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I know the law changed this summer, but I've heard different things regarding a grace period. Can a caregiver still sell to a patient that they are not a caregiver for? Can a caregiver still sell to a dispensary?
Sorry if this issue has been beaten to death.
Patient to patient is legal, any caregiver can sell to any patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
Caregivers can't sell to MMC's.
Basically, for-profit caregiving went away, forcing growers to grow for 5 patients max. Some people read this that a caregiver can only grow 36 plants. That's not many if you are trying to make money. Some caregivers are getting around this by looking for 5 patients with increased plant recommendations, but that hasn't been tested in court.
If you are buying, don't buy more than 2 ounces at a time and you'll be fine. If you are selling, sell to legal, paperwork carrying patients and don't sell more than 2 ounces at a time.
If you are growing, don't grow more than 36 plants, and you should be fine.
I'm sure people with more time can post links to legislation etc. That's how I understand things, but I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will share.
This is NOT true don't listen to this guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Edit:
HB1284 says this...
(2) IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO BUY, SELL, TRANSFER, GIVE
AWAY, OR ACQUIRE MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXCEPT AS ALLOWED PURSUANT
TO THIS ARTICLE.
So it is NOT legal for patients to sell to patients and caregivers can only sell to their 5 patients.
I asked this same question and they said patient to patient IE selling extra meds is now illegal. They cant make taxes off the sales so they made them illegal. 1284 is all about the state making money off the sales that used to be legal. Making it illegal now forces people to go to MMC's which pay the taxes and fills the states coffers.
I guess 1284 is subject to interpretation. I'm happy to admit if I am wrong on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver
I won't ever buy medicine from someone I don't know, or someone who can't show me their redcard. I won't ever buy more than 2 ounces at a time.
In my opinion, patient to patient sales are legal, for me. I'm not trying to make a profit or sell to patients on craigslist.
Without looking into it, what was just quoted doesn't explicity state that patient to patient sales are illegal. I think sprngscrgvr is saying that because patient to patient sales aren't specificially and explicitly discussed in 1284/109, that we can safely assume that p2p is now illegal? I don't want to put words in that posters mouth, but I disagree.
Does the legislation ever say, 'patient to patient is illegal' or are we left to interpret ourselves?
edit: If a fellow patient is ever out of medicine, I would never tell them I won't share or provide them with the meds they need, just because I can't find some exact random text in a new bill/law.
Thanks for the info. Even though it's not really what I wanted to hear. So I guess someone that had some plants growing over the last few months basically has no choice but to smoke it all himself then.
I guess I'll get started...
I'm not familiar with the 'job' of caregiving, but can't you use your resources within your patients? Can you front extra meds to your patients and have them pay you when they consume? Do you have any other contacts with caregivers in the area?Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
Also, I haven't heard any concrete evidence that cops are busting patients selling to each other on craigslist. I have heard anecdotal evidence of delivery guys getting robbed or other scams.
If you need some help with this i will be willing to help you get rid of all the extras by :rastasmoke: it with you. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
I just think it's pretty straigght forward. I also swear there was something in 1284 that said a caregiver can only sell to their 5 patients but I cant seem to find it.. Maybe they removed it? That would be sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
I agree patient to patient, caregiver to any patient sales should be legal but you're giving the guy bad info if you ask me. Note it says "transfer, give away or acquire" so dont think you're safe because you're not making a profit.Quote:
(2) IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO BUY, SELL, TRANSFER, GIVE
AWAY, OR ACQUIRE MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXCEPT AS ALLOWED PURSUANT
TO THIS ARTICLE.
No it doesnt say "patient to patient is illegal" it says "IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO BUY, SELL, TRANSFER, GIVE AWAY, OR ACQUIRE MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXCEPT AS ALLOWED PURSUANT TO THIS ARTICLE.
Does it say patient to patient is legal in 1284?
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm sure we both agree that this legislation sucks. You're saying it's illegal because it says, 'it is unlawful...' and describes a process. I take the position that since the legislation doesn't specifically say, 'no p2p', then I'll interpret it as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver
I don't think we need to argue this. I gave my opinion and explained it, you did the same. Let's let people make their own decisions.
If you don't think I'm seeing anything, please tell me. I don't agree that I'm giving misinformation though, that's not what I'm trying to do anyway, but I think that's clear.
Fuck the State. All sales of marijuana are technically illegal. Layering some bullshit tax law on illegal activities and making folks (fools) think they (State) has some HIGHER measure of control over patient/PRIVATE sales than they've had for the last 40 years or so is just too fuckin' funny!
**almost** as funny as the folks who think that just because they paid the same State idiots BIG money for licensing fees they can thumb their noses at Federal drug laws and grow as much weed as they please in warehouses.
It's all illegal. Just sell and grow (in count or close to) and do what you've always done and ignore this shit.
I didn't read anything except the first post so the question might of already been answered.
Private sales have never been legal. Yes it might of seemed to be legal at one time but technically it never was. The Amendment allows a patient to possess but gives no legal protection for anyone caught selling to anyone, registered or not, even if both parties are registered. It was a bit of a gray area when dealing with patient to patient. My buddies & I (all registered) would make a bit of a joke with it all whenever we medicated together. We never passed it directly from one person to another, just set it on the table, denounce ownership and then the next person would claim ownership of said product. Just in case any of the neighbors were eavesdropping on our gathering.
Now 1284 deals with licensed sellers (i.e.-MMC's). They are the only ones who can legally (at least by CO law) sell MMJ (still illegal by Fed law). Caregivers can provide to their patients but even that is a very gray issue and I believe it's was shown in that case involving the caregiver in Brighton that one has to do more than just sell weed (didn't she get jail time & a fine).
I don't charge my patients anything. Their plant count allows me to grow more plants & strains for all of our use. I do have some patients who provide services to me but it is not a direct barter system and I have never asked. They have always just offered. Some of the services they have provided me are: haircuts & manicures/pedicures (for my whole family - girlfriend & daughters love this!), bookkeeping/tax prep, legal advice, discount on real estate fees (when I sold my last place, they were my Realtor and only charged me half of the normal fee, which was given to the buying agent - so in others words my patient didn't make a commission off of me). Some of my patients now know each other and they too help each other out. One of my patients wants total anonymity so no one except me even knows they are a patient (their job is kinda high-profile & requires a security clearance, the only reason I think they trust me is back in the day I too had a high security clearance and know how to keep my mouth shut).
The Golden Rule of MMJ - "Nobody Talks, Everybody Walks."
From the Constitution
(b) "Medical use" means the acquisition, possession, production, use, or transportation of marijuana or paraphernalia related to the administration of such marijuana to address the symptoms or effects of a patient's debilitating medical condition, which may be authorized only after a diagnosis of the patient's debilitating medical condition by a physician or physicians, as provided by this section.
From a patient's perspective its my right and they can't make it illegal for me to buy up to 2 oz of weed or grow upto 6 plants. The new bills are all about controlling and discriminating against a protected class of people by intolerant politicians. The courts will have to sort out HB1284, SB109 and the even greater mess caused by the election(s) to ban dispensaries.
Long live Amendment 20!
That has never been a question. Patients could legally buy from the street dealer down on the corner. If there was a law enforcement stop, the SELLER would get popped, and the patient will walk.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoMtnRunner
They question is, if it's legal for patients to sell. I don't believe that it is, but only about 85% sure. Nobody has run it through the courts to set precedent yet.
i agree i dont think there is any key note addressing this. it will be decided by the first few to get caught (referring to patiet to patient). and of course 9 news will gobble that up like meth ho on her knees.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoMtnRunner
meded to mededicate so you can mededitate
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Are you trying to get people arrested? You repeatedly give out incorrect info to people that could get them charged with a felony. Stop. Direct them to 1284 on Warren Edsons website and let them figure it out themselves if you are really trying to help. :wtf:
Isn't that one person's opinion on this controversial subject?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
What's wrong with discussing various people's interpretations on this topic?
Surely you aren't arguing that you know specifically how anything is currently or in the future, right? Why should someone believe you instead of anyone else?
Take that post and analyze it if you disagree. You only seem to be talking shit, that's all. What's so wrong about that post?
if you meet up with a fed none of this topic will matter at all. only somewhat legal, dont forget
I've come to believe opinions on this topic are useless.
If you were to get caught, anything could happen.
I've heard some do temp caregiver papers and some say patient to patient is fine.
working with friends small scale? whatever
putting ads on craigslist or showing up at centers trying to sell product? scary!
I thought the initial post was pretty dead on in terms of what is legal/isn't. Anyone can always call our shop Mon-Fri and I'll give them my interpretation of how 1284 works. I think we've got it down for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuyCO
(2) IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO BUY, SELL, TRANSFER, GIVEQuote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuyCO
AWAY, OR ACQUIRE MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXCEPT AS ALLOWED PURSUANT
TO THIS ARTICLE.
Here it is again. This is plain English. There is nothing to interpret. This is a sentence with one meaning. It sucks but it is fact and law. Im sure LEO gets the same meaning out of this sentence as the rest of us. Maybe this doesnt apply to you and your buddy who you are curiously defending. I guess you guys have diplomatic immunity or something. Not trying to insult or start arguments but if you are going to dish out answers to people regarding subjects that have serious consequences you should at least actually know what you are talking about or not say anything at all. If you didnt know electrical you wouldnt try to tell someone how to wire up a 240 volt circuit while the panel is live would you? Of couse not because you would most likely get the person blown out of their shoes.
When it comes to the Law there is always something to interpret, Plain and simple. Stating your opinion is one thing, but to give out legal advice without a Law Degree should not be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
You are correct, it is very specific, very cut and dry. But there are other things that come into play here, mainly ARTICLE XVIII Section 14 of The Colorado Constitution, which in part says:
'(d) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, no person, including a patient or primary care-giver, shall be entitled to the protection of this section for his or her acquisition, possession, manufacture, production, use, sale, distribution, dispensing, or transportation of marijuana for any use other than medical use.'
This is a lot more vague than 1284 but it is saying you are not protected from acquisition, possession, manufacture, production, use, sale, distribution, dispensing, or transportation of marijuana for anything OTHER than medical marijuana. So in essence it is saying YOU ARE protected all those things if it IS for medical use. So selling for medical use is protected by the state constitution.
Then there's this:
(b) Effective June 1, 2001, it shall be an exception from the state's criminal laws for any patient or primary care-giver in lawful possession of a registry identification card to engage or assist in the medical use of marijuana, except as otherwise provided in subsections (5) and (8) of this section.
Now, this is saying assisting in the medical use of medical marijuana shall be exempt from the states criminal laws. I would argue selling to a patient is assisting in the medical use of marijuana, yet 1284 attempts to override both this and the above paragraph of the constitution.
As we all know, constitutional amendments are the law of the land and cannot be taken away from through legislation, but the problem here is the constitution is a lot more vague than 1284 and therefore open for quite a bit more interpretation. Again, as we all know, if something is vague judges will a lot of times conclude their own interpretations based on ideology, but I do believe once it got to the state supreme court (or before) parts of 1284 will be ruled unconstitutional. I guess it will take someone getting charged, convicted, and filing appeals before it gets that far. Personally I dont feel like being that guinea pig.
There sure are a lot of patients being caught selling privately, huh. ;)
Just look at the newspaper for their names for proof :D
Be scared. They are watching. :thumbsup:
Apparently I'm not the only one who disagrees with you on this one. No worries, but I don't really think it's fair to say I was 'giving out legal advice'. Just like you say, I'm no expert, and neither are you. As others have said, every situation is unique so who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
It's unfair to say you aren't being insulting, because your post is exactly that.
Now, Zedleppelin has done a better job than I could of why I feel this way, why don't you read his post and tell us why you are right and everyone else is wrong.
ok ok ok, we get it. it's an area that some think is grey while others are sure its black & white. just like before Amd 20 & 1284 - you have to decide how far you want to push things for yourself. Obviously if you decide to push - make sure you set some lawyer money aside.
Personally - if you don't know or trust the person you want to sell too - I wouldn't do it.
yeah, and dont pissem off either, you dont want your kicked in at 2amQuote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan
im meded biatch
I went through all of these "what if" scenarios back in June when I was trying to figure out how to keep supplying my patients. I didnt want to have to remove anyone because I was over 5 patients. I met with 2 attorneys to go over different ways to continue operating. We thought of nonprofits, multiple caregivers operating out of a single grow, patient to patient sales, husband and wife caregiver team, etc... The only way both attorneys (well known) advised is to register with the DOR by July 1st so I did. In July I got cold feet about doing the 22 page background check with the DOR and I had the same brainstorming session with the attorney again.
A bill can not trump the constitution or an ammendment to the constitution. It can however, persuade Judges and DAs interpretation of the ammendment.
If you are a patient growing, you can only grow enough for your own consumption. When you try to sell it calling it "extra meds" is when you cross the line in to unprotected territory.
Good job taking the discussion straight to the point ZED
It seems pretty hypocrytical for you to call out cologrower like you did, when it's pretty obvious that you aren't any more 'right' than that poster. It's pretty obvious to me that this is only a discussion, so your hate towards people seems totally misplaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
Obviously, now that you post additional info you might have more credibility with people who view these forums, but who cares?
Why haven't you said these same paranoia-type posts against the cali guy who has been posting about supreme court rulings and his posts with regards to plant counts.
That said, thanks for contributing to those of us (new)growers who are looking to remain compliant while having quality grows/genetics/etc. These types of discussions, while everyone might not get along, still contribute to everyone raising awareness and contributing to people making smart decisions.
No hate. Nothing but love here bro :hippy:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGuyCO
Sorry 420. I thought you were basing the remarks " patient to patient sells are legal" and "any caregiver can sell to any patient" on 1284. I didnt realize you were thinking of A20.
This is a touchy subject that is going to have to be played out in a courtroom unfortunately. Peace to all.
Bags have always been sold in Colorado. How many people do you know who have been busted for such (private) sales? Not many. I sure don't know anyone and I know a bunch of folks who have been doing this for 20 years or more...LONG before the wannabeees and attorneys took this State over last Summer.
So yeah...it's illegal to sell bags to other folks...JUST AS IT ALWAYS WAS.
Will you get caught? I dunno. HAVE you got caught yet? Obviously not.
folks are still advertising/selling openly on craigslist to other patients so i think most folks behind the scenes are WAYYY down on the list when it comes to these sales and tracking/prosecuting such sales. Just like the pre-legal days...you simply have to be an idiot to be caught selling bags.
carry on!
My apologies as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
This entire site is a 'touchy subject'. With respect, the mods/rulemakers here have to have the same policies in place for both 'legal' and 'non-legal' states, so they have to enforce rules that may seem 'lame' to those of us who are in legal states.
Psycho4bud is the only moderator that I've seen who is active in the colorado forum. Much respect to him/her, they've got a ton of work to do keeping the trolls away and otherwise keeping the peace and taking out the trash. That person is doing a great job.
With that said, this is easily the weirdest forum I've ever seen with regards to rules and enforcement. However, it's important to note that there are potentially liability issues and a ton of other problems associated with this green industry/this site, so it's completely understandable that there are going to be bumps moving forward. I just hope everyone can find some sort of middle ground. The hate from those who remain underground or non-compliant is astounding to me.
That's why I questioned you earlier, but obviously it was a slight misunderstanding. It's nice when grown-ups can have a civil discussion, even if we don't agree. Much respect.
I'll be trolling for harvest/cure info today, I'm taking down my first harvest of one plant tomorrow. It's an awesome plant for my first time, but I'm not bragging. I'm still nervous like a school-girl though because I've never done this before. Seems that the biggest difference between homegrown and MMC stuff is genetics, nutrients, and curing. I've got the first two, but I have definite concerns on curing since it seems so easy to fuck it up. I'm excited to smoke a bowl from a plant that I grew. I'm sure that sounds stupid to the old schoolers, but they were here once too. It's difficult to find a teacher/mentor in this industry.
there is nothing better than smokin a bud that you raised from a bean. now i know how parents feel when their kid makes the honor roll!!:thumbsup::jointsmile:
I started a thread on curing a few days ago. Copobo responded with a link that was full of great info. Check it out. The low humidity in CO will dry your buds too fast if you just hang them upside down in a room and come back in a week. It will smell like hay. Good luck. Post some pics. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
I'm not going to post pictures here, there is far too many haters. I don't care to defend myself or anything else. I feel like posting pics would be close to bragging, I don't want that. The only thing I'm going to brag about is that I haven't killed my plant yet. I am more proud than I can possibly explain. The kids analogy is really accurate I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenergy
Real life got in the way of harvest, so I'm taking down tomorrow. Another day of flushing won't hurt, and I'm not seeing many ambers, still mostly cloudy.
I'm going to post a question for y'all in that thread since it's more on topic there. I can read threads and shit all I want, but at the end of the day, being a new grower and being able to ask questions is really valuable. But it's totally understandable that experienced growers see the same questions all the time. I just wish there were more avenues more people who are seeking knowledge/mentors.
MMC's don't even have time to let their growers 'consult' on a private basis. You would be astounded at the price I would pay to pick someone's brain who has experience.
I'll help with whatever I can. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Don't get so uptight about drying/curing, its not that difficult, the difficult part is over. I've messed up a lot of things in a grow over the years but drying/curing wasnt one of them. There are really only two ways to screw it up, drying to fast, and storing the buds to long wet (mold). There are many ways to do it but I do all my trimming at harvest, set the buds on a drying rack (a window screen works as well), depending on the density of the buds in 2 - 3 days the outer part of the buds will feel dry. I then put them in jars for half a day to let the moisture from the stem and inside part of the bud to come out to the outer parts, the buds will feel wet again. I then put the buds in a paper sack to get a slower dry, when the outer parts feel dry again then I put them back in jars. After being back in the jars for half a day they will feel slightly moist again, at that point I take the lids off the jars and leave them off for a few hours (until they feel dry, but not bone dry). After that I take the lids off the jars and air them out a couple of times a day. The whole process takes about a week and is smokeable at that point but the longer they are in the jars curing the better the smell and taste will be. Ideally at least a month, although personally I usually cant keep my stuff around long enough for that.
It is actually very straight forward. Caregivers can not profit, period end of story. That means you can cover your expenses, and nothing else.
The effective date is July this year.
It's time to come to Jesus :)
There's a difference between profiting and being compensated. Caregivers can be compensated for their time & labor - that's not profiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeSense
I would count that as an expense, however a Judge may not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiBuddhaMan