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Well, I'm going to Find out! Only really applies to me and my particular grow, but a worthy effort anyway. A couple day's ago I put two under the T5's, and two under the HPS.
I think the HPS at 150w is about 18,000 Lumen?...and the T5's are pushing 35,000 Lumen. I will throw a couple pics up when the "wakeup" tonight, should be interesting anyway.
Predictions?
Glad you are doing this!
Excited to see what happens man, I think the HPS will out perform the T5's overall...I'm also a sucker for HPS.:twocents:
It's a win/win for me either way! Hahaha....but interestingly enough, the plant closest to the T5's that is under the HPS is clearly leaning towards the T5's! Huh...I will create a little more separation and see if it continues.
I will say my girl is getting tired of hearing about them and me fussing over them....I think she is jealous!
Stoked for some pics dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMB
My girl gets the same way, but I've been showing her some of the basics so I think it's making her more interested lol
Are you still planning on doing hydro at some point?
why do you over power the T5¨s watt .
if you are gona do this test why not do
t5's 150 watt
hps 150 watt.
i just dont get the over all pics that you are trying to get when you overpower the T5's over the hps ?
--peace--
I don't know yet....I seem to be doing ok and frankly, I don't want to invest anymore into it. I would probably send myself over the edge with that! HahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by jsengbusch88
My girl has a green thumb and I want her to "takeover" a couple clones as her own, we shall see. If she is involved, she will be more tolerant. :kisslove:
That's just what I have running and I'm not pulling bulbs to make it "even". I think it's more a cost thing to run as well. The T5's have more watts, but less amps.Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewgrow
If it was "even" in Watt's, I'm pretty darn sure the T5's would lose.
I'm not getting all scientific or anything, more for my amusement than anything.
the T5HO light will produce more usable light, if you use the correct lamps. 2700K for bloom, 6500K for Grow.
Running 4 four foot 2700's and 2 6500's in the 6 bulb fixture. 2 two foot 6500's on the side light. I wanted 2700's for the sides but the grow shop I went to only had 6500's in two foot. Hmmmm.....should I run all 6 of the 4 foot fixture at 2700? I have the bulbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shovelhandle
OMB, I'm planning on running 6500k in my T5 system untill a little past half way in budding before I switch out to 2700k, only to reduce stretch to keep mine small. But... I am underlighting with reveal cfl's 1200 lumens ea, 2500k. I don't mind stretch in the lower branches/buds, actually want it to bring them up & out to receive both lights. This will be especially beneficial to me, because I hand pollinate the lowest 2-3 buds on my girls, & I want the plumpest, healthiest seeds possible.
-- Many growers are using MH or 6500k T5's through budding to keep buds tight & compact. It's kind of a new trend, & makes perfect sence to me. But I am switching out to warm lights toward the end for trichrome production & ripening. Another thing about the CFL's. Did a little research & found them to put out more uv than any other fluorescent. BIG aid in budding & ripening! & get this.... been reading a lot of research reports from big universities, & it would appear that for tiny grow areas, the set up I've got going will be more productive than the lower watt HID's I'd have to use in such a confined space as mine. So I'm pretty happy with what I have for now
-- So there's a bit of debate going on about cool vrs warm lights in budding. So I'd say for now, lets call it a personal choice. Cool lighting = smaller, tighter buds. Warm lighting = bigger, fluffier buds. Warm underlighting is my own personal twist on the cool light budding thing. :) :) :)
Thank catbuds! Good info. Maybe that's why my buds are tight? The mix of warm and cold? I was thinking of adding some CFL sidelights, I have a few laying around I used for mama for awhile.
Speaking of mama plant....I think she might be rootbound. She has leaf yellowing and some droop too. I have a bigger pot for her, I'm going to do that right now..... I can't stand to see her less than Vibrant.
Right now I am watching my side by side T5HO vs. 150W HPS "bud off". It's been 7 day's and I think the HPS is slightly ahead as far as any growth or color, but no flower's yet on any of them.
But.....My new clones are popping roots, my first buds from the tops of the "stumpy's" are drying, and it's Friday night. It's all good. :cool:
"Here I come Mama, I have a new pot for you"...If Mama is Happy, well, you know the rest. ;)
I have decided I will call you "Mama catbud's" ;) Just seems right to me.
Thanks for the help "mama".
LMAO! mama's always glad to help! :) :) :)
BTW. HPS tends to cause stretching. Look closley & see if there are more leaf sets, or just stem stretching. If its just stem stretching, the buds will be longer, so you'll need to compare by dried harvest weight. That will be the only way to determine if your growing more bud, or just more stem. :) I like experimenting! :) :) :)
I will check for that mama catbuds. I am ok for some stretch, but I do like my stumpy plants due to height restrictions. Gotta keep 'em under 3 feet. :(
No problem with my other two I flowered, after the LST they never broke 9 inches tall! Haha.....but 16"s wide. Go stumpy's! :dance
The new 4 in flower are a little bigger, they vegged for a little over 4 weeks. They are about 12"s. Or were, until I LST'd them tonight. They are about 8"s now.
I'm having a great time with this, thanks for the help mama.
All the girls are showing flower's now, but I have to say the T5HO plants have more developed flower's at this point. Right now, the T5's are winning. Size is equal, though I have tied the the T5 girls down while leaving the HPS girls alone. (testing that penetration thing)
I will try to get some pics up, I realize this thread is useless without them. :(
Hey, I hope you cloned that 4" top you cut off. If not, hope you ate it ! LOL! Thats what I do if they're too sm to root, I eat a lot of pot! Probably the the only healthy thing I eat, grazing my garden!
-- Yea! Go T5's! Can't wait to get get over this flu & finish my cabinet! New 6tube 4' T5's & lots of cfl underlighting & side lighting. For now, they're under plain ole T8's + gro-lux side lighting. Awesome little fat sumo wrestlers, but I'm afraid if they get to big for this light to penetrate, they'll start stretching & get leggy. T5's give pretty good penetration as fluorescents go, so if your restricting size, sometimes hids can be a waste as the T5's will do just as well. So, seems like I've found someone to back me up when I find myself arguing this point! I really like them, enough that my hps just may stay in that box in attic! Since I do grow outdoors too, it doesn't make sense for me to grow BIG plants indoors.
-- If you're going to do any side/underlighting with cfls, try the reveal 20watt (75watt replacement). Awesome little warm lights. Use them in your home too. Great to read by. They're made to simulate sunlight, & they do great things for a plant in flower! On another forum, a couple of the guys have given up big plants & hids in favor of T5's on a sog. They all agreed T5's produced nice tight compact buds. Shovelhandle has a nice pic of a plant he flowered under them. Its one of his older posts & I can't find it, but maybe he'll jump in here & post it for you to see.
-- The reveals are 2500k with an output of 1200 lumens for the 20 watt. :) :) :)
I sure did clone 'em Mama Catbuds! Though I found the tops to take the longest to root compared to a lower "twig" type cutting. Eat 'em? Now there's a thought...little
bit of balsamic vinegar in that salad? Lol
On the sidelighting, I was doing some thinking...Do the BOTTOMS of the leaves Photosynthesize? If not, shouldn't the sidelighting be slightly angle downward to catch as much of the tops of the leaves as possible?
Those T5's are quite impressive, though I'm not sure how "fair" the comparison of 150 watts of HPS to 372 watts of T5 is.
You are right about the smaller tight buds though...The upper buds on my 1st grow were tight. Some of the smaller, inner plant ones were "airy", though I know I can do better.
They really got very little 'nutes...a vacation towards the end and temp issues my caretaker had, not to mention the Evil Spider mite attack shortened my flowering
a bit.
The new girls are all bigger than the 1st grow and looking healthy so we shall see. They are sleeping now but I will get some pics up tonight.
I have more clones than I need now, gonna help another guy out with some of my "stumpy" strain and see how he does with it. He is a veteran grower and it will be interesting to see how he does with them.
Thanks Mama!
The underside of the leaf can absorb light, but most of the chlorophyll containing cells are concentrated near the upper surface. So energy absorption will be much less efficient. Also the surface tissue on the underside is different in composition than that on the upper surface, and tends to be more reflective.
Those smaller inner buds (lower buds), you were talking about being "airy", that's what the underlighting is for. It will help plump them up & make them tighter. I harvest the top riper buds first & the lower ones aren't far behind with the underlighting, just a matter of days. Or if you prefer, harvest the whole plant, but then I seperate the riper tops (some amber trichs, buts still mostly milky) for pm & save the lower buds (milky, but no amber yet), for am. That way you have 2 different highs from one plant, & keeping them seperate, you don't end up with an 'up' high at bed time, or a sleepy 'down' high early in the day when you have things to do. But definitely underlighting will make those lower buds bigger & tighter. As for the photosynthesis, the leaf is translucent enough for that extra light to reach the photo cells, so yeah. If you try it, you'll like the results.
-- I kinda miss the old days.. 600+ big momas outdoors & 20-30 3 1/2- 4 footers indoors 3X's a year. Kinda crimps the breeding experiments, but too many thieves & snitches to go commercial where I am now, so what would I do with it all? Just one of the many reasons why I find the T5's & cfls so perfect for what we do, sm personal stealth grows. :) :) :)
Chromophore, I had to stop for a minute & think about the size of your trees! OMB & I are growing little guys, SOG. We try to finish around 2' tall. The underlighting hits the sides of the bottom half of our plants, getting light to the lower buds. But you're kinda right about the undersides of leaves, but the photo cells still respond somewhat to the smaller amount of light they get from underneath, but we're mainly concerned with lighting the lower smaller buds to beef them up. This wouldn't help you at all. Your jungle is too tall for underlighting to reach them unless you used pole lamps!!!! I'm still playing the cartoon in my mind where you get lost in 'the jungle'! LOL! :) :) :)
I got lost about 20 minutes ago. But here I am.
The T5's are winning...and they are getting so wide I won't be able to keep them off the T5 sidelight for long. I was in the closet tending and time got away from me fast.
Funny how that happens, I like it in there. Just makes me feel good tending to my girls. :D
Gotta take some pics...
I forgot...Mama? Is that actually UNDER lighting, or side lighting? I would gain a couple inches of grow width if I dropped the side light under the canopy, that would help.
My Mother plant seems to be doing better, but I think it needs some serious pruning. Darn thing is thick and dense. Dug into the middle and it's a jungle in there!
I'm pretty sure that's where the ladybug Army Queen lives. ;)
I use metal screen to keep the plants from growing into the side lights (T5). It's the same pieces of screen I use to keep our cats out of the window boxes when we plant seeds in the spring. It's found in the hardware store. Cheap. It has like 1/2" 'holes' and it is easily cut. I bend the edge and just hang it on the lamps.
Here's a couple pics from 11/29 when I put a pair under the T5's and the HPS. I will add a current pic of them when they wakeup.
Some pics I just took a few minutes ago. The T5HO pair are LST'd, the HPS pair are not. Looking good so far, you can see my lady Bugs on patrol. :thumbsup:
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Is it my eyes, or are the T5 buds a tad bigger? I love T5's! :) :) :)
They are Mama....the buds are bigger.. Plants are roughly the same size, though the T5 plants are a bit thicker. Interesting little experiment, but what if I uppped the HPS to equal Watts?
I'm thinking about it for the next round. I'm not about quantity though, it's all about quality to me. This is just for my meds and I'm looking for that "calming" effect as well as for low back issues.
Relaxed...mind slowed down....no "pressure"...that's the ticket. :stoned:
Hey, me too on the back pain. Was in an accident, spinal injury, neck, lower back & broke 3 ribs loose from my spine, mid back. Lots of nerve damage. Have insomnia too, so I smoke to sleep at night. Don't get me wrong. I've always been a pot head, but now I need it. Have several health issues that would also qualify me for mmj too, arthritis, etc, but back & sleep are #1.
-- I really like my T5's. I have a 400watt hps somewhere in a box in the attic. Overkill for my closet. But I may just stick with T5's in a SOG. Indoors is secondary to my outdoor grow, so its quality over quanity here too. My entire outdoor crop was ripped this past summer though.
-- Your girls are looking good, both lights! :) :) :)
Looking good OMB. How close are you able to get your plants to the T5's without light/heat damage? They appear to be much closer than those under the HPS. I'm noticing light damage on the upper leaves of my flowering girls under 600w HPS. I used T5 HO bulbs to grow up the plants I'm currently flowering, and they loved it. Unfortunately they're mounted into a grow tent and the plants outgrew the tent after a month. Also difficult to control temp in there. But they do seem more efficient and the Phillips ballast and 4 ft bulbs I use have been in operation over 5 years growing all sorts of stuff and I have yet to lose a single tube! I'm really interested in whether you find a quality difference with this, as I am growing for a patient with Lupus and chronic back/joint pain.
Hey Chromophore, I get the lights down to 6 inches from the tops or less. I have a fan blowing directly down the "gap" between the tops and bulbs, really helps.
Same with the HPS. I could bring that 150 down to 12 inches from the tops with my inlet fan hitting the gap.
Way cooler to run the T5's...but when summer hits I'm going to have cooling issues regardless.
The T5's are winning....no question about it. More buds sites and they are further along too. They are all "Happy", but the T5's are winning. We will see as we go, but it's clear we have a leader.
Yea! Go T5's! Loving me some T5's! I'll be growing sm plants from now on because of age, back & other health issues. Just can't hoss around the big momas anymore. I'll probably gift my HPS to a young friend who wants to learn how to grow, I don't want it. I'm staying with my T5's with supplemental cfls. Hoping to get a bank of 8 this summer for flowering & keep the 6 bank for veg. I'll still have big momas outside. Gotta have that hefty outdoor grow every year, but even those will veg under T5's till they're too big for the rabbits & groundhogs to want to munch. Just need a little deer repellent & THIEF DETERRENT! Miss my big sweet rot. All she wanted to do was cuddle, but those up to no good would take one look at her (all 120 lbs) & go the other way. Never had a thieft the whole 13yrs of her life. I loved her because she was sweet, gentle & loving. Rest in peace my sweet Sadie. You will never be forgotten. :(
I'm sorry to hear about your Sadie dog Mama....I know the feeling. I lost my Rocky dog,(Golden Retriever) about a year ago to Congestive heart failure...Miss my Rocky dog.
I do have a "new" dog though, here name is Sadie! How about that? Spaz of a Lab with separation anxiety issues. I don't have an unchewed piece of wood furniture in the house.
Not too mention the area rugs, (corners), the molding to the Sheetrock, the hardwood step into the Dining room, and now Christmas ornaments...Damn dog. :wtf:
The T5's....are winning! I need to get a few more pics up, they went 12/12 on 11/29 as I recall. Looking very Happy at the moment, leaves pointing up.
I need to start giving them something...they got nothing in Veg, and I have been using Terra Flores 2-2-4 every few day's since they went 12/12.
What am I not giving them? Remember, I'm still new! Lol
I'm organic all the way, used to mix EVERYTHING from scratch. Too hard on the back now a days, but when I found fox farms products, I fell head over heals in love! Every trace element you could want is in those wonderful organics. Listed on the bottle are the ingredients, but you need to know (or google) the elements in those ingredients to know they are there. You might want to add a tablespoon per gal of molasses every now & then for energy, & one dose of growth nutes before you go to a bloom food. You can still do that even if you've changed to 12/12. I sometimes do that anyway, just because this is when they really expend more energy, blooming! I know you'll enjoy watching the buds form & grow. Its kinda like watching an aquarium. I can do it for hours! Probably why I never get bugs indoors. I scare them away! Haha!
-- I got a new dog too. 11 lbs of jack ass Russell's. ... & listen to this, separation anxiety disorder! Since I can't bend over well or often, he's in his crate when I sleep or leave. Cant be helped. His a smooth coated tiny, the short legged variety. He'll be 8 on my birthday, & still way too much energy, & damned it, he won't share! I have a 38 lb maincoon cat who keeps him in his place with just a look. They'll sleep together, but when Tigger gives him 'the eye', he'll go lay down! This will make you laugh your ass off. This past summer I had a buzzard in the yard. I didn't see it till I let Tito out & he ran over to challange it. That buzzard bent its head down, spread its wings & ran toward Tito. He stopped in his tracks, SCREAMED, turned & ran to me & has never challanged anything again. Took the wind out of his sails, that's for sure. He's not neutered, but that buzzard robbed him of his puppy dog man hood! I love Goldens. They're so dovoted. I love they way they look into you eyes & make you know they love you. They feel good to hug too! I like big teddy bear dogs. My Sadie loved cats. She kiss & lick as long as they'd let her. One day she was nudging my cats belly & her stubby tail was flying in circles. I wanted to see why she was so happy with the cats belly. I felt around, & my god! She was pregnant! Sadie was a great mother, had even nursed orphaned squirrels & kittens. She was so protective of Polly the whole time she was pregnant & would stay with the kittens when Polly took a break. She was special. They'll never be another one like her. She was 13 when she died. Thats old for a rot, but she didn't die a natural death. Someone fractured her skull so they could rob me. I wish them a slow & very painful death. :(
Thanks Mama! I will be graduating to Fox Farms when I repot the baby girls. I guess I need "Blackstrap" Molasses? Or will any work?
Maybe some "Big Bloom" too?
Wow!...a 38lb cat? Now THATS a cat. Karma will get those thieves Mama, count on it. Golden Retrievers are wonderful dogs.My Rocky came to me off the Craigslist. He was supposedly 5 when I got him, poor dog lived in an Apt. with a bipolar father and Autistic son. Poor dog didn't know if you were going to hit him or pet him. He was scared of his waterbowl too....maybe he was tormented when he tried to drink...I don't know.
He got over it after about a year, but I alway's wondered what happened to him that caused that. I had him about 5 years...he suddenly collapsed while playing fetch, ( he lived to chase balls.....I miss that) and I took him to the Vet. Had him on some Great meds, (spendy) that gave him 6 more months of quality life with me, but there wasn't much that could be done.
One of the hardest day's of my life was taking him in to put him down. I just couldn't let him suffer anymore. Jeez...I'm tearing up just thinking about it.
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The T5HO Girls are looking great at 3 weeks in. The HPS Girls are not as full, or as developed. I didn't tie down the HPS one's because I don't really have the room to spread them open at that end of my Cabinet. I don't think it would have mattered, but again, we are putting 372 watts against 150. The T5's have almost twice the lumens and the difference is showing.
12/12 on 11/29 The T5 girls are the 3rd and 4th pics. The HPS 1st and 2nd....but I think it's pretty obvious. :)
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It would be cool to do this experiment setting up both lighting systems so that their output is equivalent in terms of PAR content. Then we could see differences in efficiency quite clearly. Shovelhandle stated that T5's produce more useable light if you mix bulb temps properly, and I'm guessing you could get better performance per watt with the t5s, but a direct comparison would be useful.
watt for watt I would expect the HPS to outgrow the T5HO as the lumen ration is abut 20% better. However, the plants use certain spectrum of light so it would be good to see the comparison. As far as LED, I still see most if not all commercial and academic greenhouses using HID lighting for the plants still. I expect that someday that will change.
Shovel is it true than Cannabis utilizes red wavelengths preferentially during flowering? I keep reading that HPS is best for budding because of its red and yellow output. I would love to see a well controlled set of experiments that test all of these things. Or better yet, maybe I should quit yakking and do it myself.
It's about to get really unfair...Lol.... I'm picking up another 4 bulb 4 foot T5HO for a sidelight. It will add another 20K Lumen to the mix. 55,000 Lumen, 588 total watts for 2 girls.
I will use the 2 foot T5 for underlighting, just because Mama Catbuds said so. ;)