Curious situation, testing for the third time!!

Hi, so here's my situation. I have a DOT pre-employment test.
I tested the first time, 20 days clean and apparently the sample showed up to the lab with the container not sealed, causing the test to be canceled.

After I had given the first test, I smoked. Bad choice. But the second test was a week later, I used canadian QuickFix 5.7-1 to be sure I'd pass. The test showed up as having 'Immunoassay interference' and had a result of 'canceled'.

Currently my future employer is talking to the MRO to get more details and after personally speaking with the MRO she said I'll likely be asked to test again. It has been a week again since I smoked and I plan on using a detox drink, assuming I'm asked to test again and don't just get denied the job.

Here's some information about me: I'm 5'6'' 150lbs, and I have a moderate metabolism. My smoking history is, I was 20 days clean, smoked once, one week clean, smoked once, and now I am one week clean again.

My questions are:
Has anyone ever had that problem with QuickFix on a DOT test before? What happened if you did?

Do you think I'll pass this third time? I know it's impossible to tell really for sure, just looking for some reassurance in either direction. given DOT testing, is it likely it'll come up dilute if I take a detox drink? I'm unsure how that affects creatinine content of my urine.

Any suggestions as to a course of action? or any other information you'd like to better tell? I don't personally have a copy of the result, I only spoke with the MRO over the phone.


I really appreciate any insight you may have!!

By doing a Forum Search with the terms "detox products scam dilution", you'll discover that all detox products are a big scam to separate the credulous from their cash.

Plus, theres lots of posts from those who had success using synthetics (as well as real human urine) for a DOT-regulated test. The Search button is your friend. :thumbsup:

Thank you very much for your response Burnt.

I do understand that detox products are essentially just multi-vitamins plus water. In an effort to weight up someones diluted urine. My real question would then be, do we know of any methods to raise your creatinine content in order to dilute safely?

Also, I know there has been a LOT of success with substitution. Which is why I'm so confused as to the invalid result received when using a well respected synthetic. Hence my question of asking if anyone has had a similar situation happen when using that particular synthetic.

As a final note, The QuickFix was purchased from a well respected vendor, the vendor which spectrum labs actually recommend. It seems unlikely that this was a fake sample of the synthetic.

Regardless, thank you very much for the information Burnt.

Quote:

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My real question would then be, do we know of any methods to raise your creatinine content in order to dilute safely?

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The Dilution "sticky" thread addresses the use of creatine in order to maintain satisfactory creatinine levels. And more posts about creatine-loading and creatinine testing are found by utilizing the Search button.

My apologies for not searching more first. The information in the stickie is wonderful. Thank you for pointing me there.

I have a question for anyone who might have the answer, also I don't think it's worth starting a new thread for it. After extensive web and board searching, I haven't found anything that I think answers my question.

What sort of tests would a lab do to determine urine validity other than specific gravity, creatinine levels, and pH?

The reason I ask, is since I had a problem with using QuickFix 5.7-1, that it didn't immediately come back with a negative result, do I have a chance of them performing more extensive tests and finding out that it was substituted?

A canceled or generally invalid result due to unknown interference is WAY better than having a substituted result. Such that the former would likely grant me a retest, and the latter simply will not.

I'm not sure what more tests they could perform though, beyond smelling it, but it's the canadian version of quickfix and thereby even contains uric acid. Also after reading the DOT guidelines, it never 'limits' the maximum amount of testing that can be done, it only sets the minimum for the tests that must be performed.

With DOT-regulated tests, the labs have to abide by the regulations outlined under 49 CFR Part 40.

With that being pointed out, the labs must perform the validity tests outlined under Section 40.91 of the regulations, and must apply the criteria for a "substituted" urine sample under Section 40.93 of the regulations. Theres no minimum or maximum of what they can adhere to - they have to follow the regulations and protocols outlined.
DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.91 | Department of Transportation

and

DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.93 | Department of Transportation

As you can see, uric acid is NOT part of the validity tests being ordered to perform, nor there is no standards established for uric acid as there are for creatinine, specific gravity, pH, nitrites, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burnt Toast

With DOT-regulated tests, the labs have to abide by the regulations outlined under 49 CFR Part 40.

With that being pointed out, the labs must perform the validity tests outlined under Section 40.91 of the regulations, and must apply the criteria for a "substituted" urine sample under Section 40.93 of the regulations. Theres no minimum or maximum of what they can adhere to - they have to follow the regulations and protocols outlined.
DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.91 | Department of Transportation

and

DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.93 | Department of Transportation

As you can see, uric acid is NOT part of the validity tests being ordered to perform, nor there is no standards established for uric acid as there are for creatinine, specific gravity, pH, nitrites, etc.

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First, Burnt, you're an absolute wealth of information and I wish I had a better way to thank you. Thank you for all your help and information.

But here's a question about DOT Rule 49 CFR Part 40 Section 40.91, when it says "(d) You must perform additional validity tests on the primary specimen when the following conditions are observed:"

Given the MRO's answer to me, I have reason to believe they found a "(3) Possible unidentified interfering substance or adulterant." Do we have any idea what the additional tests may include?

All in all, I suppose this just doesn't matter, if I fail, I fail.

They'll perform the additional validity checks if any of the following are observed:

- Abnormal physical characteristics - Meaning any unusual color (blue, orange, black, purple), any unusual odor (smell of bleach, household chemicals, gasoline, etc) and/or excessive foaming when sample is shaken ( due to use of some adulterants, or if heated Mountain Dew was used as a urine sub)

- Possible unidentified interfering substance or adulterant. The QF and other synthetics dont contain any interfering substances or adulterants so that eliminates synthetics as a suspect.

And when they do perform the additional validity tests, they have to report exactly what substance/adulterant was found and its quantitative value. Vauge reports such as "some stuff was found in the urine" and or the like will not cut it. They have to be complete and most importantly, truthful in what was found; otherwise they can be held liable for medical malpractice.

Thank you so much Burnt Toast. You've put my mind at ease for the moment. I'll report my result once I get it.

As an update, I didn't get the job.
I requested a copy of my drug screen from the company but they said they don't give that out. That maybe the lab does. To the best of my knowledge though the lab doesn't give out the detailed results except to the company.

Here's a couple final notes.
The name of the lab was Lexis Nexis Business screening solutions
The synthetic I used was QuickFix 5.7-1 Batch# Canada-P6MM-13C

It is unknown if the result actually came back as synthetic. The lab claimed it was "immunoassay interference" with a final result of 'canceled'.

Man, that sucks un1bomber, but you already know that.

Did you speak to anyone at the company about getting your result (the hiring company, not the testing company)? In my view anyway, at this point, you have nothing to lose by standing your ground and saying you demand more information as to cause of failure. Tell them you haven't used so are concerned about a false positive or perhaps broken chain of command on the sample, etc. and require more detail.

I would think the worst they could do is get more detail from the lab and if they do confirm synthetic then yeah, you of course still wouldn't get the job, but... that's where you are now.

At best, maybe the lab isn't so sure what's off they just feel something is, but without definitive proof you might get a 4th test. Kinda doubtful, but if the job is worth it, might be worth a shot to press, but that is of course your call.

This is the first fail story involving Quick Fix I've heard of and it makes me nervous as hell because as I type I have a package of Quick Fix Plus 5.7-1 on my desk that I was planning on (possibly) using for a test I have this week! (not Candadian; batch P2D-13).

Alternatives I have: a buddy's "clean" urine instead (but he drinks a LOT and also is on some meds I'm not sure about, one for an enlarged prostate, some allergy stuff and also uses hair growth products)

or

My own. Been clean since 8/16 except for two puffs on 9/1 and two more on 9/7. Been drinking several glasses of water each day and taking creatine supplements in case I do have to go this route but at this point am undecided which of the above will be plan "A" and which will be plan "B"....

I used to run a drug testing clinic and am a DOT- Drug Screen collection trainer as well DOT BAT trainer ( breath alcohol) - and yes - I love me some weed!

So anyway quick run down for future :
cannibis takes up to 48 hours to actually show in your urine if you have never smoked it before- because of metabolic processes that must occur before it can be detected through current technology. If you are not a regular smoker this cannibis will then be OUT of your system within 3-5 days of smoking, there is a very short window to 'catch' a 'weekend warrior' as they are called in the MRO's office.
If you are a regular smoker then you know that it builds up in the fat cells of your body - your stats didn't look like you had alot of fat on you so that really means you are metabolizing it fairly fast. If you are losing fat you are losing THC. Rule of thumb - regular daily smoker - 30 days - however if you are dieting and losing fat much faster.
Flooding yourself with water doesn't really help that much- it does screw up creatinine levels and that is why they test it- it tells us your fluid intake over a period of time as well as the age of the urine - in case it's your dogs urine...
The best way to pass a drug screen is to get the THC out of your system- up to 49 nanograms you are considered negative and your company is supposed to get a NEGATIVE only response in that case.
When taking drug screens we have to understnad a couple of things- 1. they are against the constitution. because of that they rarely hold up in court- hint hint....most drug screens are done by companies who are told by the work comp ins. that they have to do them or pay double the premiums- so they do the drug screen program which actually costs more in the long run but no one is pointing that out because there is a shit load of money to be made here....Those companies usually don't care about the results- they just need them on file in the event of an audit- negatives get hired , positives get held in case of legal action for 3 years. Most of these companies do not know what thier drug policies are and this is where the drug screen gets cancelled by a judge as unlawful - many more get thrown out of court than stand- so never hesitate to try and fight a positive result- I have seen them reversed when everything was done correctly however a secretary at the company didn't dot the right I and bam it's cancelled!
2. DOT drug screens are different than regular drug screens- even harder to hold up in court- as usual the feds paint themselves into a corner with ridiculous regulation that can't be followed. Yes all the rules are listed in 49CFR part 40 - good luck interpreting it- I went through a month long schooling of it. IT has been faught so many times and rarely stood the test.
The rules were made specifically for the trucking industry which was making too much money so the goverment had to regulate it- it then spread around to cover any commercial transportation of goods, commodities or people. These regs only cover when the transportation is taking place in public ( not required on private properties - this is many mines get out of it) and only cover when that transportation has something to do with commercial trading. So If I have a motor home that weighs over 270000 lbs and am traveling across the country I don't fall under it UNLESS I am transporting something or someone for commercial purposes( making money).
Blah,blah,blah....
Any way the best way to pass is know how much you smoke, stop smoking, do drink water and use natural detox methods for your lymph system- this melts your fat quickly- go on a no fat diet- don't store new fat, get rid of older fat. exercise....it burns fat and know that 30 days isn't a hard fact- it depends on how much you have stored at the time of quitting- if you smoke several times a day and are overweight it could take up to 3 months - if you smoke several times a day and are very thin and have an incredible metabolism- it could be 1 week.....
Good Luck to you and remember- never hesitate to take a positve drug screen to court!