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Hey all,
Long time no post!
Here's my delima.. I had a fem Amnesia Haze go hermi (severely) and it pollinated a femmed Super Lemon Haze. Needless to say, I have a bunch of seeds as a result. I've recently started a few of these seeds and was curious what my chances may be of getting a stable female from the cross of these two plants? Opinions please.
Peace, Farmer Rich
The odds are 100% that the off spring will be hermi too. Hermis always produce more hermis. Sorry for the sad news. Some folks grow hermis with good strain genetics then just watch closely and clip the male balls. You can do this if you are indoor and just have 1 or 2 plants and check them daily but it is still a gamble.
Hey Rudy,
That's exactly what I was assuming.. bummer. I was looking forward to what a Super Lemon/Amnesia Haze cross would be like. You know I could try spraying them with Dutch Masters Reverse, which I just happen to have. I remember a couple of years ago discussing this product and how it prevents hermaphroditeism.
Peace, Farmer Rich
You sure?. I thought I read in a different thread that was not always the case, could be wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy2010
That thread was recently resurrected here, glad it was b/c everyone that has used DM gives good reviews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Rich
My GDP did the same thing, hermie, bad, poppin pollen sacks just below week 2-3 buds,.... got 6 seeds off of a blueberry that got pollenated by the hermie GDP,..... week 2-3 of flower,.... SACKS!!! FUCK!
It would have been such a nice cross, and the pheno was a blend of GrandDaddyPurple, (coloration of the leaves being dark green with blue hues to purple if I got temps down) and the mild manners of the Blueberry, (And quick to bud, not a lot of stretch)
Sucks, but the 2 I tried are both dead now,.... I might try another outdoors, since the GDP was stable outside.
i thought that i read a hrmi gives you feminized seeds, but i could be wrong.
I read 90% female here. I just planted a bunch for the first time, so I'll know in a few months what the % really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by donnachris
I let the 2 Amnesia Haze I had go to about 4 weeks before taking them out and ended up with a shit load of seeds on the Super Lemon Haze that got pollinated. I've recently planted 3 of the beans and will probably flower 1 using Reverse. I also have 2 more of the Amnesia Haze beans and plan on holding off on those until I get through testing AH/SLH cross. Only reason I'm flowering one is these plants tend to get big, particularly the SLH, which can stretch up to 3.5 times in height during flower.Quote:
Originally Posted by canniwhatsis
As far as the cross seeds being female, that's what I'm expecting.
Peace, Farmer Rich
Hogwash. I have had many throw a nanner and used the pollen to fertilize them. I have one that is more stable than the momma.Quote:
The odds are 100% that the off spring will be hermi too. Hermis always produce more hermis. Sorry for the sad news. Some folks grow hermis with good strain genetics then just watch closely and clip the male balls. You can do this if you are indoor and just have 1 or 2 plants and check them daily but it is still a gamble.
Hey Farmer Rich, you bush growin' son of a ...:thumbsup: How you doing?
WW has it right. Don't listen to Rudy and that nonsence, hermie traits don't follow pollen unless the hermie trait was already present. Meaning if you forced the hermie, or it went hermie accidentally due to light poisining or chem poisining, it's offspring will be as likely to hermie as it's parent, it won't. If it hermied due to poor genetics to begin with, well....
..... DM's reverse works just as advertised when used per thier directions. Many grower's use it just as an insurance policy.:thumbsup:
To other's, pollen from a female plant that turned hermie will produce 100% female seeds since the female plant has no male genes to pass on.
@WW; You say Hogwash, I say BullShit. :)
OM
Thank you for clarifying. How about straight seeds from a hermi?. I just mailed some to a friend out of state suffering from fybromyalgia(sp). I sent those b/c it is the only Indica strain I have, and she wants to grow it for pain relief. I don't care for the strain actually, potent but it makes me too drowsy.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
My normal ratio on straight non-hermi seed germination is about 60% female, will it remain the same?
Biz
From the original question Farmer Rich wrote in this thread he has a plant that turned hermi for no particular reason. All he asked about was the if pollen will create hermis and it definitely will. Stressing a plant to create feminized seeds does not appear to be what happened here. He probably has a plant that has hermi genetics.
It is great that someone mentioned the DM as an alternate solution to hand picking the balls off. How late in the growth cycle can the DM be used. When you see the balls, after the balls open or even later?
Yes hermi plants will be female to start with. If not treated with DM or tended to carefully they will turn hermi. The plant will pollinate itself stop producing resin and will start to die. The original plant and any other plants pollinated by the hermi pollen will have hermi seeds as well.
The seeds will be hermi but for some folks that is not problem.
Hey Old Mac, how the heck are you?! You should see my trees now, I've graduated to #7 pro-can pots and have 2 Vanilla Kush getting upwards of 4.5' with a stalk about 1.25" in diameter; my Super Lemon Haze is just a bit over 6' and it's stalk is at least 1.5" in diameter and I flipped it at 22" (top of dirt to top of plant)! The last Super Lemon Haze produced nearly 11 oz dried (albeit seedy..) and not one bud went to trash. I'm expecting 8 oz off one Vanilla Kush coming down this weekend. Yes, I still like those big assed plants..
Back to the topic.. The hermis I had were definitely genetic, evidently Soma doesn't do as well at feminizing seeds as some other seed producers.. Both of my Amnesia Haze were definitely chicks w/dicks. What got me started on this topic was after I got pissed off and chopped both offenders down at about 4 weeks I gave them to a buddy to include as trash for hash. He ended up rolling one from the premature weed and it knocked his socks off. My plan (already started) is to grow out a couple of the offspring and see what happens, though I'm going to treat them with Dutch Masters Reverse to prevent it. I'll be interested to see how Reverse fairs on genetic hermis, because these were really bad. Assuming I'll be successful, I have 2 more Amnesia Haze beans that I'll grow out and just use Reverse when I start flowering to prevent recurrence.
Until this go around, I'd been a lucky SOB and never got many hermis.. I have had a few plants that might pop a nanner late in flower, but never more than a couple. Figures the problem would be on beans that cost me $75 for 5.
Peace, Farmer Rich
WOW Farmer, sounds like you really are growing trees, bless you. I'm doing pretty good.
As to the hermie pollen deal. Since you are sure it was bad genetics of the AH, the seeds produced on the AH will have that hermie trait. BUT the Super Lemon Haze seeds produced carry a 50/50 chance of having the trait. To grow them out the DM reverse is good insurance not to have that problem. First application should be 7 days after you flipp to 12/12, then reapply 10 days later. Make sure you use penertrator (now called saturator) with it. You may want to consider growing 1 plant out without reverse and keep a close eye on it just to see if it is prone to hermie or not. You can try to stabilize the SLH by crossing it back against itself, especially if that 1 test plant seems OK. :thumbsup:
Good luck with it, glad to see you around.
OM :jointsmile:
@ sunbiz1; "straight non-hermie" seeds, I believe you're talking abt "regular seeds" the product of a male plant and a female plant. A 60% female ratio is good and what should be expected.
As to "straight seeds from a hermie", well they ain't straight they be a product of a female plant self-pollination. Therefore the seeds are all female (no male plant was involved so no male genes are present to pass on). How stable it will be is dependent on why it went hermie.
@ Rudy; sorry to be so hard on you, but FRs original post just said they hermied bad, not what caused it. He verified that it was poor genetics so the pollen is suspect to pass that trait along. He's experienced enough to know the difference btw. And as I told FR, the plant next to it has a 50/50 chance of having that trait passed to it. You just can't jump to the conclusion it was bad genetics without more infomatiom.
9 outa 10 times when a plant hermies it is the product of enviromental conditions, ie light or chem poisining. A lot of new growers will say "Oh poor genetics" when in fact it got caused for a reason. It seems as breeders cut corners to get strains to market this ratio (9/10) may increase, but the usual scenerio is enviro.
Again, sorry about being so hard on you intially about this. It's just that there are alot of misconceptions about how bad a hermie and it's pollen is.
OM
unless it was clone, wouldnt traits express themselves randomly? the more hermie traits available would ceate a higher tendency for hermie...correct? selective breeding could minimize these traits...yes? and for female seeds, wouldnt they have that tendency just by creation?:stoned:
oldmac Thanks for the info on hermi plants. I am relatively new (3 years) to growing large plants outdoors with my license but have grown a quite a few from time to time over the years.
I was always careful to keep my seeds only from buds that had just one or two seeds per ounce. Usually these seeds were female. I would give them to my friend and he kept using old hermi seeds because the weed was "good enough". His hermis kept crossing with the plants from the seeds I gave him and the off spring always produced more hermis. Also the quality gradually but steadily degraded. Two years ago I finally got him to plant some afghan goo clones and none of his seeds. Now he thinks he is the greatest grower in the world and afghan goo is the greatest weed ever. He made butter and hash out of his old hermi stash and tossed his polluted seeds.
I know a few commercial growers who also trash hermis in any way shape or form. They will kill all the plants and destroy them immediately. They will sterilize the soil (I don't know how they do this). Then won't grow in that area for a couple of years.
You can see why from my experience I believed hermis were all bad.
So it was good to see from the information you mentioned in your post to see that having a hermi is not the end of the world for that plant. I know you are thorough in your research from other posts that you have made.
How late is too late to use the DM to reverse the hermaphroditism.
TY for the further info mac, have a good weekend!.
Hey Oldmac,Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Good advice and my primary plan. The Reverse and Penetrator I have is a couple of years old, but never opened so I'm not overly worried about shelf life.
As a rule on new seed plants, I always take a few cuttings prior to flipping incase she turns out to be "The One!".. In this case I'll just flip one at a time, especially since these sativas can get so frickin' tall and wide. When I first started playing with them, I flipped 4 at once.. 2 x AH, 2 x SLF. Of those, one SLH grew above my lights and was over 7', killed it for the greater good of the room. Then the 2 AH showed their true selves, which we've been discussing; the other SLH is the one I described earlier (10+ oz). Needless to say, I've learned that in the style I grow, no more than 2 sativas in the room at once.
Only downside I see in this approach is I'll never really know if I get a stable female from one of the crossed seeds. If the results are good, I may have to flip one without Reverse to see.. if it goes south, I'll just kill it off..
Thanks for jumping in on this thread, I always trust and respect your advice! Glad to hanging around again!! :jointsmile:
Peace, Farmer Rich
Hey FarmerRich, I like a man with a plan. Go big or go home!:thumbsup:Good luck with it.
NO as I said earlier, if you casue the plant to hermie with some form of light or chem poisning, the resulting seed would be stable, no more prone to hermie then it's single mom, it won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by MEDEDCANNABIS
Hope that helps you understand more.
OM
Hey rudy2010,
If you take your seed that sounds like it has poor genetics and grow it along side plants with shit genetics...the resulting offspring are just junk genetics. Glad to hear you stopped the insanity! :thumbsup:
I also remove and kill any unwanted hermies. The only good hermie to me is one I deliberatly made that way. And that is usually from a stable line to begin with. As far as sterilizing the soil, you don't have to do that. Water renders pollen inert. Outdoors one good rain and it's gone, indoors spray water around and wipe down every thing in that room, remembering pollen can hide in cracks, corners, on lights and chain falls etc.
It is a commonly held belief that all hermies cause more hermie off spring, and that's just not true.
Most of my info comes from many years of growing and studing horticulture. I try my best to give good factual info to people.
As for reverse, for insurance at flipp. Or at the first sign of a problem spray them immediately then 10 days after that.
After answering everybodies questions, I feell like I'm hip deep in hermie pollen.
Anyway I hope everybody learned something from FarmerRich's thread.
OM:jointsmile:
Thanks for the info and the details on when to spray. Most of the time when a hermie is found it is already too late. I have heard that to keep pollen alive you need to freeze it in an air tight container. I does not seem to live very long anyway from my experience but I have not really researched it. For now I will stick to the clones but would like to breed some seeds someday (White Widow x Black Domina to make Black Widow).
Hey Rudy,
I can tell you from first hand experience that pollen will stay viable for 3 years. I used to store pollen in 3"x5" glassine envelopes (like stamp collectors use) in a plastic recipe file box, loaded with some desicant packs in the box. Don't think I'd try to freeze pollen, but not sure what it might do.But a cool spot is a good idea.
OM
Cool, thanks for your factual info.....sure would like to see some of your ideas in the old wives tales threadQuote:
Originally Posted by oldmac