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Can someone, preferably in the legal profession, state for the record what if any compensation is legal monetary or otherwise for patients to other patients or caregivers? I have heard multiple things from multiple sources, personally I choose to pay the additional fee of 75$'s and have a legal peace of mind at night....but also in the same sense don't want to have to register every patient if not necessary...All opinions and thoughts are welcome..:thumbsup:
If they are not your patient, you can only gift . No law back ground, if I have time though I will cite how they worded it in the law .
Thanks...could you please put the qoute in. This way the info can be read by somebody new all in one thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldHead09
PS..
Great Pot pics..
AS I worked for RIPAC and now starting my own ASA chapter i can tell you that.....If they have not signed you up as there caregiver you can only gift. But Im no lawyer just been in this for a minuetQuote:
Originally Posted by OldHead09
Keep Tokken
Diesel
I believe it is better to be safe than sorry so I insist all patients register as well. Why may I ask did you depart RIPAC?Quote:
Originally Posted by polarboy
Not A Lawyers so this does not constitute legal advise in any way shape or form. These are my opinions based on my experience(s) with the interpretation of the laws that govern RI MM. I have discussed many issues relative to these matters with legal professional and have a sound understanding, but again, I am no lawyer and this is not way constitutes legal advise of any kind...
Here's the law as it is written, there are really no other stipulations that dictate any other process involving the transfer of monetary contributions concerning MM, the only guidline is that "YOU CANNOT PROFIT FROM IT" Just get reimbursement for cultivating it and providing it to your patient or CG... You technically cannot even sell it which is why I blasted all the CG's charging more than 150 to 200 an oz. (post was quickly removed because I mentioned flooding market, legally, and called all who charge more that those prices "Drug Dealers" BIG SHOKER THERE...LOL:thumbsup:) If you do, you are most likely profiting from it which is highly illegal (Pun intended...lol) and unethical. A profit according to Generaly Accepted Accounting Priciples (GAAP) is any monetary gain realized beyound covering your operational expenses.
The law states Under Section 1 - of the General Laws in Chapter 21-28.6 entitled "The Edward O. Hawkins and Thomas C. Slater Medical Marijuana Act" Subsection -21-28.6-4. Protections for the medical use of marijuana. --
(e)(f) A primary caregiver may receive reimbursement for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient's medical use of marijuana. Compensation shall not constitute sale of controlled substances.
and
Section 1. 21-28.6-4. Protections for the medical use of marijuana. Section (m) A registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver may give marijuana to another registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver to whom they are not connected by the department's registration process, provided that no consideration is paid for the marijuana, and that the recipient does not exceed the limits specified in section 21-28.6-4.
There are many ways to navigate these drafted laws if you have an attorney, some real world buisness sense and experience with running companies or Not For Profit oraganizations, etc... Ironically, I do but am not willing to share these programs because well, it's RI and I really don't have faith that it won't be abused...Sorry! The only thing I can say is your best bet is to ask for a donation, document the transaction when transfering MM from patient to patient, CG or whomever you choose to work with, just my opinion!
Treat it like a business, track your expenses, document, document, document!!! There are many ways to cover your assets, RIPAC has a few links that are very helpful in complying with these guidlines. I'm rather surprise many of the CG's I've meet that claim to be above board do not even follow RIPAC's signage recommendations which are spot on and will cover your assets if the 5 O come knocking on your door considerably.
Be safe and please, do the homework or hire a consultant to help you create a business model to comply with such guidlines. I would offer considering I am a consultant who can do just that, but, yet again, I have faith issues and am on a different path that prohibits me from doing so..... Again, sorry! Hopefully this will help. Sorry about the book!
For more information about such things got ripatients.ord or RIPAC: Medical Marijuana in Rhode Island for more legal info.
Best,
The Compassionate Cannabis Man :hippy:
This information does not constitute legal advice of any kind, I am not a lawyer. If you follow it, and it does not hold up in a court of law, you do so under the understanding that it was just and idea based upon research and has no legal standing.....LIKE I SAID....COVER YOU ASSETS THE BEST YOU CAN....OVERKILL IS BETTER THAN UNDERKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for your question OldHead - Whether you pay the $75 for each patient or have them pay when you make the CG transfer is completely up to you since it is an expense associated with providing MM. Most patients won't pay unless you can prove you have the quality goods though and it's a good idea to provide some "Free Samples" again, unless you can document the fact that you both understand that the sample are free and the fee is to cover your expenses you pretty much have very little legal ground to stand on other than your word and the word of the patient if a legal issue arrises.
Traditionally, the CG pays unless they have a bad experience and choose otherwise. I've only had two CG's since I got my license back in the summer of '10 and I paid for one (because they were a 200an oz. guy and they took my fee off my first recommended donation while the other one paid it because he was a 300 and oz guy). It's completely up to you... Who do you think gets all my biz though...lol No, I cannot share them unless I know you personally...Sorry!
Happy Growin To All!!!!!!!!!!
I always thought As long as its patient to patient or caregiver to patient etc.You could ONLY accept DONATIONS Toward the cultivation and upkeep of the grow.AND as long as it is clear it is a DONATION toward these things there shouldn't be an issue..This is just what i read on other forums etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by theccman
oldhead i would like to start off with saying that i am greatfull of the help that you and others give to noobies like myself. With that said I agree with what you said it is better to be safe than sorry. i Follow the rule of gifting to registered patients, (that are not my paitents, And when i have the meds to do so). and i only ask for compensation from my patients witch is 100-150 an ounce,( once my garden is producing regularly). thats how i enterpret the law and have had no problems. I have had the prov. police at my door 2 times for the people down stairs, but they did find my grow room witch was all legal and locked and ect. and the police said very nice plants ask a couple of questions and went about there way. No problems and this was over 3-6 months ago. On the subject of why i left RIPAC i want to say that there are no bad feelings towards them, but i do belive that there needs to be another group of activists wheather you are a register paitent or caregiver or just an mmj activist. RIPAC is overloaded with work and i feel that they have lost sight of what it means to be a paitent advocate. I started a ASA chapter in maryland,( witch goes on today) and wrote the med bill that maryland voted on last year and the one they will vote on this year. So i do know a bit about the laws from all states. I have worked on the fedaral level on mmj matters and have spoken with reprsentives from 30-35 states on mmj. Just like everyone here im just a paitent that wants to help others and make rhode islands mmj program on for all the other states to follow...sorry for the book but if any one would like to talk more privatly or just more indepth than what im able to write you can reach me at [email protected]. would love to hear from anyone who would like to know more about what is going on in the mmj community localy and natinaly. sorry i caint spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldHead09
Keep Tokken
Diesel
The first states you can collect money for med's if there is an established relationship between the two and it clearly states "Only a PRIMARY CAREGIVER may receive reimbursement for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient's medical use of marijuana. Compensation shall not constitute sale of controlled substances." Of which covers all cost's associated with the faciliatation of getting them the meds as long as long as the relationship is on file with the DOH. Including Delivery, time spent etc...:thumbsup: That is where creating a licensed buisness model comes into play...Quote:
Originally Posted by hghflyrjd1
The second one states that any registered, qualified patient/CG "may GIVE marijuana to another registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver to whom they are not connected by the department's registration process, provided that NO CONSIDERATION IS PAID for the marijuana"
Soooo.... what's the donation for???? It's a pretty hard sell in court if you don't have a Non-Profit, licensed bus. or documentation to back up the transaction. If you think otherwise, good luck with that! RI cop's are not really known for their attention to detail or siding with those whom they think to be "Drug Dealers" now are they...lol
It's called an "Implied Transaction". Therefore, there's no physical evidence that shows reasonable doubt that it was NOT a med's for money transaction in either case to cover your assets if you get pinched while making said transaction now is there....
Even then, unless you need to know exactly what you are doing and certain specific steps need to be taken in a certain sequence in order to make it trully 100% legal... Remeber, anyone can pretend to know the answers on a forum.... Even I don't profess to know the law as well as an attorney and this is no way legal advice of any kind.
If you use this information for your interests you are doing so knowing fully that it is in no way shape or form is coming from a licensed attorney and does not constitute legal advice and are using this information at 100% your own risk. I'm just a research nerd/business professional that does his homework and does not condon such illegal behaviour. Besides how can you prove it was just $$$ to cover your expenses unless you DOCUMENT YOUR EXPENSES??? Keeping track of your transactions, cost of proving MM and the provide said evidence you are not profiting in a court of law is the only way you can really do so now isn't it!!! Good luck convincing a judge to throw it out of court if you don't have these things at the pre-trial. Judges don't want to hear you, they want physical evidence. Without it, you are not going to get the charges dismisses. Don't believe me, ask an attorney!
The politician's were quite clever in drafting a state law that actually pretty much required you to provided physical evidence that shows you violated a federal one.....you gotta love politic's...not! You really need to know what you are doing and how to run a business in order to keep in line with the law, that is how they planned it! If you don't treat it like a business, you are going to look like a drug dealer. Just about every CG that got busted has been tossed so far... or will be tossed into the federal arena unless they learn how to make sure it never goes to trial to begin with.... The second it does, your pretty much done if you ask me!
Good luck... As time goes on I may be willing to share the details on the proper way(s) of doing such things but I need to do my own things until then... Again, sorry! I've already said a little to much so take advantage, do your homework and read between the lines of what I said. I really can't give you more without telling you all at this point. Was looking for a few trustworthy CG's to help me roll it out but a prior post got pulled which hinted at such things so I know this is not the place for me to find them so please don't ask to come along for the ride...
Hope this was helpful and please advise the "forum guy/gal" that said otherwise to re-examine their words closlely. Don't try to re-interperet a law that is kind of clear cut if you ask me. The only way to comply with the law is to document the process in which you follow the law... Pure and simple! Try to twist it and you will surely get beat down by the justice system. The only problem is, even the people I consulted with were kinda blown away with my ability to understand the guidlines and use them in the manner in which I am conveying so good luck if you are search for an attorney or consultant to help you in your endeavors.
God please forgive me for sounding arrogant...
Keep on Growin and may only the honest, true Caregivers survive...
Peace Be With You,
The Compassionate Cannabis Man:hippy:
Can't wait for the first ASA meeting!!! I hope I can attend, God willing...
"When information is shared and groups of people aspire to better themselves and the communities they are a part of the exchange creates an energy that can change the world!" - Some religious guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarboy
As far as I've seen not many in here really know or understand just how these laws really work.and im one of them.but Im working on that.I'm no caregiver so I'm just looking to find out just how this is all gonna fall into place.so when say I or another patient gets there Meds at said cost or donation.what are we doing?everyone is not signed up with a caregiver.I haven't seen one patient that has one that offers low cost meds at cost you stated.I would sign to that.But there isn't many doing that.
Your not alone... Many people are profiting from MM and have no clue how to run a legitimate business, let alone a straight up MM one...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hghflyrjd1
When you need your meds, you don't have room to argue now do you:(. I'm still searching and have been for 6 months. I believe ASA is trying to establish a network of affordable, legitimate CG's but for me, the proof is in the pudding!
Willing to help them out if they are though and have already made contact. I've recently elected to try and establish such a network but it takes time, having embarked on my own personal mission to do so is not an easy task and risky.
Personally, I don't need to "profit" from it because I know how to do it the correct way according to the law but am forced to play ball in an arena that makes me feel very uncomfortable in the mean time....... If you are a patient only, all the risk is on the CG so don't sweat it. The CG's carry all the risk in the eye's of the law. If they are "Drug Dealers" they have already proven to have no problem breaking the law. Just because they carry a card doesn't give them to protection the falsely believe they have which is quite comical if you ask me:thumbsup:
Ironically, if a cop busted you in mid tranaction, they would most likely pull you apart, ask you both some question's, give you your meds and cuff the CG if they really were on top of the law. Rarely happens though!
I found a couple CG's who seem to be close to what I am looking for and upon developing a relationship, will gladly help them reach out to other patients such as yourself. That is, once I establish a relationship with them of course.
The biggest problem is creating a safe environment for patient and CG alike. Very difficult, but doable! Once I have all the people in play, trust me, your gonna hear about it!!!!!!!!!
Good luck until then and don't worry, your pretty much covered:D
Best,
The CC Man:hippy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by theccman
As an ASA Chapter, we don't regulate or network patients with caregivers. What we do is help to aware the community of how the patients feel about the program. We build awareness of changing events and time which affect the Medical Marijuana Community. You can find out more at ASA : Advancing Legal Medical Marijuana Therapeutics and Research, we are simple the Rhode Island Chapter of Patients, Caregivers, and Advocacy persons whom care about the laws which govern us. Through our website, you can find Legal advice and contact national affiliates as well.
By networking thru ASA you will meet all types of people from all accross the country, not just Rhode Island. What you do with that networking, is up to you. Please ALWAYS follow the Laws which govern us ALL.
We are NOT a collective of CAREGIVERS, but caregivers are members are able to be members, anyone can realy, including people who medicate for reasons not protected by the law, such as Anxiety or PTSD, Bi-Polar, and so on for truely medical purposes, and which to HELP address those lacking issues as well as combat the poor additions, such as removal of grow provisions.
Polarboy please email me, would love to talk about national legislation and RI activism over coffee..Quote:
Originally Posted by polarboy
Keep me informed on this..Also on these Caregivers,Since the subject has been brought up,where are these people offering meds at $150 an OZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by hghflyrjd1
Been wondering the same things....It would be great to be a state like montana where even at the dispensaries reasonable prices are found publicly..
PERSONALLY,Quote:
Originally Posted by hghflyrjd1
I'm just starting to get my garden where i will have a perpetual harvest. And for my patients that have me as their caregiver I have figured mt expense reimbursement to be approx $150.00 - $200.00 depending on strain because I'm doing some long flowering pure Sativas that flower for 18+ weeks. And I am available to take on more patients, if anyone is interested.
HOWEVER,
ASA does not regulate or by any other means sponsor my garden or ability to be a Caregiver. I am simply a patient who has the ability to be a caregiver for another patient if needed.
- Diesel
This is what we plan to do at the ASA meetings, if you have not emailed [email protected] please do so to make contact for these meetings.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldHead09
At an ASA meeting you COULD possibly meet a Caregiver and discuss with them, privately, their services, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hghflyrjd1
This is why Community Networking is SO IMPORTANT
Hopefully we will have a GOOD turn-out at OUR (the MMJ Community) meetings.