Medical marijuana: 3,200 patient applications in limbo, may be tossed due to technicalities - Denver News - The Latest Word
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:(Read the article. Guess it seems a PA 'photocopied' a Dox signature and then signed. Mostly from one clinic!
Guess they are all out the cost of Dr. visit and fee to State of $90. And have to wait for "return" of applications! Really sucks!!:mad:
Hope you all get :stoned: anyway! pr
I just got a well docs renewal 11/11/11. The signatures of doc and notary are all signed in blue ink.
it's not welldocs fault. the BOH is again changing the rules after the fact and fucking patients.
I'm still glad I go to a 1 doctor office & he encourages you to check his license status:thumbsup:
People need to stop patronizing these registry mills. I don't see how the doctors who operate them do so ethically.
What ethical issue is at stake?Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
Is there such thing as a noble lie in your mind?
No, but these businesses aren't about nobility. They're about seeing as many patients in as little time in the most cursory manner possible in order to maximize profit. Nobility doesn't enter into it. There's something wrong with these five-minute examinations; after all, they purportedly address serious medical conditions like cancer and AIDS. If I were a doctor, I couldn't square the wink-wink-nod-nod exams with my professional responsibility to do my best for every patient. I don't care if the patients or doctors lie to the state, but it's a scummy way to practice medicine, much like an attorney who does nothing but frivolous liability or whiplash cases.
With the atrociously expensive state of health care, doctors should provide more than a signature when patients come seeking a medical marijuana recommendation, and should at the very least have an honest conversation about the effects of cannabis and the potential draw backs and results of its use, as any doctor prescribing any pharmaceutical medicine should.
This type of winking, as you put it, is common with opioid pain killers. Doctors don't just advertise that they accomodate those seeking pain killers, but word gets out, and it happens. The real winner there is the pharmaceutical company.
The 96% of Colorado Medical Marijuana Patients who have had MMJ recommended for 'chronic pain' are not fraudulent as many sources would have you believe.
Pain is common, be it due to surgery or trauma, and from my personal experiences as a budtender I can tell you that while many will say that pain isn't sufficient reason to use medical marijuana, I see it work wonders where pharmaceuticals didn't work and were accompanied by nausea and potentially more lethal side-effects.
How severe does pain have to be to justify using a narcotic but not medical marijuana?
they should just do away with the sham of the Dr Rec. As long as people are willing to pay, someone will be willing to sign. It's not easy or inexpensive to spend a half hour or 45 with a doc to talk about herb. I want a doc that believes I meight benefit from the herb and will sign me off. xrays and diagnosis don't lie and it doesn't take 45 minnutes with me, a smoker of 30 years, to do an mj rec.
That is what the amendment called for, right? Not a dr-patient relationship and a special dr appt done in a special way, not even required w/ EOL opiate pain management.
:jointsmile:I personally, have not seen a Dr. sign a mmj 'req.' in the same fashion as a lawyer takes a civil case and sits on it milking $ from their clients and doing nothing until the law mandates a settlement! There is no comparison! I would agree with you on point-that some lawyers are bad, most likely there are a few good ones!Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
Here in CA the major HMO's are begining to write 'reqs' for mmj! A sign that they simply want the 'members' to pay for their own medication.
:rasta: pr
The answer is LEGALIZATION! No question to it!
And. . . in the meantime, back to the thread. Forgery. . .Shameful!
Does anyone know if any lawyers are going to take this up as some kind of class-action? I'm wondering because unless Well Docs comes out saying they are going to refund the $ to the patients then this is a big problem. 6 months to re-apply after already having your $90 check cashed and paying $65 to well-docs. I'd be more than willing to spearhead any campaign that puts the nails in their coffin. This is bullshit
Im in the same situation and Im getting so fustrated because I did everything I had to,..now because someone wants to f@#k me around I cant get into the places I need to get into,..I can get into these other janky ass places with the crappiest herb Ive seen,..how do these docs justify f@#kn up the paperwork? How does the state justify there paperwork mess?? but most of all,..How are these people allowed to sell this bunk ass shit????
You might try putting a call into Vicente Consulting (Brian Vicente of Sensible Colorado) or Robert Corey to see if they have any suggestions for recourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmngzckynd
The easiest solution would be pressuring the state into allowing these patients to apply again, or at least offer them some course of action other than going without vital medicine.
This whole situation is frustrating for all involved. We have loyal patients who we can't serve because of this mess. It hurts to see people so frustrated and be unable to help.
Imagine quality control for cannabis. "Yes hello, I am the state marijuana inspector. This here is USDC (the US department of cannabis) grade A herb, but The $15 1/8th you bought at that 'janky ass' place isn't even marijuana."
I suggest calling Colorado Rep Pat Steadman and see if he can do anything
http://patsteasman.com
he returns emails and answers his phone and he cares.
This just in:
Medical marijuana: CDPHE's Dr. Chris Urbina on physician assistants, patient denials - Denver News - The Latest Word
Dr. Urbina over at the CDPHE seems to think it as appropriate to punish patients who need medicine for what a physician has done.
I keep trying to find the logic, but obviously I don't have the requisite short circuit these bureaucrats have.
I talked to someone at the state and now it turns out I have to wait to the end of January!!! damm,..Im so angry!! I have no idea what to do,..I need my meds bcause I dont have pills to fallback on when this happens,...I wish I could sue them for this,...this is so bad for me,..I either dont have money for meds,...or I have money for meds and they wont give me my card,..I hate those janky ass dispensaries,..and I paid 25!!! I WANT MY MEDS!!!!!! that I qualify for legally,..with a legitimate condition,...why?? why?why?,...sorry guys,..didnt mean to cry on your shoulders,...
OMG! I just rad that artice man,...I had only seen this doctor I saw once,..the time I got my renewal,..he did a physical and all but that was the only time I had ever seen him,...according to that article, I will be denied because of this one time visit!!! holy batshit,...what am I going to do,...I seriously need some meds,..any suggestions,..I will meet someone in denver,..top shelf and high in CBD's if possible,...
Holy crap!
I just called the Dr's phone number on the renewal papers and some dood answered saying he knew what I was calling about and that the Boulder WellDocs operation had been shut down and he'd taken over. He then offered the Dr's personal phone number then realized he didn't have it but if I called back tonight, he'd have it. I looked on the internet and there's no phone number for this Dr. He also said I'd just have to wait and see what the Health dept did with these applications. I asked if the Dr I saw was a real one and he said yes but seeing what the Health dept is doing isn't exactly comforting.
This is totally screwed up. It says on the papers "How many time have you seen this patient in the past 12 months?" The Dr wrote "0".
My guess is that the Health dept will punish me for 6 months if I send it in...I dunno. I'm currently trying to get my money back to see another Dr but wouldn't that Dr just mark "0", too?
Ugh...I should have known...It was all too simple.
Here is a good article that explains the difference between being 'rejected' and 'denied' that also quotes Robert Corry who is representing one of the doctors affected.
Seems like a reasonable argument to me. Reason doesn't seem to be in abundance here though.
Med. marijuana lawyer: Health dept. can't deny cards over physician assistants - Denver News - The Latest Word
I've since called around dispensaries and other doc referral places. All said I was lucky not to have sent in my WellDocs paperwork to the health dept because it will probably be highly scrutinized and rejected.
One problem isn't so much the ongoing relationship (it's a new industry) but rather these places that rent office space out to docs and work a few hours here and there. It's supposed to be a regular hours operation.
Everyone recommended I just go to another doc for renewal, skip the WellDocs mess, and avoid a high probability of being rejected and punished for 6 months.
I was a happy camper but now I'm out $55 and pissed.
I hate to keep posting but I just called the health dept to see if they would accept my WellDocs renewal forms. All they told me was that the investigation of WellDocs ended yesterday and that they would not be releasing any names or information. They actually told me they didn't have anything to do with the results anyway. Big help they are...
However, I found another place in Boulder who was sympathetic with my dilemma and was willing to match what I spent. He looked up my WellDoc physician and found she actually was a doctor. But he also mentioned he wasn't aware of ANY WellDocs forms having been successfully processed.
It's a crapshoot I'm not willing to take a chance on. I'll have to start over...
as far as I know its not welldocs,..its the state,..did you see Dr. sjdak,..that's who I saw,.. and if you already sent in paperwork, they wont let you start over,..its bullshit,....bad deal,
I saw Dr Livingwell and I didn't send in anything...fortunately
I saw Dr. Sujdak,..and I personally saw him sign my application,..his signature is on my paperwork,...so it's the state man,..they're horrible
I just read this article,..thank you ever so much, but I would like to bring something to your attention,..if you read the whole article, Corry says that our paperwork is good to go,..with this being said, and beings you posted this,,....can I get into DenverRelief now??!!!! been trying for a year and a half now!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by DenverRelief
I regret to give you bad news again, but the legislation that went into effect in July regulates medical marijuana centers also created the Medical Marijuana Enforcement Division that oversees any MMJ business in the state. They have the strict rule that the application can be no older than 35 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmngzckynd
The original MMJ amendment is what Corey is referring to is what governs the CDPHE which issues cards, but we have to listen to the MMED or else risk our license. What Corey is saying is technically accurate (*not legal advice* it could be an affirmative defense if you were growing or purchased from a private caregiver) but has since been superseded for dispensaries.
Appealing is really your best bet.
if you saw Sujdak or PA+Sujdak you can count on a denial.
thanks,....ill kill myself tomorrow,...thanks,..jk I kynda figured, I cant ever do shit write,....weird how I follwed all the steps and have legitimate conditions for this shit to happen,...sucks oh well i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by copobo
I know,..I'm just talking sh1t,...I wouldn't ever wanna jeopardize a dispensary like yours,..all the janky ones though yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by DenverRelief
I loved that CDPHE was doing it but where in A20 does it authorize PA's to make recommendations for mmj?
Many of the recs in question have 2 signatures, one of the PA and one from the physician. The CDPHE says this makes it unclear who had the relationship with the patient, but two medical professionals must be better than one, at least that's logical to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenedson
Ammendment 20 is now Article XVIII - Section 14, and it doesn't explicitly allow for PA's, but there was a time when CDPHE accepted them, then flipped policy without notice.
The language in question
I can go to the ER and NEVER see an MD. I've had stiches, pain meds prescribed, and diagnosis made w/o an MD or DO, but for some reason an office that uses both PA's and a physician to conduct exams isn't bona-fide.Quote:
(I) The patient was previously diagnosed by a physician as having a debilitating medical condition;
(II) The patient was advised by his or her physician, in the context of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, that the patient might benefit from the medical use of marijuana in connection with a debilitating medical condition; and
I can't find the logic in it. Reefer madness strikes again.
I've heard the health dept isn't exactly thrilled with the new MMJ division they've been forced to make. When I called them, I sensed they really didn't like answering questions related to MMJ all day long. When I asked them for a recommendation on what to do, they said "We don't recommend anything."
How do I look up my doctor?
If you are looking to see if your doctor is in good standing, you can search from this link:Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread
https://www.doradls.state.co.us/alison.php
If you need a doctor to write a recommendation, go to our home page and click on 'get your license' then 'doctors recommendations' where we have referral information.
I just checked my doctor,..he's good,..so I saw a good doctor, paid my fees, I have a legitimate condition(3 surgeries on shoulder, chronic pain, and I'm bipolar, just figured that out) I sent in my paperwork right, my question is, why am I being treated this way?? seriously, cant I sue someone for this,
I've been gathering info from several patients that saw Dr. Lenny Sujdak. Some were seen by a woman and others were seen by a man. Some were seen at well docs and some at red card district. All asked specifically if he or she was a dr. and told yes.
Initially, I was angry with the state, but since Dr. Lenny Sujdak can be both man and woman, I have to wonder. Sounds like fraud to me. Maybe not entirely the state's fault.
The state says they have to approve or deny apps within 35 days, so that's one point of contention. Secondly, if we are all having our apps delayed due to this Dr. or PA's fraudulent misrepresentation, we may have a class action against the Dr. and or PA, as well as the company using this guy. I'm no lawyer, but I would be interested in getting together with others to see one. I'm taking emails at ciagiat at hotmail.
the state has 35 days but we cant go into dispensaries anyways,...what good is that? and check your email,...im interested to
I saw a PA at welldocs in Boulder and they were straight up about it being a PA.
The one at 30th and baseline?
yes.