New here - New CFL Grower - Already having issues with seedlings. Please help!

Hello! I am a new grower from Colorado and I am definitely trying the cheapest route possible when it comes to materials, etc. I'm not wealthy and I'm not looking for a huge yield. I am going to go the CFL route as I've heard and seen people do it before with great results. I am mostly interested in the journey and I want to log my experiences to hopefully help others out in the future. I have tarped off a corner of my room that I will soon line the inside with white reflective panda liner and take down the foil lining as some have told me not to use that as it causes hot spots. I have provided pictures below. I currently have a cheap humidifier going and it keeps the tent at a nice temperature between 76-80 degrees Fahrenheit with 60-70% humidity. I come here for advice because I think I am having issues. The two leaves on each of the sprouts are starting to turn yellow and/or brown on the tips like they were burned or are dying or something. I have no idea what this means. More info below:

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) I am brand spankin' new.

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) I currently have four CFL 26w 1700 Lumens 4100k "Cool White" lights.
.2) Distance from tops? About 5-6 inches away.
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) Two are bare bulb and the two on the sides are closed reflectors.
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Yes.
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? No.
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? Bulb wattage is 26w, kelvin is 4100k, and schedule is 24/7.

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) I am using Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix with 20-30% perlite. Amazon.com: Miracle-Gro 72986510 Organic Choice Potting Mix Bag, 16-Quart: Patio, Lawn & Garden
.8) Size of container. Red Solo Cups.
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? No additives or nutes yet.

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap water and pH is reading 5.5-6.0
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) pH Analog Mini tester http://cdn.territorialseed.com/image...4238_large.jpg
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) Have not done anything to water yet.
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. I have Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom ready, but not using yet.
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? Watered once before dropping seeds.
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) None.
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Stable as far as I know.
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 5.5-6.0
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? N/A

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoors.
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 4x4x8 grow tent.
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Lights on is 75-80 Fahrenheit. Not sure with lights off.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) White Widow Indica Dominant.
24) From seeds or clones? Bagseed.
25) Is this an autoflower strain? Not sure exactly.

There ya go! Please don't be harsh!

Attachment 290002
Attachment 290003
Attachment 290004
Attachment 290005

is this miracle grow coming with any feed in it? im working in a shop where i deal with them in daily bases and few of my mates who are growing cannabis told me before that most of theyr stuff is lethal for small cannabis plants cos of all the feed they have it in and id check your soil PH as well cos i know one of my mates left few bags back last year cos ph level was ova de chart.
iv pretty much no knoweledge about growing miself and all i said above is what i heard people talking etc..lol
umm i dont think that this post is now useless at all.xD

ph seems a little low. soil is better between 6.2 and 7

Check out some of the diagnosis threads in here they are usually quite helpful.. I don't see that being a Ph issue but I've been wrong, my guess would if you soil has a stronger nutrient system yellowing and brown spots are usually an indication of too much nutrients or nutrient burn, 76-80 is a little on the warm side at that stage you should try to stay more around 72-76 for maximum photo... but the biggest thing is letting us know exactly what soil your using! If its NOT a seedling or light mix soil ur loading ur baby up on nutes and u need to get it out of that soil!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Indimaniac

Check out some of the diagnosis threads in here they are usually quite helpful.. I don't see that being a Ph issue but I've been wrong, my guess would if you soil has a stronger nutrient system yellowing and brown spots are usually an indication of too much nutrients or nutrient burn, 76-80 is a little on the warm side at that stage you should try to stay more around 72-76 for maximum photo... but the biggest thing is letting us know exactly what soil your using! If its NOT a seedling or light mix soil ur loading ur baby up on nutes and u need to get it out of that soil!

---

I am using Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix. There's a link to it on my first post above.

Ya bro ok see how it says feeds up to two months... that means NO SEEDLINGS OR ANYTHING YOUNGER THAN SAY 3 FULL SETS PF LEAVES!!(not yelling) u need to get them into some type of LIGHT or SEEDLING even jiffy pellets but no normal potting soils unless the say "need to start feeding immediately" on the bag soil mixes your burning ur seedlings with nutes they'll die at this age... this would be perfect to transplant into after u have 3 sets of leaves or 3 nodes but not before that point!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Indimaniac

Ya bro ok see how it says feeds up to two months... that means NO SEEDLINGS OR ANYTHING YOUNGER THAN SAY 3 FULL SETS PF LEAVES!!(not yelling) u need to get them into some type of LIGHT or SEEDLING even jiffy pellets but no normal potting soils unless the say "need to start feeding immediately" on the bag soil mixes your burning ur seedlings with nutes they'll die at this age... this would be perfect to transplant into after u have 3 sets of leaves or 3 nodes but not before that point!!

---

So do I have to start over with new seeds and better soil or can I transfer them somehow?

Ok... "if I were you" "I" would roll the cups in my hand a little as to pull the dirt loose from the sides, so that the whole chunk of dirt can come out as one clump... set them aside get a bowl atleast a couple times the size of ur potted dirt a bowl pot or pale, what ever u have access to. Now fill it up a few inches deeper than ur dirt, with the ph'ed water you've been watering with, now get new pots ready fill them with light or seedling soil and get nice and moist and ready for ur plantsto move inbefore u move on... now I've personally done this a few time and I get real attached to my plants lol so its scary for me!! But take ur cups DO NOT pick it up by the stem place ur Two or three fingers around the plant, flip it upside down and tap tap tap it until it comes out whole, now slowly submerge the whole dirt ball into the water and gently swoosh and work it around until all the dirt comes loose damaging some roots is inevitable but ur trying to keep as much intact as possible, now once you've rinsed the roots good and freed from the old dirt lift from water bowl, and place in pots you prepared before beware the plans WILL BE droopy and a lil limp(scared me the first time I thought I killed them for sure!) This is normal! Pack ur new dirt firmly around the stem you can plant it deeper than before almost up to the leaves to prop it up nicely this will also give you a higher root system, once you have it packed in nicely and the transport is done give it a good water but don't over do it and growth will resume as normal within two or three days if it stunts it at all(never has for me)

OK and what soil do you prefer or what kinds are the best? I've heard of Fox Farm Ocean Forest. What are some others?

Oh and good luck! I really hope what I said was helpful!! If you do this as I told you how before the end of tomorrow, you should be ok, I've seen plants alot worse of pull through with this method... nothing can be guaranteed but usually this will revive your plants with no problems now within a few days if the plants don't live the transplant was too late and the nutes damage was too much to handle... live n learn bit keep ur fingers crossed!!

Well I use ocean forest but again its too strong for seedlings bla bla bla but I use fox farms happy frog(soil not nutrients) and fox farms light warrior but for all intensive purposes and easy access you could go to any near by Lowes or walmart or any department store like this that has a gardening center or supply and get any soil you can find that says seedling mix, light mix, seed/cutting mix etc right on the bag your good to get u through this time until your ready for nutes then I'd transplant them into ocean forest or what u use now...

Thanks for your help Indimaniac! Anyone else have anything to chime in?

That soil doesn't look good. Big chunks of bark in it. Geez. Can't they make a better product?

Lol ya that's exactly what I was thinking!

OK, so I just went to the store and got some new soil: NK Lawn and Garden Organic Starter Mix. The only ingredients are Sphagnum peat moss, horticultural vermiculite, perlite and an organic wetting agent. It doesn't mention anything about fertilizers or nutrients.

I then transferred them like you told me to as carefully as I could...

Attachment 290017

I also got some Jiffy cubes to try on future grows!

Attachment 290018

I do hope everything turns out OK now! :)

Everything seems fine today. No drooping of the plants or anything!

That's awesome!! I'm glad it worked out for ya! Keep us up on ur progress!:thumbsup:

I don't know if I am just paranoid, but I have noticed the new leaves coming in were pointing upwards. I've tried to do research before I posted this time, but I found a lot of mixed results. I have found some people saying they are "reaching for light" so bring your light closer, others say it is an Nitrogen deficiency, others say that they don't have enough water so they go into that "mode" where their leaves turn up and they somehow ration the water they have available by doing that, some say that they are too hot and "perspiring" by putting their leaves up, and others say it's because they have been watered too much lol I don't know which it is! I would like to hear from you guys. There is also some yellowing present, but I think it is the leaves getting over the old soil. The new leaves popping in are green for the most part. Let me know what you think. Dammit I just want to grow healthy plants! I might have to suck it up and spend a bit of money after all...

Things I have already checked/done:

1. Finger 2-3 inches down into soil check? A little dry to be honest.
2. pH check? 5.8ish was the last I checked when I had runoff.
3. Temperature/Humidity? 76°-81°F / 50-60%
4. Airflow? I have a small 5" fan I added last night to get the bulbs closer and keep them cool. It is constantly providing a very slight breeze.

Attachment 290102
Attachment 290103
Attachment 290104

Fan on seedlings won't really do you much good aside from increase the strength of the stalk. Make sure your cups have holes in the bottom for drainage, and hit each cup with 1/3 of a cup of water every 2-3 days as needed. If your soil looks that dry on top, its too dry, but it shouldn't look muddy

So far, so good. The yellowing is remnants of the nute burn, right now they're just dry. I can't show you a pic of my seedlings right now (entire grow is under renovations) but it' about 1" above my seedlings/clones

Everything else your doing is fine

I have to disagree with low_rdr, sorry pilgrim, but I think what's going on here is low nitrogen. The first structures, the cots, are yellow along with the first leaves yellow and what is needed here is a small shot of nitrogen. I think your ingoing water pH is a little low. If that's out of the tap, I'd be surprised. Anyway, get some distilled water from the store and you can use inexpensive fert like Schultz brand you can get pretty much anywhere that fert is sold. It's strange because MG is known for putting out hot fert soils, but I guess their organic soil isn't so hot. Just a few drops of the Schultz 10-15-10 in a gallon of distilled water will make the difference. I don't think it's fert burn because there is a lot of yellowing like the nitrogen is too low. So give some fert. If you want a better fert, go to a hydro shop and get something like dynagro 7-9-5. Just follow the directions on the bottle. Keep us posted here on how things go. don't water/fert too much, just enough to keep the soil wet for now.

I didn't read the entire thread, but do yourself a favor.. dump the miracle grow. I'd recommend getting some brand of soilless mix that already has perlite and such in it. Sunshine Mix #4, ProEarth, etc.. This is neutral with no nutrients in it. Once you have this, repot your seedlings.. just be gentle in the process. One of the big advantages to soilless mix is you can basically rinse it out during the grow keeping things nice. For pH, run it around 6.0 in veg and take it down to 5.5 once you go into flower. You are right on nutrients for now.. not needed until the seedling is 3-4 weeks and has at least 2 sets of good leaves. Once you do start adding nutrients, try to mix them much weaker than recommended on the bottles. If you can get a meter to measure pH and ppm, do. For ppm's I go with a range of 200 ppm (in early veg) to a max of about 550 ppm in flower. This is much weaker than other folks, but hey it works. Anyway, good luck! Farmer Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polishpollack

I have to disagree with low_rdr, sorry pilgrim, but I think what's going on here is low nitrogen. The first structures, the cots, are yellow along with the first leaves yellow and what is needed here is a small shot of nitrogen. I think your ingoing water pH is a little low. If that's out of the tap, I'd be surprised. Anyway, get some distilled water from the store and you can use inexpensive fert like Schultz brand you can get pretty much anywhere that fert is sold. It's strange because MG is known for putting out hot fert soils, but I guess their organic soil isn't so hot. Just a few drops of the Schultz 10-15-10 in a gallon of distilled water will make the difference. I don't think it's fert burn because there is a lot of yellowing like the nitrogen is too low. So give some fert. If you want a better fert, go to a hydro shop and get something like dynagro 7-9-5. Just follow the directions on the bottle. Keep us posted here on how things go. don't water/fert too much, just enough to keep the soil wet for now.

---

I have FF Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom. Would a little bit of either of those work?


Those pics were from this morning. Here's an update today when I came home....

Plant #1 (in order from top to bottom above)
This one is my healthiest one, I think. The leaves aren't curling, the burns on the tips are starting to subside a bit and it is still looking green. New leaves coming in strong.
Attachment 290105

Plant #2
This one looks OK. The new leaves coming in are shooting upward and are growing in length, but not width like Plant #1. The old leaves also still showing the effects of the MG nute burn, but are they getting yellower? I think they are a bit...
Attachment 290106

Plant #3
This one doesn't look so good. It is growing sideways and kind of flopping to the side. This one is showing the effects of nute burn really bad. However, the new leaves that are coming in are green, but they are twisted and growing crooked, too. I'm not sure what to do with this guy. :confused:
Attachment 290107 Attachment 290108 Attachment 290109

Help appreciated as always!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farmer Rich

I didn't read the entire thread, but do yourself a favor.. dump the miracle grow. I'd recommend getting some brand of soilless mix that already has perlite and such in it. Sunshine Mix #4, ProEarth, etc.. This is neutral with no nutrients in it. Once you have this, repot your seedlings.. just be gentle in the process. One of the big advantages to soilless mix is you can basically rinse it out during the grow keeping things nice. For pH, run it around 6.0 in veg and take it down to 5.5 once you go into flower. You are right on nutrients for now.. not needed until the seedling is 3-4 weeks and has at least 2 sets of good leaves. Once you do start adding nutrients, try to mix them much weaker than recommended on the bottles. If you can get a meter to measure pH and ppm, do. For ppm's I go with a range of 200 ppm (in early veg) to a max of about 550 ppm in flower. This is much weaker than other folks, but hey it works. Anyway, good luck! Farmer Rich

---

Yeah I did a transfer a couple of posts ago. Check it out!

Good that you repotted. Regarding your question above for nutes.. I wouldn't at this point.. just water, but don't over do it. The strong will recover and survive.. Knowing your new to this, start thinking in weeks instead of hours or days. They will take a little while to recover. Since these are so new, as a safety plan, you may want to pop a couple of more seeds.

Im gonna agree with farmer sorry I haven't responded I think your seeing old issues farmer saying think in weeks is a good plan its not gonna heal over night the unhealthy ones damage might have been worse than you originally thought sometimes they will continue to worsen even after conditions are fixed up to acceptable and only time will show you if its gonna turn it around but on the same note being new your gonna have problems and alot of work will be needed on problem diagnosis even for all the wizards out there!! So you don't wanna assume its an old problem and let it go until you find out it was a new problem n ur plants dead!! I think your perfect its good to be a little paranoid, a little extra tlc will only help teach you jist as long as you don't love it to death, I'd keep watching the sick one for new problems spots marks etc stick with regular watering letting your soil dry 1/3 of the depth of the pot between waterings and see how they look in a few more days.. and in soil 5.8 is low you wanna be around 6.5 and your water for watering should be no more than a few points off from your run off as to not shock the plants...

And o gee!! Thanks everyone this guys getting pummeled with help!! And I can't ever even get a single response on my problems!!!?? Come on people I'm having my own issues with can someone help me out too!!???

Here's where I am right now:

I went and bought FFoF and FF Light Warrior. I transplanted plant #1 and plant #2 into the new light warrior soil and added a bit more perlite for "fluffiness" and breathability. I also transplanted the new seedlings I had popping through into the light warrior. I also have 2 more germs that I started yesterday, which are also in light warrior. Therefore, I have a total of six plants going right now. As for the sick-looking plant #3, I ended its life yesterday. Sad story.....Anyway moving on. The first two plants I started are still showing better signs. The first leaves still show the nute burn from the older soil and possibly stress as these have gone through a lot. The one thing I did notice is that the new leaves coming in are growing in green and looking good, so I am not giving up on them. I have them both planted to the leaves so if new roots want to grow, they can do so. The two new seedlings are looking nice and green and I have not seen the other two yet, but let's hope that those two are going to grow strong and fast now that I have them in the proper soil.

Attachment 290228 Attachment 290229 Attachment 290230 Attachment 290231

Looks like they're coming back, good job! Give them some time now.. just as you think it's going slow, they seem to kick in.

Farmer Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Indimaniac

And o gee!! Thanks everyone this guys getting pummeled with help!! And I can't ever even get a single response on my problems!!!?? Come on people I'm having my own issues with can someone help me out too!!???

---

Did you ever get the help you were looking for?

Farmer Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farmer Rich

Did you ever get the help you were looking for?

Farmer Rich

---

No... check out my thread, new problem, could use a hand.. and excuse my excessive typing I'm just thorough lol I'm thinking its a Ph problem causing all my issues but check it out!!

Regarding pH, actually soilless mix (assuming that's what your using) is really more like hydro. I run about 6.0 in early veg, 5.6 in flower..

No no I run fox farms soil... and I'm talking a Ph progressing to 4.0 or less everytime with well water that's at 6.5 even after sitting... Ph drops so its not out of calibration Ph meter..

Well, I'd say they appear to be liking the new soil and thriving in it very well. The only one that still looks a little sickly is the one in the back middle. The other ones, especially the one on the bottom right, are showing all green leaves and healthy-looking, too! I do have one problem. My soil gets dry in 3-4 days. Can I continue to water seedlings lightly or heavily? I have read in different places to let the soil dry out to let the roots grow longer and I have heard of people watering their seedlings every 2-3 days with a bit of run-off and no issue. What are your thoughts?

Attachment 290282

Well, I started over, changed my whole setup around, added some quality CFL lights (6400k, 10500 lumens), bigger pots, got FFoF and FFLW and the entire line of nutes and voila!

Attachment 290667