DWC-Bucket-System-Grow my equipment and questions

Hay Growies,

I've finally ordered all my stuff I need for a DWC-Bucket-System (was really hard to get where I live - in America it's seems to be the easiest thing). I hope it will arrive soon because im very excited and I really want to start now.

I've never had any experience with plants before. That's why I came here to find as much information I need to get a well grow.

First of all - your board is one of the best boards I got my informations from. Here where I live DWC is absolutely unkown - afaik. That's why I came here to get some last information and tips and I hope you can provide me with that.


Here is a list with things I bought - I hope I didn't miss any important thing (if so - please give me some tips on my stuff).

-DWC-Selfmade-Bucket-System (contanis bucket, airpump, airstone, netpot, some tube, ?expanded clay?(don't know the right english word - was something with ton afaik))
-Stonewool (idk i think its 4cm x 4cm)
-Growtent (80cm x 80cm x 160cm) (contains UFO LED light 90W, activecarbon filter, fan)
-Time switch
-Measuring instruments (TDS, pH, temp, humidity, pipette, syringe)
-pH up/down
-GHE Flora Micro
-GHE Flora Gro
-GHE Flora Bloom
-AutoWhite Widow

That's almost everything important i bought.


I want to start germinating 1 feminized samen in a wet towel - after germinating I place it in a Stonewool and the stonewool in the netpot with some ?expanded clay? in it. Now I turn on the lights on - 24 hours a Day - till theres the 2nd node of leafs. Now I'll change the light on time to 18 hours till. If the first roots hit the water I'll start adding 1/4 of nutrients every maybe 3-5 days (???) until I'm at 4/4. Since now I'll give if the full amount of nutrients i should give it by the instructions of GHE. If the plant (indica) is - I think it was 2/3 of desired height) - I start with the 12/12 flowering period. I'll harvest the plant if most of the trichromes are transparent/crystalcloudy and least of it are brownish. I'll dry the buds in a dark well climated room. I'll try the method where you let it dry 24-48h and then put it in a bag then dry it again and so on.

That's almost everything important of my growprocedure.


Here the questions I could think of in before:

-Is there anything else I need?

-Is the growprocedure okai or do I need to know/check something else? What tips can you give me to grow successfully?

-I hope i'll harvest minimum 100g (dry) do I need a SCROG net or will it work without? How much g's can i get maximal based on the area of my growtent?

-Is it enough if I follow the instructions on my GHE nutrients - but of course checking ppm and pH before giving it to the plant.

-How often do I have to change the water? Weekly? Daily? Or just if the ppm is to low?


Now I'm at the end and no more questions come in my mind - thats enough for the first post anyway.

I hope some of you guys have some information and maybe some tips that my first grow won't end in a disaster.

Kind regards,

Growlie.

Attachment 297469

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Growlie

Hay Growies,

I've finally ordered all my stuff I need for a DWC-Bucket-System (was really hard to get where I live - in America it's seems to be the easiest thing). I hope it will arrive soon because im very excited and I really want to start now.

I've never had any experience with plants before. That's why I came here to find as much information I need to get a well grow.

First of all - your board is one of the best boards I got my informations from. Here where I live DWC is absolutely unkown - afaik. That's why I came here to get some last information and tips and I hope you can provide me with that.


Here is a list with things I bought - I hope I didn't miss any important thing (if so - please give me some tips on my stuff).

-DWC-Selfmade-Bucket-System (contanis bucket, airpump, airstone, netpot, some tube, ?expanded clay?(don't know the right english word - was something with ton afaik))
-Stonewool (idk i think its 4cm x 4cm)
-Growtent (80cm x 80cm x 160cm) (contains UFO LED light 90W, activecarbon filter, fan)
-Time switch
-Measuring instruments (TDS, pH, temp, humidity, pipette, syringe)
-pH up/down
-GHE Flora Micro
-GHE Flora Gro
-GHE Flora Bloom
-AutoWhite Widow

Um, if you mean it's an "autoflower", you will not get to choose when to go 12:12.
They will flower with 18 hours of light, or even 24.

If it were mine, I'd keep it at 18 hours with an auto-flower all the way to harvest.
However, It's just what I've read.
I have never actually grown an autoflower as I have no need.
Our day:night ratio is such that anything but an almost pure Sativa will bolt to flower as soon as we put it out
So seek better advice on that.

That's almost everything important i bought.


I want to start germinating 1 feminized samen in a wet towel - after germinating I place it in a Stonewool and the stonewool in the netpot with some ?expanded clay? in it. Now I turn on the lights on - 24 hours a Day - till theres the 2nd node of leafs. Now I'll change the light on time to 18 hours till. If the first roots hit the water I'll start adding 1/4 of nutrients every maybe 3-5 days (???) until I'm at 4/4. Since now I'll give if the full amount of nutrients i should give it by the instructions of GHE. If the plant (indica) is - I think it was 2/3 of desired height) - I start with the 12/12 flowering period. I'll harvest the plant if most of the trichromes are transparent/crystalcloudy and least of it are brownish. I'll dry the buds in a dark well climated room. I'll try the method where you let it dry 24-48h and then put it in a bag then dry it again and so on.

That's almost everything important of my growprocedure.

You have been reading. :)

We'll be happy to help but you won't need much help.
Did your research before starting.
Good job brother!
Now let's see if we can come up with some answers for you.


Here the questions I could think of in before:

-Is there anything else I need?

Patience, lots of patience! :D

-Is the growprocedure okai or do I need to know/check something else? What tips can you give me to grow successfully?

Yes, it's best to flush the Hydrotron, (Clay pellets), thoroughly.
They can raise the PH enough to cause lockouts that will look like deficiencies.
PH some water to about 6.5 and soak them in it with the bubbler going.
After about 24 hours check the PH.
Did it raise?
No? You are good to go.
Yes?
Pour the water out and re do until it's stable.

-I hope i'll harvest minimum 100g (dry) do I need a SCROG net or will it work without? How much g's can i get maximal based on the area of my growtent?

With a small tent and a UFO, I would recommend SCROG for maximum yield.

-Is it enough if I follow the instructions on my GHE nutrients - but of course checking ppm and pH before giving it to the plant.

Yes. with one caution.
I find that most plant nute labels recommend as much as the average plant can handle.
Cannabis is a weed and some "strains" will show damage with the recommended amounts for vegetable and flowers.
I recommend caution.
Slowly increase the dosage until there is just a trace of browning to the leaf tips, then back off a little.

-How often do I have to change the water? Weekly? Daily? Or just if the ppm is to low?

That's a judgement call.
I do DWC, outdoors, in the tropics.
My water temperatures can hit 90 F. on a sunny day.
My Tomatoe plants are pulling over a gallon per windy day.
So I do not change the water at all just keep adding adjusted water.
I have gone full cycle with Cannabis and never changed the water.

Do not go by me, though, I may just be extra lucky.
Follow the res. change advice that came with your setup.
Or wait for one of the real growers to offer advice on that.

Now I'm at the end and no more questions come in my mind - thats enough for the first post anyway.

I hope some of you guys have some information and maybe some tips that my first grow won't end in a disaster.

Kind regards,

Growlie.

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It's a pleasure to support a grower who puts in this much time and effort before starting.

Can't make a reasonable guess at what you will yield at harvest.
Way too many variables.
But I will say that your kind of approach usually makes for excellent crops.

Keep readin' brother.
Got more questions?
Don't be shy.
We have master growers here that are happy to help a smart newbie.

Aloha,
Weezard

Hay Weezard,

thank you for your fast and good reply. But there was something I didn't understand. So I made a research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weezard

Um, if you mean it's an "autoflower", you will not get to choose when to go 12:12.
They will flower with 18 hours of light, or even 24.

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Did you mean the seeds with autoflowering? I've bought this one AutoWhite Widow so if you mean the seeds then I'm not able to bring it into flowering if it's an autoflowering seed even if I change the lights to 12/12 - it will flower if the plant wants to? Okai I see I'll just use a 18/6 the whole grow/flowering process and I don't have to change it some day. How much time do these seeds need from germinating to harvest (dead on time - haha joke). And for my next seed purchase - what would you recommend - autoflorewing seeds, normal seeds or normal feminized seeds?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weezard

With a small tent and a UFO, I would recommend SCROG for maximum yield.

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Okai then I'll build something like this (collegegrowbox.com). What do you think how high should that be? It's okai if you tell me the height from bucket lid to scrog net (since you dont know how height of the bucket). What range could my harvest be with SCROG? I know it's almost impossible to say that withouth knowing all these variables but maybe you know someone with a similar equipment who told you his harvest amount. First I made a thread in a (idk german/austria/switzerland) board but they just laughed at me and said I have to plant 9-16 plants to get ~100g's but I don't wan't to plant 314554372 little shitty plants with just .1 g on it. That's why I decided to make DWC. I just wan't to get some cannabis for me and my best friend - maybe... min 10g a week - because I don't like the shitty shit you get over here (I also don't like the wannabe OG's over here who think they own the town but are 16 years old). I don't want to sell it so if u can't make a "good" harvestprediction maybe it's easier to say "yea it will yield enough for you 2".


Okai I'll keep the "adjusted water" method in my mind and check out what the plant thiks about it. And... there's one question came in my mind... Why does nobody use LED's? Or are there many LED users and just the germans live under a rock (same with the DWC most of them don't know anything about that)?

And again - thank you very much for your good answer. That what you said makes me feel way better than before (because of the german idiots over here and their 16 plants advice...). And thanks for the nice welcome!

My Scrogquestions wasn't well thought out - I'm sry - so forget the height question. Can't edit the post (10 minute period) so I make a new one.

I've researched on SCROG and topping now and did I understand it right that it's not good to top autoflowering seeds because of their autoflowering function (they maybe flower while you are still in topping process)? So there's just the SCROG technique to make a higher harvest with a autoflower.

That also answers the question based on the seeds... For topping and SCROGGING I should use feminized normal seeds, right?

Can't help you there.
I use high quality seeds that I breed myself during the short season.
I do not use feminized seed, because my Medical recommendation allows 3 mature, and 4 immature plants per patient.
That is enough to keep you supplied through thick and thin.

When I use DWC It's way more than enough!
I actually had to go back to soil because I was yielding more than I'm allowed to posses, (3 ounces per patient.)


LEDs?
Boy did you come to the right place!
Been using them for years.
Built my own in 2008 because the commercial ones were expensive and still not good enough.
Attachment 297480Attachment 297481Attachment 297482Attachment 297483Attachment 297484
Click on my avatar and browse through my albums.
I think you may find some useful information there. :D

Shoen danke mein freund!
(Couldn't find a frikken umlaut, so you'll have to do without) :D

Your English is excellent!
I haven't used my high school german in 50 years, it's a bit "rusty".

So I'll stick to pidgin. :)

Aloha,
Weeze

Okai I think the feminized normal seeds will be best next time (I'll see how much yield I have with the auto's). Next time I'll maybe try topping and scrogging together this time just scrogging.

Sounds cool with the yield and the DWC... that makes me feel vindicated - I really don't want to plant 9-16 plants just for myself haha.

I really like your pictures - especially these with the selfmade LED's - How much were the material cost of the 180W red/blue LED?

Haha - why did they teach you german in school? So you are able to call germans faggots even in german :D? Thanks I give my best to make it as understandable as possible haha. I had to learn it in school too and I liked it so I used it as often as possible to improve it - but here it's just ~2 years since school haha.

One question came in my mind... again... :D

What do you think how much heat will a 90W UFO light produce? The room where I want to place my growtent is 16.5C (~62F) - I want to be around 24C (76F) in the tent but I don't know if the heat of the LED light is enough for this little grwotent to heat it up.

Thanks again for your time I really appreciate it - I think I found my master hahaha.

"dead on time" - Brilliant!
Doesn't led work with a rather cool temp? The only way you can control temp is to move air through the grow box. Frankly, if I had to use a grow box, I wouldn't. But if that's what you want or need to do, that's fine. Just make sure you have plenty of air flow to control temp and move in fresh CO2. Are you sure you don't want to try potting soil first? I know you spent quite a bit of money on this setup, but usually for a first grow, soil is more stable and easy to use. But feel free to use the hydro method. It just requires more attention, like your metering several times a day to see where you nute mix is at in terms of pH and ppm. I would use 12/12 lighting for flowering anyway because doing so will save you money on a power bill. If you need to force the smell through a carbon filter, which you already have, but find that you need to move more air through the growbox, then you'd have to blow fresh air into the box, not try to bypass the filter by putting in another exhaust fan. I hope the fan you have is enough to handle the airflow needed. When flowering, these plants always get very stinky and dealing with the smell is one of the bigger problems for a successful grow. That's the kind of problem you want to have, right? Then you did something good. You don't want to get much warmer than 76F for an indoor grow. Has all of your supplies arrived yet? Did you purchase them from America?
Hello Weez, you natty surfer, beautiful pics.

Hay,

thanks for your reply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishpollack

Just make sure you have plenty of air flow to control temp and move in fresh CO2

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What's the best solution for me? Move fresh air in our used air out? I'm a bit scared of the smell the plant will produce that's why I bought the filter and the fan. And I don't really know how much fanopenings the Homebox has.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishpollack

Are you sure you don't want to try potting soil first?

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The problem is that I don't want to pay for thousands of seeds to get a harvest like I would get with a hydro one. I'm at my finals till wednesday after that I have about 2 month free time. Does the ppm/pH dropp/raise that fast? Why does that happen? Everytime the waters meassured values aren't as they should be I should renew the water instantly? Do you think theres a great chance to kill my plant? I really hope I have a good first harvest because I really don't like buying that shit on the streets because I hate these wannabes (and don't really know someone who's old enough not to be a faggot).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishpollack

I would use 12/12 lighting for flowering anyway because doing so will save you money on a power bill.

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Will do that (if that works for normal seeds it will for me as well).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishpollack

I hope the fan you have is enough to handle the airflow needed.

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I got one with 2 levels - 220m^3/h and 280m^3/h (looks like this http://www.bongshop.de/images/vent00...280%20qbik.jpg). I also have a fan inside of the box to make a nice airflow (one like this http://lunachan.net/fan/src/133916697241.jpg).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polishpollack

Has all of your supplies arrived yet? Did you purchase them from America?

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I really lost track of all these packages haha - but most of them arrived - I purchased all my stuff in germany except the seeds. I was about to buy the DWC-Bucket-System in America because you can't buy one over here... But shipping takes to much time and the taxes and so on... so I build one myself.

"Thanks again for your time I really appreciate it - I think I found my master hahaha."

You are welcome and thanks for the compliment.

However, if it's a master grower you seek, I'm afraid your quest has just begun.
I am, in no way a master.

We're just a bunch of students here, sharing what we learn.
Most of the master growers were banned and/or moved on.

As did I.

But, I owe Cannabis dot com for getting me off to a good start. :)
So I come back here to share what I learn from real growers and true visionaries.


On topic:

An advantage of LEDs is that they do not radiate much heat as IR "light" but they do produce heat, none the less.
The amount of heat gain from a UFO varies quite a bit as not all UFOs are created equally.
Fer instance, I use a" Kill a Watt" meter that measures actual power consumption.
The knock off UFOs measure from 56 - 68 actual watts, and some of that powers the fans.

Even for the "good ones" that actually are 90 Watts, the electrical efficiency determines what is light, and what is waste heat.
I had to use flexible duct on my 180W. lamp to keep it's heat out of the cabinet.

So, I'd fire it up and do some measuring.
If it gets too hot, tape some ducting over the fan holes and run that through your filter.
If it stays too cool, (doubt it), you can always cut a recirc. port in the duct and/or add a small incandescent or halogen light to warm it up, yah?

You have an advantage of starting out with coco.
People who learned to grow in soil often have problems with coco because they "Know what they are doing". :D
It is NOT soil.

If you follow directions and never let it get bone dry, it's a lazy grower's dream.
Errors are very easy to correct.

Can't say that for soil.
Soil buffers everything, but that give it inertia and repairs become problems.

When you are ready for a master grower, I'll introduce you to a few. :)

Aloha,
Weeze

Growlie, part of the fun of this is the discovery that you'll go through. I said use soil because it's easier and it looks like you've got some nice seeds and naturally you don't want to waste your time and money, and soil is just a little easier than hydro. Either way you can't overdo the ferts or you'll kill the plants. Hydro is good in that you can measure the ppm on demand, meaning you can see where the fert amount is right away. You can't really do that with soil too well. That's why for a long time it was very popular advice to flush a soil grow with water whenever someone had a complaint about a problem. In this forum and others, "flush with water" was given as advice so often that people just accepted it as standard procedure. The only time you want to flush is when you know or suspect that too much fert was given to a soil grow. Changes to ppm/pH happen because the ferts you put in the water change these values. You'll probably measure your plain water at around 7.0 pH and small amount of ppm as there will be some minerals in the water. As you add ferts, you're raising the ppm because you're putting more minerals in the water, but these tend to be acidic so the pH will go down, indicating that the mix is becoming more acid. This is normal. Typically, you shoot for a ppm of around 600-700 for a new grow with a pH around 6.0 or a little higher. Some people say 5.8 but that might be too low. Try not to worry so much about pH however. Focus more on the ppm. As plants grow they will take ferts up out of the water and your ppm will drop. You will also have to raise your ppm to around 1000 or perhaps a little more as time goes on. You can see that a hydro grow takes more care to avoid killing the plants and some of this will be a trial-and-error kind of thing; you'll have to think as you go along, but you seem like a smart person so this shouldn't be hard. Hydro is easy and grows plants very fast when done right. Soil takes longer but is easier and more stable and doesn't really require the pH/ppm evaluations like hydro does. Here's some reading: Fertilizer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fertility (soil) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hydroponics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For soil growing and new growers I usually suggest they keep it very simple, which means a potting soil grow and in the US foxfarm and roots brand soils are widely sold with good success. To raise the fert level some, I usually suggest that these people use powder ferts like foxfarm's fruit and flower, just one half cup of fert for every two gallons (4 liters) of potting soil. Then you just add water when the soil dries out. It doesn't get easier. you can do what you want and the hydro idea is fine but maybe play with it some using other seeds, like tomatoes if you want. The soil grow will just take longer. also, please avoid using "faggot" here. thanks.

"For soil growing and new growers I usually suggest they keep it very simple, which means a potting soil grow and in the US foxfarm and roots brand soils are widely sold with good success. To raise the fert level some, I usually suggest that these people use powder ferts like foxfarm's fruit and flower, just one half cup of fert for every two gallons (4 liters) of potting soil. Then you just add water when the soil dries out. It doesn't get easier. you can do what you want and the hydro idea is fine but maybe play with it some using other seeds, like tomatoes if you want. The soil grow will just take longer. also, please avoid using "faggot" here. thanks."

That is excellent advice!

Sorry about typing coco.

Forgot you were DWC,
With the title, right in front of me. :o
I blame good meds. :stoned:

The advice still stands though, especially the never let it dry out bit, yah?

Did DWC for a couple seasons, but found the air pump and bubbling noises to be increasingly annoying.
All night long.

Coco is kinda of a solid state hydro, but still gave too much yield, so I went to Sunshine mix #4.
That cut the yield in half and helped me stay legal until RSO needs sent me back to coco.

Had I had PP's advice, and the budget for large amounts of good soil like FF, I'd probably be in soil. :)

Aloha,
Weeze

Typo in my post above - 2 gallon of soil is equal to about 8 liters.
Interesting that weeze likes the powder fert use as he's the first to say so. I've been talking about that here in plant problems for years. People used to think I was full of it but that was the group of years ago that insisted root rot was the source of all problems.
weeze, you meant "dry out" right? not "never dry out." you want the soil to dry because that's the only way that oxygen gets to the root zone. this needs to happen. It's why you put air pumps in a dwc grow or use sprayers in an aeroponic grow. Need that oxygen to the root zone.
The powder ferts are great for growers that don't know how to hydro too well or just want a "water and forget it" approach. There are other brands for this like dr. earth and whitney farms.
Here's a site that has a lot of great info. Marijuana Nutrient Problems

?? How is hydro cheaper than dirt, all hydro growers seem to have a long need to buy list?

PP said:"weeze, you meant "dry out" right? not "never dry out." you want the soil to dry because that's the only way that oxygen gets to the root zone. this needs to happen."

Nope, meant exactly that.
Why?
Because coco is not soil.

Letting soil get a bit dry is OK.
This is not the case with coco.
Different media, different rules

Because of it's structure, it can still let the roots breath when it's quite wet.
That's why I call it "solid state hydro."
Letting it dry out as much as soil can kill your plants!
(Just like hydro) :)

And it wants different nutes than soil.
Should have all the trace elements, not just the big 5, and a lower PH.
Been using Dynagrow, (a liquid fert), but it tends to precipitate over time, so I recently switched to H&G -coco.

"If you are not part of the solution, you are a precipitate." :D

Dunno what you mean about "powder ferts"
Elucidate, please.

Aloha,
Weeze

[QUOTE=Growlie


The problem is that I don't want to pay for thousands of seeds to get a harvest like I would get with a hydro one. [/QUOTE]

How many acres are you planting? :jointsmile: :what:

Thanks for all your replys.

I thought long time about using DWC or soil. And my final thought was - if I make a mistake now - I would make it later either. Even if I start after soil with DWC - I still have no experience with it.

I also think that my 2 month free time is a nice time to begin learning how to deal with DWC. After wednesday im done with my finals and I think I'll start next weekend germinating the seeds.

tlranger that was a bit exaggerated haha but there wasn't just the seedcostsargument not to use the soilmethod. polishpollack thank you for the pH tip will remember it when preparing the water :D.

I'll be watching your time framing with interest. :jointsmile: go get em. :thumbsup:

tlranger, did I say hydro was cheaper? If so, my bad, I know it's not necessarily cheaper.

Weezard, "solid state hydro," pretty funny. don't know it, never did it, didn't realize it... on the oxygen, that is.
Powder ferts are the ones that used to come in boxes, but the companies that make this stuff have all pretty much switched to ziplock style bags. The brand names foxfarm, whitney farms, and dr. earth are examples, and are useful in potting soil as they are designed for indoor and container growing as they contain the bacteria and fungi necessary to break molecules down and assist roots with nutrient uptake. These are ferts that are in powder form, not crystal or liquid. They are usually 100% organic or close to it, as they pretty much have to be because chemical ferts will kill the beneficial bacteria that are placed in the fert to begin with.

Growlie, not bashing your choice to use DWC. It's a good method. It's easy when you understand a few critical details to watch over. best of luck.

Just curious, do you think it's okay to just water your supersoil plants with water from your DWC? I've been keeping a separate bucket going with distilled water and oxygenating it with a pump and airstone and using THAT to water my plants, only letting them dry about twice a week. I go light on nutes rather than heavy and I seem to be doing okay. I think learning how the plants tend to behave and solving problems makes you a better grower, there are things you'd never learn taking a purely academic approach.

Hai,

here's a short update for those who wants to know.

UPDATE:

As above-mentioned did I plant the seed on Saturday (18.01). After 4 Days the seed sprout out of the rockwool. Today after 10 days there are 2 characteristic cannabis leafs which started to turn yellow at the tips tonight. I just flushed everything with pH-balanced-water. Now I'll continue monitoring it if it spreads or not.

To be continued.

If you can show pictures taken in white light, that would be good. Yellow tips early on could mean either too much fert or not enough. Hard to tell right now. Need to know how you're ferting them, how much, what you're using, how often, also include pics of entire setup, or description.

First time I used fert was idk - maybe at day 4 or 5. I use General Hydroponic ferts and added like 4 drops of bloom, 4 micro, 4 grow in 400ml and I was at about 420 ppm haha. Never watered after that because the rockwool wasn't dry. I've attached a picture of a leaf tip (the other one looks the same) and my set (description in the first post).

Forgot to tell you the ppm of my normal water. As mentioned I had 420 ppm and 200 ppm is my tap water so 220 ppm came from the fertilizer.

How are things looking so far?

Everything's fine yet. Since flushing the yellow spots aren't expanding anymore and the new leafs don't have yellow spots. I also bought a humidifier because the humidity is extreme low (~30%) but it didn't arrive yet. I hope they deliver it today. Plant is still growing but not extremely rapid (idk how fast they usually grow from seed) and the leafs are looking really droopy what could be the problem? Humidity? I've attached a picture of the plant which I took some minutes ago. 12 days 18 hours ago the plant appeared on the surface maybe you can tell me based on the pictures and based on it's age if it's growing alright or not.