N-G-W.com 1/2 black/blue hose is TOXIC PLEASE READ!!!

Warning new off gassing product!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I have been experiencing a mysterious yellowing for about 10 months. Every thing that went into one of my 11 different rooms (some that had been going 5+ years) started to yellow and eventually die. My first instinct was my ph I checked my pens, they were not very far off but I calibrated and bought new probes anyways. That did nothing. Then we suspected the nutes, maybe we got a bad batch. I had bought 6 gallon jugs and filled all my 1 galâ??s up off the same batch. Call the company run the batch numbers and they say they are 18 months old, So we went out bought new nutes and nothing changed. So after that I figured my favorite brand had fallen off and we decided to try another brand. We go buy $1000 worth of canna. And we thought possibly it could be something with our clones so we picked up a batch of clones from an LA club. Same thing new nutes new genetics same yellowing. So now I am scratching my head start making some calls visit a bunch of other rooms, and at least 20 in my immediate area have this same mystery problem. So I do some research find out we are all on the same water supply. I found 4 rooms on another water district doing bitching so I say BINGO, It must be the water. We go out and buy a 275 gallon tote and start buying water from this other district. A real pain in the ass I might add we had to do 2-3 trips a week to meet our demands. Same problem. We start doing testing 1st water test, 2nd tissues sample, I have a horticulturist come and look at things. He suggests an Iron def. We get our tests back everything looks good. We do a tissue sample off a room that is doing good compare our results and everything is fine. Except my plants still look like shit. So I emailed my test results to my original nute company they pass it around the office and let everyone take a look at it. I get a call a couple of days later from them and he asks me if I have ever considered off gassing. What is crazy is the night before I found a thread on the hydro huts and was showing my partner how Identical it looked. So now we go to our rooms and start looking around at what it could possibly be. Like I said some rooms had been going in the same location with nothing changed in about 5 years. There is only 1 new product that we had replaced the ½ tube that connects all the buckets. I started to call around and every room that was having the problem had replaced there tube with the new stuff. The 4 rooms that were doing good were using old hose and was just washing it out. So being lazy saved theses guys who would of thought. I have been talking to the company that made the offending tube for 4 months and they do not wish to resolve this problem even though I have proof that the toxic chemical is in the tube. We have done GC/MS testing, LC/MS, testing and FT IR testing that show conclusively that the chemical Diisobutyl phthalate is in the tube. This is the same chemical that caused the problems with the hydro huts. If you are having a mysterious yellowing and are using NGW tube replace it immediately and please respond to this thread. I am going to be working on a class action against these guys. I have some of the worlds top experts on the matter willing to testify and do any research needed to win this case. The idiots printed there names on the tube it has n-g-w.com printed every foot, so it is easy to identify.


Here is a brief description of what the phthalate does to the plants.

The toxicity caused by a volatile constituent from certain samples of flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
was due to dibutyl or diisobutyl phthalate (DBP or DIBP) plasticisers. It has caused serious financial
losses in the horticultural industry. The two phthalate esters have low volatilities, so any toxicity lasts
for many years. Radish (Raphanus sativus L. cv. Cherry Belle) seedlings, exposed to an air stream
containing 160-180 ng dm~3 of butyl phthalates developed chlorotic leaves within 3-4 d and died
within 12 d. Neither dioctyl nor diisodecyl phthalate (DOP nor DIDP) produced damage in the test
plants. Measurements of photosynthetic and respiratory gas exchange in intact shoots of affected
radishes showed that photosynthesis was severely inhibited whilst respiration was virtually
unaffected. Electron micrographs of sections from young leaves showed disruption of thylakoid
formation and granal stacking. In mature leaves, thylakoids and grana were well formed but
chloroplasts were swollen and the thylakoids were pushed towards the vacuolar side of the
chloroplast. Sensitivity to toxic phthalates varies between species; all members of the Crucifcrae tested
were susceptible, tomato less so, and lettuce and ryegrass were resistant. Toxicity of DIBP, from PVC
glazing strip, caused a reduction in crop value of £20000 per acre per year in commercially grown,
monocrop tomatoes.




The effects of phthalate esters on chlorophyll a2 fluorescence in radish plants (Raphanus sativus L. cv.
Cherry Belle) were examined Fluorescence yield was increased in those plants exposed to an aerial
concentration of 120 ng dm"3 dibutyl phthalate (DBP) at a rate of 3-0 dm3 min"1 for 13 d.
Comparison of fluorescence enhancement ratios and Fr^/F01 suggests that DBP inhibits photosynthesis
in radish plants at a site after QA. Both DBP and diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) strongly
inhibited uncoupled (PS2 + PS1) electron transport rates in thylakoids isolated from spinach. At a
chlorophyll concentration of 10 /ig cm"3 the concentrations of DBP and DIBP exhibiting 50%
inhibition were 44 mmol m " 3 and 42 mmol m " 3 respectively. Basal electron transport rates were also
inhibited, with 87 mmol m"3 of DBP or DIBP producing 50% inhibition. Measurement of
photosystem 1 activity suggested that the main site of action of these phthalates was localized at a site
near the reducing side of photosystem 2.


ECA #10281

The analysis of the samples has been completed and the results are given below. The sample information is:
__________________________________________________ ________________
Customer Identification: PVT Tube
Sample #: 10281a
Date Received: 7-12-10
Test Requested: Identification and Quantification of Phthalate(s)
USP <851> FTIR with quantitative extraction.

Sample Results
PVT Tube
15.95% diisobutylphthalate
FTIR spectrum matches well with diisobutylphthalate library spectra and reference standard.

look familiar

Crazy stuff and thanks for sharing, must have been a nightmare trying to figure out what the hell was going on. Again, thanks for passing on the great details.

So I had a meeting with my lawyer today we decieded to proceed with the case. Even though they threatened us with FEDERAL LAW. whatever this is about proving a point. DON'T SELL TOXIC PRODUCTS.

Late night horror stories
Man, this is some bullshit... I'm pretty damned sure that this has been my problem all along... I've been thinking for months and months that I'm retarded and just can't "get" hydro... I've been listening to everything that everyone has been telling me, I've tried half strength nutes, I've tried distancing the light a whole shitload (36"+), different nutes, etc and nothing seemed to work.... I am using those damned N-G-W tubes too man..... Fuck these bastards! Let's get this class action going. They can't be selling hydroponic hose that releases toxins into the water, that shit is ridiculous!

i think i ran into this last fall when i set up the hydro at my newest location. i ended up taking them out of hydro, set them in dirt and they all survived..... HHB

OMG! Are you talkin bout this dammm shitbag blue-ass fukkin crap in this picture>?!?!?!?!? Notice any telltale clues in the backround?

I got a 100 foot roll of this in january and have gotten 2 ounces total since then running 1000 watts in a 4x4 RDWC. What the hell other brand are we suppose to get then?

Ack...just checked my tubing cuz the name stamp on the tubing rang a bell. Sure nuff...
I had offgassing probs identical to those pics about 2 years ago w/ Hydrohuts. I had a 4x8 and a 3x3 Hydrohut in my room and it put me out of business :(
I'm gonna change out all my tubing tomorrow. Why do I always buy lemon products (sigh)?

just went and got 100' roll of hydrofarm black 1/2", that should be safe. My buddy that set me up in january has 10 years under his belt and he is using mostly the black hydrofarm but he got a roll of blue shit the same time I got mine, he said in the area where he has it in his bigger room he has some yellowing leaves also he is ripping it out tonight. 2nite the second the lights come on its rip the blue shit back and store it in the garage

I had identical problems in a new space i setup last january... Tried forever to figure it out looked at all the variables... After 3 harvests that barely yielded 25% of what they could have i gave in and moved the room to another area of the house where I had a veg space that was unaffected.. Thankfully it solved my problem cuz i was bleeding money fast and about to have to take a huge loss.

Ill check and c if the tubing i used is the same as yours... I never changed my tubing when i switched rooms tho... Your leaf problem is identical to what we had goin on... We were convinced it was ethylene for awhile. We never actually figured it out...

It also looked like Snoopytimes pics...
Are u sure it was the tubing? I thought I had it figured out a bunch of times only to have it continue. I'll dig up some pics of our damaged leaves.

Fuck me.
I've been running that same blue 1/2 tube for the last eight months and I've lost every fucking crop.
I've wasted everything I had trying to diagnose what the hell is going on... The only thing I didn't change out was this crap hose.
Fuck me.
No, wait:
Fuck them.
EDIT: I just went back through my last grow. My roots started to discolor the day I added my auto-top off reservoir. And I connected it to the system using this shit hose.
And the same hose is attached to my system right now.
EDIT: Two hours later, it is no longer in circulation. Thanks for the heads up UGU.
I got rid of all of my oldest pics from the first grow with this tube, but they all had the same shitty yellowing. I thought it was N, then I thought it was mag, then I thought it was lockout, then I thought it was root rot/slime. If I just wasted the last eight months on toxic tube...

On the upside: maybe I'm not such a shite gardener after all....
Omfg dude. I've been using this tubing and have lost countless harvests. Some of it was aphids, but I'm almost positive this is why my 3kw room experienced spontaneous death.
Good fuckin' work, bro. You deserve a medal. I'm gonna call my local hydroponics store and demand that they stop stocking this shit.

those pics are exactly what we experienced UGU makes me shudder....
Turns out the tubing in my room is the same stuff...

Yeah man i have the blue, and like I said I had 9 months in a row of bad grows . . well non-grows really. It was crazy, you put a healthy begged out plant in there and after a week the leaves start getting interveinal chlorosis as in calmag deficiency. I tried using 1/2 tap water, adding calmag first, last, topping off with it etc. then the leave die.
My latest theory since I had root problems as well was that root rot lowered my PH to where they couldnt get any phosphorous. But now that I did a wack dose of Physan followed with hydrofungicide my roots are white as a $30,000 set of teeth lol. So yeah the blue stuff officially sucks too.

THANK YOU SO MUCH
I run a RDWC system with NGW hoses, I have ran the system for over a year. I have never once had any signs of this off-gassing happening.
Although...
I setup my friend with a RDWC system with this hose. Every parameter was perfect the whole time, but we could not figure out why his plants looked like shit. It boggled my brain, and I had accepted he had some "nasties" in the system. (IE: not cleaned or maint. well)
He lost two crops in a row, his first two in this sytem. Prior to those grows he had successful harvest in single chamber DWC, and the two new grows he had much more equipment to be successful, it just didn't make sense.
Well today it did, the pictures and information displayed here are exactly what his problem
was. He here now checking it out, lifting his spirits about his defeated grow.
So why is it my 100+ foot of it in my system (the black 1/2") is fine while his 1/2" black hose wasn't.....
I called my local shop and I am attaching this information to an email for them to check out. This hose is literally putting people under from what I have seen, and it can't happen to anyone else.
FUCK NGW there business in the grow industry is OVER!!!!!
Tell all your shops all your friends, make sure they remove this SHIT hose!!! Lets make an example of them!!!!
Ok I went and checked my hose, I am using hydrofarm hose with great success. My friend did infact have NGW feedhose and it did kill his only to crops in RDWC. It looks identical to all the pictures shown here.
edit: This must be stickied before anyone else loses their crop.


Wow... Pretty sure I lost three whole crops, a car, best friend and almost everything else worth of value that I owned because of this issue...
A friend of mine built a DIY ebb n grow-type bucket system for me when I first started out. He had used the same exact system before with great results. For some reason I couldn't, for the life of me figure out why my plants kept instantly dying off (it was my first time ever growing so I had no clue of what was what). I'd blame it on heat, light intensity, root rot, phosphorus def., you name it. When I saw the pics from this thread I couldn't help but notice my plants looked exactly the same. Just so happens that all the tubing used had ngw.com stamped all over it. I think this is far from a coincidence....

Yes Bro your story is almost exactly mine. My pal set me up, same everything (we thought) as him. All year long he hauled in monster buds the size of kid footballs, while I was getting 2 foot skinny dried up sticks with yellow wispy dried out leaves on top. This pal of mine has around 10 years doing it and perfected his system along the way, so he kept asking me "ARE YOU SNEAKING AND PUTTING FOO-FOO SHIT IN THERE!?!?!?!" . . "HOW MANY TIMES A DAY YOU FUCK WITH THEM?!?!?!?"

I blamed it on exactly every same thing you did. (You left out cal-mag def lol.) When it first comes on it looks like magnesium deficiency, the in between veins become light green first. Then it spreads to the whole leaf and the edges start crackling yellow at the tip and progress all the way to the petiole. In fact, the second pic in Phosphorous deficiency here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

had me believing that root rot dropped my PH and they couldnt get any so I was PH UPping the shit out of them.

Well now that it has been a solid 5 days with NO NGW.COM tube in my room, I can safely report that there is NO FURTHER YELLOWING! In that room I have plants toasted that have been in there 6 weeks, they have no leaves and the buds are the size of SERIOUSLY a piece of popcorn each. THen I have one thats been in there 2 weeks that was rocketing up and stretching then started pale greening by the time I changed the hose. THat one isnt getting any worse, its still all 'green' but its frozen - no new growth. Its seriously stuck in a time warp.

Then I got 2 plants that have been in there for around 8 days, so they got around 3-4 days of poisoning. they arent yellowing or fading, but the new growth is pale and it seems like they are at least semi frozen.
Then I got 1 that I put in an hour after the hose got changed. It has fresh new growth, however it is not rocketing because I put it in there from veg pre-maturely as a sacrifice test. Its roots were a little screwy since my veg station had only recently been light proofed. But still, I am 90% confident that my most serious problem has been rectified.
In my opinion, the boss of this site should spam this thread out to EVERY member. I reallllly cant see anyone from this community getting annoyed about getting an email that *MIGHT* save their closet career.

Same Story for my friend, I set him identical to my successful system, and his plants were the worst crops I have ever seen. The two crops he spent 4-6 months loosing set him back, to not growing, no job, lost unemployment, and behind in bills. He was happy to learn of the cause yesturday, and so was I. I felt so bad I couldn't solve his problem. His life would be exactly oppisite right now if it wasn't for that hose. I estimate 20K lost

son-of-a-biii-otch!! I spent 500$ on hose an cut all shit up. Now I got that same problem. And it is the ngw crap. After this run i'm changing it all out. thanks for the heads up, now i can stop bitching.

Fuck

This explains the declining condition of my mothers since I moved them into the hydro veg area. Looks exactly like the pictures. I couldn't figure out why super healthy mothers suddenly went into decline.
Looks like im changing out 200'+ of this shit, in little 10"-12" pieces. I know what I'm doing this whole freaking weekend.
Thanks for the diligence! You may have saved more people than you realize.
Maybe it was a DEA ploy to kill off the industry.... The plot thickens.

I have been frustrated to the point of seriously considering just shutting down for a while due to this until I found this thread. Same story as everyone else, chased all these phantom issues for months and nothing ever helped. Before seeing this thread, I recently switched out my black 1/2" ngw tubing for some of their white. Interestingly enough, there was no ngw markings at all. The two types of tube also smelled noticeibly different with the white being the typical plastic smell while the black was very strong burnt rubberish. I only had the white stuff in there for a few days until I found this, my plants were still yellowing so I'm assuming the white stuff is bad too. At this point I'm ripping every inch of the shit out just to be safe.

Jeez, look familiar? Two years of this shit. Thanks U.G.U Never considered the damn tubing.

Add another system to the count guys, PTB's RDWC fuckin' died....nice.

I witnessed PTB's myself. 1 more week of flushing and the shit was a wrap. He started treating with cal-mag a couple weeks ago. The NGW hose killed off his roots, and as of last night they gave up. 12 buckets with beautiful full lush ladies......
NGW is literally fucking up grow after grow....do not think that it won't happen to you. remove this shit ASAP.
I have seen 3 RDWC grows fall flat on their face now from this hose. It seems in this system, it turns the roots to mush/rot. In 68F pure RO water.....heavily oxygenated, controlled sealed environment. Strain we have both worked for years...
Yea chalk another one up to off gassing... im totally pissed... rooms numbers all spot on 1/4 chiller water temps stay at 68.....
Roots TOTAL MUSH!!!!! got the cal mag deffiecency look about 2 weeks ago... started treating for calmag... plants where totally fine last night and then this morning everything was all droopy dead dieing.. check hose... NWG.com!!!
Called PK over cause hes seen offgassing before with his cousin... says looked exactly the same... do not know whats up but very salty.... what im wondering is how some poeple shit dies instantly and some like mine too months to finally show though i do believe it never let the roots actually take hold... they alwyas looked ruff....

My plants started going to hell about three weeks into veg this time around.

lol just as an off note . . anyone who has suffered through this probably had similar crazy thoughts. But SERIOUSLY, I would look at my depressing shit, then come to ICMAG to try and find an answer. . . I would see threads like "20k Big Dog Roadshow" . . "8k watts MPB" / . . .etc . , , and think to myself "WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING WRONG! How are these guys using 20 lights at 1000 watts each and mine turn yellow with 1 light 4 feet away set on 600!?!?!??! It reallllly made me think I was going nuts

NGW NOT GROW WORTHY

So my buddy that owns a shop in town called NGW today and asked them about returning his inventory of tube. And what they were planning on doing about it. Their response was they had the tube tested by an expert and found it was not toxic enough to kill plants. So they will continue selling the tube. He told them that he can personly atest for at least 30 rooms that he also saw with his own eyes. The guy really had nothing to say at that point. Even said fuck those guys they going to loose in court. Bring it on assholes.

OH MY FRIKEN GOD

This is what has wiped out two farmers/caregivers that I know of
we,they had no clue, but were using the NGW blue tubing

these basturds are nothing less than eco-terrorists, and should be delt with as such

We need some industrial sabotage here, just where is there damn mfg. plant located?

Daddy

road trip to seattle anyone?

Sorry to hear you got hit the the Tube plague. Get it out asap if you are still in veg full recovery after 30 days in most cases, can cause banana's though. If you are in flower it will still be better with out the tube then with. But expect at least 50% yield reduction. Up to 75% pretty miserable

Seattle is just a piece up Interstate 5, but I have a lot of friends in the Seattle Tacoma area.in fact I was with about 10 of them last weekend down in Nevada. Wait till I send them this.
Do you think its really made there or a china import? no matter the warehouse is as good a place as any to start poken around
mark my words NGW is going to know they have mad customers

Daddy

Its made in China that is just their headquarters

Here are the tissue samples we did I don't know how many of you have actually seem tissue samples from cannabis plants. Kind of rare I would guess

Just a heads up.

NGW has began distributing new tube with no packaging and no writing on the tube what so ever. I have not had a chance to have it tested yet, I just received a new roll yesterday. But be on the look out. I would only use general hydro or hydro farm since those are both marked and has been proved safe.

U.G.U.

I just found your ICMAG article tonightâ?¦.Iâ??ll have to finish it tomorrow. (P 13 of 26)

I do have some NGW blue hose in a rather static part of the systemâ?¦.just a littleâ?¦..and the grow is doing well. That said, I am having to adjust Ph to up.

I ran across a reference by snoopytime of having to Ph up his grow.
Did you find lower than expected Ph when your grow was failing?

Iâ??ll finish my reading tomorrow and might even post over there.

Iâ??ll replace the NGW with the GH blue ASAP.

Thank you for the vigilant detective work,
HMR