Parents find your pot and freak?
Long, but it might be helpful. :)
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2010/08/08/...id-smokes-pot/
When Your Kid Smokes Pot
Sunday, August 8, 2010
By Paul Elam
O.K., so you found some weed in your teen-agers room.
Depending on the kind of parent you are, your reaction to that can range from mild amusement to thermonuclear. But assuming you are not going to smoke the stuff yourself, you are confronted with making some decisions on what to do about it. Perhaps you think it is time to call a counselor, or maybe even the thought of a treatment center for young people with drug problems crosses your mind.
As someone who worked in the chemical dependency treatment field for two decades, and who wrote and directed several treatment programs, let me make a suggestion about that.
Don??t.
Don??t even think about it.
To clarify, let me tell you some things you won??t hear from the staff at treatment programs, or anyone else interested in making a buck off your child??s ??problem.?
First, there??s this funny thing about teenage drug addicts. There aren??t any. Or at least they are so far and few between that I can count the ones I have seen on two fingers. So for your benefit, an understanding of addiction is in order.
We??ll view it in simple, objective terms. Chemical dependency and/or abuse is defined, in that Holy of Holies, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV), in pretty explicit terms, regardless of what drug we are talking about. There are two main criteria.
First, for physical addiction to be established there has to be the presence of physical withdrawal symptoms when the drug use is stopped. My money is on the fact that if you take your kids pot away they won??t even get so much as the sniffles. This probably has something to do with the fact that marijuana isn??t addictive.
The other diagnostic criteria, and the one the treatment centers rely heavily on as their cash cow, is the continued use of a particular drug or drugs despite the onset of severe life damaging consequences. In this we are talking about things like multiple arrests, lost jobs, physical ailments and failed marriages, all related to the use/abuse of drugs. Again, the odds are good that Johnny didn??t lose his paper route or burger flipping position from smoking some weed, or suffer any of these other complications.
And as much as Johnny, or even you, may protest, getting caught by your parents isn??t severe and life damaging- unless there is something really wrong with the parents.
So why then, you might ask, are there treatment programs spread across the entire western world that will gladly take Johnny in and ??treat? him as long as the money or insurance holds out?
Well, money, of course. There??s gold in the ignorance of them thar parents.
And in their fear and desperation- and in their failure to be good parents.
But before we get to that, let me illustrate one of the dirty little secrets of the ??helping? profession, just to make the point.
The money is in the diagnosis.
Up till 1991, there had been something like 6 documented cases of Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) in the entirety of world history. But then a psychiatrist in Houston, a right smart lady with a really keen eye for those pesky extra personalities, diagnosed enough of them in that city to keep a 22 bed unit at a psychiatric hospital full of them for months on end.
At around $1,200 a day per head, for stays that often ranged in the months, MPD was a gold mine. The Doc was getting rich, hospital administration was ecstatic and the insurance companies continued to pay.
Eventually the authorities took notice; Lady Freud was figured to be Lady Fraud and was charged with scamming the insurance companies. That hospital??s administrator lost his job. Later though, the charges were dropped, mainly because the burden was on the prosecution to prove that the patients, whose confidentiality -and thus treatment information- was protected by law, didn??t have MPD.
Case closed, and the lady walks with the money, perhaps to go on and treat teenage drug addicts.
The point here is, though, if one psychiatrist can find hundreds of MPD??s, mostly from the same city, all with insurance to cover the stay, how hard do you think it is to find teenage drug addicts?
That??s right. They are as close as the nearest scared and insured or affluent parent.
And the corruption is just the light side; surface stuff. We are, after all, talking about your child. Who cares if it is expensive, right?
I would tend to agree if locking your child away in a treatment program and calling them an addict would somehow resolve their problems. It would be worth the expense. But the truth is that it is more likely to make things worse.
It reminds me of a joke. Mom and Dad find Johnny??s stash of pot and take him to the treatment center. Dad is concerned, mom is crying and Johnny looks scared out of his mind.
The counselor asks, ??Johnny, do you know why you are here??
??Yes,? Johnny says, voice trembling, ??I was smoking pot.?
Just then another couple walks in with their son, also named Johnny. Dad is angry and reeks of gin, Mom is crying so hard she can hardly open her bottle of Xanax.
The dad says, ??We were just on our way out of town when we had to come here. Can you fix the little bastard? We??ll pick him up when we get back. A month O.K.??
The counselor turns to the other Johnny and asks again, ??Johnny, do you know why you are here??
??F*ck you, bitch,? says the boy.
??Isn??t this great!? says the counselor. ??Johnny, meet Johnny. You can both share the experience of treatment together. Perhaps we??ll make you room mates!?
And yes, that is the punch line.
Adolescent drug abuse programs, more than any others, become dumping grounds for all manner of problems, except real chemical dependency. If you take your kid there because you caught them smoking pot, they will be tossed in with a population of conduct disorders, budding sociopaths, even the occasional emerging psychopath.
Of course they will all have that evil pot use in common, if nothing else.
Treatment programs need customers in order to make money. And as we learned in our MPD program, they are often not too picky about how they get those customers, as long as the money is there.
Johnny and Johnny won??t be the exception.
In fact, in all the years I worked in that field, I never saw anyone turned away who wanted to be admitted (or whose parents wanted it), unless there was no funding. Those that didn??t want to check in were always encouraged to change their minds in the strongest possible terms.
Plenty of the great unwashed were sent packing no matter how bad their circumstances. The standard for the business was, and is, if you??ve got coverage, you??ve got a problem we can help you with.
What do you suppose happens when you mix these types of personalities together and concentrate them behind locked doors with their lives under the control of external authority figures while the rest of their family enjoys freedom?
Johnny One and Johnny Two might not have much in common when they are admitted, but you can bet they will become fast friends during their stay together. It??s what happens when you create a penitentiary environment. And what your relatively innocent kid doesn??t know about drugs, sex and a host of other things before treatment, he will quickly learn during the process.
All this and there is not one bit of reputable evidence to suggest that treatment will stop him from doing drugs in the future.
So what, then, is a concerned parent to do?
I am afraid the answer to that one is almost as unpalatable as treatment itself.
There is one other bit of information that you won??t hear from professionals who are financially invested in keeping the cash flow coming. 99 out of 100 screwed up kids come from screwed up homes- screwed up parents. In fact, if you get someone who works in a treatment setting with adolescents to tell you the truth, they will tell you that the greatest frustration with their work is that they spend all this time trying to help kids with their problems, only to send them right back to the same dysfunctional environment -the environment that caused their problems- when treatment is done.
Of all the adolescents I worked with (and quit working with because of this problem) they had more in common with bad parents than with drug use. It was a virtual broken record of the same old same old; parents that were outraged because their kids turned to drugs, but couldn??t tell you the name of any of their teachers at school. Often there was violence and abuse in the home that the parents wanted to call ??discipline,? or active real addiction by one or both parents. They often had Dads that didn??t know they were alive unless they were in trouble, and Moms that had turned them into little emotional spouses because they had run off the fathers affections long ago.
But that joint in the bottom drawer? Something had to be done!
And these parents, afflicted by those or a myriad of other problems, all had something in common as well. Their kid was the problem. Their kid was the only problem. And you could see it in the vacant, glazed over look in their eyes any time you tried to talk about anything else.
But what else can a treatment provider do? You push the truth too hard and the parents (read money) goes bye-bye.
And so the dance of lies picks up tempo; and the music drowns out every relevant reality that might actually help these struggling people. The kid, in many cases, is often the most sane person in the home. More than likely, they are acting out and calling attention to the problems that Mom and Dad are pretending didn??t exist; screaming at them for help in the only way they know how. And their reward for this service is to be locked up and stigmatized in order to get at their parents money.
Or, heaven forbid, some of them are just a normal kids experimenting with some pot. It happens you know, and more than a few of them go on to become happy, well adjusted adults who happen to like marijuana.
But for the ones that are real problems; the really troubled kids, parents can likely find the best solution in the mirror. Your child didn??t get to where they are in a vacuum. And your money or insurance cannot help them near as much as your love, ongoing involvement in their lives, and willingness to clean up your own act.
There is clearly some cases where some short term counseling might help with that. When kids are in trouble, good parents can often figure it our by figuring out what is wrong with themselves.
But do yourself and your child a favor, go there without them first. Or better yet, just take a good long look at yourselves before you talk to anyone else.
It??s amazing what that can do.
Paul Elam is the Editor-in-Chief of Men??s News Daily and the publisher of A Voice for Men.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Epic and wonderfully written.
One thing that can be said for parents freaking out when they find pot is that you are getting it from a drug dealer. That is a legitimate concern. Cannabis is not a gateway drug - but the drug dealer is the gateway to other drugs, because 9 times out of 10 he isn't just selling dime bags. I'm speaking from experience. Psychedelic experience :D
Parents find your pot and freak?
Great post and great article. :thumbsup:
I found out my son was smoking pot when he forgot to take his stash out of his pants before throwing them in the laundry. First of all, I gave him his stash back (dry and unwashed). Then I explained that pot was not harmful, but that it was illegal. I stressed being very careful if he was going to use pot. I also warned him how his dealer may in fact be a pusher and try to entice him to try other drugs that are harmful. Once I explained how they make much bigger money from addictive drugs (sort of enforced repeat customers), he understood perfectly. It was a very cool situation and as a result, he never got busted and is now leading a very normal life. Plus we became even closer than before rather than pushing him away with a freak out overreaction.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Very eye opening. I went through that as a child. It got me off the drugs. Cost tons of money and all to only relize I had a fucked up childhood. My parents were fucked up and thats what pushed me to the streets were I found home with drugs. I belive this article to be 100% true.
Very good read and thatnks for reminding me.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBlazer
Great post and great article. :thumbsup:
I found out my son was smoking pot when he forgot to take his stash out of his pants before throwing them in the laundry. First of all, I gave him his stash back (dry and unwashed). Then I explained that pot was not harmful, but that it was illegal. I stressed being very careful if he was going to use pot. I also warned him how his dealer may in fact be a pusher and try to entice him to try other drugs that are harmful.
Not harmful? Don??t get me wrong, I hate the anti-weed attitude in this country as much as anyone, but not being honest about the negative effects won??t help. For starters, and I know it??s not as bad as cigarettes, but many daily smokers develop chronic bronchitis. I certainly did back when I was a true head (and I never smoked cigs), along with most if not all the other daily smokers I knew, and my younger brother who now smokes daily has it too. We just thought of it as weed cough, but it??s bronchitis, plain and simple. If smoking pot wasn??t harmful to the respiratory system, vaporizers wouldn??t be so highly touted.
But the real effect is on the brain. You don??t call slowing down cognitive function harmful? How about dulling emotional responsiveness? Especially when we??re talking about kids. The brain doesn??t stop developing until a person??s early twenties, and of course a powerful psychoactive chemical like THC stunts development. I am so glad I didn??t try it till I was almost 18 and didn??t become a regular till 19, and I wish I??d have waited even later.
I??m not too worried about memory loss b/c, whatever, I remember the important stuff, but that effect is undeniable in anyone smoking even semi-regularly. Also, don??t forget the increased levels of paranoia and anxiety in some people (I said some).
And now I??m finding out first hand what it does to the body??s production of white blood cells. It??s not noticeable in the short run with young otherwise healthy people, but I guess we??ll see what happens after years and years of smoking.
I??ll never meet you or your kid, so I don??t really care how you raise him, but if y??all were friends/family of mine, I??d be pretty disturbed about the kid now being entirely misinformed. I don??t advocate flipping out or anything close to that, but how about educating them with the truth?
I guess this all makes me sound anti-weed myself, but not at all. I believe it??s our right to consume it in spite of all this. For me it??s a wonderful painkiller, greatly aids the creative process, and shit, it just feels so fucking good. But I still think we have to be honest about the negative effects, especially concerning kids whose brains haven??t finished drying out yet. For one thing, someone sees a statement like ??not harmful? that is so obviously not true and they just shake their heads thinking marijuana advocates don??t know what they??re talking about.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowoutComb
I??ll never meet you or your kid, so I don??t really care how you raise him, but if y??all were friends/family of mine, I??d be pretty disturbed about the kid now being entirely misinformed. I don??t advocate flipping out or anything close to that, but how about educating them with the truth?
I'm not going to be drawn into a debate over the harmfulness of cannabis. I'll just say the "truth" is subjective. I went into plenty of detail about the harmful effects of the "other" drugs so that when his experience with cannabis was so different than what the establishment told him to expect, he didn't assume all the drugs out there are just as misrepresented.
I began smoking cannabis when I was twelve. By the time I was fourteen, I was a heavy user. Though I had a break of over 20 years for my military career, I'm 52 now, still smoke cannabis, and have had a full and enriching life so far. My cognitive functions and emotional responses were and are fine thank you and I also do not have cancer, or any of the other bugaboo diseases supposedly caused by smoking. My son and I were both on the honor roll at school and graduated near the top of our classes.
The only really harmful thing about cannabis is that it continues to be illegal. I appreciate your concern, but think you may be a victim of anti-cannabis propaganda.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBlazer
The only really harmful thing about cannabis is that it continues to be illegal. I appreciate your concern, but think you may be a victim of anti-cannabis propaganda.
Not at all. I know plenty such people and I??m definitely not one of them. What I am is self-aware. Everything I mentioned is from personal experience, and I??ve never met a smoker, until now, who denies any of it. The propaganda I heard growing up was that one joint is as bad for your lungs as a pack of cigarettes (which was clearly not a part of my post--didn??t mention anything about cancer b/c I know it??s BS; not sure what other disease you??re talking about), and of course the memory thing and that pot slows you down in general.
Like you, I was a great student as a smoker, and my cognitive function and emotional responses are ??fine?? as well, but I would be in serious denial if I didn??t admit they would be better/sharper/faster without the pot. I??ve gone extended periods without it and that??s just the way it is. Yes, people, especially smart people, have enough in reserve to function as a smoker (otherwise I wouldn??t smoke it), but functioning at an acceptable level doesn??t mean the level wouldn??t be higher without it. Oh, and caffeine helps counteract; I don??t think I??d even be at acceptable without the tea I chug all day. And of course some fields, like the arts, are actually better b/c of pot, like I said.
The other thing I forgot to mention, it lowers overall motivation/drive. This isn??t just me. Yet another thing every single smoker I??ve talked to about admits. It takes a whole of extra effort to get shit done when I??m smoking on a regular basis, and I??m talking about free time obviously. If I??m stoned it??s real easy to let hours slip by just listening to music, and if I??m not stoned, chances are I??m thinking about/wishing I was stoned. Everything??s more fun on weed, and it gets to the point it??s hard to fully enjoy stuff without it. That??s part of the emotional response thing.
Btw, the 20 years you went without it is a very important detail b/c the brain is capable of recovering and playing catch-up.
Parents find your pot and freak?
And I know it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the real drugs, but that doesn't mean there are no drawbacks at all.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowoutComb
And I know it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the real drugs, but that doesn't mean there are no drawbacks at all.
Aloha nui, Blowoutcomb
I somewhat agree, with everything you said.
Been smokin for >40 years.
And from insight, n outsite, you are factually, correct.
Still, it's a balance.
People will self-medicate.
And, at least in my case, the benefits far outweighs the detriments.
I can honestly say, that I bless the day that MJ came my way.
But I also agree with BB.
While it's not quite side-effect free.
The crap they sell ya at Long's
Was just about killin' me.:D
(true story):)
Seriously, on several levels, you are both correct.:cool:
Beeg Mahalo to Granny Stormcrow for the original post.:thumbsup:
Might limit da "panic damage" a bit.
Well, one can hope.
Aloha Y'all
Weezard
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowoutComb
Not at all. I know plenty such people and I??m definitely not one of them. What I am is self-aware. Everything I mentioned is from personal experience, and I??ve never met a smoker, until now, who denies any of it. The propaganda I heard growing up was that one joint is as bad for your lungs as a pack of cigarettes (which was clearly not a part of my post--didn??t mention anything about cancer b/c I know it??s BS; not sure what other disease you??re talking about), and of course the memory thing and that pot slows you down in general.
Like you, I was a great student as a smoker, and my cognitive function and emotional responses are ??fine?? as well, but I would be in serious denial if I didn??t admit they would be better/sharper/faster without the pot. I??ve gone extended periods without it and that??s just the way it is. Yes, people, especially smart people, have enough in reserve to function as a smoker (otherwise I wouldn??t smoke it), but functioning at an acceptable level doesn??t mean the level wouldn??t be higher without it. Oh, and caffeine helps counteract; I don??t think I??d even be at acceptable without the tea I chug all day. And of course some fields, like the arts, are actually better b/c of pot, like I said.
The other thing I forgot to mention, it lowers overall motivation/drive. This isn??t just me. Yet another thing every single smoker I??ve talked to about admits. It takes a whole of extra effort to get shit done when I??m smoking on a regular basis, and I??m talking about free time obviously. If I??m stoned it??s real easy to let hours slip by just listening to music, and if I??m not stoned, chances are I??m thinking about/wishing I was stoned. Everything??s more fun on weed, and it gets to the point it??s hard to fully enjoy stuff without it. That??s part of the emotional response thing.
Btw, the 20 years you went without it is a very important detail b/c the brain is capable of recovering and playing catch-up.
A couple of things. Peanut butter is harmless . . . unless you're allergic to peanuts. For you and your friends to all have bronchitis from smoking pot, you have to be smoking massive quantities. I also am a 3 pack a day cigarette smoker for over 30 years and have never had bronchitis. Perhaps the cause is something else that you and your friends are all exposed to locally. Just throwing that out there.
Secondly, while I don't consider cannabis dangerous (especially when compared to the really nasty drugs like meth and alcohol), I always preach moderation in the use of cannabis and stressed that to my son as well. He was much more receptive to anything I had to say about it, because he didn't shut down on me due to an overanxious reaction.
When I quit for 20 years, the only significant difference that I could tell was I felt a little more physically balanced. That's it.
There haven't been any credible scientific studies done on the long term effects of THC on adolescents that I'm aware of. Therefore, your "truth" is subjective as I stated previously. There is one half-assed study I read about that makes use of statistics gleaned from the same "recovery" machine the OP is talking about. Of course those statistics do not account for any other drugs being used at the same time as well as other mitigating factors.
The lack of ambition angle is one we've all felt. However, please tell me what is so wrong with "letting hours slip by just listening to music." In today's "Type A" society that is considered wasting time. I consider it time well spent myself (with or without cannabis).
The bottom line is that I never lied to my son. My reaction allowed a free flowing dialog between us and I was able to help him avoid other drugs that are seriously harmful. As a result, he never got involved with those drugs and moderated his use of cannabis.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezard
I can honestly say, that I bless the day that MJ came my way.
Amen! :thumbsup:
Weez, once again you are the voice of reason. :D
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBlazer
Amen! :thumbsup:
Weez, once again you are the voice of reason. :D
Mahalo!
"The bottom line is that I never lied to my son. My reaction allowed a free flowing dialog between us and I was able to help him avoid other drugs that are seriously harmful. As a result, he never got involved with those drugs and moderated his use of cannabis. "
Right back atcha, BB
You are a good father.
Short ramble follows...
In '68, I helped found the Free Clinic in Cleveland Ohio.
One of our functions was education.
We would book assemblies at high schools and give drug education presentations.
Nope, not da gummint kine! :cool:
We just told the honest real science truth, to the best of our knowledge at the time.
Guess how that went over.:D
At one school, they shut down the assembly and marched us to the pricipal's office after I gave an honest answer to a kid's question about Marijuana.
On the way to the office one of the kids asked if we were "in trouble".
I said no, son, and they aren't either.
But we need to educate them before we can continue.
(I've always been proud of that answer.):cool:
When Pricipal and his posse tried playing authorities vs naughty persons, I stood up!
"Listen people! " Said I, (in my most intimidating voice.):)
"We did not advocate, or even condone the use of cannabis.
We gave factual information to these students, an honest answer to the question he asked.
Don't you think it's time that you did the same?
I respecfully suggest that it is you that are in need of drug education."
(Yeah, I know, just not eloquent when I'm pissed. I was only 24 at the time.)
That, caught them off guard and we were able to give them a crash course, with a shitload of cited references for later.
To their credit, we were allowed to continue, the presentation, after "clearing up a point";), and because of the pause, it's one assembly that those kids will never forget.
Great thing 'bout bein' old fart.
Ya got plenty great memories to carry ya through the odd "rough patch".
Alo - to give.
Ha - the breath of life.
Weezard
Parents find your pot and freak?
It's kind of sad that the same battle is still going on in schools over 40 years later. :wtf:
Thanks for the kind words Weez. As I've said before, one thing old farts have in abundance is stories. :thumbsup:
Parents find your pot and freak?
That was the sanest thing I've read in quite some time. As to slowing down the brain, I am passionately convinced from my own (admittedly young) experience of the fallacy of that. It really doesn't make a bit of difference. If you're stupid and you smoke, you'll just find a new and funner way of being stupid. If you have it going on upstairs, it's going to stay that way. I've been smoking HEAVILY since I was 15, and I'm in the middle of writing a novel, having read all of Shakespeare, Paradise Lost, War and Peace, etc. There's no bearing.
Parents find your pot and freak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowoutComb
If smoking pot wasn??t harmful to the respiratory system, vaporizers wouldn??t be so highly touted.
Dude, if you noticed, Blue pointed out that cannabis itself is not harmful. Then you come in swinging for the fences with smoking. Obviously smoking anything is harmful man.. but cannabis itself is not. Compare to a real drug.. let's say.. meth. Put that shit in your body any which way you want and it'll fuck you proper. Now that is harmful drug..
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlowoutComb
But the real effect is on the brain. You don??t call slowing down cognitive function harmful? How about dulling emotional responsiveness? Especially when we??re talking about kids. The brain doesn??t stop developing until a person??s early twenties, and of course a powerful psychoactive chemical like THC stunts development. I am so glad I didn??t try it till I was almost 18 and didn??t become a regular till 19, and I wish I??d have waited even later.
I??m not too worried about memory loss b/c, whatever, I remember the important stuff, but that effect is undeniable in anyone smoking even semi-regularly. Also, don??t forget the increased levels of paranoia and anxiety in some people (I said some).
Consider the following..
A powerful synthetic version of a cannabinoid called HU-210, which is similar to a group of chemicals found in marijuana, stimulates brain cell growth and may point toward new treatments for anxiety and depression, according to a study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation.
Xia Zhang, an associate professor in the University of Saskatchewan neuropsychiatry research unit, led the team that tested the effects of HU-210. The synthetic version is about 100 times as powerful as THC, the compound responsible for the high experienced by recreational users."This is a very potent cannabinoid oil," Zhang says. "It's not something that would be available on the street."
Rats treated with HU-210 a regular basis showed neurogenesis -- the growth of new brain cells -- in the hippocampus, the researchers found. This region of the brain is associated with learning and memory, as well as anxiety and depression.
The effect is the opposite of alcohol, nicotine, heroin and cocaine.
"Most 'drugs of abuse' suppress neurogenesis," Zhang says. "Only marijuana promotes neurogenesis." Depression may be sparked when too few new brain cells are grown in the hippocampus, scientists believe. It is unclear whether anxiety is part of this process but, if true, HU-210 could offer a treatment for both mood disorders by stimulating the growth of new brain cells.
See? It's all in your head bro.. :jointsmile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannabis=freedom
That was the sanest thing I've read in quite some time. As to slowing down the brain, I am passionately convinced from my own (admittedly young) experience of the fallacy of that. It really doesn't make a bit of difference. If you're stupid and you smoke, you'll just find a new and funner way of being stupid. If you have it going on upstairs, it's going to stay that way. I've been smoking HEAVILY since I was 15, and I'm in the middle of writing a novel, having read all of Shakespeare, Paradise Lost, War and Peace, etc. There's no bearing.
Bro, that is exactly my viewpoint. I've always maintained that cannabis does not make you something you aren't; it simply amplifies the character traits you already possess. So if you like to veg out on the couch once a week with a bag of chips.. start hitting the bong.. and that turns into every night.
Me.. I like to blaze on the way up the chairlift, then slide down snow and fly through the air. Or go on any adventure available.. I like to experience new things when I'm high. That's life to me.
