what does everyone think? i think it is the holy ground of marijuana in this country.
Oakland the ground zero of Marijuana
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what does everyone think? i think it is the holy ground of marijuana in this country.
Oakland the ground zero of Marijuana
^ interesting, thank you. I got my card from these guys when I lived out in Bezerkley in 2001. I was really impressed with their whole operation. They were the first to actually explain to me what a vaporizor was and why I needed to use one. :greenthumb: I imagine a lot has changed there now.
I like this idea. Start this narrative now so the voters will know in 2012. I'm sold already, I'm ready for a visit. :jointsmile:
Q: Why we are not hassled for growing under 99 plants?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenghost
A: It's because Imam Obama signed a memo (Executive Order) telling all federal officers not to hassle anyone will less than 99 plants. It was the stroke of a pen by ONE person.
Q: How easy would it be to change that?
A: The stroke of a pen by ONE person. It could even happen as a result of a new King being elected.
Q: In a conflict of federal law v. state law - who trumps?
A: Why, federal law of course. In fact, we actually fought a war (The Civil War) to finally stamp out states rights. States don't get to choose many issues on their own. Among the issues that states have little or no control over are: abortion, education, taxation, defending their borders against illegal aliens (Arizona), and drug laws.
Q: Have the feds made any statements about 'legalizing' marijuana?
A: Yes. On October 16 of this year, (barely a month ago) the San Francisco Chronicle reported that "the Obama administration has denounced Prop 19 ... and promises to vigorously enforce the federal ban on possessing, growing or selling the drug if voters aproved the ballot measure. The pledge came ... from Atty General Eric Holder..."
Q: What does that mean?
A: That means that we got lucky when 19 didn't pass. That means that if it had passed we'd have federal officers kicking in our doors for a closet grow. He told us in plain english that if 19 passes - he will enforce the law as written - with vigor. That means we loose it all. That means that if we keep poking at the bear - we're gunna get bit.
The feds will never allow Oakland, or anyone else to do mega grows of 20,000 plants ... won't happen. You think they won't stop it? Remember Waco? Ruby Ridge? It will look just like that. Federal officers and National Guard fighting Oakland pot heads - taking it all down - with deadly force if necessary.
Is that the kind of face off ya'll want to force? And, the whole time the feds are warning us not to make them do it. They don't WANT to do it.
Marijuana is never going to be legal. Not in our lifetime. It is not legal ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET. There are international treaties involved here - and Oakland isn't going to change that. We live in a time when radicalism is the norm. Extremists everywhere. They push too far on whatever their agenda is.
Marijuana extremists will push till we loose it all. That is my prediction. Enjoy it while you can - it won't last. 99 plants is not enough for the extremists with an agenda.
For sure. Oaksterdam is it. You can have 72 plants with no hassle. I think what Onoya really points out is that even if it is legal you don't want to blow it in peoples faces so to speak. I have a medical license and usually just a small amount of weed so I feel pretty legal as long as I am not on federal land. I still go off to the side somewhere to smoke. I am not doing so out of paranoia as in the past. :smokin: I do feel folks should still be discreet even if it becomes totally legal by the feds and states.
If I need to smoke where people can see and I have no other choice I still smoke but I do use all the common courtesy I can.
It is extremely obvious to me that you do not live in California. They may be harsh about it where you are from, but around here, they are very, very lenient about marijuana. I live about 45 minutes drive from oakland. The atmosphere is entirely different here.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYaDont
Instead of giving you something subjective, I'll give you a fact: STARTING JANUARY 1ST 2010 MARIJUANA IS OFFICIALLY DECRIMINALIZED IN CALIFORNIA. Schwarzenegger signed a bill on his way out that changed the rules when you get caught. Now if you are caught with under an ounce, theres no jail time, no court date, you just get a ticket and all you have to do is pay $100 to the city. Its an infraction, rather than a misdemeanor, so it doesnt even go on your permanent record. Personally, I'll cut checks to the government all day if it means i can smoke without stressing.
source:
California Governor Signs Marijuana Decriminalization Bill | StoptheDrugWar.org
Arnold Schwarzenegger on Leno: 'No One Cares If You Smoke a Joint Or Not - TIME NewsFeed
Say what you want about him, he did a good thing here.
Its crazy to me that you could still think that marijuana will be illegal forever. 46% of Californians want it legal for recreational use. Oakland just authorized four large scale grow ops for mmj. You can get a green card with very little effort, and dispensaries are everywhere. Obama has made marijuana busts the lowest priority for federal forces, and said that he would respect state rights. Its a very slippery slope that will lead to full legalization in the very near future.
In my neighborhood its impossible to walk down the street without smelling it somewhere. two of my neighbors are growing for sure, and one of them is doing it outdoors in a place that is visible from the street. 3/8 of the apartments in my immediate area have at least one mmj patient, and 5/8 smoke for sure.
It may not be legal yet, but it will be in 2012. Maybe it will never be legal where you live, and thats a shame, but we are pretty set out here in NorCal.
-peace.:rasta:
I am a native Californian. I grew up in Contra Costa County (East San Francisco Bay Area) and currently live in Shasta County (just north of Redding). All of the places that I list above are in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - and marijuana is NOT legal in this country.
Your comments are a testiment to the superior attitude and short sighted views that my fellow Californians have in regards to state law v. federal law. This country, and this world, does not revolve around Oakland. It is not the capital of anything important, no matter what 46% of my fellow citizens think.
I stand by these predictions:
1) California will 'legalize' marijuana.
2) Local governments will permit huge grows.
3) Obama will be be replaced by a more conservative president.
4) That new administration will warn California away from point 1 above.
5) California will proceed with point 1 and 2 above.
6) The new admin will reverse policy by disallowing grows of under 99, and medical possession.
7) New admin will suspend federal funding of California law enforcement and highway funds until they comply with federal law.
8) FBI and DEA will bust grows and possession of any size. They will shut down co-ops arresting everyone connected under federal law.
9) Eventually local law enforcement will comply to get their money back (see 7 above).
... and we will have poked the bear once too often, and lost it all.
I hope I am wrong. I really do. I hope the above scenerio does not happen. I think that it will though because Rudy doesnt realize that he is ALWAYS on federal land - it's called the United States of America. He thinks that "Oaksterdam is it" when it isn't. He doesnt understand the difference between 'legal' and 'tolerated and ignored.' It will happen because people like Zugu think that because "Obama has made marijuana busts the lowest priority for federal forces, and said that he would respect state rights" that it will always be that way. Obama won't be in power in a couple of years - and if you make it politically necessary, he WILL change that policy even if he is.
So - we should enjoy it while we got it folks. We got a little more than two years.
For practical purposes in CA there is a huge difference between being on land that the feds patrol like National Parks, National Forests and BLM etc. If you get caught on any of those lands with marijuana your CA medical license it totally invalid.
You may not have noticed that I said "I feel pretty legal" not that I am legal. Your physicians statement is just one argument in your favor if you get busted by a CA agency as opposed to a fed agency. You can definitely get busted for marijuana by federal agents anywhere in the United Stated or its posessions. However they only make an occasional bust outside their "territiory" to try to scare folks from going all out. They arrested a woman in Mendocino Co simply for obtaining a 99 plant permit and posessing the 99 plants permitted. A clear example of the feds "sending a mesage". Many other folks have applied for the same permit without being hassled at all.
Total legalization I predict is inevitable. The last two presidents have been admitted stoners and or alchoholics and look where it got them.
Alright Chicken Little, have your way. The sky's falling.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYaDont
keep your predictions, theyre not gonna happen. that would be rediculous if the federal government went up against california like that. its the eighth largest economy on the planet. we could easily survive without the federal government. if the federal government is going to try to push through a state's rights issue, theyre gonna do it with a much weaker state. rhode island, wyoming, iowa... they know how to pick a fight they can win. and a fight with california is one they can not win.
just because youre within the borders of this country doesnt mean the government owns your land. you own land if you purchased it yourself, or your landlord owns that land. thats private property. the government can not take legally your property. similarly, some land is state owned. hell, land in foreign consulates is owned by foreign countries. its NOT federal land. the constitution, bill of rights, current laws, and the supreme court are all on your side in this case. its a basic fact of civics.
and again, your "conservative president"? we just had bush for eight years, and he didnt kill medical marijuana. we're probably not gonna elect anyone worse than him for a while. are you expecting some kind of v for vendetta scenario?
I agree with OhNoYaDont. Right now weed is already legal essentially, and a nice subculture that is hassle free and community based has formed around it.
Remember hen your favorite band sold out and went corporate? That is what prop 19 would have done. This is a good thing we have going here, throwing it in everyones faces will lead to bad things. The tobacco nazi types would mandate that every bag of mj have some warning from the surgeon general or some such nonsense.
Zugu: The sky is not falling. Everything is just fine - and will remain that way as long as we don't stir up a big stink. Check your basic fact of civics to see which trumps: State law or federal law. California is not going to war with the USA over this. We already fought a civil war over states rights, and that issue has been decided. If/when the feds cut off the money - the California politicians will fold. Do you really doubt that? Also, Bush didn't go after MJ because we didn't try to "legalize it" when he was King.
Rudy: Your California recommendation is (according the the feds) irrelevant. They ignore the law in some cases because their boss says they are to ignore it. The fed law says that MJ is illegal. Period. IF their boss changes his policy, and they want to enforce that law, they can. Even on private property. RIGHT NOW they only make occasional busts outside of federal lands - what I am saying is that CAN change. And, it can. Should we rock the boat? I think we got it pretty good right now. Also ... you think you own "private property"? Stop paying your taxes and see who owns it. That is a lie, you don't own anything.
John: Prop 19 would have done much worse than big biz ...
he tried but he couldn't for the very simple fact that we don't kings in the U.S. We have a system of federalism that allows both local laws and local law enforement and national laws and national law enforement.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYaDont
Was the State of New York "poking the bear" when they ended their state alcohol prohibition laws ten years before the end of federal alcohol prohibition? No. They were using their constitutional right to set their own local State laws. This is how national policy is made in our united states.
but, I'm not going to argue this any more. if you guys want to believe that we need to bow down to the "king" then go ahead. :D
Regardless of how you feel about the present state of the law you should not blow weed in peoples faces literally and so to speak. In a town near my property I see folks walking out of the collective with boxes of clones plainly visible.
School is not out and people need to be cool to the feelings of others to keep the status quo. Please don't blow the cool deal we have with weed by flaunting it.:smokin:
Portland is the hub of all the strange kids from school have grown up and moved here. We are all about cheap herb and not ripping off eachother. We all eat well thats not a problem we are just not greedy. OAKSTERDAM is the worst and the clinics there. They charge max street prices and pay next to nothing for thier herb. It is sick that is why we voted it down in portland the growers didnt want this to turn into greedy California. Any time you get involved with Normyl the cops show up. i dont know how it is down in California but they are connected with the feds here. I would stay away from them. We do our own thing here grow everywhere even studio apartments . Anywhere in this cty to grow they do it. And nobody cares and we dont see shootouts on the news over grow houses getting robbed by mexicans. I love Portland.