so whats wrong with being a liberal?

Is it not oxymoronic to smoke dope AND be a republican?! :confused:
lets look at the meanings...look it up yourself if you don't trust me...after all I am a bleeding heart liberal. :rolleyes:

"Lib · er · al - adj. 1. Giving freely 2. Not restricted to literal meaning (a liberal interpretation) 3. Tolerant of different views, not orthodox 4. Favoring reform -n. 1. A liberal person....thats me... :D

Con · ser · va · tive - adj. 1. Conserving or tending to conserve 2. tending to preserve established traditions or institutions or to oppose any changes in these (conservative politics) 3. of or characteristic of a conservative


It is not wrong to be a liberal, a liberal is somebody who sets the rules of the game to improve society, rather than trying to impose control on a personal level. It is not wrong to believe that people's private lives should be preserved against unwarranted intrusions. ( like the patriot act) It is not wrong to believe that when the government sides with somebody, they should side fairly, not add their power to that of the powerful each and every time. Were the british right to attack the USA during the revolutionary war and tell us we could not bare arms? So Why should we set the rules? Why is it our rules are the only right ones as far as neocons go?

It is not wrong to believe that it should be the market economy serving our interests, not us serving what some elite deems to be the market's interests. (like halliburton and chemiclas, oil, weapons) We should not have to forgo transparency in corporate finance, truth in corporate accounting, and the ability to lead long, happy, and healthy lives, just so some executive who's going to pay himself more money anyways ( can you say ENRON) doesn't see a bite out of his bottom line. Even in purely economic terms, these practices are not without cost to the public.

In the United States, liberals like Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass focused also on universal suffrage, but liberalism in the United States really began with the goals of abolishing slavery and expanding women's rights to create an atmosphere in which universal suffrage was possible. American conservatives were the liberals' adversaries in that they were very class based and generally pro-slavery. The ideas and beliefs of early conservatives and liberals are important because they have helped to shape the modern world in which we live.
SO what are you conservatives trying to conserve.....slavery, prohibition, maybe women should not vote? Maybe we should bring back the witch hunts
and the puritain days...

And, Democrats need to stop cooperating in the destruction of liberalism. We should be proud of it. The excesses of Conservatism are plain to see, people in America are getting sick of it, and yet, we're still willing to play like we're GOP-lite.


So what is it about consevativism i.e. the republicans you want to be a part of? Really I want to know...


THE SHORT FAQ ON LIBERALISM
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/ShortFAQ.htm#conservatism

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zma...ne97herman.htm

confused Cat

im not part of any of them. yes i dont see how you can be a hippie pot smoker and be conservative republican, but really from my opinion both are so bad. and theres a politic forum eh :)

so the answers should be interesting if I get any....debate keeps me from thinking of other shit...what can I say I ask for it...
hey theres a good thread... A VENT thread like for smokr2 you know the seizure lady..venting is important. What do you think?

PEACE cat

I don't see anyone can be anything but stupid if they are a conservative. Being automatically opposed to change is stupid. Sure if the world were perfect, but it clearly isn't.

Ya, being opposed to change is stupid. I don't like changes in my life really, but the world definately needs them man.

what? are ya all sayin stickin to the ol american chart, sayin u need a gun to protect yourself, isnt good 200 years later? or death punishment?

lol well yea seriously i think conservative is stupid. but thats my opinion. and i think liberals are stupid too, but not as the conservatives

u have 2 choices when your an american: u vote for the dumb or the dumbest

right on, BlueCat

most conservatives are for state rights and small federal govt. conservatives, in general, are for less govt period...not just big biz. libertarians have a better handle on what should be done and how and they're not all that far from the conservatives...there are more than 2 choices.

and no, we don't own guns for protection nearly as much as we own guns because we can...

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Originally Posted by mellow mood

im not part of any of them. yes i dont see how you can be a hippie pot smoker and be conservative republican, but really from my opinion both are so bad. and theres a politic forum eh :)

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ever read Dantes Inferno...? there are these different levels to hell in one level people have to carry a white flag that represents nothing....if they stopped running they took root in the ground, fire rained down on them until they burned to death and it all started over for them again :eek:
It was punishment for never taking a stand...its fantasy but has a point.
hope your are good and stoned to get the full effect of that image LOL


pretty freaky but I think a voice is better than no voice at all otherwise we would still be in the darkages....although if we stay on the present path we
will go full circle and end up back there anyway, maybe your are right who gives a shit,eh? :confused:

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Originally Posted by del...

most conservatives are for state rights and small federal govt. conservatives, in general, are for less govt period...not just big biz. libertarians have a better handle on what should be done and how and they're not all that far from the conservatives...there are more than 2 choices.

and no, we don't own guns for protection nearly as much as we own guns because we can...

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that use to be the case...but now with the Neoconservatives they want more governmental control....and use fear as an excuse for it. They change the rules for more control like that patriot act or the fillibuster BS.
The Neocons are a whole new breed of conservative...

i can go with left or right the 2cnd amendment is vital to protection from the govt declaring martial law the left wont admit this i could change my mind if the police and milatary disarmed first the right wont give up that abortion thing they could also win me over on that by doing 1 thing ....feeding /clothing /sheltering and educating every child on the planet until they do both these things i dont want to here a word from either we have wasted enough time fighting over dumb shit on this planet its way past time petty differances were put aside so some real change can take place that will benifit every one instead of a small group of power hungry assholes who unfortunatley have conned us into fighting each other instead of them

I beleive in both conservative and Liberal principals. I am definitly anti-war (liberal) but I am also anti-abortion and anti-taxes (conservative) on the abortion thing. how can liberals beleive that it is wrong to put rape-murderers to death and beleive that it is acceptable to murder a fetus. come on, which one, if either, deserves to die (i will give you a hint, it isnt the unborn child) how can you beleive that it is ok to kill unborn babies. In california it is legal to have an abortion even as the baby is emerging from the womb. that is wrong. i guess I would have to say I am a libertarian.... mostly

Has anybody on the planet considered being a critical thinker?

...........

... didn't think so

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

Has anybody on the planet considered being a critical thinker?

...........

... didn't think so

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Most critical thinkers I know are liberals :)

"u have 2 choices when your an american: u vote for the dumb or the dumbest"
lol, so true

I think it's a problem because then Torog doesn't like you and you are unpatriotic

Fist off, there are, like, 3 real conservative republicans on this site, Torog, Amsterdam, and some other guy who doesnt post alot. I know it seems like anyone who disagrees is a conservative, but that's not the case. I have met many people who think I am some neo-con, because I say that abortion is murder, and that not only do i support action in Iraq, I support further action in more corrupt/brutal reigims. Also, I don't automatically bash Bush on all avaliable aspects of his presidency. I am more likely do defend him for the reasons that most attack him.... I don't like him because he places more importance on crap like space exploration and medical benifits, instead of confronting ongoing genocide on the 3rd world.

To be extreme is to be unreasonable, whether you are on the liberal or conservative side... you have to see both sides of the issue and go on principal, not what the media tells you. So many people on this board are so extremely obsessed/brainwashed by things like Michael Moore and other liberal blogs and conspiracy-therory websites, they are completety sure that Bush caused 911 intentionally, he is in league with Saudis to weaken America for his own benifit, the conservatives are going to move the poor into camps, etc, etc... Meanwhile Torog posts about how you should pray and other brainless crap copied from Hannity and Rush. My point is, it's all garbage, on both sides, pumped into people's brains by the media. Form your own opinions and be independent, rather than copying other's views and labeling yourself a "liberal" or "conservative"

Iâ??m sorry but Conservative and liberal values donâ??t necessarily fit into nice little dictionary definitions.

Iâ??m glad you left the pronunciations of the words intact or we might not know how to say the words correctlyâ?¦nice touch.

Any group that allows the likes of Michael where are the Twinkies Moore and donâ??t even get me started on â??Hanoiâ?� Jane to hijack their party is not a group I care to affiliate with.

Iâ??m a registered Independent by the wayâ?¦

And Torog has the right to say whatever the fuck he likes if you push his buttons (just like anybody else.)

Iâ??m so sick of all the politically correct bull shit were we have to make nice with everyone. And if you donâ??t make nice than youâ??re somehow a hateâ?¢monâ?¢ger.

This is Americaâ?¦we have always been a group of feisty pricks and I plan on continuing that legacy.

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Originally Posted by Mojavpa

Most critical thinkers I know are liberals :)

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:D damn right

I don't think believing that abortinon is murder is particularly conservative... I'm no too sure what to believe - I think that in the first few days it is no problem to abort otherwise you may as well say that everyone must use every single sperm and egg they have to create a new person. However, once it gets to a certain stage I really don't like the idea, especially if it's for some stupid girl who couldn't be arsed to use contraceptives.

As for believing that you should execute rape muderers... if you are a Christian, you should not believe in that. "Thou shalt not kill..." and all the stuff about not judging people. I believe that no human has the right to decide whether another dies or not, except if it is immediately necessary for the defence of others or youself. Isn't that why murderers are wrong? Because they kill people? What right do governors and judges have to say whether someone should die or not?
People should be put in prison if they break the law, to remove them from society, to make them suitable for society (in some cases) and as a deterrent. It should not be a punishment. Americans are so full of hate for others, and I can't believe how bent on revenge some people are if they think someone murdered someone in their family. It amazes me to hear of people who go to see people's executions so they can gloat. Someone who is bad enough to do that is just as bad as the murdered, and I have no sympathy for them.

One of the other reasons I am opposed to the death penalty is the time it takes to die, and the pain the victim suffers. If someone is condemned to death, that is it. They are sentenced to lose their life, not lose their life painfully. Gas chambers, electric chairs and lethal injections could all easily be painless, but the sadistic bastards make sure it really hurts. It makes you wonder who really deserves to die - the murderer, or the person that constantly executes people in a horrible way, and probably enjoys it.

If you are really a Christian (as a lot of die-hard conservatives are) you would believe that you should not punish them, just remove them from society so people are safe, and let God judge them when they are dead.

Howdy Blue Cat,

You state:" It is not wrong to be a liberal, a liberal is somebody who sets the rules of the game to improve society, rather than trying to impose control on a personal level. It is not wrong to believe that people's private lives should be preserved against unwarranted intrusions. ( like the patriot act) "

You say that ' a liberal is somebody who sets the rules.'...I take that to mean, that liberals believe that they can make uni-lateral,arbritary decisions..justified by the percieved need to engage in social engineering,for the sake of 'progress',and often accomplished by liberal,activist, judges. The result is that you do impose control on a personal level. I agree with you on the privacy issue..but we did need some of the tools in the Patriot Act,because of liberal judges,who are more worried about the rights of muslim jihadists,than American citizens. I don't want any part of a national id card,it could very well be the mark of the beast,and if I can..I'll use religious conviction to opt out.

You ask: " SO what are you conservatives trying to conserve.....slavery, prohibition, maybe women should not vote? Maybe we should bring back the witch hunts
and the puritain days... "

Actually,it was the Republican Party,that passed the abolution of slavery act..not the Democrats.

Prohibition has never worked.

America and the Coalition,have expanded the right of women to vote,in a part of the world,that still treats women as second-class citizens and worse,good men and women,have given their all,to promote Freedom..where there was none.

I wish to conserve and preserve,traditional families and values,because they have served us well,as the solid building blocks of the world's greatest country. I took an oath ,made before God,to defend,preserve and protect,the United States of America and the Constitution,I take that oath,very seriously..and to that end,I will remain steadfast.

Have a good one ...

If youâ??re not a liberal when youâ??re in your 20's you havenâ??t got a heart; if youâ??re not a conservative by the time youâ??re 40 you havenâ??t got a brain.

wrong forum maybe?

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Originally Posted by makor01

wrong forum maybe?

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Agreed...

yea cant u lot use the politics forum for this shit keep it where it belongs

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Originally Posted by del...

most conservatives are for state rights and small federal govt. conservatives, in general, are for less govt period...not just big biz. libertarians have a better handle on what should be done and how and they're not all that far from the conservatives...there are more than 2 choices.

and no, we don't own guns for protection nearly as much as we own guns because we can...

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right on.

liberal="the absolute conviction that there is one set of rules for you,and another,completely different set of rules for everyone else." :)

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Originally Posted by amsterdam

liberal="the absolute conviction that there is one set of rules for you,and another,completely different set of rules for everyone else." :)

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I love your avatar....I take it you listen to Glenn Beck or am I wrong...

i do sometimes,i just thought my avatar was funny.it also gets under peoples skin.

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Originally Posted by amsterdam

it also gets under peoples skin.

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Perfect... for Amsterdam.

All I know is Republicans let the side down. Everyone I know that hates American hates America because of the Republican government. There's no other fantasy reason like they hate freedom or they love terrorists or bullshit like that, it's the Republicans all the way (who usually turn out to be the most annoying of Americans).

I have more patience for the US then most people I know. I think Torog and Am are pretty cool (sometimes) but they're still Republican. Shame :cool: !

republicans are gonna be the power party for awhile.

Shame!

relief.

If your on the inside, sure.

what do you mean if your on the inside?

Your glad Bush is president again because your another flag waving Republican. Every other country on Earth understands the bad decision you guys made. Obviously, you wouldn't understand.

I just had a quick rundown of the political forum and you were the last poster on 90% of the threads. Do you do anything else?

makes work go by fast.good entertainment!!

wierd,i doubt the people in the ukraine or the women in afghanistan or kuwait,poland,iraq would agree with you but thats your opinion.its a tough job,someones gotta do it.

Blue Cat-You ask "What's wrong with being a liberal?" Given the definition you present, there is nothing wrong with being a liberal. The problem is that that many so called "liberals" get so caught up in being "liberal" that they stop using common sense and stop thinking for themselves. They also tend to be the most vocal of "liberals" and are what gives liberals a bad name.

I live quite close to Berkely, the capitol of liberalism in America. Or at least most Berkely-ites like to think so. I have seen so many of them get way too caught up in trying to portray the image of the Berkely liberal. They all get together like good little liberals to go and protest their cause of the week. Many know very little about what they are protesting. It just becomes the hip thing to do and rather than think for themselves they just jump on the bandwagon with everyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone believing in a cause and standing up for what tyou believe in. But know about what you are supporting/protesting, and really believe in that casue before you start ranting about something being right or wrong.

The other problem is that that many liberals take things too far. They react to issues based on how they feel they should react as a liberal rather without really looking at the facts and considering the issue first. For example, there has been a lot in the press around here lately about police using taser guns excessively. Obviously liberals and groups like the ACLU are all over it .When I actually sit down and look at the facts, however, most of the cases don't seem to be all that excessive to me.

Now I've had my share of run ins with the police and I know that they don't always treat people equally. I used to have hair down to my waist (I'm a guy) and drive around in a car covered in Dead stickers so trust me , I do know. There are a lot of bad people out there, however, and the police have to do something. If a cop zaps a guy whose freaking out and trying to attack the cop it is not excessive force. If they are chasing a guy who is known to be a violent criminal and he acts in an aggressive manner it is not excessive force. If that guy just happens to be black it is not racial stereotyping. Yes, sadly, there will be cases where it is but from what I've seen most of the time it's probably just a cop whose scared shitless and trying to protect him/herself. Many liberals, often the most vocal ones, would just start yelling police brutality without sitting down to look at the facts and think reasonably.

Now, please don't think I'm a conservative. Conservatives are just as bad. They're just far to the right. Actually, when it comes down to it they scare me a lot more than the liberals because the conservatives have god on their side. I'm an athiest so, no, I'm not worried about god per se. But when you look back at history and see what's been done in the name of god, the religious right becomes scarier than a child produced from the genetic milkshake of Freddy Kruger, Jason Vorhees, and George W.

The bottom line is that so many people have gone so far to the right or left that there is now a gaping hole in the middle and that hole is where common sense used to be.

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Originally Posted by amsterdam

makes work go by fast.good entertainment!!

wierd,i doubt the people in the ukraine or the women in afghanistan or kuwait,poland,iraq would agree with you but thats your opinion.its a tough job,someones gotta do it.

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It's very much a shared opinion in Europe. The next time you chat to one of your friends in those countries, tell them to humour us.

like i said wierd,i lived in holland for two years and traveled all over including beirut,saudi arabia and morocco and never saw much drama.im sure you would find it hard to believe but most of the young people in the middle east support bush secretly.they hate the mullahs?as for europe,dont overexagerate,it aint as bad as you say it is.i am no untraveled american and have seen what it is like.it is nothing.