New Grow Room Advice

Hey Guys,

I am planning my first real grow room setup. I would like to run things past you guys who are a lot more experienced and can guide me better. So, let me start by explaining what I have, and want :-)

Basically, I just want to be self sufficient.. I smoke ~ 2 - 3 oz a month. I have seen these autoflowering strains which allow seed - bud in 8 - 10 weeks, great! I can grow a handful of different strains, for 2 months and get enough to keep me going until the next crop. Or so this is the plan. I would like to use autoflowering seeds, maybe grow 10, and hope for an oz of each and that should see me through.

Onto my space. I have a built-in closet that I would like to use, its in one of the upstairs bedrooms so nice and out of the way. The space size of this room is:

70cm x 70cm x 160

So not a great big space but enough to be self sufficient I hope :-)

My research so far has led me to thinking of this:

Grab a grow tent such as this one (60 X 60 X 140CM DARK ROOM GROW TENT DARKROOM | eBay)

And use CFL lighting such as these two:

300w Red Giant CFL hydroponics grow light & reflector | eBay

and

300w Blue Giant CFL hydroponics grow light & reflector | eBay

Now, from what i've read about these two types of CFLs, is blue = beg, red = flowering, or i could use both throughout. Considering that i am going to use an auto flowering strain which has light on constantly at 18/6 maybe just use both of them lights constantly on 18/6?

My questions are these:

1) WIth my setup i explained, can i get away with out an exhaust and intake fan for my first grow because of the lack of heat (i am in the uk, so temp is cold now, and the CFLS don't generate too much heat).. maybe next grow i can look at intake/exhaust/carbon filter - or do i have to have a filter system in place or is it just going to fail otherwise? (Baring in mind i will have a big oscillating fan in the room at all times and i can open the vents and close the outer closet door so it can get venting that way?

2) Are those two lights enough to do an auto flowering strain from start to finish and get some decent bud from?

I would like to hear some advice please? I have around £200 to spend on this setup, I'd like to contain it all in a tent and use CFLs because of the low electricity/heat usage.. so what should i go for is the above setup adequate for a first grow?

Look forward to hearing your comments :)

Hi :) Firstly, you will need to vent the room. The plants will need a constant supply of co2, and passing fresh air through the room will increase the rate of growth. If you don't suck fresh air into your grow room you will need to inject CO2, which can be a pain, but there's a cheap method of injecting CO2 with water, sugar and yeast. If you don't have enough CO2 in the room your plants will grow really slowly, plus you are wasting some of the light seeing as photosynthesis uses light and CO2 together. Hooking up a bathroom fan to a hole in the room can exhaust enough air. Here's some info on ventilation for your grow room. You don't have to have a carbon filter if smell is not an issue.

Those two lights are enough, but HPS lights are much more efficient than CFLs. You will get more light for every watt of electricity you use. Yes, HPS gives off more heat but if you are exhausting air it shouldn't be a problem. Are you sure you have 300 watt CFLs? I didn't know there was any bigger than 200, maybe 250. A 250 watt HPS should you plenty of light for a room of that size. Here's some info on lighting.

If you want to save money then don't buy the tent! It is only a couple of inches smaller than your actual space. You can buy enough reflective mylar sheeting to cover your room for 4 pounds. You said that you smoke about 2 or 3 ounces a month, if I were you I'd set up the perfect grow room to begin with, you will easily get your money back.

I'd recommend getting a 250watt HPS, an extractor/inline fan with some ducting and building your room with mylar instead of buying a tent.

If you are growing autoflowering strains the HPS will do for the whole cycle if you want, but you can add some small blue spectrum CFLs or replace the HPS with a 200 watt blue spectrum bulb for the first week or two, because vegging plants grow better with blueish light. You could buy a MH setup, but if you think that's too expensive just get the blue CFLs. Some digital ballasts allow you to use either HPS or MH bulbs, but they are much more expensive than magnetic ballasts.

If you still want to use CFL for the whole grow you will get enough light from about 300 watts of CFL.

Hey,

First of thank you for your quick response.

The reason I want to get a tent is because I can't make any physical changes to the closet, so installing ventilation would be an issue if I can't vent it out of the room, so to overcome this I thought of buying a tent, at least I can vent from the tent out into the closet, then have the door (of the build in closet) slighlty open to have the ducting come out of.. so that should ventiltate the tent just fine for the small grow I am planning?

I have now purcahsed the following:

Tent: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
Extractor: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
INtake: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
light for flowering: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
light for veg: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
hygrometer: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Is there anything else you think i should get?

Do you think the above will give me a decent grow?

The reason I have gone for CFLs are:

1) THey are cheap to run, produce hardly any heat and can touch the plants, so can penetrate canopies etc)
2) I don't think I can run a HID/MH in the small space I have for two reasons, heat and space.. yes i have ventilation, but im going to loose a lot of space because the distance from the bulb to plant etc..

So for the first grow I think i'll stick to CFLs, see what they produce, if im not happy then look to other ideas?

Do you think this is acceptable?

I am new to all this i've grown outdoors before just not indoors.. are there anything else i should consider?

I have purchased the following seeds:

World of Seeds Afghan Kush Ryder Autoflowering Feminized
Samsara Seeds El Alquimista Feminized (these came free)

I plan to do a soil grow first too if thats any help :)

Anyway, thank you for your reply, any feedback / opionons / advice welcome :-)

oh another question i forgot to ask.. looking at the above lights i have bought, 1 300w red and 1 300w blue, to my understanding blue is better for veg with its 65000k and red for flowering with its 27000k right?

As I Plan to use autoflowering strain, I have some options:

1) use blue light for first 2 - 4 weeks, then the red one from there till harvest?
2) have them both full throttle until harvest?

I am leaning towards having both red and blue on 18/6 until they harvest as i guess two is better than one :)

What are your thoughts?

Hi,

If you only have a 2ft x 2ft area you won't need to run both lights together, one is enough. That's the first I've seen of a 300 watt CFL. I have a 200 myself and I like it. You should use the 6500k for veg and the 2700k for flowering. It doesn't say what the lumen output is for the 300watt bulbs, I'll assume it's about 18,000 lumens. Running both of them would give you 36,000 lumens and use 600 watts of power. A 250 watt HPS gives out about 35,000 lumens and only uses the 250 watts. A 250 watt HPS doesn't need to be placed that far away from plants. If your house isn't too warm you can place it 6-10 inches above your plants. Plus, one HPS will take up a lot less room than 2 large CFLs. CFLs are good, but you can see in this case you will be using over twice the amount of power to get the same result. CFL have the benefit of being able to place them an inch or two from your canopy, but they do not penetrate the canopy as well as HID lights. But like you said, try it out and see what you think. You have more than enough light with the CFL anyway. You should have between 3,000 and 5,000 lumens per square foot, and you will have 4,500 with just one of those monster CFLs.

The tent looks good, I have a dark room tent myself and it's still going strong.

The extractor fan doesn't give a CFM or CMH rating, make sure the intake fan is less powerful than the extractor, or the carbon filter won't work. If the intake is too powerful, the smell will escape through the intake. The ventilation setup you will have looks excellent, especially for a room of that size. Just make sure the air in the room is fresh, the plants can use a lot of CO2, especially with that much lighting.

Soil growing is good, and it's harder to make a mistake. It looks like you have a good setup and I think it will go well for you. I've never grown autoflowering strains, I hope it goes well for you :D

Hey,

Thanks again for the quick reply :-)

OK excellent, I will use the blue for 2 - 3 weeks or at least until I see signs of sex (I read about 2-3 weeks with autoflowering strains). Then I will switch to the red light for the rest of the time.

I do have 2 x 400watt HIDs but the problem with these is the ballasts are built into the reflector box, so the heat of those would be too much for a small space. I will defintiley look into getting a 250watt HID for the next grow then if you think that the setup can handle it, i think i would have to SCROG it or LFT it to get anywhere with a HID In that space. We shall see :-)

Good point, I had not thought about that regarding the extactor fan/intake fan! Thank you for pointing this out to me, I will find out the power on both and report back :-)

I Will also keep you posted, when everything arrives I Will take continuous pictures throughout so we can see how it goes.. I would love to see any pics of your grow under the 250 CFL to see what I can expect :-)

Again thanks for your advice!

OH heck, just thought of something.. I have this nice big oscillating fan here that I was planning to use, however, how the heck will i fit an oscillating fan in the grow space i have, i have order some 3 litre pots (just big enough for 2 months growth i think), and i plan to have at least 6 pots in the room? Hmmm, how can i get a fan in there, can this space do without? I would of thjought it would need one.. any opinions, ideas?

Hi again, no problem :)

You might have to wait a little more than the advertised 2-3 weeks for flowering, so I've heard from others who grew autos anyway.

Yeah those 400 HIDs with the built in ballasts will definitely give off too much heat in a space that small. You have plenty of light with the 300watt cfl, the 250 HPS would slightly reduce your bill but because of the heat you will probably end up sticking with the CFL.

You can hang the fan on the wall, but you shouldn't need a fan. I think you will have enough air movement within your room. You should worry more about making sure there is always fresh air going into the room. With an intake at ground level and exhaust at the top the plants should get enough air.

I flower with a HPS light because I have a 3ft x 3ft area which needs more light. I veg with a blue CFL though, 200 watt, and it works really well. It's not really the bulb that matters, more so the lumens. The 200 watt CFL (12,000 lumens) would give me 1300 lumens per square foot in my flowering room which really isn't enough. I haven't got a camera unfortunately, but you can expect some big buds. In my opinion fresh air flow and light are the two most important things, and you have plenty of light and you should have plenty of air :D

Awesome thanks for the encouring advice! :)

I have had an answer back regarding the intake fan:

"Hi there it will push 130m'3/hr at 2800rpm"

THe exhaust fan i have is here: Amazon.com: Inline Fan TT100 4" 115CFM 2 Speed: Kitchen & Dining - the specs listed are:

115CFM 2 Speed

You have me a little concerned about the power ration between the intake and exhaust system i bought.. can you confirm with the information above that they will be sufficent and work together well?

Or do you need more info, just let me know :)

Thanks again!

130CMH is 76CFM. So if the intake is 76CFM and the exhaust is 115CFM then it should be fine. Carbon filters and lots of ducting can slow air flow. So if you have a lot of ducting you might need a more powerful exhaust fan.

hey i have been thinking abvout the exhaust/carbon filter/intake filter setup in my small space.

Do you see any issues with me having the exhaust fan and carbon filter outside the grow tent but inside the cupboard? that way i can maximize the grow space and just have the ducting running into the grow tent through the holes? Is this feasible or should i have the exhaust fan and carbon filter inside the grow tent?

also, do about the power im worried now as i dont want it to work backwards lol how can i be sure the exhaust fan is running more powerful than the intake when its all setup? is there a way to make the ijntake fan run alittle less powerful so as to not screw this up?

What would you do in my situation here?


Thanks in advance.. :)

It should be fine. Unless you have lots of ducting you won't have a problem. You can put the filter outside, just try to minimise the amount of ducting you have to use.

Awesome, thank you :-)

One last question, I wired up the exhaust fan/carbon filter etc, to see if it worked.. and it does great :-) Problem is, it sounds like an aircraft in my closet.. I have to sleep in this room lol and didn't think about the noise it would make. Now I am thinking about how best to soundproof the room/closet that the grow tent is in... do you have any ideas how i can do this successfully? :)

thanks again!

You can surround the noisy parts with foam or old clothes or a towel or something, this will help with the vibrations. If you google it there are lots of people who have different ideas on how to silence a fan.

Also, plants don't need any CO2 when the lights are off. If you are only venting to keep a supply of CO2 then you can turn it off during the night. If you have high humidity you might have to leave it on during flowering to stop mould from growing on your buds, but if humidity or temperature is not a problem for you then once the lights go off the fans can go off.

OK so maybe i'll do an 18/6 light cycle on these auto flowering seeds.. and keep everything off for those 6 hours, still need to dampen the sounds though. Hopefully when its all installed i can wedge towels/clothes in between the closet walls and the grow tent to dampen the sound.. will be a challenge ! :)

thanks again

Hey,

So I have set the grow tent up now in the closet and everything is up and running except no plants in there.

I have left the light on 24/7, with the extraction and intake running full power (not that i can control the power). I places the hygrometer in there and left it for a 24 hour period.

Just checked the hygrometer in the room and the temps are:

85.6 degrees farenheit temperature in the grow room and

48% relative humidity.

Now from what i've read the perfect temperature is 70 - 75 degrees fahrenheit.. and mines 10 degrees more than that, and I know anything above 90 is BAD! :-(

So I am worried that when i put the plants in the room the temp is going to go up a little bit and possibly RH go up to. So, RH is at an acceptable level... what can I do about the temperature, i've tried moving the ducting/exhuast etc around, no difference, i've opened up the vents and all flaps on the tent, no difference.

I currently have the exhaust fan exhausting to the top of the tent, and intake comming in from the bottom of the tent.. i don't know what else i can do to bring the temps down?

I am running one 300wat cfl as described in my earlier posts...

so onto the questions:

1) what can i do to bring temps down a bit?
2) is the temp i currently have really that bad? can i successfully grow in it?


Some info, the external closet door is closed MOST of the time as to not avoid attention. HOwever if i open it - it drops tempt by 1 or 2 degrees but it stays in the 80's.. i can't make any physical reconstructions to the closet/house to vent externally out of the closet because its rented accomodation....

so what are some tricks of the trade to bring temps down? please help?

thanks in advance!

Hi,

I think 85 will do, try to keep the door open as much as possible, but once it doesn't go much higher than 85 it should be fine. The only way I can think of reducing the temp is to somehow get cool air from outside or exhaust the warm air to somewhere else.

Even though 85 is fine, you might have high humidity levels. It's fine throughout vegging but for the last couple of weeks of flowering you might want to keep humidity under 40% to stop mould growing on your buds if they are really thick.

All I can suggest is leaving the door open as often as you can or finding a way to get fresh air into your room. A dehumidifier or air conditioner would work but it really isn't worth it for a small grow space. Try it out and see how it goes. In my opinion your only real problem is the high humidity for the last couple of weeks of flowering.70-80% humidity and temps of 80-85 shouldn't be a problem the rest of the time.

Hey,

OK, so the temp has leveled to 82.5 since i've exhuasted to the cupboard above and im going to rip up a floorboard in the grow tent cupboard and intake from underneath the floorboards hopefully this will help more.

I will leave the doors open as much as i can. The humidity is currently stable at 31% is this OK? baring in mind i've got no plants in there yet so I assume that will rise due to plants drinking water etc.. if not i can always place a bowl of water high up so that i can bring it up to 40%?

Well a couple of the seeds have germinated so im tempted to pot them tonight or tomorrow (as i still need to intake from under the floor boards, might leave it till tomorrow to do).

Will keep you posted as I am growing, may start a diary to keep track of it :-)

Thanks again.

You will have to measure the humidity when you have larger plants in the room. By the time they are a foot tall you will probably have a much different humidity reading. 90-100% is best for small seedlings, 70-80% for vegging and under 40% for late flowering. The most important one is to keep humidity down during the end of flowering. If you have a different humidity level for vegging they will still grow. High humidity for the first week or two stops the seedlings from drying out, which can happen easily if the lights are close to the canopy, and it will stunt growth for a few days/weeks. A plastic dome of some sort is good for babies. Higher temps usually lower relative humidity and vise versa.

And good luck :)

Hey,

OK cool.. got all my babies in there now.. all 9 :-) 3 afghan kush ryders and 5 g13 labs pineapple express.

What are some good ways to control humidity then? How can I keep it low and how can I keep it high for the different phases? I currently placed a bowl of water in there to try and higher them RH for the seedlings.. as its at 37% now.

I am going to go and buy a couple of clip on fans probably two of them to go ont he sides of the tent.. will take pictures later and start a grow diary thread so keep your eyes peeled :)

Thanks again!

Hi,

Usually increasing air flow will reduce humidity and vise versa. If you have a speed controller for your fans then you can change the speed, or you can use a timer to turn them on and off every couple of minutes. For little seedlings use a plastic dome for the first few days. Usually when they get bigger you will be trying to reduce humidity, not increase it. The bowl of water idea is good for increasing humidity.

Also, relative humidity is the percentage of water vapour in the air out of the maximum amount of water vapour it can actually hold. The maximum amount of vapour the air can hold at a particular time is called the saturation point. The saturation point will change depending on temperature. Hotter temps will increase the saturation point and colder temps will lower it. So, if you increase temperature, you increase the saturation point, which lowers relative humidity (if the level of water vapour remains the same).

I hope this helps. Look forward to seeing your grow :)

Hey,

I just purchased two fans 6" that clip on the side of the grow tent made for the jardins but will do mine just fine :-) They have two speeds. I plan to use them on the canopy and to help move air around the room. I've noticed since i've put the plants in that humidity has risen which is good.. now its making me think ahead when I need to start bringing it back down.. which might not be so easy. Do you think buying a compact dehumidifier off ebay will do the trick or is this not a good idea? So when i need to bring it down for flower/veg i can use one of those? or is that not a good way?

Thanks!

Dehumidifiers are fine, but you might not need one. Wait and see what happens, if by early to mid flowering you can't control the humidity then invest in one. Don't expect your first grow to be amazing anyway, you will learn so much from it and your second will be much better. I found that with my first few grows the harvest got much bigger each time.

Humidity should be kept below 40% towards the end of flowering, but if you don't have massive, dense buds then it's okay for it to be a little higher. Autoflowering strains tend to have smaller buds, so if humidity is at 50-60% and there's no mould developing then you should be all right. By the end of your grow you will be able to look back and decide what changes you should make for your second grow.

Below is a how-to for AutoFlowers. (copied from another site) Although the strains differ a bit, this should help.

Check the Dealing with heat issues thread in my signature. Turn on your lights for a few hours as if the plants were in there, and see what your temps do as a result. (a dry-run)
Passive intake (not fan-forced) is fine, but make sure to exhaust the humidity and heat.


OFFICIAL LOWRYDER GROW GUIDE - written by the Joint doctor

Preferred growing methods

Indoors, Lowryder performs very well in soil mix (pots or beds) or in soil-less systems, where it can be cultivated from seed to bud in two months â?? 18 hours of light per day is recommended all the way through. Switching light cycles down to 12 hours may diminish yields and shorten the already-short life cycle slightly. Because Lowryderâ??s life cycle is so brief, cloning becomes impracticable, so only plants from seed are grown. By default, Lowryder is a great choice for sea-of-green.

Because flowering plants and seedlings can be maintained in the same room, Lowryder presents new possibilities for the small to medium home grower, including â??staggeringâ?� your indoor harvest. A true continuous harvest system may be achieved by planting new plants periodically to replace the ones that have been harvested. This ensures that a grow
room is always full and always producing fresh bud, and one never has too much work at once. Click here to learn more about the Joint Doctorâ??s â??1-2-3â?� continuous harvest method.

For best results, place jiffy pellet or plant directly into 1-2 gal.pots. Alternatively, start in 4-inch peat pots, then place
rootbound females into a plant bed after sexing (at approx. 17-20 days) â?? this may result in smaller plants than the first method. Grown under a 12 to 24 hour/daylight cycle from start to finish. I recommend 18 hours per day; this can be decreased to 16 after the first month with no loss of yield.


Outdoors: sow directly into soil after soaking, in 2 gal. pots or plant beds. New stands of Lowryder can be planted up until late summer, to ensure a continuous harvest outdoors. Avoid transplanting if you can, but do so if plants become rootbound. Rogue (remove) males at three weeks.


Growth Factors

Lowryder is extremely versatile in that it can be cultivated in virtually any climate or grow environment. In fact, it has pushed the envelope of growing, enabling early harvests in unlikely places like Finland, the North West Territories, and other northern, short-season, or high altitude areas. It is also well-adapted to backyard gardens, windowsills and patios where plants can be easily concealed because of their tiny size.

Nothing will mature earlier or faster than Lowryder! When other varieties have barely begun flowering, Lowryder outdoor growers are kicking up their feet and already enjoying their fresh harvests.

Characteristics

Lowryder virtually does away with the vegetative growth stage: it passes almost immediately from the seedling stage to the flowering period. To our knowledge, Lowryder has the shortest known life cycle and height in the cannabis species.
Male plants may be identified as such after approx. 17-20 days, while females show themselves a couple days later. Plants will even flower under a continuous light regime.

Lowryder females usually grow no taller than 16-20 inches. 12-16 inches is typical. Light intensity, pot size, and proper pH all play an important role in determining the size of plants at maturity â?? the better the conditions, the bigger the yield. Plants produce one main cola, although when they receive adequate light, lower nodes branch out profusely.

Yield and height are dependent on obvious growth factors. For example, plants kept in small peat cups on a windowsill may yield as little as 1 g. and grow no taller than 6 inches, with no branching whatsoever; while a plant in a 4-gallon container under high-intensity lighting and good cultivation methods, can turn into a profusely branched, two-foot wide 45-gram bud monster.


Fertilizer: During the first two weeks of growth, Lowryder should be weekly light feedings of a â??growâ?� type nutrient solution, with micronutrients. When plants pass into full flower, they should be started on a â??bloomâ?� regime for weeks 4 through 6. Mycorise-type biological amendments (root stimulators) seem to increase growth significantly.

Average flowering time
Indoors: 40-45 days (after a 15-20 day seedling stage)
Outdoors: ripens approx. 60 days after seed is sown.
Note: 100% of plants display the auto-flowering genotype.

AVERAGE HEIGHT
12 inches. Minimum: 5 inches, maximum 16 inches (very light-dependent, with slight phenotype variations).

YIELD
Depending on light and other factors, Lowryder yields up to 45 g â?? one report even claims 96 g for one exceptional plant under hydroponics. Extremely light-dependent in terms of yield. Without adequate conditions, plants may stay extremely small, almost comically so â?? but still produce a decent smoke.

Buds are compactand close-quartered, slightly irregular and variable, with high bud/leaf ratio. Thick pistils, with orange coloration, and medium-sized, individual calyxes. Tends to be top-heavy indoors. Typically, budding sites start very close to the ground.

High is uplifting, surprisingly strong. Well-rounded. Best suited for outdoor activities. Smoke is smooth with pleasant, earthy undertones. Smell is not overpowering. Unique flavor, with echoes of NL and Williamâ??s Wonder in the bouquet.

On nutes:

I get alot of requests for more info on nutrient needs for Lowryder. This is a hard question to answer as it depends how much money you want to shell out for nutrient products.

I get Advanced Nutrient products (many say the best) at a discount and I have adapted their formula for my own use. Advanced Nutrients provides a complete program for an 8-week grow and has a guide for different growing mediums.

For the first two weeks, I use what they recommend for seedlings.

Then I use the Micro 2+ Light Feeding program for the rest of their life cycle. I usually skip week 3 and 5 to bring it down to a 6 week program which I begin as soon as LRs are sexed.

I know it sounds complicated. Obviously all this is not needed.

As a rule of thumb, treat Lowryders like seedlings for the first 2-3 weeks, then switch them onto a light bloom program. So, you feed them a seedling/transplanting formula the first 2 weeks, then switch to a bloom fertilizer with something like a 5-10-5 or 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K.

Give them a feeding of bloom fertilizer every week on weeks 3,4,5,6. Just pH-balanced water on week 7. Flushing solution on week 8.

...or for organic freaks, just plant into organic soil mix with bat guano mixed in... and put away the calculator... .

Awesome, thank you both for your input. I have started a grow guide, check it out: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...g-strains.html :-)

link is broken

Yeah I Just realised this, the administrator deleted the wrong damn post! I can't believe it and left the old one that I asked him to delete there...

do you have any idea how you delete your threads so i can start again? Can't believe the admin deleted the wrong one! :(

Working now :-)