more nutes or less with blue widow

im using 6 x6 rockwool cubes. hand watering drain to waste. 1000w hps in doors. 18 days into flowering. Gh flora. at 1 micro to 2 bloom ratio no grow. 1/4 tea per gallon of powder koolbloom. mixed to 1000 ppm at the present time. do these plants need more ppm or less? more nutes? are they getting burnt? any help much appreciated. im asking because gh's nute calculater says that you should not go over 850ppm. i did that for the first few weeks and just a few days ago went to 1000ppm when i saw yellowing and small bud development lower in the plant

This seems to me to be more of a soil type grow and ppm concerns are geared more toward hydro with a reclaiming feeding system, although I can see some pertinenance being you are just using rockwool. Now in my opinion, not that the nutrients you are using are bad, which they are not, but I would get some fertilizers that are formulated more toward hand feeding and if your are going to hand feed I would recommend using a good organic soil with bone meal and earthworm castings in stead of the rockwool.

It does look like some of the tips are burning a little bit to me but it also looks like your plant wants more root space. How many plants are under that 1000w?

1000ppm isn't too strong IMO....not for a plant that size....especially if you've been gradually increasing ppms with growth.... If the plant doesn't react negatively, give it 1k ppms for a week and increase to 1100 the next.... Flush thoroughly if negative affects appear.... If none appear, gradually increase.... 1800ppm is the highest I've run before running into negative affects....but that's just me....

Just my :twocents:....

CGI::::::

PPM/TDS is very important regardless of grow system.
The brown leaf tips are a sign of over feeding. back your food off by 100-150ppm.
The yellowing of the leaves is a result of your using the koolbloom. It's ok. just add some nitrogen to your nutrients. The nitrogen will bump your PPM up, but because the plant is in need of the nitrogen, it wont burn the plant. Try for the 850-900ppm and use the nitrogen to bump it to 950-1000ppm.
Basicly your plant will need more N as you increase your P and K levels.

When you see your leaf tips begin to brown or curl even slightly, back off the PPM.

When your leaves yellow, add nitrogen (just enough to get them to re-green).

If you see your leaves begin to get dark green and curl downward, back off the N.

When in flower, try not to over do the N as it will hinder flowering and bud production. Too little N and your leaves will yellow and hinder bud production.

If you have more nute questions, just PM me or post again.

Again, as it stands, your PPM are too high right now and you will need more N in your next feed or two.

hope this helps...

im definately staying soiless, first of all.....thanx ganjarob. i appreciate the info. ill do as you say and add some grow (N). i thought that it was best to eliminate the N considering that micro has alot. so the GH nute calculater must be close with ppm for waste to drain (850), though their reciculating calculation seems high at 1400ppm max bloom. i figured that when the plant started to yellow i needed to raise the ppm. the problem ive had in the past is that the leaf tips seem to brown even at relatively low ppm (600-700). i used to do recirculating and then watch the ppm as the reservior drained . if it went up i decreased the nutes if it went down i increased . but i never got past 700-800ppm that way. does that sound normal. thats less than the drain to waste levels. thats why i went to drain to waste but its my first time so i need nute strength/ratio help. wha t do you think of can grow it's answer of going to 1800ppm?? thanx for helping too CGI, but these answers are conflicting somewhat, just trying to get the right advise

Conflicting....on the Internet??? Noooooo.... It'll almost always happen....when asking for advice....

I go up to 1800 only if I know the plants can handle it.... Some strains can....some cannot.... It's up to me as the grower to pay attention to what my plant are telling me....

What is your feed/water schedule??? Have you flushed them any time???

CGI::::::

i hear ya bout the internet !!! i water for about 20 min each morning with my recirculating system, with 2 gal an hour drip emitters. that has 3 ft slabs. the widow in the block i water drain to waste when it starts to dry alot,,,,about every 2 days. i have flushed the rockwool. i have b een growing with the reciculating system for years and the "watch the ppm level in the res" worked fine but not fantastic and i never got over 800ppm that way). thats why im trying the blocks with drain to waste. i heard its easier to control than the slabs. problem with the slabs is when you flush you saturate the slabs and risk root rot overwatering. do you suggest watering the block (drain to waste) increasing strength from the 1100ppm??? i guess what im asking is . i have increased the nute strength to 1000ppm in the pix...are my plants telling you that it needs more nutes overall? or just N. also i havent had a grow in 10 years that didnt have leaf tip burn. recipe is gh flora 3 pt 0 grow 1micro 2 bloom ratio with 1/4 tea per gallon koolbloom. i read a thread that suggests i use 1/4 grow in the ratio with this recipe

ive already watered with Ganjas advise before i read yours CGI. so ill do another watering feeding as he suggested.....if no results ....ill bump it up as you suggest. lets see what works in this application anyway. keep in touch with me guys !!! my next grow will be all 6 x6 cubes so i need to dial in on this ASAP !! and thanx again for the help.

Sounds good :thumbsup:....

CGI::::::

~ I could guese at what exactly the problem is but..... it seems you are getting good advice, there is always trial and error, one thing I can think of that no one seems to have touched on (i only skimmed through replys) Is those charts are usually geared towards high lumen (footcandle) gardens. Lets say 9000 lumens to the tops, 10,000 being ideal or at least 1000 watt HPS lights. I you are using a 4oo or LED, Or whatever you may want to cut your food back whatever percentage your light is less than 1ooow. So a 400 watt hps would be 40% the food, or a 600 watt, 60% the food. This is NOT accurate mind you 600 can be placed closer , and yadda yadda, but plants really go through food in high light situations, and may only sip in low. All im trying to say is the chart is only an estimate, not a rule. I have heard great things about drain to waste rockwool, I have never tried it, Peace.

thanx for the advise Mr Pink !!! im running a 1000w hps on these. its just i got 2 opposite responses , one to lower ppm (too much fert) and one to increase ( more fert)so i guess its 50/50. here. stick around and well see how these cubes work !!! but ive heard theyre flawless and basically no work. i just need to find out what ppm is max or common for this type of grow. ive never done drain to waste before this. gh nute calc for drain to waste is 850-900 max and the same recipe for recirculating is 1400. just want to know where i should expect to be with DRAIN TO WASTE ppm strength. keep it comin guys i need all input and info......who agrees.......... we should raise ppm .........or lower ppm and raise N

k i read a bit more...... grout has a great point, To me it looks like lock out , of maybe the ph is locking out magnesium or other imobiles,due to what i guesse is high salini ty. most of the leaves are smallwich can be an inication of alot of nitrogen, and since you are using a complete food, this kinda means.... too much food, too much salt. this would be my guesse. I dont know blue widow, but in generall the more indica a strain is the less food it needs. they are squat dense bushes, not x-mas trees. It is safer to under feed than over, If you stayed at week 1 and only moved to weak 2 when they looked hungry, the may be playing it too safe but, you would be unlikely to over feed, Or maybee set an expeiamental limit for the ppm at week 4............... Some things you may want to look into... , table angle 3 degrees is ideal for NFT, i am not sure about rockwool. water temp, at what ppm is your ph perfect? <<<<<the more info you give the better peeps can help, water temp air temp humidity,etc. I do know that rockwool has the ability to hold nurients away from plants, certainly more then airoponics or hydroton, so a routine leaching, or straight water period would probably help until you nail that bitch! sorry if i am blabing shit you already know, hope it helps

I cant type or spell. =(

Looks like your ph is fucked up. whats the ph? it doesn't matter what ppm's are, as long as the ph is out of range the plant cant absorb them anyways.

no blabbing all info helps...im leaning to too much fert as well.the reason i dont list temps ,ph humidity is cause theyre all right on. humd about 30. temp 78, ph 6.0 or little less........so DD11 its not the ph..i personally think its lockout but whenever i use a 7-800ppm max or a weak solution so theres no tip burn sometimes i dont even get buds ...just stays in veg. its like if i dont burn/ hammer them ,,,,they dont respond. basically ive been doing what CGI suggests. more ppms...... ive tried less no burn ,,,,no luck but no consistency or understanding of whats really correct. im looking for someone who.....knows someone that has done drain to waste 6x6 ROCKWOOL cubes and what recipe was used. can anyone direct me to someone steeped in this knowledge.

welllll. ganja ...tried your advise and the yellowing is worse and bud development at minimum....guess im gonna have to try CGI 's advise.........increase ppm..... you ready CGI

this is where im at after going to 850-900ppm and adding to 950-1000 adding grow as recommended. i believe i n eed more advise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazy Haze

this is where im at after going to 850-900ppm and adding to 950-1000 adding grow as recommended. i believe i n eed more advise.

---

Things to keep in mind:

Leaves that have yellowed will continue to do so and eventually whither and die off....whether you fixed your problem or not.... You mentioned that you dropped your ppms and the yellowing increased.... Now that you've raised them, the yellowing should slow....but the leaves will not repair themselves....only die off/yellow slower....

The most important leaves to pay attention to at this point are the new leaves that are growing out of the buds.... As long as those don't start to yellow or show over fert signs, you know you're on the right track....

What's your nute recipe consist of??? Like how many ml's per bottle of what per gallon do you give??? Also, does your cube sit in a puddle after being watered/fed??? How dry do you let the cube get before adding moisture again???

CGI::::::

Got a couple minutes??? Click the link in my sig, "PPMs Made Easy to Understand".... Short two page thread with lots of info....

gh 3 part........ 1100ppm......... 1/4grow- 2 micro - 4 bloom ratio ive read the ppm thread. i was following the gh calculator

GROW
Nutrient Solution 330 seedlings 1 week 1/4-1/4-1/4 ( even) ratio
830 grow 1 week at 3-2-1 ratio
920 aggressive grow 3-2-1- ratio 3 weeks
BLOOM
850 transition 2-2-2 ratio 1/8 tea per gal powder koolbloom 1 week
830 agg bloom 0-1-2 ratio 1/4 tea per gal powder koolbloom 5 weeks
500 ripen 0-1-4 ratio no koolbloom 1 week
flush plain water 1 week

im doing this same recipe with recirculating rockwool slabs but the ppms are 440 1130 1430 1390 1330 690

ratio being
grow-micro-bloom

cube is not sitting in water, i water when the cube is very light and almost dry

800ppm is pretty high for week 1 of veg IMO....but if it's been working for ya....

It looks like you have your macro nutes in order.... Do you use CalMag??? Any Vitamin B-1???

CGI::::::

well its not been working for me as you can see. im going to start using calmag. what B-1 formula should i get??? i re read your ppm chart and have decided to reduce my reciculating from 1400ppm to 1000ppm where you recomend/ the blue widow looked like the NEW leaves have some tip burn(thanx for the info on yellowing leaves) so i gave it a flush and will continue with your ppm chart. one question....how come drain to waste has such lower ppm strength compared to recirculating and should i follow their ppm recom,( 850-900 max)or go by your chart at this week 4 1000ppm. i read you were in soil. does ppm your chart apply to hydro as well?? thnx again. my next grow i will definately use your ppm chart and not hit them with 800 right away, i do believe your info is helping tremendously

Hey CGI i woke up today and saw what appeared to be seeds forming. my bud gave me a OG he started from seed. it is flowering but i think it has what appears to be a pollen sac. anyway my whole crop has seeds now, so i started a new grow and have it in the Hydro section. i was wondering if you could help walk me through it. im using your ppm made simple chart. BTW can i use the seeds from the grow or will they turn both too??? so its not a total loss. hope to hear from ya

Well that sucks....

I'm no bean pro so I really don't know if them beans will do the same or mix or what.... I grow clones....from fem seed plants....

I'll be glad to help any way that I can....

CGI::::::

I have some plants going now from seed that were the result of a hermi Amnesia Haze germinating a Super Lemon Haze.. If you're interested I'll post how it goes, possibly in another thread. My debate is if I'm going to spray them down with Reverse as a precaution.. I'd really like to know if I can get a solid plant to clone.

Regarding your next grow.. I'm not a hydro hater and tried it for a while, but keeping it simple and growing in soilless mix is much less prone to problems and much more forgiving if you screw up. Problem I had with using hydro (aero/nft in my case) was that when things turned to shit, there wasn't much recovering it. Trouble is hot weather and the reservoirs getting too hot and making root rot a problem. Also, if you have a multi-plant system... you'll loose them all at once. I'd shit can the rock wool too... a neutral soilless mix will give you fewer Ph problems.

Glad to help too.

Peace,

Farmer Rich

thanx CGI and FARMER.i always do clones but my bud had these from a bud he got. it was my mistake but after it showed female signs i figured i was cool. yeah its got big buds on it but at one node theres a sac. thought that was what a hermi was. ive gotten seeds close to the bottom of finished plants before and they were all females guaranteed, but this has bud clusters and of course the sac on the hermi. if the seeds can be used ill have some VERY interesting OG,s.let me know how it goes Farmer. both keep an eye on the grow ive got in Hydro. ive had probs with rockwool slabs retaining too much water thats why i went to the blocks, for more control thanx for keepin an eye on me CGI ! a fresh start, fresh grow should help my situation

also farmer ive never really had ph probs. my res in my recirculating is always 6.0-5.7 around there adding nutes and topping off daily. weekly res change and 2 week flush. i used to extract water from the slabs to check too and it was always right on. my problems been root rot from too much water, i believe anyway and was told. i used to water 4 times a day 20 min on with 2 gal hr drip emitters. i was told to water ONLY when the slabs dry out, so maybe when they dry ill run into ph probs?? ill be on it hopefully. i tried DWC with NO success, but i plan on trying that again someday. paid 400 for the unit!!!

my God . what has happened to my beautiful blue widow plant. i did as ganja said, more nitro for a few waterings. then went up to 1100ppm as suggested by CGI.

When I was doing aero/NFT, I used rubbermade 18 gallon containers for reservoirs, filling to 12 gallons and changed them weekly. Never topped off or added nutrients in flight (seems to risky), just changed them out weekly.. If ever you're having nutrient problems, always better to go lighter as opposed to more..

Hope you recover!