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Hello... We're growing indoors in soil. Take a look at these photos. Does it look like a magnesium &/or calcium deficiency? The plants just started their 6th week in flower. We fertilize every other watering & pH is always around the mid 6's. PPM in our water is around 60. Day temp in the room is around 75. Thanks for your help.
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Gee, there have been 248 views of my post, yet not one reply.:( Is there a reason for that? Help me out here fellas. Thanks.
there is indeed a reason, actually several. the main one is a little more info is required. try this link it should help you get more replies. http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ing-forms.html
the other is if you look there are between 1000 and 2000+ people on this site at any one time but out of them 5 or 6 may actually be members that can or will post. once you get the form filled out it will make things easier to pin down what may be going on.
pics are good but just about everything makes them yellow and curl and dry out one way or another.
you spraying anything on them?
Exactly. Unregistered individuals (aka Guests) can view posts and drive up the view tally as well as the registered members. The guests just cannot post replies or start new threads until they register and become members. Just exhibit some patience. A registered member will eventually come along to offer the help that youre seeking if s/he has any to offer.Quote:
there is indeed a reason, actually several. the main one is a little more info is required. try this link it should help you get more replies. CanCom 'Copy-n-Paste' Troubleshooting Forms
the other is if you look there are between 1000 and 2000+ people on this site at any one time but out of them 5 or 6 may actually be members that can or will post.
No, we are not spraying. Never have. We're growing Jack Flash & average 3 ozs dry. But we always get this situation & not sure what to do about it. Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal420xl
Magnesium deficiency. Could be another micro nute as well, but that golden yellow spotting very much looks like mg def. Epsom salt, say about 1/2 tsp per gallon or water might do the trick, but since you've had this problem for a while, I might go with just a little more salt, say 3/4 to full tsp in gallon of water, water with that only for now, and see what happens, repairs will take place within two days. yellow spotting should disappear, but dead brown leaves will not recover. Feel free to pull the off. a better thing to do is go a hydro shop and get botanicare's calmag and follow the directions on the back for dose rate. Don't give to much or too frequently, as too much won't help, but enough will. I'm wondering if you also have a calcium def there, so calmag should help as it has both. Before you go to the store however, take a look at your fert container ingredients and see if calcium and magnesium are present. If they are, then I'm baffled as to your problem. It could be that you're giving too much of NPK without some micro nutes. I know I seem like a Dynagro salesman in these forums, BUT..... I have to advocate the use of their ferts because you only need one bottle for veg and one for flowering, if you want to buy it. The Dynagro ferts have pretty much all the nutes plants needs, to include things like boron, sulphur, zinc, and yes, calcium and magnesium. Sometimes I think I come across like a jerk but it really does pay to do some homework. For now, try some epsom salt in water and see what happens in a couple of days. You can get it at a pharmacy and it's a cheap fix rather than buying a different fert. Also, in the future please take photos in white light so we can better see color.
I don't know. But I have four Neville's Haze x Afghani running that are all like that. They burned up like that early on in flower but the other two strains are just fine. This same strain did that last time I ran them. I tried flushing but once that burn happens there isn't much going back. The plants continue to grow ever so slowly, they are just starting week 10 bloom cycle. They have an awesome aroma though. But none of the strains are ripe yet.
So I think they are sensitive to some nutrient, not a deficiency, imo. They were fed cal-mag plus with 100% organic compost teas and nutes. The other two strains (fourteen plants) showed no overfeeding. This is my last four seeds so the question will go unanswered, for my strain.
It's a little confusing because some of the damage is so bad. The golden yellow spotting is typically mag def. If there is no magnesium in the fert or soil, then that could be it. That's my best guess without knowing what in the ferts. This is why you want to answer the questions, to provide more details.
Shovel, I don't think a plant can be sensitive to a nutrient while not showing any sign of overfeeding. I guess you're referring to genetics, one type being more sensitive, but just be sure that it is nutrient burning that's happening. That's the hard part because plants will yellow, brown, develop spots, and die and unless you know what can cause each one and the pattern they appear in, it can be impossible to know exactly what's wrong. It's not just the leaf appearance to examine but a grower needs to know what happened first... did the leaf tissue turn yellow, then brown, or just go straight brown. Did the color change first take place at the leaf tip or more into the leaf itself? Did the color change first develop at the lower leaves or in the middle of the plant or at the top? Answers to these questions can help pinpoint what the problem is.
crispy burned, yellow and brown leaves can certainly be a sign of overfeeding. What to you consists of signs of overfeeding?
Not all brown leaves are "burned by chemistry." The leaves in the photos have magnesium deficiency. Advanced stage of leaf tissue death will always look brown and crispy, but determining the cause is the issue.
Happyretiree, let us know how things worked out.
Sorry, but I've been away & that's why you haven't back from me. I filled out the form & included a spreadsheet of my feeding formula, but it won't format correctly in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by polishpollack
What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) EXPERIENCED NOVICE â?? BEEN GROWING FOR SEVERAL YEARS
What type of hydro set-up are you running? NONE - SOIL
Your Equipment:
A) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) HPS
B) Distance from tops? 2 FEET
C) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) ENCLOSED REFLECTOR
D) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 1000 WATTS, 12 ON, 12 OFF
E) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? YES
F) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? YES
G) Size of reservoir?
H) What medium if applicable. OCEAN HARVEST SOIL
Your nutrients and water:
I) If using rockwoll for clones or seedlings, did you rinse the cubes well, with properly ph'd water? WE DONâ??T RINSE, PH IS AROUND 6.5, WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH CUTTINGS
J) Source of water. (tap or filtered) What's it's ph? TAP, UNFILTERED, 6.3-6.8
K) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
FOXFARM TIGERBLOOM 2-8-4
FOXFARM BIG BLOOM 1-3-7
OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
CHA CHING 9-50-10
All feeding done to manufacturers' specifications.
L) What is the ec/ppm of your unadjusted tap (or filtered) water? Under 100
M) What is the ec/ppm of your nutrient solution?
N) What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? (reservoir high and low temps)
O) Does your ec/ppm show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? We donâ??t check daily.
P) Does the ph fluctuate? NO
Q) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you
spray? (Just after lights come on, just before they go out...) WE DO NOT FOLIAR FEED.
R) How often do you replace reservoir water/nutes? What does it look like before changes? (clear, foamy, green, brown...)
Your growroom:
S) What size of closet, room or hut? ROOM IS 12FT X 15FT. WE HAVE 3 1000 WATT LIGHTS WITH REFLECTOR screens TO CREATE 4 WALLS THAT CONTAIN THE GARDEN WITH THE SPACE OF THE LIGHTS.
T) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? MID 70 DEGREES 35-45% HUMIDITY ...With lights off? LOW 70â??S â?? I DONâ??T KNOW THE HUMIDITY WITH LIGHTS OFF.
U) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? NONE
V) Are the roots long and white, or brown and slimy? LONG & WHITE
Your strain:
W) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) JACK FLASH SATIVA DOMINATE
X) From seeds or clones? ORIGINALLY FROM SEED, NOW FROM CLONES
Y) Is this an autoflower strain? I DONâ??T KNOW
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Here are some more photos. I know the color isn't great even though I took the pics in good light with a flash. The coloring is the same as in my original pictures.
Good color on this. Week 3 of Flowering Jack Flash.Attachment 290335
Different plant, same problem.
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I wish I knew, Retiree.
As I posted, I've had a similar problem and I have a similar grow to yours, good products, proper feeding, lighting temp and pH. One strain hated it and the other strains loved it. I know that a lockout from too much something can look like not enough something. We'll both be happy when we solve this dilemma.
Evidently, the FoxFarm nute schedule is too strong. This type of "burn" happens in every one of my Jack Flash crops. Unusually, it occurs much later in the Flowering cycle as opposed to this time when it started in the 2nd week. The "schedule" was not created for cannabis plants & being that not all plants are created equal, it's entirely possible it's overkill - no pun intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shovelhandle
I'm going to straight water the next 2 times, then go 1/2 strength on FoxFarm. If anyone has a better way of handling this, I'm all ears.
Crap, I think I was wrong. I took the spotting to be mag deficiency because that's usually how it appears, but this is why you want to take photos in white light, not sodium. I thought the spotting was a golden color but that was made by the sodium light. It actually appears to be a brown color. I didn't realize last time that you're giving so much phosphorus. That is your problem. Any reason why you are giving so much? that's a LOT of P. Chances are, all you really need is the Tigerbloom. Make sure that it has micronutes, like mag, calcium, sulphur, boron, etc., or you'll have to supplement. It's hard to supplement without giving more fert since most of the micro fert products contain at least some of the macro nutes. One more reason why I advocate Dynagro, because it's pretty simple, has everything you need, and you have to go out of your way to screw it up. The Foxfarm schedule doesn't take into account the adding of more ferts. Just water and let the soil dry out before you water again. Maybe it isn't too late.
Good to hear from you. Why so much P? Just following the FF schedule of feeding, but I am adding Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz & Cha Ching. Tiger Bloom has 8% & Big Bloom has .3% & Grow Big has 4%. Tiger Bloom has Mag, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese & Zinc. All trace amounts.
I'm into week 3 of Flowering now. Unfortunately, I already watered with nutes today - 2 tsp Grow Big 6-4-4, 2 tsp Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 & 1 Tbl Big Bloom .01-.3-.7, 1/4 tsp Beastie Bloomz 50% P, 30% Potash, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Zinc. Do I need to take the plants outside & flush? Or just wait till next watering & use no nutes. I have 16 plants & don't want to lose them so I'll do whatever it takes.
Without seeing them for myself and only knowing what you show here, I'm going to say take them outside and flush. Then let the soil dry out some. People water too much with indoor grows. The roots need oxygen and the only way that will happen is if the soil is allowed to dry out some before water again. You shouldn't need to add all the other stuff. Ideally, you only use one of those products like cha ching, and only use it once or twice in a soil grow, early in flowering. I'm wondering about calcium and magnesium. You don't write those in the fert contents. I'm guessing that there might be some of these in your soil, but you might consider getting some cal-mag by Botainicare. Just following any directions on the back. These extra products may not be necessary and just get people to spend more money. You've got to be careful how much you give cuz you're really just killing plants with kindness, i.e., spending too much money! So flush, let dry for a while, no more adding ferts as it looks like phosphorus toxicity (too much P), use only tiger bloom for a while unless there are nutes missing and you need some Grow to include them. It might be smart to contact foxfarm and ask them what to use for flowering, just don't be specific what you are growing (I'm sure they'll understand), I'd avoid giving ferts for a while and see what happens, meaning they might just finish fine as they are, after flushing. When you flush, just add enough water until water runs out for about 15 seconds, not too long, but enough to wash out some salts. It'll be interesting to see how this works out so please do me a favor and come back and report progress, good or bad. We all could learn from stuff like this. This is a good reason why we want to practice getting things right from the beginning because guess-work will kill a plant.
If you want to take out the guess work, Happy Frog soil might be a good one to go with. Or a box of foxfarm's powder fert called fruit and flower, which you add 1/2 cup of fert for every gallon of soil and mix well, put your plants in that. Or if you want to get a little fancy and spend a few bucks, you can get a method that should be great and all you do is add water. Policy Read the text, then click on continue to see the page for the soil pages. I think what you do is get sunshine mix number 2, and divide the mix in half, mixing one half with the top fert mix and the other half with bottom fert mix as the top and bottom ferts are of different strengths. keep the halves separate and know which one is which because the bottom mix should only go in the bottom of a grow pot, top goes on top. Don't add anything else unless you absolutely have to. preferably use distilled water, letting the soil dry some between waterings. They will ship the fert mix to you. Hard part is finding sunshine mix 2. Promix will probably be alright. You can call and ask about any soil substitutes that will work. Make sure you're clear on the instructions.
Really appreciate your response. It's 11pm here, & I'm leaving early a.m. for a hospital morning. So! If it's a matter of "life & death" to the plant, I can't flush till Thursday. I'll do it tonight if warranted.
I'll respond to the rest of your post shortly.
PP (polishpollack) - are you still there? It's 11:30pm here so I'll be calling it a night. I'll look forward to future posts.
Just avoid using those extra products with high phosphorus, it's too much. Let us know how things work out. Giving a bunch of fert because you can isn't a great idea. A grower needs to know what they're doing.
Will do! We also have a bottle of the Dynabloom that you talk about. We're going to use that with our new crop of White Widow & see how that goes. Thank you for all your input. I'll keep you abreast of our progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by polishpollack
The dynabloom should pretty much be all you need, but only for the bloom cycle. If you look at the contents, you'll see it has a bunch of the micronutes in there as well. Make sure you follow the directions on how much to use, so it pays to read the label. There's a difference between soil and hydroponic grows for this brand, in how much you use per gallon of water. Remember that the bloom version is for bloom only, as the higher phosphorus is designed to provide flowering and budding what it needs. Maybe try a grow fert until you switch to 12/12 lighting, the use the bloom. Your plants may not need to be given fert with each watering. If leaves look pale green and yellowing, they probably need a little nitrogen. If leaf tips are turning brown without going yellow first, that's probably too much nitrogen. After a while, and some reading, you begin to learn that specific problems have specific signs at certain times in a grow. It's just like being a doctor in that you diagnose the problem based on what you know and see. By the way, you've sure spent some payola on ferts. No offense, but it's a lesson learned - it just ain't necessary. Maybe grow some tomatoes to get your money's worth, eh?
Is there any improvement?
Thanks for asking. No improvement yet. Of the 16 plants we have, I picked off a big handful of bad leaves today. But remember, we didn't flush - in fact we gave the FF nutes 1 more time (before you responded) & watered plain once since then. They're due for another watering tomorrow which I plan to be straight water.Quote:
Originally Posted by polishpollack
Watering tomorrow might be a good idea, but remember that's it's best to let the soil dry out some before you water again. Since you have a lot of P in the soil, another watering is probably good.
How are things looking so far?
Were you able to flush? One issue I had on my last grow was a P deficiency. As opposed to changing the mix, mine was a result of the pH being too high for soilless mix. Where I used to run around 6.0, I started taking it to 5.7 (and even a little lower) on both my water and nutrients, which ended up fixing the problem. Since you're growing in real dirt, you pH would likely be a bit higher, but something you may want to consider.
Farmer Rich
Thanks for the thought. Ph is around 6.4 which I understand is correct for soil. Ph of soil before planting is 6.4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Rich
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No improvement on these girls. There is more yellowing though. 4 days after the flush, I feed with 1.5 tsp Tiger Bloom, 2 tsp Big Bloom & 1/4 tsp CalMag. Today I gave plain water. What's going on? They are now in their 5th week of Flowering. Maybe the problem stems from over fertilizing in the Veg stage. I'm starting to think that Fox Farm's nutrient program is for tomatoes, not cannabis. :-)
Early on, too much phosphorus was given, but I'm wondering about calcium. Have you been using the calmag all along, or was this recent dose the only one you've given? The leaf death is complex with green, yellow, and brown colors in a fairly random pattern. Usually this indicates misusing fertilizer. The only way to know for sure would be to have the leaves analyzed but I don't think that's a good idea.
This is definitely a huge deficiency probably cal mag...you also state your ppm is 60 what's the ppm after you add your nutes? It should be 860 ... and I have gone as high as 1000 total ppm for the nutes you added and 60 that was in your water when you started...I personal fert every watering in bloom...until 2 weeks prior to harvest then nothing but a flush w/waterQuote:
Originally Posted by Happy Retiree
If you are familiar with the FF Veg & Flower schedule, then you would know if it was too much phosphorus. If you don't, then I would be happy to write it out. The CalMag was given twice. I water with Molasses one time. I watered with SuperThrive one time.Quote:
Originally Posted by polishpollack
I don't measure the ppm - only the Ph. It is usually around 6.4. Water straight from the faucet which is from our well is always around 6.4. The FF schedule calls for nutes every OTHER watering in Flower. Yes, 2 wks prior to harvest I only use straight water.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbud hoop
Weren't you also using
OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
CHA CHING 9-50-10
The middle number is all phosphorus. I think it was too much. Maybe just use the dynabloom for veg perhaps next time. It looks like it could be deficiency, but it's hard to tell exactly because I haven't seen so much P fert given all at once. And yes, there could be some missing nute like calcium, but unless the leaves and soil are taken to a lab and analyzed it is impossible to know what happened. Most people go easier on ferts and this is why I suggest people use happy frog or other soil that has fert in it. I swear, I'm going to start making my own potting soil with fert mix and sell it cuz it would make life so much easier. Anyone up for that? If I make a mix and package it, would this interest anyone out there?
I used those solubles in the last crop - Let's call it Crop 1. This is a newer crop - Crop 2. I didn't use any of the Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz & ChaChing, just Grow Big, Tiger Boom & Big Bloom in Veg or Flower. In Flower, I followed the FF schedule except I added CalMag 2x & Molasses 1x. Every other watering was plain water. BUT, from the 1st week in Flower the plants started showing signs which leads me to believe that the FF schedule for Veg is too strong. At the end of the 4th week in Flower, I flushed till the runoff was up to 6.0-6.2. It had gone down to 4.8+. You know I use the FF Ocean soil, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by polishpollack
I just started another crop (Crop 3) & for veg this time, I cut way back (30%) on the FF schedule but added 3 ml of SuperThrive. I added these nutes every other watering & they are super beautiful plants. Today we put them into Flower - White Widow & Jack Flash.