First Indoor Grow - Flash Cobra and Short Stuff #1

My growing experience consists a few outdoor grows that date back to the time when we didn't even know to cull the males. LOL I was never very scientific about it but we always managed to get a reasonable yield... I had one crop that actually survived a class 4 hurricane. We just laid the pots down. We took some losses, of course, but enough of the crop survived to make us very grateful.

I'd like to thank all the knowledgeable people who unselfishly offer their advice and access to their expertise. I have spent a lot of time on this site (and others) to prepare for this. Again, thank you.

One of the things about this grow that is a bit stressful is trying to baby these seeds during early stages. My past approach was almost polar opposite: Plant plenty of seeds and see which ones survive limited care. So, I'm adjusting. :thumbsup:

Today is the ninth day since I first placed the seeds for germination. Here goes:

Ordered seeds from Attitude 03/04 rec'd 30/21

6ea Short Stuff Seeds "#1", 10ea Flash Seeds "Cobra" (Only ordered 8 but was sent 10) - Both 60day auto

Lighting, seedlings: 2ea F20T12 6500K fluorescent tubes

Lighting, grow: 400w HPS (enhanced blue spectrum)

Lighting, schedule: 24/0

Grow area: 22"D x 47W" x 60"H

Seedling medium: Jiffy Mix (peat, pearlite, vermiculite... no nutes)

Growing medium: Miracle grow regular (not moisture control) 6mo. time-release nutes (will integrate at first pot change). Hopefully, it will work adequately for a 60 day grow.

Regarding mediums: I looked diligently for FFOF and it is not available in my area. The only soil less mix I could find (Pro Mix) was only available from the vendor in 40lb bales. So, since I have seen people get good results with MG when used properly, I selected it because it is very available.

Projected pot cycle: seedling tray to 3" square to 6" smart pot (1gal) - change
as root systems outgrow pots.

Expectations: 80% germination = 13, 50% female = 6-7, 20g per = 120g - 140g total = 4oz - 5oz total

3/23: * morning... 11 of 16 germinated in towel and planted (6 ss1 and 5 cobra).
* afternoon... 4 more cobra germinated and planted.

3/24: * morning... 5 broke ground (3 ss1 and 2 cobra). All germinated and planted except one cobra.

3/25: * morning... 3 more broke ground (1 ss1 and 2 cobra). One cobra still not geminated. Started using oscillating fan.

3/26: * morning... 1 more broke (cobra) One cobra still not geminated. Currently, there are 4)ss1 plants and 5)cobras. Have been watering very sparingly with dropper as needed. Today, will increase water amount slightly.
*afternoon... 4 more broke (1 ss1 and 3 cobra).

3/27: *morning... 1 cobra broke. Last cobra germinated and planted. Plants look generally healthy at this early stage. Fluorescent tubes (which are cool to the touch) are placed within 1" of plant tops.

3/28: *morning... 1 cobra broke. Total broken ground: 5 ss1, 9 cobra. One of each has not broken ground yet.

3/30: *morning... Last two germinated seeds still have not broken ground. Have one cobra seedling that has been yellow since it broke ground. The plant looks healthy, otherwise. Leaving it alone for now to see how it does. Have been very careful not to overwater and there are no nutes in the growing medium I am using for seedlings. Do not know what water ph level is.

3/31: Well, it has been a week since the first seeds broke ground. No change today from yesterday... still have two germinated seeds that have not broken ground. The seedlings look okay. The new growth on the yellow plant looks green but it's a little early yet. Not too much stretching so far. Have the lights (T-12's) so close they are touching some of the taller plants with no apparent harm.

04/01: Two of the ss1's have also begun to yellow. Nothing too scary but still... The two seeds that did not sprout with the others have still not sprouted and I'm not optimistic. The pet store was out of pH testers when I went by last week. They got some in and I bought one. Checked the water I'm using (tap) and the pH was very high... high 7's at least. The test wouldn't go any higher. I put some pH "down" in, and got the pH to the mid 6's. I have only watered once with the proper ph water. We'll see what happens.

I have a couple pics of the seedlings but, like so many others I've seen, I can't figure out how to upload them. I'll look for some instructions on the site.

I've been looking at some of the grow logs... It may be a good thing I can't post pics yet. LOL My babies are looking kinda puny compared to many I've seen. Oh well, all I can do is my best. I'll be grateful just to survive this first one. :cool:

I've pretty much abandoned all hope for the two seeds that didn't break ground. I turned up the HPS this am and watered the plants. Overall the plants from the Flash Cobra seeds look much healthier. All five of the Short Stuff #1 plants are having some sort of difficulty.

I am attempting to get enough posts to upload pics. Anybody need a cheerleader? :pimp:

Just wanted to pop in and say welcome :) I've not heard of Flash Cobra or Short Stuff so I'd love to follow along and see how they go. Its always extra nice for me when logs start with seedlings and you can see the whole process from beginning to a hopefully happy finish. Love to see pics when your able to.

Good to have you aboard!

Please keep in mind, this is my first indoor grow and this experience is all new to me. :D

Turning up the HPS made a more drastic change in the environment than I was expecting. I don't have a great set-up to begin with. I'm doing it in a closet that I'm still using for clothing. LOL Hopefully, it will at least be adequate.

Back to the change in environment... My temp went from 75 to 90 but I've been able to get that down to 80, which is probably okay. My humidity went from 55% to 45%. If someone in the know happens to drop by after I've posted this, please let me know if this is a problem that needs to be attended to. I am aware that 45% is on the low side. Also, anyone who has a remedy, please advise. (Simpler the better) :stoned:

Have a great day!

hi m8 as for the humidity if you want to try and increase it the cheap way add a bucket/bowl of water to the grow space and if temps are a problem add a bucket/bowl of frozen water :)
you can also mist the area,but be carefull not to soak the leaves as the lights may burn them:mad:
or buy a small humidifier thats what done the trick for me.....:stoned:

cturner: Welcome aboard! I followed your log and noticed the humidifier in one of your pics. I will be extremely pleased if my grow ends close to as well as yours did. Great work!

I really don't know enough to know if the humidity is too low at 45% rh. I understand that 50-60% rh is optimum. So, if 45% is close enough not to cause problems, I lean toward being passive.

Thanks for the advice. If it becomes problematic, I will definitely consider at least one of the options you offered.

pics from yesterday... I know... It ain't pretty.

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Pics! I know... It ain't pretty. :wtf:

These are from today. I didn't mean for the other reply to post... Sorry.

i think the yellowing maybe from the slow nutes,mine done the same every time you water you release nutes they also look a little tired i would definetley do 18/6.....at least there alive ;)
how close are the lights?

Thanks cturner... I appreciate any help I can get. :)

The plants that have yellowed look otherwise healthy... no droop, curl, etc. I added a very, very small amount of coffee grinds to the yellowed plants just to give a very small dose of nitrogen. I know this will drop my ph slightly but I have a little wiggle room there to stay within the acceptable range.

So far as going to 18/6, the lowest amount of "daytime" lighting I've seen recommended by the seed vendors is 20/4 for these 60 day autos. I am at 24/0 now so dropping to 20/4 is something I probably should, and will, do.

The lights (400w HPS) are about 4' from the plants. I plan to move them closer when the plants start to show sex (about 2wks from now) or earlier if they look like they can handle it.

BTW, I re-calibrated my hygrometer and the humidity is stable at 50% temp 80%.

Thanks for dropping by and offering assistance. I appreciate it. Have a great day!

P.S. I should mention, The plants have not progressed to the point of the first pot change. So, the medium they are in now has no nutes... just peat, vermiculite, and pearlite.

Well, I just learned that ph "down" is not the same thing as the ph "decrease" I bought at the pet store when I bought my ph tester. Evidently, it is not good for plants. I've only corrected the ph with this for 2 waterings... maybe it won't kill anything. :mad: So, I guess I'll be using cider vinegar.

I have no idea how much to add, so I'll have to experiment. My tap water is in the high 7's or low 8's. My tester only goes to 7.6 and it is pegging that out. I'll post results.

Another thing I found out early on is that PH down/up for aquariums is also not the best thing to use. I switched to Canna PH down which is designed for plants. My very first, and very nearly deadly, mistake was to also assume that once I'd PH adjusted my water that it would stay adjusted from that point on. It doesn't, it de-acidfies when exposed to the air and the PH goes back up. You may already know that but I thought I'd just mention it in case as I came close to killing mine as quick as anything. Once your able to sort your PH out I think you'll find your little ones will pick up.

Welcome rattlingdags! :)

When I looked at the chemical make-up of the aquarium stuff, I realized it was a salt. So, over time at least, my plants would have been very depressed. :(

Today was a definite learning experience. First, I tried to use organic apple cider vinegar... a table spoon to a gallon. Waaaaayy too much! Then I decided to try some non-organic apple cider vinegar that was diluted to a standard of 5%. This time I tried 1 tea spoon to a gallon. Again, way too much. So, I went to white vinegar, standardized to 5%. This time I mixed 1/4 tea spoon to a gallon. Still, too much.

Though I needed a solution today, I decided to go ahead and order some agricultural phdown online. I went to the GH site to order but I saw a link that said: "where to buy" (or something similar to that). I turns out there is a hydro shop about an hour from here, so I checked it out. Woohoo!! Goodby MG, hello FFOF! And, I was able to get the GH phdown. It's a great little shop, they speak our language, and well stocked with all our favorite gardening supplies.

Back to the ph... I mixed 1ml of phdown to a gallon, you guessed it, still too much. As I write this, I have a gallon of water sitting with one drop of phdown to a gallon. I'll let you know when, and if, I get it in the proper range.

Thanks for the tip about the ph instabibity. I will check it each time before I water.

At this point, the seedlings are the same. No better or worse. Not worried...happy. :thumbsup:

It early in the am. Yesterday was a busy but good day. I just got the ph balanced a few minutes ago.

Update on the phdown situation... This may actually help someone someday. :thumbsup:

My water ph started at 7.6+. My test will only go that high. My goal was to get within the 6.3-6.8 range. Since I didn't have a local vendor that carries agricultural phdown, I initially tried vinegar. After testing at least four different dilution rates, I never got close... starting at a tablespoon per gallon and stepping down in increments to 1/4 teaspoon, as previously mentioned. I would have continued but I found a source for phdown. It is my understanding that, while things around the house like vinegar and baking soda can be used to alter ph levels, neither is as stable or consistent as the phdown.

After trying 1ml of phdown in a gallon of water and overshooting my goal yet again, I went to one drop. Woohoo!! No, I wasn't in the right range. But, this time I didn't go beyond my target. Ultimately, three drops per gallon got me into the range I was looking for.

Hopefully, that will save someone some time someday. Bear in mind, it takes a couple hours to get a reasonably accurate reading. So, each time you adjust, you have to wait two hours to re-test. Pretty time consuming the first time you do it if you're going in blind.

This is the second day since I changed from 24/0 to 20/4. When I watered the plants tonight, some of the troubled ones appear to have new, green growth.

Virtually all the plants having problems are the Short Stuff #1's. They all went yellow on me right out of the gate. ATM, they aren't any worse and they may be recovering. On the other hand, the cobra's have been fine from the beginning. I have one Cobra (out of nine) that yellowed early but it seems to be recovering well.

I might be careful about ordering from that company (Short Stuff Seeds) for now unless you, or someone you trust, has had a good grow using them. It is too early to tell for me.

The PH down is strong stuff alright :)
I wondered if maybe that the Short Stuff's were a bit more delicate/susceptible to the un-PHéd water than the Cobra's, but of course it does make a big difference if you have strong stable genetics to kick off with.

Some plants can react quite differently to situations than other plants whether they be of the same breed or another. My first 3 seedlings were all of the same breed but each reacted differently to the other, the worst affected was actually the oldest and the least affected was the youngest. I expect it was just that the oldest had been getting more of the bad water for longer - they all recovered quickly though.

I saw in Charbuds thread that you asked about the effect of PH on a plants ability to uptake nitrogen. I thought I'd post a link here as it seemed topic appropriate. If you've not already spotted them there's some interesting charts here on the forum that people have shared. The first few posted show the nutrients that get 'locked out' when the soil PH is too high or low. This is a sticky from the Plant Problems section: http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...l-goodies.html

Thanks rattlingdags, I bookmarked the link.

I follow a lot of the grow logs to learn. Plus, I just enjoy it. :D

I'm about the last person that should offer advice on this site, especially for indoor stuff. It just seemed to me that it might be worthwhile to at least look at the ph.

I didn't want to come across as a cocky noobie. So, I tried to bring the subject up without coming across like I think I actually know something about this stuff. :)

Seriously, I appreciate your input because all the study in the world doesn't account for what experience brings. I've studied... big deal. I haven't produced a single puff of medication from an indoor grow. That qualifies me to keep learning. :thumbsup:

I think its great when people like you come along and do the reading and theory before and continue during their grow - so very many just don't and I find it a little strange. If I'm starting out on some new project, plants in this case, I love to read and absorb everything I can on the subject - it doesn't feel like a drag or homework at all like some complain about. Its terrific fun, and can be challenging to get these girls growing happily inside, which makes it all the more interesting. The growlogs are my favourite haunt I love to follow how people do their grows and the problems they sometimes come across. Forwarned is forarmed eh?!

Also I am very much only a noob myself. We cut our first plant a week ago and now the main bunch are for the chop this weekend. They're the strapping daughters of the seedlings I nearly killed right at the start :)
Happy growing :)

Thanks for the kind words but, the truth is, I had never paid for seeds before... not to mention, I've never spent three weeks wondering if the package was going to get through (or worse, get an unwelcome visit). So, I had a little extra motivation. I didn't want to go through all that without at least giving myself a fighting chance to succeed. I don't mind paying for quality seeds. I had just never tried it before. But, that part went smoothly, so I'm glad I did. :cool:

Thanks for hanging out. I'd post some more pics but there really isn't anything new to see.

Have a great day! :thumbsup:

Week two pics... The ph problems seem to be behind us. All new growth is green. May have lost a few days, to a week, of development due to early issues.

You can really see them starting to green up now :) They'll be away now, and more than likely will quickly make up for that hiccup.

The day after I post two week pics, I get my first sign of gender. This is unbelievable... The seedling is two weeks old, 1 1/4 inch tall, and has pollen sacks. They're only visible under high magnification but, they are definitely pollen sacks.

It's not a big deal. I want a male and expect to get more. But, I'm absolutely stunned to see definite sex determination at this stage.

Sacks are easily identifiable with the naked eye today. The camera I have access to only has auto-focus which does not function well on closeups. I put a magnifying glass in front of the camera to get this shot. It's blurry, but I think the sacks in the middle will be visible.

Sucks about the male.....but at least ya got it early. The rest looking good man. Keep of green

I bought regular seeds with the intention of generating seeds for future grows, since you can't really clone these. So, for me, it doesn't really suck. :thumbsup: In fact, this will be the male I grow out for pollen for this strain.

But, like I said, for it to sex at that stage of development, seems bizarre. :confused:

BTW, thanks for dropping by and I appreciate the kind words. :)

One more noob mistake made this an ordeal instead of a quick and easy transition. Seed trays are a bad plan, IMHO. But, it's finished, so it's all good. :) Next time... Rapid Rooters!

Here are a couple pics. The camera I am using (Kodak v803) will not focus on close shots.

I have one male for sure but none of the others have shown yet. All of them are very close. After I've culled the males I don't want, I'll try to post some better pics of the group.

The first pic is of all 14 plants immediately after re-pot. The second pic is my "angel" mutant. I know, I should have gone ahead and culled this one. But, my curiosity has gotten the better of me and, I want to see where this thing goes. :)

Here's one more pic... the young stud. I may be figuring this camera out. We'll see. :cool:

Attachment 274703

One thing to remember about Auto's (I have grown ...hmmm "a few" lol so this is from experience) Is they are VERY VERY VERY sensitive to Nukes. If they are yellowing or wilting or drying up then something with your Nutrition is off and they hate it. Its VERY easy to Nuke them so give 25% of what you give to a normal plant and they will be happy all the way to the 61 day.
I look forward to seeing the results, my best single Auto pull was 1.5Oz's I believe, so hopefully that Inspires lol....
Oh keep that Male ^^ Take one of your best looking females and breed them. That way you have a stabilized version of Regular seeds that will be Phenoms the next run. Plus you have a army and don't have to buy anymore XD...
No mother plants/Clones = Smarter ways of keeping a strain going lol...
Happy Growing!/One Love...
:rastasmoke:

I do plan to pollenize both strains if I get a male and female from each.

With the damage and stress I put these plants through early, I'll be content if I get out of this with anything resembling a decent result. :)

I'm concerned about how these guys are going to react to their first taste of nutes via the FFOF I just re-potted them into. We'll see.

I'm leaving them under the fluoro's for a couple days to get over the stress from re-potting. Then, I turn up the HPS. So, they're going to be going through some changes. Wish me luck! :jointsmile:

The plants are definitely responding to being re-potted. Had a second Cobra male show... :chainsaw: R.I.P. :)

Update: I have absolutely identified two Cobra males. I thought I had positively identified several females. As things have progressed, I now only have one female positively identified with white pistols.

I have not seen any more identifiable sacks but, something is going on that I'm not sure about. My microscope is ordered but will not be here for a week or so. Consequently, I am not able to upload pics to illustrate the issue. I am looking at these things through a magnifying glass presently.

When the HPS turned back up this morning (I'm doing 20/4), I saw something going on with several of the plants I was sure were females. They actually look more like calyxes than sacks but that may just be wishful thinking. I guess it's possible they're hermis. If they are male, they sure are taking a long time to show compared to the other ones.

The two males I ID'd already, showed their sacks almost immediately upon showing any sort of sex stage. The plants in question have looked like they were going to be females for close to a week now. I have been identifying the sex of plants for 40 years from outdoor grows. I have not seen this sort of thing yet but I have also never monitored plants this closely before.

The next few days should clear this up, one way or the other. :rastasmoke:

Today I started the plants on bloom nutes. They're four weeks old and would have all shown by now if I hadn't knocked them winding the first week.

All, have signs of sexing... just unable to positively ID. The two males I have ID'd showed very apparent sacks right away. None of the plants in question, have sacks yet. But, they don't have for sure pistols either...

I'm not concerned. It will be what it will be. :rastasmoke: