Would you buy this vertical growing unit?

I have some friends working with a company who is designing an aeroponic vertical grow system.The system is around 5 square feet and 5 ft high. It utilizes 5 sets of circular rings that each have 20 plant sites similar to Ez-Clone's machine (neoprene puck with a plastic puck collar)- total of 100 plant sites. The system is meant to be used as in an Alpha/Omega style grow (from cuttings to harvest). With recent tests this system has yielded on average .5 oz/plant, totaling 50 oz utilizing one vertically hung 600w HPS bulb and no CO2 implementation. The total cycle is obviously strain dependent, however the test grows have been completed in 11 to 12 weeks, cuttings to harvest.

The system would come with:
20 Gallon reservoir
High Flow/High Pressure Pump with necessary hosing attachments
Electronic emergency pump failure valve utilizing a standard garden hoses as an inlet and a drain
Digital ballast 120/240V, dimmable to 1000w, 750w, 600w
Lamp socket for HID bulbs as well as an additional CFL lamp socket (for the cloning stage)
A cycle stat pump timer

The system would come in multiple boxes. The parts are mostly pre-assembled. The parts require no glue to attach the PVC Aero tubing, making assembly and dis-assembly very easy. The user has the option to use the recommended 600w bulb, a 750w, or a 1000w.

The unit would be available in most local hydro stores as well as for order on the web and directly from the manufacturer.

The tentative price is ~$1999.00

Attached is a 3D rendering of what the base unit will resemble. This is obviously w/out the res, pump, lights,etc.

Opinions are welcome.

Eh looks like heath robinsons flooded vertical tube to me, but done with aeroponics, should yield well.

My local hydro shop tried to sell something similar. It seems like a nice idea, taking advantage of verticle space, but you can do the same thing without stuff like that. Even if all you do is stack plants on cardboard boxes, there are easier ways to make the most of a grow space. The plants usually have to grow inward as they grow upward, and how do you control them? How do keep them from falling over or falling out? You'd have to tie them up. This kind of thing seems more trouble than it's worth.

I think they're going to suggest using the wire fence you see that comes in rolls. It wouldn't take much to make a small circle at whatever diameter you wanted inside the unit. I guess that would be a SCROG approach.

Sorry. I voted no as I don't go for all that fancy schmancy new fangled stuff. Back in my day we used to make things to set the plants on. We called them "shelves".
Doc Oc.

I understand what purpose a shelf has. The whole idea behind vertical growing isn't to be "fancy schmancy" it's to conserve electricity and space. It's a better use of the bulb.

the only problem is someone could be a similar rig for a couple of hundered dollars and a bit of research. there is nothing in that setup that can justify the price. the pump is the most expensive part, and about $150 retail. thanks, but not thanks.


-shake

I may have stated this already, but this rig cannot be built for a couple hundred dollars. The ballast alone costs a couple hundred dollars. The pump cost a couple hundred dollars. Try finding the rounded pipe, at all. There is a res, light sockets, and an emergency valve in case of pump failure. The mark up isn't too high on this unit, it costs a decent amount to produce this system. Just some things to consider before you realize the DIY costs and man hours attached to this kind of project, and time to most people means money.

which digital ballast does it include? which pump does it include? or what's the GPH? why would finding round pcv be hard? it's not as if it has to be build exaclty to your engineering sample/drawing. it could be square or rectangle and accmoplish the same feat.


-shake

hey headshake,
it includes a 1000 watt 120/240v dimmable digital ballast with 1000, 750, and 600w settings. The pump is a 50 psi/27 GPH pump. As far as the PVC rings, it's something that is unique to the system because as far as I know you can't buy PVC with that curvature in that size, I could be wrong. Sure, you can make use of an octagon shape, the down side is all the 45º pieces. I know they're not as cheap as using two solid pieces to create a ring, with 2 couplings. Also, with all the connectors you have to watch for leaks if you're going to be able to pull the ring apart to remove any root debris after each growâ?? this system uses gasketed fitting that can be pulled apart and reattached without glue. With a rectangle you're already losing efficiency because of the dead space in the corners. But, ultimately this isn't for a DIY type person as far as we can see. This kind of turnkey system was meant (as someone stated previously somewhere) for the beginner and for the professional who doesn't have time to build his own. And considering the price margin for some other vertical grow systems, this price point isn't too bad, and as the journal will show, it's efficiency is pretty decent, maybe not the best but pretty decent. I appreciate your comments.

Sorry meant to say 50 psi / 27 GPM pump, not 27 GPH.

"As far as the PVC rings, it's something that is unique to the system because as far as I know you can't buy PVC with that curvature in that size"

Took three seconds on Google on the term "Curved PVC pipe" to find three Chinese manufacturers. Also, taking a straight PVC pipe, heating it to 160F, and gently wrapping it around a 55-gallon drum is pretty simple to do.

As a hydroponic systems engineer, I have to agree with shake, there's nothing in that system to warrant the price. A multitap transformer with a selector switch can be had for $50 for 1000, 750, or 600w operation. The water pump, at 27GPM, could be found at a Home Depot for $30-50 for use in outdoor ponds or as high speed sump pumps. The sprayers, those are a dime a dozen.

http://imgur.com/et5Qfl.jpg

There's one of mine. Shed, automated controls, filters, monitoring system, everything included.

why a dim-able ballast? and a dim-able ballast means it's digital. and every digital (and most magnetic ballasts) are from China. is it UL/CE certified? i can find the galaxy brand ballast for $400 full retail.

also, i'm not a pump master, but i can't find a single water pump that list PSI. every single one i see is in gallons per hour. 27 GPM x 60 mins= 1620 GPH. wouldn't the PSI be determined by the length of the line runs and the nozzles used? agiain, not a pump expert. what is the max height the pump will run? i can find a pump at full retail for ~$150.

also, what is the height of each ring? i would assume 12" since there are 5 rings and the unit has a height of 5'. one 1000W HID bulb in the middle and centered doesn't make the unit all that efficient for the top and bottom rings at least (i would assume).
you might be better off with a dual 600W or 1000W as opposed to the dim-able ballast.

so i can get the ballast for $400, and the pump for $150 (both full retail, i know i can find them both for much cheaper, but we'll use these numbers). so that puts us at a cost of $550 for the "guts" of the rig. that leaves us with your round PVC, some tubing and some nozzles and a 20-gal res....oh and the price of putting it together. is it made in the USA? what parts are made in the USA?

speaking of a 20 gallon res, shouldn't there be a bigger one? not a dro expert either, but 50 plant sites and a 20 gallon res? just a thought.

i'm not trying to argue or say your product is crap, but i do like my purchases to be solidified in logic. you can also expect me to challenge anything posted on these forums. just the way that it is. thanks for the information.

finally, there are 10 holes in the top of each ring, couldn't you clean via those holes and not need the special connections?


-shake

well in my experience there's always someone who is an engineer of
some sort that can reverse engineer a product and find ways to make it cheaper. You can order things in china, you can spec out parts from home depot or lowes, and finally build it yourself. The bottom line is, these are not the target customers. As an example, there are people who have been buying EZ clones off the shelves for upwards of $300 dollars for a number of years now, but can you build a comparable unit for much less, yes.
This company also engineers and manufactures LEDs for horticulture, and it's the same thing with LEDs, a consumer can look at the specs on those and have it replicated for about half the cost in china even if they're specing their diodes from US or European companies. Most hydroponic/grow products cannot justify their price, they're almost always over priced, yet people are buying them more now than ever. If you can replicate something, have the time and money and know-how, then I say do it, and save a few bucks.

As far as the res size, which has come up before, 20 gallons is more than enough to provide for the unit, but it depends on the spray times, something they've figured out. And as far as the height to light coverage ratio, a 600 works fine, a 750 works better, and 2 600 watts work best. But the GPW is negatively affected after you leave the 600w mark.

There's always something to speculate on, and I'm sure all this feedback is appreciated by my buddies. But as far as the DIY aspect it concerned, I don't think that listing the ways in which you can spec, design, and build a unit for yourself is too helpful to this system as far as productivity is concerned.

Thanks for the feedback though fellas.

also khyber,

almost forgetting about the pump, could you post a link where I could find a pump matching our pump for $40-50 dollars so that I can show my friends? That is a lot cheaper than what they're getting it for.

Thanks,

A

Hello atlashomeric,

I'd like to point out the first major problem is calling this a "aeroponic" system. You can not do "true aeroponic growing" or TAG system with a pump that only delivers 50psi. What you have is "fake aeroponic growing" or FAG system :(. This is simply a hydroponic spray. Google "aeroponic" and see what it means please.

Check my album to see the construction of "fogfognugen" that is an aero/fog grow tray setup. The pump side for aero operates in the 200psi ballpark.
Or use the site seach or under my statistics to find my thread "aero/fog LED grow table". While it is completely different design, it shows what a True Aeroponic Growing system does, it creates a root zone that is a fine mist or fog.

But go ahead and market it, I'm sure many folks who don't bother to read and learn, will be sucked in for $2k.

Good luck
OM

hey oldmac,
If it isn't true aeroponics I'd think it's pretty close. I mean if anything FAG is easier to maintain than a 100 psi system I'm sure. Plus, it's not the main selling point of this system. The point is that every component works together to produce a great yield at a great GPW efficiency. It's not like someone is 'not' going to buy the unit because it doesn't have a NASA aero setup and yet still knowing that they could be getting around 3 lbs per run on a 600 watt HPS in the system. I'm a little stoned but I think that makes sense :wtf: So, to clarify, TAG or FAG, I really don't think it'll sell any better or less. That was my insight into the matter. Thanks for comments,

A

Oldmac and I have fought this battle time and again on these forums. There is a huge difference between low pressure and high pressure in terms of delivery. Personally, I have yet to be convinced that the results are any different, but then again I totally failed. I started hitech too and the more complicated it got, the more shit I threw into a big box to sit. 14 months later I still do not have a car in my garage from all the shit I bought and threw out.

I have seen a unit like this only with sliding curtains, hard solid curtains, perhaps to seal the space for c02. The only difference in their design and yours other then the round tubes, was that their unit got wider I thought at the top. Seems to me that if you dont create an inverted cone, then the plants at the bottom have a hard time competing with the plants up top. I believe that when you look at these units from the top down, you will see that each plant is spaced appropriately horizontally and not stacked on top of each other like yours will be.

No fogging system or aero system is going to benefit this design. You need to be thinking in terms of NFT systems. Think about your roots. They are going to grow along those tubes and lie flat. They wont be suspended for long and as the weeks go by the more those tubes will fill with thick long roots. Fine, no big deal, just use a NFT type system and flood the tubes with nutes to cover the roots. Make sure and slant all tubes for proper drainage no matter what you do.

2k is way over priced. No sale. Think in terms of cost of labor and price of material, not arbitrary numbers that look good on your balance sheet. 90% of the time we are talking about pricing structures equal to about 100 to 200% mark up of cost. This typically factors in labor. Don't be thinking your entitled to 200% then labor costs too. People dont care that it took you 18 months to put it together, that just makes you look all the more retarded.

You should be looking at the new designs coming out on hydro systems. All of them are bubble systems of one design or another. That's where you need to focus your energy. Take a 20 dollar tub of plastic, slap your name on it and call it the Bubble Master 2k10 then charge 45$ on eBay. China is world power number one not because of quality but because of quantity. There are too many poor people in the world to give a shit about quality these days. Besides, what do you know of quality hydroponics? Seriously? What do you know? Just because you can use a CAD program, doesn't mean you understand why certain designs are the way they are.

Finally, I'll add this. Out of all the ballot measures I saw last night only 2 of the dozens or more marijuana initiatives passed and even those were non binding state questions. What that tells me is that most of the country is still uneasy about what will happen when their 21 year old baby is gonna be allowed to purchase pot at the local 7-11. As such we are still not ready to industrialize pot production in this country and until then, a system like that does nothing more then increase potential jail time. Your customer base are people like me who openly scream bloody murder on the net but then hide in the shadows of public. Cabinet growers are your target market. The one thing I have not seen made available is a total cab grow. This would include T5's or LED's and some sort of bubble bucket system. Price it like a wal-mart paintball gun and your up and running. It wont be till that sucker goes to the field will he realize he got took! (any fucktard that thinks he can take me on the field with a wal-mart special will have to meet my friend EGO)

Keep It Simple Stupid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atlashomeric

well in my experience there's always someone who is an engineer of
some sort that can reverse engineer a product and find ways to make it cheaper. You can order things in china, you can spec out parts from home depot or lowes, and finally build it yourself. The bottom line is, these are not the target customers. As an example, there are people who have been buying EZ clones off the shelves for upwards of $300 dollars for a number of years now, but can you build a comparable unit for much less, yes.
This company also engineers and manufactures LEDs for horticulture, and it's the same thing with LEDs, a consumer can look at the specs on those and have it replicated for about half the cost in china even if they're specing their diodes from US or European companies. Most hydroponic/grow products cannot justify their price, they're almost always over priced, yet people are buying them more now than ever. If you can replicate something, have the time and money and know-how, then I say do it, and save a few bucks.

As far as the res size, which has come up before, 20 gallons is more than enough to provide for the unit, but it depends on the spray times, something they've figured out. And as far as the height to light coverage ratio, a 600 works fine, a 750 works better, and 2 600 watts work best. But the GPW is negatively affected after you leave the 600w mark.

There's always something to speculate on, and I'm sure all this feedback is appreciated by my buddies. But as far as the DIY aspect it concerned, I don't think that listing the ways in which you can spec, design, and build a unit for yourself is too helpful to this system as far as productivity is concerned.

Thanks for the feedback though fellas.

---

i like how you ask for feedback, and then when you get it you don't take it to heart. i pointed out flaw after flaw in your system and your only response was "you aren't the target market". the target market is the black market obviously. only people who sell their product with no regards for others throw money away blindly. this is a medicinal MJ site (not that all users here are), so most of us don't throw money blindly on claims alone. we like to see PROOF! and until you provide PROOF, expect someone here to challenge your claims.

by your own admission the ballast that you are selling it with is underpowered. if the bulb is, let's say, 12", then that is the height of ONE ring. so how do the other 4 get great light?

you also failed to answer all of my questions that i posted. i find it hard to believe that i reversed engineered it, as i haven't seen an engineering sample, only that shitty mock-up that looks like it was done by a 4 year old.

if you bothered to read my post i said i could find the pump for $150 full retail. if you are truly in mass-market production you aren't paying anything close to this for your pumps. i have personally worked in a hydroponics store. i KNOW first hand what the markup is. the only reason the sales are going up is because state after state is starting to allow for MMJ. just like the laws of supply and demand, the more of a product that is available, the lower the price. i can buy a aeroflo2, 60 site system for ~$800 and then add the 60 site extension for another ~$600. so riddle me again how this is a great deal. because it takes up 5 square feet? i'm still failing to see the value in this product.


-shake

hey headshake,
On my last few posts I wasn't trying to answer every question, instead just a couple from each person, with the majority of them being khyber's. As far as me stating that this kind of site doesn't necessarily cater to the customer base involved on these sites, it still kind of stands. If you can't find something that convinces YOU to buy it, then don't; this survey was just suppose to be an initial probe to see what the interest is in these type of units. I'm sure the design will be changed anyways before production models come out. As far as the ballast, it's built in the USA and is rated for 1000 watts. Concerning it's coverage, I know from their previous test and where they got their initial idea that one 600w was sufficient for the exact dimensions that defines this unit, and the yield was large enough to pay for this unit three to five fold depending on where you live.

As far as throwing away money is concerned then you've probably been had just like the majority of hydro growers on the high mark ups and unsubstantiated claims. I know that this company is just about to start a journaled grow with this unit that will include details and photos. They're doing this to show that the unit works before people even have to consider buying it. As far as the price, I don't know what to say, except that if you scroll back it says "tentative" as a rough prediction because final costs haven't been calculated.

It sounds like you're offended in some way too. The "shitty mock-up" was a solidworks drawing just to give people an idea of what the systems looked like. I had an actual photo posted but was instructed by the company to take it down until further notice.

Have you had a lot of work with vertical growing, because to be honest it doesn't sound like you quite understand some of the concepts involved that would be apparent if you had worked with a vertical grow. I say this with respect.

A

i appreciate your uncandid approach ALH. i mean no disrespect with my posts either. you have not offended me. and my choice of words could have been better with "shitty mockup", i do apologize. you asked for feedback, i gave feedback. honest, unadultrated feedback. all, in my opinion, valid points, with no ill-will cast your way. i merely used what you posted in your side of things and dissected it and rebutted, such as any good debate, er, constructive conversation.

i don't have any hands on experience with vertical growing, but i have a great grasp on how plants work and i also understand physics and light works.

i did see the part about tentatively priced. if you read just below that you said that opinions are welcome, and i felt free to post mine.


-shake

OK boys and girls, let me see if I can shed some light as to why this thing bothers me. It seems headshake has hit upon one of the things that bothers me, lack of reading comprehension. Atlashomeric, I read your reply to me early this AM, but decided to go back to bed and sleep on it. My original intent was to just leave you with one snarky post then forget it, but you're reply bothers me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atlashomeric

hey oldmac,
If it isn't true aeroponics I'd think it's pretty close.
No it is not. There is a major difference between between aero and water culture hydro.
You are using the word "aeroponic" to sell the thing, even tho it is not aeroponics.

I mean if anything FAG is easier to maintain than a 100 psi system I'm sure.
I said a 200psi sytem, and again you are wrong. In a TAG system the on cycle time is about 5 seconds with off times rangeing from fifteen to thirty minute off. Your pump is going to have to run much longer in it's on time (ie: 10-15 minutes) and will have to cycle more often. At 50psi you are going to have more problems with clogging and such, with higher pressure this is less of a problem even tho it requires misters that are much smaller. I use pumps by either Aquatec or SurFlo, these are a lot more rugged then some chinese crap 50psi pump.

Plus, it's not the main selling point of this system. The point is that every component works together to produce a great yield at a great GPW efficiency. It's not like someone is 'not' going to buy the unit because it doesn't have a NASA aero setup and yet still knowing that they could be getting around 3 lbs per run on a 600 watt HPS in the system.
This is what really rubs me the wrong way, this is total BS! This is the same marketing hype used by the sellers of cheap, chinese LED grow lights. Oh this 90w LED will repalce a 600w HPS or even 400w, it's just BS, that has caused oh so many uninformed to buy and then been disappointed. These people then run around screaming LEDs don't work!

Doing a little quick math, to get 3lbs (I'm assumming dried, cured bud) that means you need to achieve almost 1/2oz per plant (actual 13.44gr). Your new or average grower will be sorely disappointed. As Rusty has in his signature:

Your disappointments grow in direct proportions to your expectations - RustyTrichome

I'm a little stoned but I think that makes sense :wtf: So, to clarify, TAG or FAG, I really don't think it'll sell any better or less.
OK so this is either a pipe dream or you are just interested in selling crap to the uninformed. Seems you are just interested in selling something then in being accurate in it's discription or it's potential to grow.

That was my insight into the matter. Thanks for comments,
A

---

Tell you what A,
I've been growing cannabis in one form or another now for 70yrs. The past 20 have been with what are called advanced systems, such as NFT. My personal grow for the past 6 yrs is a rotating garden and in the last few years experimenting then building aero/fog systems. I have a pretty good grasp of SOG size plants and think I have a handle on what is possible.

I'm willing to bet good money you cannot achieve 3lbs per run with it, even if you went to 1000w light. Wanna bet?
BTW before you ask me about vertical growing, no I have not done it. I checked out a Coliseum a year or so ago for use with a Theroreme Innovations LED vertical grow light, was interested but passed on it to move on to aero/fog.
OM

hey oldmac,
Sorry I didn't mean to rub anybody the wrong way. As of now, my intent wasn't to sell this product; it's not even in production. As far as I know the next step is going to be a journal grow on a few sites like this.
Concerning aeroponics, I'm not an expert, either is the company that builds the product. I may have talked about TAG systems but I know that you're right in saying it's not true aeroponics. But, to play the devil's advocate a little, there quite a few products that are hot sellers right now that are labeled as "aeroponic" and are not. I know that the general population of growers thinks "aeroponic" when they hear there are sprayers. That is the marketing that the company is going with concerning the nutrient delivery... what doesn't confuse people. Because YES, they could advertise it as a NFT/Hydro/Faux Aero System, but that would confuse most buyers. So if they have to advertise as faux aero, then so be it.

Concerning the pump times, this systems is on for a matter of seconds too. Not that it makes it anyless faux aero, but just to clarify. In test runs, there hasn't been any problems with clogging due to an inline filter. I'm not certain of where the pump is originated from either, could be china, not sure. From what I've seen it's pretty durable unit though that's lasted through the entire R&D process.

As for the expected yield, you're right, most new and average growers will not be pulling in 0.5 oz per plant, in fact they may not be able to keep all 100 plants alive as far as I know. But for sales purposes, it will be sold under the premise that it is POSSIBLE to yield 0.5 oz per plant. And why not, it will help sell it, and it's not a lie.

If you want to see a journal grow that yielded more than .5 oz per plant from one 600w HPS light in a system with almost the exact dimensions as this units check out this link.

Heaths flooded tube vertical.

He used a flooded system with I think 14 fewer plants than this system and got 46 oz dry. It's a long journal but definitely worth the read.

Also, I noticed you said you've had 70yrs growing experience, how old are you? I mean at least 80 right? And you're hitting up these forums and growing with these new types of growing too, that's awesome for someone your age. I commend you sir or ma'am.

However, even with A LOT of experience growing under your belt, I can't really use too much of your criticism on the efficiency aspect of the unit if you haven't had any vertical growing experience (I have only assisted in a few grows myself). Yes, it's based on the same principles of growing as horizontal, but where I think people get tripped up is the spacial arrangement issue. If you've only used horizontal grow techniques your whole career as a grower then there will inevitably be some speculation into different methods.
I hope to keep these discussions clean and respectful. Thanks,

A

For the record, this company engineers and manufactures LEDs too. So they're aware of marketing hype in the industry. But what I'm doing isn't marketing hype because I haven't and will not disclose the company's name or contact info. It's just research and development procedure.

Apologies, the 27GPM pump I was thinking of ended up being a manual pump, not an automatic.

Hey Atlashomeric,

Seen/saw the Heath flooded tube, and I see you relize that it is not aeroponic, it is in fact an "ebb & flo" system. Sooo you are comparing apple/oranges for growing methods. Fine.

Yes I am old (and you can call me sir) nearly 81. I've been providing mmj to cancer patients and people in hospice care for 25+ years now. Since I pre-date most medical mj and live in a non med state, I provide meds for no cost to patients. I also provide plant starts, usually in Pro-Mix to some other cancer and Aids groups in nearby towns, for them to grow out. I started out at age 10 on a tobacco farm, but we grew 2 types of hemp. I now now the tall lanky fiber plants was an Indian sativa and we grew russian hemp, which I now know was a ruderalis; for seeds to be pressed out for oil. At age 12 I was shown what the workers were doing in the hedge rows, growing female only seedless stuff. It wasn't till years later I realized it was marijuana, I knew it as "wild wood weed".

I still think the 3lb/600w is total BS, the only way to reach that would be to use co2, properly and even then with a 1kw HPS.

I'll give you credit for maintaining your composure as compared to most hucksters.

I would make one suggestion, lower the plant count by 1, to 99 to stay under federal law.

Good luck
OM

it's pretty funny as well that you guys basically ripped off someone's design, have the audacity to post the link to it....not to mention the original makes use of 45degree pieces. lol. flex pvc would work just as well for this.

good point Old Mac, er, sir. they really have their customers in mind, thinking of the laws and all don't they.

and to top it all off they are using mis-leading advertising hype. .5 GPW, aeroponics etc etc. and the line "Concerning it's coverage, I know from their previous test and where they got their initial idea that one 600w was sufficient for the exact dimensions that defines this unit, and the yield was large enough to pay for this unit three to five fold depending on where you live" just goes to prove that all your are is a salesman. trying to sell the sizzle, not the steak.


-shake

Call me a salesman, but like I said before, I'm not a part of this company and
I'm not disclosing any info about this company that would allow you to purchase the unit, if they were even selling the unit. But if people start speculating on "tentative" price in comparison to the possible yield and efficiency then I'm of course going to comment on that aspect in response. As far as taking a design and essentially adding to it, that has been happening since the beginning of time, at least they're not hiding who the original architect is. Heath really knows his stuff when it comes to horticultural design, I know personally that he wasn't going to try and patent or market his system.
I think it would only be advertising if there were a product at hand, as of now there is a prototype that is in stages of testing. If you can figure out who the company that sells this product is through what info there is here then I'll call myself a salesman.
Otherwise like I said, right now I'm noting the constructive feedback and reporting is to the company. Thanks,

A

So what's the grams per kilowatt-hour?

Grams per kilowatt hour, I don't know. It's not as high in California ;)

You mention a better yield with two 600w. Why not sell the unit this way? If it's already been R&D'd enough to get three pounds, why not a single flippin' pic? I figure with two 600w I'd get prolly 5 pounds. Too bad they can only be 6 inch tall plants with no side shoots. Your best bet would be to scour the internet for any mention of Heath's $1000 dollar lunar module grow room and take out any servers holding that info. Two G's for hula hoops is silly. FAIL.

Cabighed,
I mentioned that there will be a grow journal posted very soon for this unit. As far as adding two 600w's, that's totally possible but up to the grower. The idea for this system was based off of Heath's unit. We added a few other things to the mix including aero and a ballast. His unit came out to be about $1000 USD. Ours can't be made by us for less than $1000 USD at the moment, and that doesn't include labor. But, I'm guessing that if Heath was going to market his product it would go for somewhere around 2000 if he charged for his labor costs. So with a recent grow this has yielded well using almost the exact same situation as Heath. If the unit isn't impressive enough the way it is then there will inevitably be modifications.

Since the tentative price doesn't seem to be sitting well for most of the DIY crowd, I would suggest sourcing the parts, adding up the man hours, and doing a cost analysis to see if this could realistically can be had for much cheaper. If so, and you're interested, build a vertical unit.

My current parts sources and time-to-assembly calculations put the cost at around $600 USD, and that's using the specialized channels I have. Go with regular PVC piping, and the price drops to about 400.

Oh, and this would be re-rigged for NFT, not sprayers.

Hey Khyber,
If you think the average Joe could build this unit for $400-600 and keep it aero, can I see the parts list and where you're sourcing them? Because if it's possible to save that much money on this project I'd like to know how. Thanks,

A

For one, cut your costs by using smaller pumps, one to control each level. That drastically drops pump cost.

Instead of individual sprayers, get a sprayer hose line, drill 1/64" holes in it. Clip it down. Less clog, pretty much the exact same spray.

Dunno where you're finding the PVC tubing (I know Home Depot doesn't carry 4" typically in any useful length for this kind of system,) but I am quite sure you can find it cheaper elsewhere, though you might have to wait on a lead time. Most global manufacturers can do direct for cheap if you can order by the container load.

4-way PVC joints and the two-sided end fittings for closing the end of the ring can be found at varying prices depending upon quantity ordered. Buying in large stock as if you were planning on selling these out will drop your prices and allow you to sell more.

Just sayin from experience, from helping to run a Chinese restaurant to running this business, when you want quantity sold, you need quantity bought, and then more.

Thanks Khyber and everyone else for all the advice and insight. Hope this can all be translated into a solid final design. Somebody will soon be posting a journal of the unit very soon, might be me, might not.

A

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atlashomeric

Hey Khyber,
If you think the average Joe could build this unit for $400-600 and keep it aero, can I see the parts list and where you're sourcing them? Because if it's possible to save that much money on this project I'd like to know how. Thanks,

A

---

seriously?! WTF? hey Khyber, can you do all of my research for me too? ROTFLMAO! we are supposed to believe that this is a for real company and you are coming on a medicinal cannabis site trying to get "feedback", didn't like all you were hearing and once you were told how to improve/make cheaper the unit, you want specific parts and prices and places to acquire them? the shit that he is telling you is business 101.

WOW. don't think there is much else that can be said.



-shake

I don't understand why someone is taking offense to anything I've written. What questions haven't I answered? Also, why is it so faux-pas to take advice on sourcing parts from someone who's tag is "I design grow lights for horticultural firms across the globe, and not just LED either, ask me anything!" When did it become a crime to come onto these sites and ask for advice on a project, or how to build it, whether it's being marketed or not? The the best place to grab info on a product is from the products users right? I know khyber has a good background in this industry, so I'm asking and he's giving me info. I've noted every criticism about this system, and intend on giving it to the company. What else do you want?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

Sorry. I voted no as I don't go for all that fancy schmancy new fangled stuff. Back in my day we used to make things to set the plants on. We called them "shelves".
Doc Oc.

---

That was just straight-up funny!Rotflmao:thumbsup: