Palestine. towards an independent state

Palestinian football fans cheer their national men's team at half-time during an Olympic games qualifying match with Thailand. Photograph: Ammar Awad/Reuters


www.guardian.co.uk


Palestine will become the 194th member of the UN if its application for statehood goes ahead and succeeds. But what will this mean?


Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 20 September 2011 10.25 EDT


What will be the territory of Palestine?


Palestine is likely to consist of territory in the West Bank and Gaza, totalling around 6,200 sq km (2,393 sq miles). At the moment the two areas are physically separate, although they could be linked by a sealed road in future.

The Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as the capital of their new state. Israel, which annexed the east of the city after the 1967 war, rejects any division.

The borders have not been decided and will be a matter for negotiation with Israel, which wants to retain its big settlement blocs in the West Bank. Land swaps in compensation are expected to be agreed.

The Palestinian population is around 2.6 million in the West Bank, 1.6 million in Gaza and 270,000 in East Jerusalem. Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim although there is a small Christian population.

There are also around 300,000 Jewish settlers in the West Bank and a further 200,000 in East Jerusalem. Israel evacuated settlers from Gaza in 2005.

Arabic is the language of Palestine.


What are the symbols of the new state?


Flag: black, white and green stripes overlaid with a red triangle, adopted as the flag of the Palestinian people in 1964. It was banned by the Israeli government until 1993.

Passport: Palestinian Authority passports have been available to people born within its jurisdiction since 1995. However, many Palestinians hold Jordanian passports.

Currency: the Israeli shekel, but there is talk of reviving the Palestinian pound.

Sport: Palestine has both a men's and a women's national football team.

Military: Palestine has no army, airforce or navy.


How is Palestine governed?


There are two separate de facto governments in the West Bank and Gaza, under a president elected by all the Palestinian people. There is also an elected legislative council.

In the West Bank, the authority, dominated by the Fatah political faction, is the official administrative body. Established in 1994 under the Oslo accords, its jurisdiction runs only in the main cities of the West Bank.

Hamas is in charge of the Gaza Strip after fighting a bloody battle for control against Fatah in 2007, after winning elections 18 months before.

The Palestinian president is Mahmoud Abbas, and the prime minister in the West Bank is Salam Fayyad. In Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh is the de facto prime minister.

Earlier this year, following a reconciliation agreement with Hamas, which has since faltered, Abbas promised elections next year.


Does Palestine already have most of the institutions of state?


There is a legislative council and local authorities, and ministries of finance, health, education, transport, agriculture, interior, justice, labour, culture, social affairs etc.

The West Bank and Gaza have separate security forces and judicial systems.

There is a Palestinian stock exchange in Nablus.


Where does its money come from?


Most of the authority's income comes from international donors, although it also raises money from taxes and customs. Under the Oslo accords, Israel collects around £69m each month in customs duties which it then forwards to the authority.

Employees pay taxes, although much employment is on a cash basis.

Most of the West Bank's trade is with Israel, although some goods are exported to Europe. Exports from the West Bank were estimated to be worth around $850m (£541m) last year. Exports from Gaza have ceased, with rare exceptions, since Israel imposed a blockade more than four years ago.

The EU contributes around $700m a year, and the US $600m.

In April, the International Monetary Fund said the authority was "now able to conduct the sound economic policies expected of a future well-functioning Palestinian state, given its solid track record in reforms and institution-building in the public finance and financial areas."

Gaza's funding is opaque. According to Israeli and western intelligence, money is channelled from Iran and Islamist supporters in the Arab world.


Will state recognition change the situation on the ground?


No, is the short answer. Almost everything will be the same. The lives of Palestinians will continue to be dominated by the Israeli occupation and control over their territory. But it may strengthen their position in future talks.


What about Gaza?


Gaza is hardly mentioned in all the current debate about a Palestinian state. Mahmoud Abbas is the elected president of all Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza, but the current geographic and political separation make a unified state difficult. Hamas disapproves of the authority's approach to the UN, saying it reflects a "path of compromise" instead of resistance. Haniyeh has said: "We support establishing a Palestinian state on any part of Palestinian land without giving up an inch of Palestine or recognising Israel."


I want to visit the new state of Palestine. How do I get there?


The West Bank's only entry and exit points are overland via Israel and Jordan. It has no airport and is landlocked. It is practically impossible for ordinary visitors to get into Gaza. It has two strictly-controlled exit and entry points by land to Israel and Egypt. Israel maintains a naval blockade off Gaza's coast preventing the movement of sea traffic. The runway of Gaza's airport was bombed by the Israelis in 2002.

is anyone buying this rick perry zionist cowboy load of shit? :D :rastasmoke: I didn't vote for this pres but ... come on. :stoned:

Palestinians want their own state...? How the hell are they going to afford welfare payments to the entire population that appears incapable of work, and seem to do nothing more than propogate hate and violence against Jews, Christians and Women? Perhaps were they to work for peace instead of violence I'd feel differently, but I could really care less about their plight. Perhaps if the Palestinians could recognize the rights of others, there would be more interest in their plight beyond being the expendable pawn for arabs in the region.

Load of shit to you...principles, morals and values to others. Depends on your perspective.

What...? We still have a president...? I thought he was demoted to Community Organizer. Must have been wishful thinking...

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Palestinians want their own state...? How the hell are they going to afford welfare payments to the entire population that appears incapable of work, and seem to do nothing more than propogate hate and violence against Jews, Christians and Women? Perhaps were they to work for peace instead of violence I'd feel differently, but I could really care less about their plight. Perhaps if the Palestinians could recognize the rights of others, there would be more interest in their plight beyond being the expendable pawn for arabs in the region.

Load of shit to you...principles, morals and values to others. Depends on your perspective.

What...? We still have a president...? I thought he was demoted to Community Organizer. Must have been wishful thinking...

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Rick Perry is a joke. I can't believe anyone is falling for his act.

You assume too much, but I'd vote for him over Osama, any day.

yeah Rusty, I didn't mean to imply that you were a Perry supporter, I just meant to state my own personal opinion on what I've seen of him so far, especially his effort to score political points on this issue at a critical time when our President is trying to resolve this seeming impossible task. but, to be honest, Rusty, I would probably vote for him over Obama too. :D I'm not a big Obama fan. I just like to talk shit sometimes, I guess. :rastasmoke:

Wasn't trying to jump on ya, was just pointing-out that other's have different opinions for different reasons.

He isn't really my cup of tea, but I'd drink from his fountain before I'd drink the liberal Kool Aid. I'll vote against candidates that wish to skirt or shit on the constitution.

I'll likely vote for Romney or Paul. Not much substance beyond those two, so far. And I'm not above voting the collective conservative conscious, if it get's this socialist administration out of office...

Sure wish they would teach the other side of the political coin in schools. Seems the younger crowd has half the story, but run with it as if it's the whole truth. It's disheartening and dishonest when the schools are the indoctrinating body....

Yeah, I've always like Ron Paul, he would be my first choice, too. I was never much of a Romney fan but I do like what he was saying about trade with China during the debates. were getting hosed by unfair trade practice. and yeah, I agree with you about the liberal bias in schools and collleges, I felt fortunate that I was able to avoid all that koolaid in college. :D

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Originally Posted by boaz

Rick Perry is a joke. I can't believe anyone is falling for his act.

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Rick Perry and John Huntsman are both progressives being pushed by the "Anointed One" to run on the Republican ticket, but any"TRUE" conservative will tell you they are both RINO's and will not get the vote of the conservative party. I guess I should say conservative voters, I don't pretend to know what the party might do. All I know for sure is Obamy is through, and the only reason he will run is his over inflated ego won't let them put him in the history books as the worst President in history. If he did not run it would also hurt the Dem. party and probably cost them the house and senate for years to come. So you Libs enjoy it while you can. Next election it will be over when Michelle starts sing'in.

Might even get an impeachment resulting from one or more of his scandals.
From hiring 113 liberls and 0 conservatives into his Justice Dept (an illegal act they tried to impeach Bush for, when Bush had a small handfull of these 'biased' firings) to Solyndra and other "green project" pay-offs, to the economy and abysmal unemployment figures, to collusion with the marxists, socialists, communists he appointed in his own regulatory cabinet, to EPA being used to back-door energy tax policy...Geez...almost sounds like a lot, and that's just AFTER becoming king.

But I'm sure his wife is proud of the United States now, since her husband has done soooo much to straighten our asses out.

Personally, I would check the box marked "Turd, Rat" before ever thinking of a vote for a democrat. At least until they purge their ranks.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

...
Personally, I would check the box marked "Turd, Rat" before ever thinking of a vote for a democrat. At least until they purge their ranks.

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Well ... I voted for Sarah Palin for the vp. against him last election. that pretty close. :rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by catdaddy

Rick Perry and John Huntsman are both progressives being pushed by the "Anointed One" to run on the Republican ticket, but any"TRUE" conservative will tell you they are both RINO's and will not get the vote of the conservative party. I guess I should say conservative voters, I don't pretend to know what the party might do. ...

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yep. I don't prentend that I know either. I might register as republican so I can vote in the primary election here. I would like to have a chance to finally vote for Ron Paul. Independents voters can't vote in primaries here. I have not voted for a democrat for president since my very first time voting at 18, when I wasted my vote on Clinton's first term. never again. but, both parties suck, in my opionion. its six crooks or half dozen crooks. :jointsmile:

Been voting for Ron Paul for quite a while. The only libertairian on the ticket. He knows what to do about Palestine. He will butt the hell out and let them and Israel work out there own problems that have nothing to do with us.

It has everything to do with the US so long as we are giving Israel billions in economic and military aid. It is US weapons that are doing the killing. You many not appreciate what that means but I guarantee it is understood from Istanbul to to Rabat. I suppose you agree with the below quote from Romney that we should subvert our interests to Israel? While you read the below quote imagine a candidate for US president making this same statement about any other country / region (substitute German or Japan). From what you have written below you agree with this statement. Ron Paul certainly wouldn't agree. As far as I can tell he is the only one on the republican stage with any real backbone or integrity. From the next GOP candidate for President talking about moving the US embassy from TA to Jerusalem, (opposed by every sitting president since Regan btw):

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Romney: The actions that I will take will be actions recommended and supported by Israeli leaders. I don't seek to take actions independent of what our allies think is best, and if Israel's leaders thought that a move of that nature would be helpful to their efforts, then that's something I'll be inclined to do. But again, that's a decision which I would look to the Israeli leadership to help guide. I don't think America should play the role of the leader of the peace process, instead we should stand by our ally. Again, my inclination is to follow the guidance of our ally Israel, as to where our facilities and embassies would exist.

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The economic aid,foreign policy, of Amerika is what is causing this. Especially during these times we shouldn't be giving any country economic aid. And Ron understands this. He's the only politician that hasn't changed his tune in 30 years. Even I don't always agree with him but I respect his personal integrity.

people always say that all of our foriegn aid only makes up about 1% or our national budget. my response to that is ... so? its still a shitload of money and just like Paul has said, too, its the principal of the matter. this constant meddling in other countries private business is not buying us any goodwill its just the opposite it makes country become dependent on us and hostile towards us. just think about how would we like it if another country constantly ran our affairs (well I guess Israel already does but ..). the American people would be much better off when we reign in the globalists that run our country. :twocents:

Yep. End the imperialism. France got there ass kicked because of it, Britain got its ass kicked because of it and we're about to get our ass kicked because of it. Everyone born on this planet is born with unalienable rights. Our Bill of Rights spells out those rights. We should be treating other people based on those amendments or we are nothing but hypocrites.

We could save a lot more money by bring our troops home. I'm not talking about Iraq and Afghanistan, though that is surely part of the equation. I'm talking about our forces in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. There is no need for us to maintain these levels. We can no longer afford it. We are over extended. Maintaining them is bankrupting us. We can no longer spend $688 billion annually on our military. We need that money to go into productive assets at home, and to pay down some debt. We will be stronger for it in the long run. Boaz, the point that most people are making about the foreign assistance budget is that we can not solve our fiscal problems by axing the foreign assistance budget. Not even close. If that has to be part of the package then so be it but we're going to need a much bigger pie to feed the crisis we're in. $688 billion is a pretty big pie.

yeah, I agree bigsby, why do we still have troops in Germany?? Do we really need to provide all the military to all the free world while everyone else in the world contributes reletively jack shit?

back on topic ... I liked this article about Palestine because it doesn't really judge anyone it just spells out in simple terms what needs to happen for Palestine and Israel to be able to live side by side in peace. I have nothing against Israel, never been there would love to go some time. My prayers are for peace there and I think if the hardcore extremist Zionists in the US would just butt the hell out then they might have a much better chance at hammering out mutual peace and security there. :twocents: One can hope so anyway.

now totally off topic. :rastasmoke: bigsby, what do think about the idea of taxing the federal reserve? I've heard that a .0006 tax rate on the federal reserve banks income would double out national income tax revenue and allow all the rest of us to not pay any federal income tax at all. no payroll deductions, no tax forms and all that bs. I love that idea!! but thats going to be tuff slog to ever get thru our crooked congress. another idea I really like is retroactive impeachments for all congressmen who do not follow the constitution as they pledged to do in their oath. throw out all 'em and start over again. wishfull thinking anyways.

Hello really hope it works out for these guys.We sent an aid ship from ireland and once again it was unlawfully stopped.But i here there going to keep sending ships untill it works.Were with you guys.

I'm an atheist so I could care less about the religious angle but I do care about the much more important human rights angle.
Here's a little secret to life. You can not conquer a country with peace. Israel took the arab territory of Palestine by force and Palestine will have to do the same thing to get there country back. But thats going to be very difficult land locked and surrounded by jews.
We took our country by force, right or wrong thats the way it happened. 60 million native Americans were slaughtered so that europeans could push there imperialism westward, just a fact. So when we have elected political leaders in this country that think Palestine doesn't have the right to use force to take there country back they are hypocrites.
One of the things that should happen is that NATO should disarm Israel of all nuclear arms before they go batshit crazy. Allow them to keep there conventional weapons and slaughter each other of a piece of worthless dirt.

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Originally Posted by boaz

now totally off topic. :rastasmoke: bigsby, what do think about the idea of taxing the federal reserve? I've heard that a .0006 tax rate on the federal reserve banks income would double out national income tax revenue and allow all the rest of us to not pay any federal income tax at all. no payroll deductions, no tax forms and all that bs. I love that idea!! but thats going to be tuff slog to ever get thru our crooked congress. another idea I really like is retroactive impeachments for all congressmen who do not follow the constitution as they pledged to do in their oath. throw out all 'em and start over again. wishfull thinking anyways.

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While we're at it, let's add a tax equal to 1 tenth of 1% on all stock transactions. We could raise $50 - $100 billion / year this way. And everyone's pet peeve, let's audit the Fed AND the pentagon. Did you know that the pentagon does not have a functioning audit system? @ $688 billion / year they should be able to tell us where the $$ is spent, except they can't.

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Originally Posted by bigsby

While we're at it, let's add a tax equal to 1 tenth of 1% on all stock transactions. We could raise $50 - $100 billion / year this way. And everyone's pet peeve, let's audit the Fed AND the pentagon. Did you know that the pentagon does not have a functioning audit system? @ $688 billion / year they should be able to tell us where the $$ is spent, except they can't.

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yep. get on it congress or we'll boot your ass again.

i should have started a new thread this is off topic, but related.