Experiments with making equatorial breeds flower

Ok, many know of this and SuperJay had a question in the basic growing section. I think this is super advanced stuff and doesn't belong in the normal location.

Now we have discussed my situation in several posts, but a brief synopsis is in merit regarding full understanding of this. SuperJay also found that even after extended period of time with an apparent landrace (mine for sure is landrace) Thai, that even tho it shows flowers it will not bud over an extended period of time...in my case 10 weeks.

I am going to dedicate a special spot to work this out, but it seems that SuperJay is in a better position to begin the experimentation. He is already at 12/12 whereas I am at 18/6.

As Weezard and OH, and a few others have mentioned, it needs to be a gradual light change, not a poof change. My research indicated a light change of 3 minutes per day average with the cycle being either side of a 13/11 cycle.

SuperJay I suggest you slowly move up to 13 hours, stay there for at least a month, then move down slowly over 3 months to 11 hours. That is what my experiment will be when I get my area set up and lighting timer in place. But because of the gradual, I think I will slowly go down from where I am at 18/6 to 13 and hold for a while and then decrease again to 11. The buds were never plump like buds now-a-days, which I am not sure if that was due to wild growth or if we can enhance that as we learn how to make this species produce an end result.

Did you get your seeds from Gypsy Nirvana, the GN Collection? That is what I am working with.

Any and all types of growing information is welcome, but I am in pots in potting soil, indoors, under HID lamps trying to make an equatorial Thai landrace flower enough to have a harvest.

My timer will only go in 15 minute increments, so once a week or so I will adjust the time by 15 minutes.

Many thanks to the folks that have responded in the other threads regarding this topic. Time to put the knowledge in one place.

I won't miss a word of it.
Mahalo nui!:thumbsup:

Weeze

Nice idea 'Wonder putting it all together.

I wasn't sure to chime in on Landrace Thai, but having grown it I can tell you this, I never tried to grow it indoors. Normally in a field it's a 15meter plant, or 14'-16'.

When I've grown it for seeds, I would start it indors, using a vertical growth inhitibtor. Then I'd move it early in the outdoor season to my greenhouse (which only has a little over 8' flloor to top clearence) again dosing with VGI and ususally finishing just below glass top level, 1/2 of what it grows outdoors.

But because it's normal light level is 11-13hrs daily it can grow and flower at 12/12 for a long time. I think oldhole pointed this out before.

I've included a link to an enviro chart, so you get a better idea of temps both day/night and amount of light, etc. yearly. This is of Udon Than, located in the NE of Thailand. The best Thai stick is grown here. :thumbsup:

http://www.CLIMATE-CHARTS.com/LOCATIOONS/T/th48354.PHP

Hope it helps.
OM

Just realized in trying the link, it did not hold the Udon page, you will have to just seach thru the home page.

thanks for the new tread washougal wonder and such a big response in just a few hours peeps :thumbsup: i will be workin the method given straight away as i have seen grows before and never known a plant to flower so slowly, i also have done a little reserch into various thai strains and have found that the earliest one could be ready is 56days into flower and the longest being upto 126days yes 18 weeks , i couldnt beleive what i was reading lol lets just hope mine dont take that long.
i cant really tell you about the strain as was just taken from the bag i had one day but the buzz i had totally changed my mind about thai as it was proper heavy heady high but on the reverse i could still go about my day and get jobs done .
i really didnt expect the plant to grow so big so quick either as turned from 18/6 at 15inch apx and now are easily 3ft+ and if they keep going at the rate they are im going to have to cull 3 and keep 3 as my closet seems to have shrunk loads, im currently using 600wt hps bulb plants in pots with soil and my nuets are ionic flower and bloom every other water the smell it gives now is really fresh and well just beautiful. hope this helps and i havent just babbled on and once again thanks for the info :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Nice idea 'Wonder putting it all together.

I wasn't sure to chime in on Landrace Thai, but having grown it I can tell you this, I never tried to grow it indoors. Normally in a field it's a 15meter plant, or 14'-16'.

When I've grown it for seeds, I would start it indors, using a vertical growth inhitibtor. Then I'd move it early in the outdoor season to my greenhouse (which only has a little over 8' flloor to top clearence) again dosing with VGI and ususally finishing just below glass top level, 1/2 of what it grows outdoors.

But because it's normal light level is 11-13hrs daily it can grow and flower at 12/12 for a long time. I think oldhole pointed this out before.

I've included a link to an enviro chart, so you get a better idea of temps both day/night and amount of light, etc. yearly. This is of Udon Than, located in the NE of Thailand. The best Thai stick is grown here. :thumbsup:

http://www.CLIMATE-CHARTS.com/LOCATIOONS/T/th48354.PHP

Hope it helps.
OM

Just realized in trying the link, it did not hold the Udon page, you will have to just seach thru the home page.

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I'd love to see a 49.212'-15 meter plant in a field. It would be reminiscent of Jack and the Bean Stalk. :S2: Just ribbing OM. :D

So that said, I would drop it to 13/11 now. One crack. I don't think doing that will have any effect on her. The slower you do that first drop, the bigger the plant will get.

After you get stabilized at 13/11, for a few weeks, then comes the slow change.

Like OM, I've grown these puppies outside, and they get big. Stupid big. Unless you have a lot of space, for these plants to grow into, I wouldn't want to doddle around going from 18/6 to 13/11.

If it's not asking too much, do a log of this project. I wish you the best and would like to see how it goes.

OH - This thread is going to sorta be the grow log.
OM - I appreciate all information available.
SJ - I think anything that matures in 56 days is a crossbred Thai.

So, lets fill ya in on my area. I will do this with a single 400 MH under a vertizontal fixture. The power supply is switchable so I can go to HPS at just a bulb change. Main flower room is on 12/12 for now. No nutes in veg, will give molasses, Ultra Snowstorm, and phosphoload in flower as needed.

I already know how big this gets inside, and I think LST will be the way to grow. Again, pots and FF OF. The hardest part will be the repotting after it starts to get big, and I don't like over large pots that the water can sink to the bottom and stagnate, so I do lots of repotting. Will start with one plant at 1 foot.

OM - I use VGI at times. Will it effect going into full flower if I give it in veg? Use after flower show? (I use phosphoload).

OH - As soon as I can get the room ready, will do a sudden drop.

Room size will be 5x8x8 (WxLxH) and dedicated to this plant for now.

Yea, WW, I'm tagging along for the ride just to see what happens. Gotta love the peeps willing to document an experiment! Or even the ones willing to experiment! Good Luck, I hope it's successful! :thumbsup:

I'm in. This will be a great learning experience, and I like to learn as much as I can.:hippy:

just a quick update as now my 6 have become 3 purely because of the size that they are growing at, been running at 13/11 now for 4 days and still no change not that i expected it lol still getting a fem look about them then next day just new leaves so lets just hope the next 10 days go quick so i can get these babys blooming

Well the weather has been just poop for the last few days, I spent the last two days, 12 hours each (I am pooped) to rearrange and set the Thai in a 5x5 foot space. Of course it gets venting air, used white Mylar for a door. Currently under 400 MH. I know it is female from last attempt to flower. Shows nothing now.
(Just for my referral, in on 12/7/10)

Poor thing looks so lonely all by itself in there. Got to go back to home depot and get a timer with all the parts, so that didn't get finished and had to use a regular plug in cheapo...the kind that almost set off a fire in my grow a few months back.

This will be nice as it allows me to store all my gardening stuff in one place out of sight with the plants. I knew there was a good reason to buy the 750 CFM exhaust fan way back, right on my square footage for CFM now.

Now if I can just find a good place for the clone trays and table out of the way in there. But the weather is still crap so I have time again today.....but I am sooooo tired. Not as young as I used to be and it sure takes a long time to do stuff.

Will hold at 13/11 for at least 4 if not 6 weeks.....patience WW, patience.

Here brah, have some sunshine:)

Visited Washington in December once.
Just once.

Poor thing looks so lonely all by itself in there.

Let's hope she sweats resin, pinin' for company.:D

Now if I can just find a good place for the clone trays and table out of the way in there.

Have you considered a chicken-wire or hardware mesh table for da big girl.
With an 8' height you can fashion a 1' mesh table to sit her on and slide the clone tray underneath.
Between her shadow, and the mesh, the light from a 400 will be attenuated enough for cloning.
You will get more than enough wall bounce to keep 'em happy.

Big mahalo fo' logging this.:thumbsup:

Aloha,
Weezard

Ah Weezard thank you so. Yes, I think maybe a modified LST I can make it grow around a 5 foot square area....that would total about 20 feet and once a full circle is made then trim the top and start the growth inhibitor.

EUREKA! I found a timer that I can adjust by the minute and will take the amperage. Digital pump timer, 40A capacity at 240, (20A @120). Says it will do a whole week at a time, so I should be able to decrease by as little as one minute per day. Spendy..$70. Was at Home Depot.

SuperJay, not sure if you have Home Depot on your side of pond, but it is a big home improvement warehouse kind of place and they sell anything from landscaping to appliances, wiring, wood, anything you need to build a home.

Now, to *GULP* figure out how to program it. LOL....where is my 23-year-old son?

Oh, and with a little adjusting, the clone tray and seedling trays are now up on a table, no more bending over to maintain them....this is so cool. Storage, shelving, I should have done this years ago. I am actually ORGANIZED....can that be?

heres what i think,

try incandescent lightbulbs of equivalent hps wattage for two weeks. they should ripen up fast. it has to do with changing the red/far red ratio to simulate late fall/early winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

Oh, and with a little adjusting, the clone tray and seedling trays are now up on a table, no more bending over to maintain them....this is so cool. Storage, shelving, I should have done this years ago. I am actually ORGANIZED....can that be?

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LOL! :D


All that work just to get a single strain to flower,..... ahhhh how weed can improve your life! ;) :hippy:


Big ups on this experiment, I'm looking forward to the results :hippy:

I learned yesterday....before I put the good timer in the circuit, while it took me over an hour to program it.....I am so dumb on those things......anyhow.

I learned yesterday that if the digital timer suffers a power loss during the cycle it will not come back on until the next cycle. So.....Only for the ability to change time by the minute should this be used if you have any power blurps where you live.

Have begun LST training.

Been racking my brains trying to figure-out how to grow the Thai seeds I was gifted. I've been hesitant to offer any landrace advise to you guys, as usually I prefer to have personal experience before offering any.

But the only things I can think that may work well, and the techniques I plan on trying, are:

1) Top early and often. Once the second or third set of true leaves shows, pop the top. Once the 2 shoots are sizeable enough, pop the tops again. If it hasn't gone to alternating nodes after that, top 'em again. My goal is to not let them get too tall before switching to flower. (under one foot if possible)

2) Train the tops down by tying to bamboo stakes. The tops compete for vertical 'supremacy'. By tying the top's down, the lower nodes should start this competition amongst themselves. (a SCROG technique)

3) Will try and wait on transplants till they are fairly rootbound. Just from casual observation, compacted roots can equate to compacted stretch. This might just be a nutrient-uptake thing though.

4) Strong lighting in flower, but off to the side rather than directly above the plant. (low-light levels stretch the ladies) The side-lighting should promote nodal branching rather than cola growth. Will likely bend the tops down twords the rim of the pot, and turn the pots daily for even growth.

5) First dose of growth inhibitor immediately upon switching to 12/12. The second dose once they've recovered from the first dose. None of the strains I've ever worked with (including sativa dominates) care if you slam 'em into flower, or if you ease 'em in. They should still react to the switch in nutes and lighting just fine. Might need to decrease schedule to 11-13 or 10-14 to innitiate flowering, but I'll play that one by ear.

6) Will start flowering in 3 gallon pots, but transplant into 5 gallons at about 6 weeks or so. This will replenish organics and buffering through the rest of the flowering period. (hopefully)

5) Keep fingers crossed, as this is likely a bad idea to try and grow 'em indoors.

Each of these techniques are stressors. I'm not certain of the stability of the genetics, so all this is subject to change without notice, lol. Don't want to dick-around and get unwanted nanners. Again...will be making decisions as the situation warrants it.

I'm planning on growing-out a male and a female. But if they get too unruly, I'll cull the girl and collect pollen from the male. Might not be able to take the Thai to full term, but I can certainly cross breed 'em just fine.

I'll be a few months before trying this. For starters, I'm not sure what temps are too low for Thai, plus...I'm a bit behind, and a failure would put me back to square one. Again.

I don't mean to hijack your thread Washougal, but I am quite interested in what will work, and what won't. :thumbsup:

Not even Rusty, thrilled you can participate. The more the merrier....but we need to stick with equatorial breeds, that is the only clincher here. Holds true for anyone else too. Actually I am glad, as you are going to grow a little differently than I, so we shall see which works best or if there is a difference at all. I am expecting lollipops.....sorta. My biggie is being able to continue to repot every 4-6 weeks as this goes along. Going to be a big pot at the end. Already 16" tall and in a 1 gallon.

Correction: Turns out the controller was defective, wired wrong internally. Now it works fine, remembers where it was if a power failure occurs.

I think I will do sort of a modified LST. I will train the main stalk to grow around each wall. The side branches will (I assume) reach toward the light at the center of the room. I already know that topping didn't do me much good before, just made the side branches go nuts. Will support main stalk around the room until it goes the whole way, then chop. Should be well into flower by then if it is going to do well......I hope. I guess I should get a picture up.

Will VGI prevent flowers from starting?

photo at the start

Yup. That's a sativa. :thumbsup:

Decided that there's no time like the present.
I started 3 seeds, and set-up the flowering room to give me an idea of what I'll be up against as far as lighting and workspace.

I had a couple sections of concrete mesh (6" x 6" steel mesh to reinforce concrete) I have nailed it to the wall, and will use it to weave the Thai back-n-forth in a vertical Screen of Green.

The top of the screen is about 2 meters (just over 6 1/2 feet) I'll garden tape or twist-tie the branches. I'm able to tilt the light to gain some headroom if need be. I'll have to use milk crates to raise the other plants to proper height for about 4-5 months, but that's ok.

Anyway, the pix don't show it, but my lights are adjustable up-n-down, front to back, and side to side. I have eye hooks lined-up on adjustable 2 x 4's that make this possible.

Keeping my fingers crossed for both of us. :thumbsup:

Don't know about the growth inhibitor early, but I'll give it a go if you are hesitant... Depending on the sexes of the seeds, might be on a male, though. I'd like to keep from screwing-up the lady doing something...unfortunate and ill-advised...?

Geez...I sure say " I " a lot...:wtf:

No don't take chances man. I will just wait until I am close to the size I want. I should see some flowers in another week or so, this is a confirmed female that I just kept in veg for....wow, like 9 months now. I like the concrete mesh idea, lots of room.....heavy, but doesn't bend like chicken wire. I may have some old fencing around somewhere to try that

Made a special log here for my species.
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...ml#post2168736