moderating here, I'm debating. You'll know when iI'm moderating, believe me. :D
I'm am neither threatened nor discouraged by your choice. I'm here to try to educate you and those reading this. In the end, that's really what a debate is meant to be. Ultimately, the free market will determine whether or not cloned meat is successful. All we can do is wait and see. If you choose not to defend your position, well, that's no skin off my nose, either.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
the problem is, even if people are against it, this won't be widely publicized and most people will have no idea what they're getting.
i think most people would rather eat a real cow than a cloned one.
they don't even know what they're getting now in the fruit section of big chain grocery stores.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Ok, I agree Pisshead has done little to support his agruments and most of his posts are a bit too heavy on conspiracy theory for me. In many ways, however, I have to agree that cloning for food is a bit scary. I have no moral/ethical issues with cloning and agree that there would be no or little difference between cloned and natural meat if the means of conception was the only difference. But what would be the point? The last time I heard big cows didn't have a whole lot of trouble having little baby cows all by themselves. And, how could all that technology be any more cost effective than just letting the cows go hump each other out in the fields?
The only benefit to cloning animals for food that I can see would be the genetic tweaking that would go along with it. I don't mean cross pollinating one sativa with an indica to get a real nice smoke, that's natural. I'm more concerned with them screwing around with the dna to get some kind of super cow. Sure, the idea of a 10lb. fillet mignon is quite tempting but who knows what the long term effects would be. I actually doubt we'd see any problems to our immediate health but what about future generations?
History has shown that when we fuck with mother nature mother nature fucks back. As soon as we cure one disease another nastier one pops up. Pesticide resitant insects are popping up all over the place. Girls are getting their periods much younger than they used to and many believe (maybe it's actually been proven-don't know myself) that its from all the hormones in the milk children drink. Plus, just look at the posts in some of the other forums from some of the younger members of this board. Something is making them get dumber and dumber....That was a joke, sorry.
Anyhow, I don't have any proof that this would be bad for you but it's just a hunch. In any case I don't want my great granchildren loking like this guy
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
The advantage would be economic. Farms would no longer have to support males for breeding purposes. As a result, the price of beef would drop and farms would become more profitable. Economics drives all technological development in the private sector.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Believe it or not, that would probably be just as humane, despite its truly gory nature. Death would be nearly instantaneous. I should explain that in the modern method, the spike is driven by a special pneumatic hammer. It's very fast. It supplanted the older method in which a sledghammer was used.
Yeh, eating cloned meat doesnt seem to be a big deal as long as they dont need radiation or anything to make it. It also seems weird why we're exploring this now at or current situation...but i guess its better to start researching as early as possible in case something happens. I don't think cloned meat is gory at least not gorier than the way we get meat now.
Hey, didnt they once say they wanted to just clone the parts of animals so they wouldnt have to slaughter them?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fengzi
Ok, I agree Pisshead has done little to support his agruments and most of his posts are a bit too heavy on conspiracy theory for me. In many ways, however, I have to agree that cloning for food is a bit scary.
thanks, i think...i do however, for whatever i say post a link to it, and in many cases to archives of similar posts...i back up what i say from local tv news sites and newspapers from around the country, legislation, congressional testimony, government websites, multiple newswires, etc.
i won't hold peoples' hands but i'll give them resources to look stuff up on their own, if they want to.
there is no cow shortage or land shortage or food shortage for animals as far as i can tell, the process of cloning animals to eat is unnecessary.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
Relax, pal. I'm not moderating here, I'm debating. You'll know when iI'm moderating, believe me. :D
I'm am neither threatened nor discouraged by your choice. I'm here to try to educate you and those reading this. In the end, that's really what a debate is meant to be. Ultimately, the free market will determine whether or not cloned meat is successful. All we can do is wait and see. If you choose not to defend your position, well, that's no skin off my nose, either.
Hey beeblebrox. stop using well-thought out responses and arguements to make pisshead stop and think more about his point of view in its entirety. Where do you get off trying to bait him like that?
Lol. thought we could use a chuckle/
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
The advantage would be economic. Farms would no longer have to support males for breeding purposes. As a result, the price of beef would drop and farms would become more profitable. Economics drives all technological development in the private sector.
Ah...im glad you brought that up now actually. Think about cannabis and hemp. There's more than abundance of it but the gov. insists on keeping it illegal because of all the free financial capital they canget from it. drug money is never taxed. its labeled as disposable income for government use.
Do you think that for a second if beef was privatised the government would look out for farmer joe? i dont know but using history...id say no.
They'd set up a monopoly or at least help those rich enough to contribute to their campaigns...wal-mart....microsoft...oil...anyone remember those? Truth is, farmers are going to get fucked. plain and simple. with them not being able to afford land...guess who gets to claim it when the mortgage doesnt get paid and the bank has an auction...
...think walmart....smallville style...
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
The advantage would be economic. Farms would no longer have to support males for breeding purposes. As a result, the price of beef would drop and farms would become more profitable. Economics drives all technological development in the private sector.
But would there really be an economic advantage? How much does it really cost to support breeding males. I don't know about genetics/cloning but I do know about semiconductor production. It can cost billions of $ to build a modern wafer fab. I can imaging something as high tech as building a mass cloning/genetic engineering facility would be equally expensive. How long would it take to make up that cost?
Not arguing with ya Beeble, these are just the questions I ask myself on this issue.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
farming hasn't been that big of a problem in the past couple hundred years...people have survived without this in the past...there's no reason it should be going on.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
They wouldn't need to build any additional infrastructure. All they would need to do is to farm out the actual cloning process to existing laboratories, who are already set up do do similar work, such as artificial insemination. The farm would only need a technician to do the actual implanation into the female cows intended to give birth to the cloned offspring.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
mmm, sounds tasty.
i'll stick with the local farmer's market, it has seemed to work for a long time.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
They wouldn't need to build any additional infrastructure. All they would need to do is to farm out the actual cloning process to existing laboratories, who are already set up do do similar work, such as artificial insemination. The farm would only need a technician to do the actual implanation into the female cows intended to give birth to the cloned offspring.
Maybe...but the existing facilities are doing this on a very limited basis. Could they really handle the volume required for mass food production?
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox.420
They wouldn't need to build any additional infrastructure. All they would need to do is to farm out the actual cloning process to existing laboratories, who are already set up do do similar work, such as artificial insemination. The farm would only need a technician to do the actual implanation into the female cows intended to give birth to the cloned offspring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pisshead
mmm, sounds tasty.
Lol :D !
Yeah, i'm gonna have to go with Pisshead on this one. You could show me all the lab blueprints you want but funnily enough, i'd rather have the real thing. So sue me.
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FDA to declare safe meat and milk from clone animals
Quote:
Originally Posted by Button Basher
Lol :D !
Yeah, i'm gonna have to go with Pisshead on this one. You could show me all the lab blueprints you want but funnily enough, i'd rather have the real thing. So sue me.
Yeh im down with the basher on that one. If you told me all cloned food would go towards world aid then i'll rally for that cause. but as for supporting commercialism where i choose between either "original cloned" or "new classic cloning" then what's the point?
