SUBSTITUTION: tips, tricks and guidelines

SUBSTITUTION: Tips, tricks and guidelines by N2

Invest a few bucks in a human digital thermometer. They are fast and accurate. I cannot over emphasize the importance of PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and PRACTICE!!! If you use condoms, be sure you use NON-lubricated condoms and rinse the condom to remove the powder from it. You can also use a well rinsed, 2 oz shampoo bottle (travel size). Now that you have your digital thermo and condoms/shampoo bottle, start practicing by filling your chosen container with 105 degree water. If using a condom, fold the loaded condom over the tip of the digital thermo to take its temp. If using a plastic bottle, place the tip of the thermometer directly into the water. Place the bottle/condom in your crotch. (Two pair of tighty whityâ??s holds it in place better and adds extra insulation to maintain the temp) In my experience, I find the water/pee container crotched inside your briefs, cools at a rate of about 1 degree every 2-3 minutes until it stabilizes at about 94-98 degrees. DO NOT plan on using toilet/bathroom water to cool it down. Most testing joints color their toilet water blue to foil using it, and if they hear you turn on the sink water or flush the john before you give them your sample, they may require you to re-submit or fail you. If your sample is to warm when you get it in the cup, simply swish it around in the cup while you blow on it. You can cool it at a rate of about 1 degree every 30 seconds, but don't over do it. PRACTICE! You can't re-warm it at that point. In the reverse, I find I can warm a substitute urine product from my pocket temp of 85-88 to 96-98 in about 20 minutes with body heat by crotching the container. The test cup temp strip is attached to the cup just like they are stuck to the side of a fish aquarium. The temp strip will read from 90-100 (some non-DOT require 94-100) so you can see your pee temp and cool it if necessary before you give it to the collector. One more tip. If you are using a condom, I don't tie the end of the condom. It is too risky in my humble opinion (IMHO) to try to puncture it to get your pee out. I take the condom with my 2+ ounces of pee in it and give it a spin, like you would a bread bag. Then double it over itself and use a wire tie (trash bag/bread bag type tie) with the ends rolled over them selves (to prevent puncture) and twist it tight to close the condom. To empty your condom, simply untwist the wire tie and let the condom untwist. Then place the open end of the condom in the cup and empty it. Check the temp on the side of the cup, and give it to the collector. Once again let me say PRACTICE. Practice carrying it in your crotch, practice emptying it into the cup, etc, just practice.

Men: IMHO the best place/way to crotch and carry the 2oz shampoo bottle/condom is to place it between your scrotum and anus. If you have any question as to where this spot is, stand up with your feet shoulder width apart. Reach down with your hand and cup your testicals. Note where your bird and ring fingers are touching. That is where you want to carry the bottle. It this position I find you can carry on about your activities normally while maintaining a 94-95 degree sample temp. To raise the sample temp to 97-98, simply sit down and cross you legs so that the container is enclosed between your thighs. It about 10-15 minutes the sample will warm to body temp, 97-98.

Women: You can of course carry a substitute sample the same as the men, but post by females write that it is also easy to carry the bottle inside your vaginal cavity, where it will maintain a 98 degree sample temp or you can use two 1oz bottles and place one under each breast, held in place with a well padded bra for added insulation in maintaining the temp.

Please remember that these suggestions are just guidelines and may need to be slightly modified to suit your particular need and comfort. The key to successfully substituting is to PRACTICE.

I forgot to attach a picture of 3 travel size shampoo bottles. N2

Thanks for the info N2.

I need to add that for human urine, the sample should be used within 8 hours at room/body temp. If you need to store it longer, it can be kept frozen in an air tight container for up to 1 year. To thaw and warm, use warm water. N2

why... what happens if it isn't used within 8hours? will it oxidize?? what if its air tight??

thnx for the tips n2pot.well said my friend.this will help keep the pot smoking brotherhood (and sisterhood),alive and out of harms way to ensure longetivity of the movement.long live the doobie brothers..............

Killer, you ask a question that I still have no scientific answer for. I do know from my own experments that after 8 hours the smell is RANK!, and at 24-48 hours stuff will start to grow on top of the sample. As for an air tight container, all I can say is if you keep meat or mayo at room temp for 8 hours, reguardless of the type container, you risk serious food poisening. I would guess that after 8 hours that the bacteria level in the urine may effect the pH and creatinine levels. So I simply repeate what folk in the urine selling business tell me. But please, feel free to call a few urine vendors yourself, ask them and report back to the board. N2

N2, you rock. I read and re-read your tips and guidelines, most of all the part about PRACTICE! Also found great containers and plastic funnels at The Container Store. I practiced walking with that little bottle in my panties, yes, just 'crotched' it, did not insert the bottle into vaginal cavity, and maintained temp at 94. Though I did not see any evidence of temperature testing at the lab. Practiced pouring the substitute into the cup without fumbling and all went well. I started my new job yesterday, and was able to enjoy my last days of freedom flying high! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

Hello,

I was browsing through this message board because
like so many others, I have a drug SCREEN coming up
and I am afraid of failing. I want to commmend you
for giving such good and what seems to be heartfelt
advise. I know that all you can possibly do is advise
me on how to pass this test but I just have a few
questions for you that I sincerely hope you can help
with.

But first let me explain my situation.

To be frank with you, i almost never smoke marijuana.
I smoked abt a thumbnail of weed late night on the
twentieth of may. This was the first time ive smoked
in abt 4 months and before that i cant even remember.
Let's put it this way. I smoked twice in 2.5 years!
The last time was on may 20th and i would say it was a
mediocre high. i took abt 2.5 full deep pulls of the
joint and 5 or 6 light ones.

I am overweight but def not obese..i started reading
up on ways to pass the test...many ppl ive spoken
too feel that i am too infrequent of a user for it to
be detected...whats your opinion. There are AT LEAST
10 days between the day i smoked and the day im
planned to take test. ( it could be more days) WHat do
u think are my chances of passing.

I plan to drink abt 8 glasses of water the morning of
the test, eat a lot of red meat to make sure my
creatinine levels remain in range and take a vitamin b
complex to make sure pee is on the yellow side. do u
think those are enough precautions...i realy feel that
i am too nervous for substituting.

SO BASICALLY:

1. do u think im doing enough? (drink water morn of,
vit b for color and red meat for creatinine.)
-

2. Is there a difference between a drug SCREEN and
drug test? ex. drawing blood instead of getting urine,
etc. im getting drug screen. they instructed me to
clal the health dpet of my frim and tell them i need
to locate a lab to do drug testing. What do uyou know
abt drug screens?

3. i hear that working out strenuously and making sure
to flush out your system is the best (and some say
only) way to rid urself of metabolites. is it wise
for me to start exercising so close to test time being
that speeding my metabolism so close to test might
make metabolites more detectable.

please help! what are my chances in your opinion????
THANK YOU SO MUCH

Just bumping this back to the current page on the board.
Hope it helps.
:!)
N2

I have a pre-employment urine screen on Monday (tomorrow) and I do not know what time I have to go, they are just going to call me and let me know when so it could be several hours.

My plan is to collect my daughts clean urine and put it in a condom, place a hand warmer on my undies, and wear it till I get the call which could be several hours. I have been practicing this method and with a digital therm I get a reading of 94 - 97 and seems to cool quickly. With the forehead type therm I get a reading of 100. what is the deal with that? I am so nervouse about temp already. What should I do, put it in hot water till I get to the facility then "crotch it" (externally). Then cool it off it is too warm? Does the temp strip on the canister stay at the first temp it registers or does it register temp as it cools? Leaving it in the fridge is not an option, I will be at my current job and can not get home before the test. What to do, What to do?
So I have thought of vaginally carrying a 2 oz bottle, but how long could I keep that inserted considering that I have a few hours before the test. Would it maintain the exact temperature without having to warm it at all? or should I keep it warm someother way until I get close to the facility then insert it, how long will it take to become body temp? Please help me, I am so desperate. Thank you

Pre warn the sample either before leaving or on the way. A cup of hot water or coffee is a good heat source. Once inside you. the temsp will maintain about 96-97 degrees. You need to practice with your 2oz container and water!!!
but PRACTICE!!!
:!)
N2

diluted first, had to retest. Got some synthetic urine at a "record store" not diluted, it was ready out of the bottle. It had a temp strip on it, but I used a digital baby thermometer anyway, which was MUCH more accurate. If you're gonna spend $40 on fake pee, spend a few $ on this. I used a small coffee to heat up the bottle to 100, transferred to the washed trojan red, let it cool a bit to 98 degrees (I practiced all this part about 10 times with plain water the night before) twisted up, folded and twited end with a twist-tie and kept it jocked between scrotum and anus. It was not bad at all, and I felt very confident since I had practiced.

It all went smooth, and this one came back a PASS and I got my job. A little reading, and about $50 worth of supplies helped me get a $15,000 pay raise.

Thanks N2, you are the man. We toasted you with some smoke last night!

Rum Extract and water at a 1:3 ratio in a little nasal spray bottle, tucked one between my nuts for years :cool: god it sucked to walk around school lol

i did this monday but i made 1 mistake, i used a lubricated rubber and
didnt rince it out, so what will likely happen to the test? was DOT test

*BUMP*

My fiance had a drug test today. He drank ZyDot (hopefully it works, but it keeps you in the bathroom for sure, not to pee...) anyway, I got a sample from my younger brother and we put it in a rubber, then all was going well until he was in the bathroom at the clinic... He got to go in there unsupervised which was our dream come true until he punctured the rubber with a toothpick (toothpick, my idea, some places have a metal detector wand, and I am paranoid) well, not sure what happened but maybe he squeezed too hard and it busted!!!!!!!!!!! He had to pee on his own and clean the mess up in a hurry!! Still hoping for good results, worried about the creatine level though, we read here that it could be significantly lowered on the ZyDot drink (almost ALL of the drinks). Watch your grip fellas, or you'll bust your rubber!!!!!!!LOL Oh yeah, wish him luck, we'll know in about 2-3 days about the outcome.

Me again!! He failed the drug test....:( We have noticed that the best thing to do to pass is not to smoke. Nothing is 100%, except that whole thing with the tubing and the shut off valve looks like it would work, but I'm sure even those have failed also... Damn, this is depressing ... I just don't understand why it's not just legalized!!! I really feel the pee test is very Nosey, the saliva test is only from the last week or two isn't it? I think that would make more sense. It's not fair that if you smoke on your own time you can't get keep (or get) a good job. It doesn't mean you go to work High!!! That is so unfair, not that the law will change just cause "I" think it should, it just sucks. We followed the ZyDot instructions and it didn't pull thru, N2 has the BEST way, with a substitute in a rubber. DON'T USE ZYDOT unless you really don't give a shit what your results are!!!

does it matter if ur a guy and use a girls piss for a test?

Nope. Gender is irrelevant when analyzing for drugs. Any human sample can be used as long as the person is drug-free and not overhydrated.

thanks, that just makes it allot easyer for me to get clean urin

the hypothetical has a possibility of happening that a dude has a chick give him urine so he can hide it and use it for his UA. They could find out that she's pregnant when she didn't kow it herself. And why all the discussion about the best way to cheat a drug test. Read Passing Drug Tests by Kenn A Biscranium and find out how to rapidly and healthfully detox for any random UA. It was written by a guy who smoked weed constantly while on parole and what he did to pass ALL of his random UA's :thumbsup: It was cowritten with a doctor of chemistry; it is absolutely accurate and very informative. And the Boulder Weekly said the book is "hilarious". Read it and pass all your drug tests from now on.

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the hypothetical has a possibility of happening that a dude has a chick give him urine so he can hide it and use it for his UA. They could find out that she's pregnant when she didn't kow it herself.

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Pure ancient wives tale that goes back to the birth of workplace drug testing. It was often recited by goofy-looking antidrug "speakers" in an effort to discourage cheating the drug tests. I find it hilarious that theres many of the unwashed who still fall for this piece of propagandical BS.:rolleyes:

The thing is drug testing devices have no ability to determine pregnancy. They only determine the presence of drugs. The lab would have to use a testing device designed specifically to determine pregnancy. Pregnancy tests are totally outside the scope of drug testing, so therefore, labs operating in the US are prohibited by law to perform pregnancy tests on a urine sample collected for a drug test. Pregnancy tests can only be performed under a detailed written authorization by the donor.

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And why all the discussion about the best way to cheat a drug test. Read Passing Drug Tests by Kenn A Biscranium and find out how to rapidly and healthfully detox for any random UA.

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Why spend money on a book on passing drug tests when all of the information is found online for free?

The time spent on hawking books could be better utilized on researching how drug tests work and how testing devices work. This information can be found online by making some good use of your favorite search engine (its your freind).

And its all free :thumbsup:

you're absolutely correct that a drug test will not determine pregnancy, but they could check the urine with a pregnancy test. and guess what? they can and do do that if they want to. And you said don't buy a book because all the information is free? Not all this info is valid. Nor or all the answers someone is looking for here. It amazes me how many people think if they read something online it's absolute truth. HA! Burnt toast stop acting like you're a genius and know everything because you don't.

I was trying to make the point that it is not smart to rely on cheating a drug test (which is a felony in some states) when anyone can learn how to rapidly detox very safely by reading a book Passing Drug Tests. But burnttoast thinks all books are a waste of money becasue the internet is LOADED with information on how to rapidly and healthfully detox the body for a random UA... Oh no wait a minute, there is almost nothing to be found about how to use bentonite, cayenne, milk thistle, burdock root, and many other facts that is HILARIOUS to read! Yo burtntoast your parents are absolute failures at raising decent human beings.

I can't find any info on how narangin affects the liver for detoxification. burnt toast says that all needed information is right here on line. Narangin is a chemical found in grapefruit. Come on burntface tell me how it affects the body!!!

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Originally Posted by bongomania

you're absolutely correct that a drug test will not determine pregnancy, but they could check the urine with a pregnancy test. and guess what? they can and do do that if they want to.

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The law says they can't. The regulations are also available online. See them for yourself.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

And you said don't buy a book because all the information is free? Not all this info is valid. Nor or all the answers someone is looking for here.

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What makes you think the book your hawking contains valid information? Can you provide some additional sources which can indepenantly corroborate the info contained in that book as valid? Just because that book was written by a set of people with med credos doesnt make it any more credible. Unless theres independant evidence that can support it.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

It amazes me how many people think if they read something online it's absolute truth.

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Its amazing to me of the wonderful facts that can be found online. For example, the regulations set by the Dept of Health & Human Services. And the regulations set by the Dept of Transportation. And once again, its free.
Is that wonderful? :D

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Originally Posted by bongomania

Burnt toast stop acting like you're a genius and know everything because you don't.

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Jealousy is such a bad thing. :rolleyes:
Instead of jabbing me, you too can be a "genius" by doing your research. As the old salt goes: Knowledge equals power. Arm yourself with the knowledge of how drug testing works, the regulations and protocols that must be followed by all practicing labs, and most importantly your rights as a donor. Yes, donors facing a pre-employment drug test have rights. Donors can be entitled to civil damages if a lab chooses to violate those rights.

Knowledge equals power
Know your rights

And one more time, the info can be found online by making use of your favorite search engine. And its free.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

there is almost nothing to be found about how to use bentonite, cayenne, milk thistle, burdock root, and many other facts that is HILARIOUS to read! I can't find any info on how narangin affects the liver for detoxification. burnt toast says that all needed information is right here on line. Narangin is a chemical found in grapefruit. Come on burntface tell me how it affects the body!!!

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If you further your research online (instead of flaming which BTW can get you banned), you'll discover that home remedies have no effects on ridding the body of THC.

And discussion of ingestible "remedies" are off-topic for this thread anyway.

burntoast says that home remedies have no effect on ridding THC from the body.... ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. Milk thistle contains silymarin which definitely helps, bentonite is excellent for detoxification, anything with polyphenols will overpower the inhibitors of cannabinol and cannabidiol will certainly help, garlic helps BOTH phases of the body's detoxification system. (hey burnttoast, did you even know the body has two separate phases to detox?) But what do I know, I read books and burnt toast thinks that is no way to get information. I also passed ALL of my random UA's while on parole and I NEVER subsituted or used a fake dick, and I smoked chronic just about every day. I learned how to detox the body naturally and rapidly. I learned from certified dieticians, nutritionists, personal trainers, and a guy who got his PhD magna cum lauda in analytical chemistry, who wrote his thesis paper on drug residues in the body. which all adds up to me knowing nothing because burnt toast says so.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by bongomania

burntoast says that home remedies have no effect on ridding THC from the body.... ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

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Youre right. That was incorrect - I said "If you further your research online, you'll discover that home remedies have no effects on ridding the body of THC" - in other words, don't take my word for it. See it for yourself thru your research. Big difference.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

Milk thistle contains silymarin which definitely helps, bentonite is excellent for detoxification, anything with polyphenols will overpower the inhibitors of cannabinol and cannabidiol will certainly help, garlic helps BOTH phases of the body's detoxification system.

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Out of respect for the original author of this thread (N2), and for the good of the board, discussions of this nature should happen in another thread pertaining to that matter, as its totally inapplicable to this thread about Substitution

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Originally Posted by bongomania

I read books and burnt toast thinks that is no way to get information.

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And I merely stated "Why spend money on a book about passing drug tests when the information can be found online for free?" Of course this concept frustrates you - it frustrates all shills regardless of what theyre trying to hawk. To this I say: "Have some cheese to go with the sour grapes (*FFFT*)". Youre statement merely screams that you have no clue as to what I think.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

I also passed ALL of my random UA's while on parole and I NEVER subsituted or used a fake dick, and I smoked chronic just about every day.

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Over the course of nearly two decades, I passed all of my UA's for employment (random, post-accident, RFFD, etc) by using variations of the substitution method. And I smoke EVERY day. Theres no better feeling in the world than showing up at the testing facility with a toasty buzz and grinning from ear to ear while you pour that sub'd sample in the collection cup. And walking out of that testing facility, still buzzed, feeling that you got the system by the gonads - all without any fear of getting caught. Because I am very familar as to how drug tests and testing labs work. Once you gain knowledge of the labs modus operandi, substitution can be a walk in the park - with a toasty buzz of course.
:stoned: :smokin: :rastasmoke:

what temp does it need to be?

The acceptable temp range is between 90-100 deg for most specimen collections, but check your Chain of Custody form to be sure.

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Originally Posted by bongomania

you're absolutely correct that a drug test will not determine pregnancy, but they could check the urine with a pregnancy test. and guess what? they can and do do that if they want to.

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Burnt Toast is right and you are wrong. They cannot legally test a urine sample for pregnancy without consent. If they do you will own your employer. There are so many legal reasons why this has been established, mainly all falling under the blanket of protecting women from discrimination. Many bosses are not happy when they find out their female employees are pregnant. Some are old fashioned and this can be a problem with single mothers. What about if they find out before the woman actually finds out? What if she doesn't keep the baby? What if she was cheating on her husband and got pregnant and say he was away on military duty? Lawyers have protected us from having pregnancy tests run on drug testing samples.

Finally, bongomania you claim to have done all this research on the human body and detox and all this other crap. Your medical knowledge of the human body is quite limited. I shall prove it because you think that if a man submits a pregnant woman's urine for testing and they somehow break several federal laws and do a pregnancy on said sample then he will be busted. Well guess what. If a male submits a pregnant woman's urine and they run a pregnancy test on it, they will think he has prostate cancer and not that he gave a pregnant woman's sample. The same hormones that are elevated during pregnancy are elevated if a male has prostate cancer. Boooyahhhhh!!!!!

hey,

aren't there like heating pads available? I had the idea of buying substitute urine and then putting it in a condom, stuffing it in my crotch with a heating pad like 30 minutes before the drug test. i basically am giving up on the dilution method because it will never work in my situation. soooo yeah. any ideas?

Hey, I have to take tests every week for this ADS bullshit, but anyways. I use a bottle with food colering + water and it works, but the only problem is it makes a little noise when I open the bottle. Is there any kind of bottle that wont make noise when I try and open it, and i can just like dump it in the cup. That would really help!

hey guys, im a med tech. yeah im the one who gets to play with pee for a living. fyi whatever company or po or whoever wants to test your urine isn't going to do any other test except the actual drug detection. pregnancy tests, comprehensive urinalysis, urine micro culture etc, are all expensive. real expensive. the whole point of companies drug testing is to cover their collective arses in case something happens at work while one is loaded. they need to show they exhibited due diligence in hiring a responsible employee and they don't want to spend one more penny than is necessary to limit their liability. po's don't have a budget and have no incentive to spend a fortune on extraneous testing. for pot, all these guys want is a marijuana screen test kit that reads negative, that's it. a couple of things that will get you tripped up: 1)as previously noted, have your sample at rm temp. probably the only check on your sample other than the actual test is when the nurse wraps her hand around your sample. if it warm and one is not acting fishy, her job is done. 2)other than that just think normal healthy urine. almost clear to your yellowish colors and no one is the wiser. as med techs we are supposed to smell our urine samples. that step gets skipped a lot for obvious reasons but if you have left your sample in the car all day and it smells like a bacterial culture we might notice and you don't want your sample to be noticed.
if it looks, feels, and smells like urine it must be urine. ok hope this helps

I'm hoping someone can help me here. My friend is definitely going to have to sub since no way could he pass a pee test in time. He is getting tested while he has a medical exam. I have read the tips to put the pee in his crotch to keep it warm and all that but I'm just wondering if anyone has ANY idea how the heck he can get away with this when it's also gonna be a medical exam where they'll most likely make him drop trou, hold his balls and have him cough.

Anyone have experience with this? Do they have you pee first, then do the exam 'cause that is the only way I can see him passing this thing.:wtf4:

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Originally Posted by IamN2pot

Killer, you ask a question that I still have no scientific answer for. I do know from my own experments that after 8 hours the smell is RANK!, and at 24-48 hours stuff will start to grow on top of the sample. As for an air tight container, all I can say is if you keep meat or mayo at room temp for 8 hours, reguardless of the type container, you risk serious food poisening. I would guess that after 8 hours that the bacteria level in the urine may effect the pH and creatinine levels. So I simply repeate what folk in the urine selling business tell me. But please, feel free to call a few urine vendors yourself, ask them and report back to the board. N2

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just to comment on this--both human and synthetic urine are usually sterile when they come out. after about 8 hours though, bacteria can metabolize some of your waste products to create essentially a "fermented" cup.

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Originally Posted by FakeBoobsRule

The same hormones that are elevated during pregnancy are elevated if a male has prostate cancer. Boooyahhhhh!!!!!

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it's not prostate cancer, it's in certain subtypes of testicular cancer--embryonal and choriocarcinoma in particular. but drug techs aren't stupid. they would definitely ask you if you had substituted someone else's urine for your own. and if you deny it, you might have to deal with a doctor wanting to get an mri of your pelvis because of a suspicious lab test.

but bottom line is i agree with longonetx--they wouldn't run the test because it is an extra cost that wasn't ordered (ie your insurance or the hospital wouldn't pay for it). also the company is violating HIPPA rights if they do this and could be sued or even have their testing privileges suspended or revoked.

I was wondering if there is anything else to use to substitute in because bottles, you have to like un screw it and i get monitered, i want something that I can just like flip off or something, anyone have any good ideas?