Tips for tuning an ultrasonic atomizer type cloner

The build is a typical Rubbermaid bin type setup with a clear dome. I've been adjusting and tweaking since not last Thursday but the one before. my first clones where done in the jiffy tray kit. They turned out good but I thought it took to long to get roots showing. (maybe that was just me) I have tried the standard garden center variate rooting gel and the powder in this new setup. I thought the powder worked better despite what my hydro store guy said. But now I think it was just to damp on the stem. I turned it down to its lowest setting and they started looking happier with that. I keep reading and reading but cant seem to find a consistent guide to fallow. I know every system is different and climates, lighting set ups etc. I'm a bit of a control freak and have everything set up to be fairly consistent in general.

For starters I got instant wilt and most of them turned a dark dark green. I attributed that to to much moisture up top. so started leaving the top part at about 60% humidity. Apparently I was wrong because after a few days i left the top side humidity at or above 90% and a few of them stud up. I'm using 2 23w 6500K cfl's @ 20-24" above. I was using dbl 48" t-12 grow lux bulbs at about the same distance. I changed the set up to consolidate on space. My main concern is that I really really really need to take clones asap. I'm behind already. I put the recommended does of DNF root.... um.. something (I'll get that info in tomorrow) in the water. But that was just last Thursday. I was keeping the water temp down between 70 & 74 now I'm keeping it around 80. Less oxygen saturation this way but seems to be what I've read. i put several drops of hydrogen peroxide in every other day or so to compensate for the temperature. I think its 3% or something. I'll confirm that tomorrow also (its only the regular strength stuff not the 27 or 30 % stuff) . I PH the water to 5.7 after nutrients.

Main thing is I need to dial this in asap to at least 75% success rate. Which it may not be to far off if I don't count the first batch I tortured. If its not to terrible to take clones in the first week or two of flower then that really relieves some pressure.

I'm rambling and loosing focus cause its 3:30am. I'll continue tomorrow.

One last comment before shut eye. I see these videos and picks of people cloning and it all looks so easy. I grew up gardening have experience with cloning, grafting, air layering and and so on. But I haven't done any of that for 20 years. (I was a young teen helping out). This one momma has really tight node spacing and three small leaves per set. Shes about a year old the guy said. And grows all twisty and weird. I pruned her up a bit to help her out. Although he new growth is a healthier green with much larger leaves and node spacing, a bit straighter too shes been per-flowering since I got her I'm pretty sure. Even had some crystals on the leaves and got smelly. But that's subsided now for the last 3 weeks or so.

Anyways the point to that was is genetics and strain a big factor to how picky they are toward cloning?
The fact that I'm having to clean off so many nodes to get something long enough to work with. seems like that could be a big deal, what do you think?

okay I'll fill in more info tomorrow and I'll likely make more sense too. ( no promises) .gotta sleep.

Please post piks. I am legally blind, and reading the small book you posted is tedious. I am very interested and looked over what you posted, best I could.

I like to clone inn 1.5" rockwool cubes. I also like the Schultz rooting powder better than all the commercial rooting gels, etc...Dip'em and Stcik'em.

If you want to use a dome that is best way to keep up humidity;

If you do not want to use a dome you need no wilt or anti wilt...Can't remember which name is correct. I have built aero cloners that worked great, bur the up keep on water levels and temps in rez got me back to basically powdering and sticking cuttings into rockwool cubes. Super easy

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Originally Posted by bitemybud

Please post piks. I am legally blind, and reading the small book you posted is tedious. I am very interested and looked over what you posted, best I could.

I like to clone inn 1.5" rockwool cubes. I also like the Schultz rooting powder better than all the commercial rooting gels, etc...Dip'em and Stcik'em.

If you want to use a dome that is best way to keep up humidity;

If you do not want to use a dome you need no wilt or anti wilt...Can't remember which name is correct. I have built aero cloners that worked great, bur the up keep on water levels and temps in rez got me back to basically powdering and sticking cuttings into rockwool cubes. Super easy

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Thanks for your input. I'm going to re post it in a bigger font. I just read your post and then looked at mine. It is small even for me.

Here is the repeat but bigger font.

The build is a typical Rubbermaid bin type setup with a clear dome. I've been adjusting and tweaking since not last Thursday but the one before. my first clones where done in the jiffy tray kit. They turned out good but I thought it took to long to get roots showing. (maybe that was just me) I have tried the standard garden center variate rooting gel and the powder in this new setup. I thought the powder worked better despite what my hydro store guy said. But now I think it was just to damp on the stem. I turned it down to its lowest setting and they started looking happier with that. I keep reading and reading but cant seem to find a consistent guide to fallow. I know every system is different and climates, lighting set ups etc. I'm a bit of a control freak and have everything set up to be fairly consistent in general.

For starters I got instant wilt and most of them turned a dark dark green. I attributed that to to much moisture up top. so started leaving the top part at about 60% humidity. Apparently I was wrong because after a few days i left the top side humidity at or above 90% and a few of them stud up. I'm using 2 23w 6500K cfl's @ 20-24" above. I was using dbl 48" t-12 grow lux bulbs at about the same distance. I changed the set up to consolidate on space. My main concern is that I really really really need to take clones asap. I'm behind already. I put the recommended does of DNF root.... um.. something (I'll get that info in tomorrow) in the water. But that was just last Thursday. I was keeping the water temp down between 70 & 74 now I'm keeping it around 80. Less oxygen saturation this way but seems to be what I've read. i put several drops of hydrogen peroxide in every other day or so to compensate for the temperature. I think its 3% or something. I'll confirm that tomorrow also (its only the regular strength stuff not the 27 or 30 % stuff) . I PH the water to 5.7 after nutrients.

Main thing is I need to dial this in asap to at least 75% success rate. Which it may not be to far off if I don't count the first batch I tortured. If its not to terrible to take clones in the first week or two of flower then that really relieves some pressure.

I'm rambling and loosing focus cause its 3:30am. I'll continue tomorrow.

One last comment before shut eye. I see these videos and picks of people cloning and it all looks so easy. I grew up gardening have experience with cloning, grafting, air layering and and so on. But I haven't done any of that for 20 years. (I was a young teen helping out). This one momma has really tight node spacing and three small leaves per set. Shes about a year old the guy said. And grows all twisty and weird. I pruned her up a bit to help her out. Although he new growth is a healthier green with much larger leaves and node spacing, a bit straighter too shes been per-flowering since I got her I'm pretty sure. Even had some crystals on the leaves and got smelly. But that's subsided now for the last 3 weeks or so.

Anyways the point to that was is genetics and strain a big factor to how picky they are toward cloning?
The fact that I'm having to clean off so many nodes to get something long enough to work with. seems like that could be a big deal, what do you think?

okay I'll fill in more info tomorrow and I'll likely make more sense too. ( no promises) .gotta sleep.

Where you able to get roots any quicker root growth with the machine over the rock wool? My hydro shop guy said the same thing about the rock wool. That its stable and works every time. (even if the power goes out) lol. but really not funny. Only he uses the roots brand gel. I think it was literally all he carried. I'll be getting more info up about my set up today.

I'm stressing over posting pictures. I'm stressed in general about even having an account here. I'm in Canada and the law is really dam harsh. can anyone educate me on this or these types of sights? what the risks?

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Originally Posted by JoeBlow78

Where you able to get roots any quicker root growth with the machine over the rock wool? My hydro shop guy said the same thing about the rock wool. That its stable and works every time. (even if the power goes out) lol. but really not funny. Only he uses the roots brand gel. I think it was literally all he carried. I'll be getting more info up about my set up today.

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Good cuttings properly taken care of, root just as fast regardless of what you place them in. I would give you links to visual threads I have done, but that might be a banable offense here.

Most important if using cubes, keep them in a warm place. Cuttings like to root in a warner environment. In fact I have a hydro farm seedling mat to keep everything warm around propagation trays. I have cloned in a bubbler, an aero unit, rapic rooters, rockwool, and probably am forgetting some way else...Oh Yeah; I have taken cuttings and put them straight into a pot filled with potting mix. All worked.

I see you posted another long post...Funny LOL; It is smaller font than the others.

As for security; I see folks from Canada always posting, but I would not advize anyone to post pictures if they are paranoid. Talking about it, and showing piks are 2 different things. It is up to you. I no longer post piks of grows due to the fact I am a certified grower commercially for a couple big market chains, and cannot afford to lose my standing in the legit world of produce.

Thanks. I was getting carried away and way way over analyzing everything. I have since figured out a bunch and am doing much better. The rock wool propagation setup is much simpler and seems to be idiot proof so far. Whats a good temperature to keep the bottom of the tray at?

Up to 90, no lower than 77 - My clone box is 100 at the base, and the air is a little under 80, 100% success not counting the two I've inadvertently killed (dome was too small on one, so it rotted from the outside in, and the other one got too much air)

I've got a clone in the box after 2 weeks in flower, and its going well, still strong (been a week) So she'll survive. The warmer the bottom is, the more and faster roots will grow and expand, I know your using a hydro system, but for those using soil, this stands true as well, but please remember, the hotter your seedling medium, the faster it will dry out, I water my cuttlings and seedlings 4x per day (just a few drops, just keep it moist). I've seen bases as high as 120 in hydro, mine is the hottest in soil I've ever seen, but it works for me

:thumbsup: Keep it up Joe!

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Originally Posted by low_rdr

Up to 90, no lower than 77 - My clone box is 100 at the base, and the air is a little under 80, 100% success not counting the two I've inadvertently killed (dome was too small on one, so it rotted from the outside in, and the other one got too much air)

I've got a clone in the box after 2 weeks in flower, and its going well, still strong (been a week) So she'll survive. The warmer the bottom is, the more and faster roots will grow and expand, I know your using a hydro system, but for those using soil, this stands true as well, but please remember, the hotter your seedling medium, the faster it will dry out, I water my cuttlings and seedlings 4x per day (just a few drops, just keep it moist). I've seen bases as high as 120 in hydro, mine is the hottest in soil I've ever seen, but it works for me

:thumbsup: Keep it up Joe!

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I agree. 80-90 for all propagation, making sure you keep the humidity up as well. Again to make sure your babies are warm enough; I still recommend getting a seedling mat.

okay. so hears an update. I had to make some changes to the aria and the temperature became unstable for a wile and still isn't great. I'm quite limited as to what I can do with space, ventilation, temperature and power supply (20A 115V max). I was having a really stable temp before the changes. Hi was 76 and low was 72 never higher or lower. Now however I'm having problems (power supply limitations) being the main factor in temperature.

The best I can do is compromise with flower aria at 70-74 and veg at 68-72. The only way I can increase the temperature at the moment is to slow exhaust even more. But the exhaust fan is approaching stall voltage and can't be turned down any more. Cant run a heater when the 1000w light is on. I set the heater and thermostat on a timer so it can not activate if the light is on. Pulling air from outside that fluctuates anywhere between 8 and 32 deg.F (and will get much colder) is complicating things.

OH!! and being as poor as donkey shit can be is probably buy far the biggest contributing factor. LMAO. not sure why I'm laughing. But all of a sudden its funny that I went from having all that I needed and most of what I wanted in life to this!

Ok I got of topic. Back to busyness. wow so 80-100 Deg huh. OK Ill figure something out quick then because an average of 68 aint even close to that.

I must say I'm happy with the progress despite all this the clippings look the same as when I took them three days ago. so a heat mat is out of the question for this month. Ill jimmy rig something up for now.

Thanks for the advice again. I'll hopefully have better news next time.

To clarify I'm still using the home made ultra sonic cloner which has been neglected because of unrelated circumstances. It has clones in it there are rooting (slowly) but with an unstable success rate. The unit needs more tuning and I need more experience. For now I decided after talking to a few people that I'd use a rock wool propagation tray with a dome. Mainly because it seemed to be a much more guaranteed success rate. At the moment the slower they root and grow the better but its impotent that they survive till i see how the parents turn out. I took two clones from each. I'm using a standard sheet of 98 rock wool starter cubes with a 7” Clear Dome cover. The dome has adjustable ventilation holes. The rook wool is in a tray with Holes that sits inside a standard tray with no holes which has just enough water in it to not touch the rock wool. I'm currently working out how to raise the tray temp with what little junk I've got laying around.

Can you actually use a smaller font? Man.......

1st. Using an exhaust fan when the light is off; Is a waste of electricity.

If you can run a 1000w lamp, in you r grow space, and keep temps in the 70's, then you don't need much exhaust. However; it does help to recirculate air. You need athermostat that turns on fan if temps get above 80-85 degrees.

A 100-w lamp and ballast use approx. 11 amps. so you should not an issue runnign all you need for the small area you are using. doesn;t make sense that you are having issues in that regard.

lastly. Grow room should be 1/3 of total available size of entire grow area. this is because when you flower planys will be at least 2-3 times as big as vegged planys. One final note. You want the veg area hotter than the flower area; Always.

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Originally Posted by bitemybud

Can you actually use a smaller font? Man.......

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Sorry about the font size. I don't know whats going on I've been cranking the font size up to "3". I'll try the highest setting. It appears considerably larger then average on my PC. Let me know if this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bitemybud

Can you actually use a smaller font? Man.......

1st. Using an exhaust fan when the light is off; Is a waste of electricity.

If you can run a 1000w lamp, in you r grow space, and keep temps in the 70's, then you don't need much exhaust. However; it does help to recirculate air. You need athermostat that turns on fan if temps get above 80-85 degrees.

A 100-w lamp and ballast use approx. 11 amps. so you should not an issue runnign all you need for the small area you are using. doesn;t make sense that you are having issues in that regard.

lastly. Grow room should be 1/3 of total available size of entire grow area. this is because when you flower plants will be at least 2-3 times as big as vegged plants. One final note. You want the veg area hotter than the flower area; Always.

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Yes that's correct. Just under eleven amps for that one light alone. But when I include everything else (humidifier, the fans, 8-t8 bulbs, 4 23w cfls and the exhaust fan) it doesn't leave enough room for the heater. If the heater comes on it puts me over by quite a bit. the heater uses a little over 13A on high and around 8A on low.