New Grow -- Need Some Tips

After a failed attempt a few months ago at my first grow, I have bought a 400HPS and think I am ready for success this time. My new batch of Northern Lights has already begun to sprout - Ive got two that have surfaced already. But I have some concerns with the grow space:

1. Ive got a 400HPS and I am growing in a closet - so the temp gets up there... around 90 degrees. I know thats way too hot, so I have a fan blowing the air around and that brings it down to about 87-88. Is that still too hot? My hand doesnt feel uncomfortable when I put it between the plants and the lamp, and they are about 12" away.

2. Since I obviously need to have the fan on them constantly to keep the temps down I am wondering whether the constant breeze may stunt their growth? I know a light breeze is good for the plants bc it strengthens the stem, but the fan I have does not oscilate so it is blowing directly on them constantly. Is this ok or could it be overkill for the little guys?

Thanks for any help you guys could give me, Ill be posting pictures within the next few days too.

Im on my first grow too and asked a similar question as i had a normal fan i was told not to blow it directly at the plants or it could blow them over. I dont know if this is correct but i would blow it towards the light to try and blow the heat away if i was you, and if its only a closet the blowing should rebound at some point and help to strenghen the stem too.

Plants grow well in Arizona where the summer temps rise above 100 degrees all the time. Ideal temp is far less....75 degrees...but 88 is ok.

With temps that high, it is important to have FRESH air brought into your grow area. Just blowing wind around wont cut it.

Fresh air and CO2 in and hot stale used air OUT.

Means you need an exhaust and inlet.

As far as your fan right on them....no problem. Fans will not blow a healthy plant over...it will only cause them to be stronger and more stable.

I have never used a oscillating fan... Just make sure ALL air is moved around...I use 3 fans for air right on plants since the day they were born.

In the attached pic, you will see a fain on the right, a fan on the left, both blowing DOWN.

In the middle, I have a yellow fan, at the bottom, blowing UP.

This creates a complete air movement environment and that is what is very important. Circulate and exchange your entire air several times per hour.

HAPPY GROWING :)

harddon is right! especialy about the co2 in fact try exhailing (talking to it) on it. and for the fan... if it makes your plant bend....... somethines wrong. if it blows over contact me or harddon with pics we'll know what to do... right harddon?!!! harddon???
lol..lol...lol...lol

I have an oscilating fan on mine but I had to make it ghetto and put it sideways to fit my grow room's needs :) but it's been blowing on them since day 1 and all I've seen is AWESOME stem growth. Occasionaly when I'm sitting near them I have the door open as well as the window to allow fresh air to come in and I'm not sure if it really makes a difference but I like to think it is. The only thing you should think about if your gonna create cirulation like HARDDON's is that the leaves take in air from the BOTTOM of the leaves via tiny tiny flaps. So if you're gonna do a up and down circulation have it be like HARDDON's to where the blowing up part is in the middle of the plants rather than the outside. HARDDON, Zandor, and Sykobabble do everything right so if you see them doing something don't second guess it.

Thanks guys,

I took some pictures of my guys, they are 7 and 8 days old.

Ive been able to get the temp. down to 85 degrees so that is no longer an issue.

My main concern right now is that I feel like the two plants are growing incredibly slowly. The same thing happened to me during my first grow, but I had always attributed that to the crappy incandescent lights I was using. But this time I have a 400HPS monster but it seems like after a week of growth my guys are still wayyyy smaller than they should be, especially with that much light.

Since light is obviously not the problem, what else could be going on that I am doing wrong? Here are pics of the plants and the growroom so you can help me out with this:
(NL#1 is Northern Lights, 8days old; NL#2 is also Northern Lights, 7days old)

One more thing,
NL#1's stem has something wrong with it that is starting to worry me. I tried to take the best picture I could but if you look just above soil level you see the stem looks like it is starting to die or is getting burned or something... I remember that happened with my last plant that died a few months ago. Does anyone have any idea what this is???

Your plants can only grow as fast as the leaves produce energy (photosynthesis). The leaves are small, they can only process small amounts of light energy. As more, and more leaves form, photosynthesis will increase.

Yea and try very hard not to overwater in those tiny cups. I did the same thing and I got that same stem problem only mine all resulted in death. Try putting in more soil to make the stem shorter and stronger and hope for the best. Don't water too much because the cup is small plus the plant doesn't grow as much as it would if it had big leaves like SSS said so it doesn't need as much water.

Two things I would consider...

1. Thats a real nice turbo fan you got there. Those things on even speed #2 can be a little violent on such young plants.

When blowing on them, you just want to wisp them with air...not make them fight. One thing it could be, is the stem is not rebuilding at the stress point.

How fast is the fan blowing on them????

Also, NL #2 looks, from the pic, like it might have the same problem going on.

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2. That 400W HPS looks awfully close to be on such young tender plants. What is the temperature at plant leaf top level?

I dont think the growth is any slower than it should be...growth rate will accelerate as the plant learns to live.

Mine were the same at week one....

If you look at the plants on the pic, the little ones are all day 10 - 14. They grew up to be real nice....

Let us know about the fan and the temp..... Maybe we can figure it out.....

I replied to this problem in the other board.

It's Damping off, A Pro grower can spot it a mile away

Yes Thank You,

The fan does blow pretty hard, it was a little too voilent, but I have adjusted it so that its on the lowest setting and the plants are far enough away that the wind isnt too harsh. The 400HPS is 12" away and the temp at leaf level is only 85ish so I am not too concerned. I put NL#1 under floro and will leave it there for about 30hours and see if there is a difference in growth between it and NL#2 under the 400HPS, but I expect any difference to be insignifficant. I guess they are pretty much on track, I may be a little over anxious bc it was at this stage that my first grow failed... anyway thanks for all the help and I'll be posting pics almost everyday if people are interested in keeping track of them.

yes johnnypotgrower we are interested. please keep us advised.

best of luck to you as well.

:)

How are the babies jonnypot?

did the flesh eating bacteria finally eat thru the stem or did backin the fan off do anything?

Cmon, keep us updated.

This is Intensive Care Unit for your plants.

Sorry for the long wait, was away for the weekend.
Day 14

For the last 3 days I have had NL#1 under floro and had NL#2 under the 400HPS - I wanted to see if there would be a signifficant difference in growth. Despite the "damping-off" on NL#1 he looks like he is doing pretty good. He still seems very small for two weeks old so that is bothering me a little. NL#2 did well under the 400HPS, but I think 3 days with no water was a little much for him, causing two of his leaves to brown/yellow around the edges. NL#2 showed a little more growth than NL#1, but still both seem very very small for 2week old plants under so much light.

So now that I seem to have the "damping-off" under control, my next question is:
Why the hell arent my plants growing??? They are both barely 3inches tall after 2 weeks under a 400HPS. I was planning on vegging for only 4-5weeks, but at this rate I feel like I will need to veg for closer to 2 months! What is going on? They should def be more mature than this. If anyone can give me some reasons for the stunted growth that would be great - or at least tell me to chill b/c they are doing fine and not to small.

Thanks again!

A high soil temp can cause stunted growth.

Perhaps the thin plastic cups you are using are letting in too much heat?

Maybe this is a left over of the 'damping off' disease.

They appear healthy though on the new growth.

But yea they are tiny for 2 weeks.

My first grow did that and I was the soil heat.

Thanks for updating and I am sure you;ll get more advice.

HAPPY GROWING :)

under that much light, you should've repotted them after 6 days.

repot them asap and hope you don't have snow white and the potted dwarfs on your hands.

yeh jonny you need them in bigger pots ,proper plant pots look at the pics people have posted for you plastic cups do not grow plants good luck man ;)

BobBong, do you mean to say that they could be permanently stunted now?

What is the best way to repot the plants?

How do I go about it without killing them?

Is there anything important I need to know/do?

Have the soil be slightly moist. Not soaked but moist. Turn it over putting the stem in between your index and middle fingers. Sorta like massage the bottom of the cup (which should be on top now) till the whole thing comes out. Have the next pot be like half full then put in the plant with its chunk of soil in the middle and fill in the sides. You'll see a growth spurt now that it has more room.

Repotting today.
Here are NL#1 and NL#2 when I checked them this morning:

Day 15 - Repotted

The repotting went pretty well. NL#1 drooped over a little when I first put him in, but I built up some soil around his stem and he looks pretty good now. NL#2 is doing good besides the two yellow leaves, but I think that will go away in a day or two.

I added another fan too because the temps have been getting a little too high lately (88-90deg). If I really cant find a way to get the temps down, I am considering moving the operation to the bathroom which is a MUCH bigger area and has a window (which I couldnt open) but I could put in an air conditioner.

Anyway here are the pics of the newly repotted plants, and I'll keep everything updated as often as I can so you all can follow me along and of course give me advice next time I screw up.

thats it johnny def where root bound watch them shoot up now man and enjoy ;)

I hope so...

dont be worried about slow growth man....they can only grow so fast....i we always feel they are laggin ass when really chances are damn good that they are doing just what they can...first pic is 18 days....next 2 pix after that is 23 days....the 2 pix on the bottem are ( left to rigth ) first pic on bottem pair of nl....2nd pic on bottom pair of afghani....now at the 66 days old ( 6 days into flowering ) and comin along quite nicely....dont eyeball them so much...water and rasie lights when needed...all u can really do after that is let them do there own thing or it will feel like its takin forever....trust me i know i just got outta a 60 day vegg a week ago and started another 60 day flower session.........;-) just let it do its thing bro and ull be happy in the long run

Day 17:
Its been two days since repotting both plants.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be an excelleration of growth rate. Both plants are still growing at the same rate they always have been:::: slowly.

Right now I think it problem may be soil temp. The soil feels pretty warm, not hot, but warm until you get about 2 or 2 1/2 inches deep. What is a way to reduce soil temp? Also, about how much and how often should I be watering these guys?

The pics:

dont worry man the plants can suffer from a bit of shock when transplanted thats all just chill unless they have what bobbong says about the stems prob but dont worry sure everything will be cool just chill and be patiant with them as its a long grow from seeds can you not get any clones?
p.s what you growing in a cupboard or what??

Growing in a closet. About 2ft long, 3.5ft wide, 5ft tall.

Day 20:
Nothing to to report. Hopefully by now the plants are over the shock of repotting them and will start to grow in the next few weeks.

Here are the pics:

Johnny,

at the rate these things are growing, its gonna be the most expensive smoke ever grown.

The juice used to produce your stash needs to be taken into consideration at some point. There is the prospect of diminishing returns to be considered.

I would start over and say good bye to them.

Sorry bro...looks like they are now healthy, but shit, they're midget seedlings.

Or, keep them growing, but start a new fresh batch. When the new batch is about 10 days old, you can toss your current babies...

Sorry but man, you gotta face some facts....

Something is fundamentally unsound with the grow. I think it was the disease or whatever it was that you had issues with earlier.

Here is a pic of one of mine at day 10.

Yours should at least be 1/3 of that size..... even 1/4.

Dont take this the wrong way. I dont mean to diss your grow.

I think things shoulod be so much further along is all.

Good luck.

I think you may be right. I have been thinking that for about 2 weeks now. The reason I am continuing the grow is primarily to find out WHY they are not growing. It is not that "damping off" disease b/c that was an isse with only NL#1, and it has fully recovered from it since then. NL#2 is the same size and didnt have that problem... so the stunted growth really cant be attributed to that. Right now I am keeping them alive because thats really the only way I can figure out what is wrong. Right now I am convinced that it is either the heat or underwatering. I have already began giving them much more water than usual (despite the risk of overwatering) and in the next week I will be installing an air conditioner to get temps down to optimal levels. If I begin to see a difference in growth, then I know one of those things was the problem and I can address it in my next grow. If they still dont grow then I may have to look at something like the soil or pH.

So I agree with you that something is seriously wrong, and I am already germinating new seeds. But I don't think I am going to just scrap these guys, I think they are still salvagable if I can find out whats wrong... if even the smallest amount of bud comes out of this grow I will be more than content. This is only my second grow and I have yet to get to the 12/12 stage, so my goal for this grow is to at least get there. Then, next grow I will see if I can actually get some yield.

Thanks for the concern/advice... more updates and pics to come in the next few days.

plant yerself a few new ones and just for the hell of it put these ones into flower and they will actually grow into 1 bud each. I had a couple of plants that were tiny in a hydro setup so I put them into my aero cloner and within 2 weeks they picked up growth a little. I just gave one of them a trim last night because it is starting to branch out and now it looks like a tiny bush. It may not yield the most but hey I have the space for a micro bush. I also potted it up 3 days ago. I will post a pic in about an hour

ok im back its hard to see how much its branching out from the pic but you get the idea. its easy to only grow the more vigorous plants but if you can get stunted plants back in action I think it makes you a better gardener