STOP THE NUTES

I have just been lurking now and then, kind of lost my interest in this place when it became more oriented to recreational use than medical, but, as I peruse I note one common issue..a.......yellowing

Folks you are giving your plants way too many nutes, the wrong potting soil mixes, and don't let nature work for itself.

You have to have quality stock to grow.....bagseed? well if you get lucky.

You don't need a bunch of nutes....just perfect potting mix and monthly repotting to "fertilize" the plant. Potting mixes are they key. They must be buffered properly, hold enough moisture without holding too much, and have been composted to kill any other organisms including weeds.

This is all simple basic stuff. Not all potting mixes are the same, for example look at how many different combos of Miracle Gro is out there. Some high in N, some high in K&P and not all are good for cannabis. In early life (veg) cannabis likes N. After about 3 weeks, maybe 4 in flower, N has no effect on the plant. It is putting everything into flowering and it wants K and P in the right amounts. Too much and the plant can turn orange, more likely yellow, very fast.

Just look through all the "my leaves are yellow" threads. Most all have been nuted to almost non-existence. Light, water (not RO or distilled you need the micro-nutes) and air circulation and enough of each, but not too much. Most potting mixes for tomatoes will be good for cannabis, but cannabis can not take as much N as tomatoes.

Not RO or Distilled??? Well, again, to each his own.... Totally agree about the needing micro nutes....

I've been noticing these "help yellowing leaves" threads too and not all of them are from over ferting, some are perfectly fine plants that have just aged to the point to where N starts to decrease in the lower fan leaves.... Some people think that the leaves should stay green the whole way through....not so....

You mentioned that the potting mix is the key for you.... Well it's the nute mix that is key for me.... I use a soil that will not hold enough nutes throughout the whole grow on purpose, so I can control the N-P-K, micro nute, boosters and vitamin levels....but that's just me....I'm a hydro grower stuck in soil, for now, so if you ask me, being able to manipulate the levels of each nute is waaaaaaaaay better than having a standard mix that your plants will just feed off of when necessary.....just my opinion, not trying to start anything....

Have a good one washwonder....

CGI::::::

Since I know WW is an experienced soil grower that know's his shit, I think that if I were a newbie...I'd be more inclined to listen to his insights, rather than listen to "a hydro grower stuck in soil". I doubt he is referring to every single "yellow leaf" post, but more likely than not, he's referring to a growing percentage of overfert issues. Perhaps instead of arguing his insight, you take his insight to heart when "fixing" other gardeners plant problems. Quantity of nutes needed is determined by soil used, water ph, proper organics in the soil. The nutrients should be used kinda like ammendments. (sparingly at most) Would you defend the addition of Miracle Grow All Purpose, when in Miracle Grow 6 month...just because the label says to feed every two weeks...or would you instinctively know not to over-do the liquid ferts while in THAT soil...?

But I am of the same opinion about CanCom. Since this has transitioned over to a teenage recreational cannabis site, the quality of the posts and responders has fallen-off dramitically.

I tend to agree that people try to over think this more then they should, myself included to begin with.

Now on my third grow I've learned some lessons and I'm still learning. My current potting soil mix should have had more sphagnum moss mixed in to retain more water, on these hot days I'm watering every single day and the soil is not retaining enough water. I can probably make it one full day but I wouldn't push my luck beyond that. I have trays under most of my containters now so that should help. I think I've been underfeeding my plants but after killing 6 nearly finished plants once I'm extra cautious.

For starters I absolutely agree they should keep it as simple as possible.

I used to think that distilled was the way to go so I could "control" what my plants were intaking, but after reading what a lot of the "old-timers" were saying I made the switch to tap. Could not be happier. Saves me money and my plants r tons healthier. As far as using only potting mixes as ur nutes I have a question. Do u transplant during flower? If so does the boost in N that ffof provides not slow down the flowering process? I believe that u know ur shit and love reading ur post. I've always had this question tho. Personally I use the ff line of nutes (liquids) but I watch my plants. My last batch did not take to nutes very well so they pretty much only got molasses, but the og cross i'm growing now is a nute whore. I guess if u have strains respond to the way u grow then great. I just think it is really a plant by plant kind of thing. I also think a lot of the problems that we r seeing is a product of laziness. Seems like no one reads anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Since I know WW is an experienced soil grower that know's his shit, I think that if I were a newbie...I'd be more inclined to listen to his insights, rather than listen to "a hydro grower stuck in soil". I doubt he is referring to every single "yellow leaf" post, but more likely than not, he's referring to a growing percentage of overfert issues. Perhaps instead of arguing his insight, you take his insight to heart when "fixing" other gardeners plant problems. Quantity of nutes needed is determined by soil used, water ph, proper organics in the soil. The nutrients should be used kinda like ammendments. (sparingly at most) Would you defend the addition of Miracle Grow All Purpose, when in Miracle Grow 6 month...just because the label says to feed every two weeks...or would you instinctively know not to over-do the liquid ferts while in THAT soil...?

But I am of the same opinion about CanCom. Since this has transitioned over to a teenage recreational cannabis site, the quality of the posts and responders has fallen-off dramitically.

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Yeah, if I were a newbie, I'd be inclined too....

And I wouldn't use miracle grow, that's just me, so I wouldn't recommend it because I know that the fert level is too high to begin supplementing with additional nutes for.....well sh*t, the plant will tell you when it needs additional if using MG....which is why I don't use it....

I don't attempt to help anyone with any problem unless I might have some solid input for them....and I think I made it pretty clear in my earlier post that I was simply stating my opinion and not trying to start any type of argument....

RT & WW, I know you two know what you're doing and have had a long relationship here on cancom....and similar growing methods.... I just returned here a few months ago and am really not trying to step on anyones toes or misguide people.... I'm just here to provide another outlook on nutes, the way I use them....and not trying to say my method is better than anyone elses, just giving a different view on the matter.... It's just one mans opinion, nothing more, nothing less....

CGI::::::

....and after reading the original starting post by WW again, I can see how what I wrote can throw off a newbie, my bad newbies....

No animosity, just keeping things real.

The Miracle Grow example was simply...an example.

Overdosing with the nutrients and additives can and will cause lock-out as the overdose kills (burns) the root structure. Ph fluctuations are a common issue with overdosing, too.

Having spent a small fortune the past decade or so, I've learned (personal experience and the experience of other veteran growers) that the more you spend on your nutrients, ammendments and additives, the more things can and will go wrong. This isn't because the nutrients are sub-par...but those that think you need all that crap in your pot, are more likely to use all that crap without concern for the plant's needs. Keep in mind...the plant can't see that WAY COOL label the manufacturer provided on the bottle(s) nor does it care about catchy product names. (don't fall for marketing hype)

Now, if someone's life centered around growing the "best buds in the world", then I can perhaps see the desire to expend any and all resources doing just that. Ego often costs more. But it doesn't make much sense spending 10x what it should cost you for quality buds, and getting a negligible gain for the expense, extra work and the headaches.

These "server busy" notices are getting to be more than I'm willing to deal with. Sucks spending half an hour on a post, just to lose it all due to lack of proper maintenance or insufficient bandwidth or whatever. If the intent is to get rid of the old timers...your plan is succeeding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Purple Daddy

I tend to agree that people try to over think this more then they should, myself included to begin with.

Now on my third grow I've learned some lessons and I'm still learning. My current potting soil mix should have had more sphagnum moss mixed in to retain more water, on these hot days I'm watering every single day and the soil is not retaining enough water. I can probably make it one full day but I wouldn't push my luck beyond that. I have trays under most of my containters now so that should help. I think I've been underfeeding my plants but after killing 6 nearly finished plants once I'm extra cautious.

For starters I absolutely agree they should keep it as simple as possible.

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anymore i just keep it simple. there is too much cost involved in 50 different kinds of nutes and boosters, additives etc. ive got roughly a 1000+ under my belt with much being experimetation and the thing is it was all just as good when i didnt know all that much. i do prefer to keep a small amount of n in flower, i like soil best, and i keep notes, dates, growth rates, the whole shabangabang. so for new growers i always suggest keeping it simple and not trying be the pro they want be. ive tried all kinds of products that make claims and everything turned out the same, end result wasted money. so, yeah it is overthought a lot of times but this is the learning curve and even at its simplest you will find new challenges:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

No animosity, just keeping things real.

The Miracle Grow example was simply...an example.

Overdosing with the nutrients and additives can and will cause lock-out as the overdose kills (burns) the root structure. Ph fluctuations are a common issue with overdosing, too.

Having spent a small fortune the past decade or so, I've learned (personal experience and the experience of other veteran growers) that the more you spend on your nutrients, ammendments and additives, the more things can and will go wrong. This isn't because the nutrients are sub-par...but those that think you need all that crap in your pot, are more likely to use all that crap without concern for the plant's needs. Keep in mind...the plant can't see that WAY COOL label the manufacturer provided on the bottle(s) nor does it care about catchy product names. (don't fall for marketing hype)

Now, if someone's life centered around growing the "best buds in the world", then I can perhaps see the desire to expend any and all resources doing just that. Ego often costs more. But it doesn't make much sense spending 10x what it should cost you for quality buds, and getting a negligible gain for the expense, extra work and the headaches.

These "server busy" notices are getting to be more than I'm willing to deal with. Sucks spending half an hour on a post, just to lose it all due to lack of proper maintenance or insufficient bandwidth or whatever. If the intent is to get rid of the old timers...your plan is succeeding.

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2nd, 3rd and 4th paragragh...total agreement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Treez81

I used to think that distilled was the way to go so I could "control" what my plants were intaking, but after reading what a lot of the "old-timers" were saying I made the switch to tap. Could not be happier. Saves me money and my plants r tons healthier. As far as using only potting mixes as ur nutes I have a question. Do u transplant during flower? If so does the boost in N that ffof provides not slow down the flowering process? I believe that u know ur shit and love reading ur post. I've always had this question tho. Personally I use the ff line of nutes (liquids) but I watch my plants. My last batch did not take to nutes very well so they pretty much only got molasses, but the og cross i'm growing now is a nute whore. I guess if u have strains respond to the way u grow then great. I just think it is really a plant by plant kind of thing. I also think a lot of the problems that we r seeing is a product of laziness. Seems like no one reads anymore.

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Last transplant is 1 week into flower.

WW.....good thread.....I too have been mostly a lurker here for some time now....the quality of the posts has really dropped off. I switched to totally organic growing in early January and have had great success.....the yield is down about 10%, but the quality is greatly improved. Now I am just tweeking my room to see if I can get the yield up with the strains that I am growing. I have tried 3 or 4 soil blends....and here is what I like best at this point.....Royal Gold....basement mix....has everything you need to grow right in the bag....and if you look around....should be be able to purchase for about 11 bucks a bag....when you can not find that.....I use happy frog.....same thing...its a little heaver mix....but still have good dranage.....I then use Sea Kelp liquid, fish emulsion, batt guanno powder, glacier rock dust, and mollasses with ph-ed water....nothing else.......

Keep up the posts.....there are still experienced growers lurking...

Also......I flower in 1 gallon grow bags for 2 weeks then transplant to 3 gallon grow bags.....mostly I do this because of a space issue....but the last few grows it has worked nicely.

I veg....for 3 to 4 weeks....starting in cups then.....into larger cups....then into to 1 gallon bags.....hope this helps

as a new guy on the block , all i can say is ty to the guys who have spent the time answering my questions , iv learnt in this short time on this site that every grow if different and personal , already iv made big mistakes and have been pointed in the right direction by some of the lads , and will welcome as much feedback good or bad as possible .
on topic , after reading untill my eyes bleed , first thing i noticed from alot of replys was " do not over feed " , it has been said on this site more times then it should have to be , and it is always on my mind not to over feed with neuts ,

As a new grower myself, I find the advice and comments from the more experienced growers extremely helpful. I did notice, however, that the posts from a little ways back have more of the "scientific" approaches, rather than the "yo dawg, u b ovr watering." (That was painful just re-enacting that) I wish that I would have joined this site earlier so I could have formed a friendship with the more experienced and weathered warriors out there. That being said, I do find the constant "downtime" on the server's side to be extremely frustrating, especially when I see that a thread that I started to try and get some ideas on how to solve a problem has a new post. Well, now with all that off my chest, I think I'll go and sing to my babies. G'day ladies and gentlemen.