Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
So Israel lied and cheated in an effort to destroy the US backed peace process. Anyone who witnessed it on the ground knew that to be the case anyway. Can one of the Israel appeasers that frequent this site please explain how this is in keeping with US national interests?
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There is one video Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, must be praying never gets posted on YouTube with English subtitles. To date, the 10-minute segment has been broadcast only in Hebrew on Israel??s Channel 10.
Its contents, however, threaten to gravely embarrass not only Netanyahu but also the US administration of Barack Obama.
The film was shot, apparently without Netanyahu??s knowledge, nine years ago, when the government of Ariel Sharon had started reinvading the main cities of the West Bank to crush Palestinian resistance in the early stages of the second intifada.
At the time Netanyahu had taken a short break from politics but was soon to join Sharon??s government as finance minister.
On a visit to a home in the settlement of Ofra in the West Bank to pay condolences to the family of a man killed in a Palestinian shooting attack, he makes a series of unguarded admissions about his first period as prime minister, from 1996 to 1999.
Seated on a sofa in the house, he tells the family that he deceived the US president of the time, Bill Clinton, into believing he was helping implement the Oslo accords, the US-sponsored peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, by making minor withdrawals from the West Bank while actually entrenching the occupation. He boasts that he thereby destroyed the Oslo process.
He dismisses the US as ??easily moved to the right direction? and calls high levels of popular American support for Israel ??absurd?.
He also suggests that, far from being defensive, Israel??s harsh military repression of the Palestinian uprising was designed chiefly to crush the Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat so that it could be made more pliable for Israeli diktats.
All of these claims have obvious parallels with the current situation, when Netanyahu is again Israel??s prime minister facing off with a White House trying to draw him into a peace process that runs counter to his political agenda.
As before, he has ostensibly made public concessions to the US administration -- chiefly by agreeing in principle to the creation of a Palestinian state, consenting to indirect talks with the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah, and implementing a temporary freeze on settlement building. But he has also enlisted the powerful pro-Israel lobby to exert pressure on the White House, which appears to have relented on its most important stipulations.
The contemptuous view of Washington Netanyahu demonstrates in the film will confirm the suspicions of many observers -- including Palestinian leaders -- that his current professions of good faith should not be taken seriously. Critics have already pointed out that his gestures have been extracted only after heavy arm-twisting from the US administration.
More significantly, he has so far avoided engaging meaningfully in the limited talks the White House is promoting with the Palestinians while the pace of settlement building in the West Bank has been barely affected by the 10-month freeze, due to end in September.
In the meantime, planning officials have repeatedly approved large new housing projects in East Jerusalem and the West Bank that have undercut the negotiations and will make the establishment of a Palestinian state -- viable or otherwise -- far less likely.
Writing in the liberal Haaretz newspaper, the columnist Gideon Levy called the video ??outrageous?. He said it proved that Netanyahu was a ??con artist ? who thinks that Washington is in his pocket and that he can pull the wool over its eyes?. He added that the prime minister had not reformed in the intervening period: ??Such a crooked way of thinking does not change over the years.?
In the film, Netanyahu says Israel must inflict ??blows [on the Palestinians] that are so painful the price will be too heavy to be borne ? A broad attack on the Palestinian Authority, to bring them to the point of being afraid that everything is collapsing?.
When asked if the US will object, he responds: ??America is something that can be easily moved. Moved to the right direction ? They won??t get in our way ? Eighty per cent of the Americans support us. It??s absurd.?
He then recounts how he dealt with President Clinton, whom he refers to as ??extremely pro-Palestinian?. ??I wasn??t afraid to maneuver there. I was not afraid to clash with Clinton.?
His approach to White House demands to withdraw from Palestinian territory under the Oslo accords, he says, drew on his grandfather??s philosophy: ??It would be better to give two per cent than to give 100 per cent.? He therefore signed the 1997 agreement to pull the Israeli army back from much of Hebron, the last Palestinian city under direct occupation, as a way to avoid conceding more territory.
??The trick,? he says, ??is not to be there [in the occupied territories] and be broken; the trick is to be there and pay a minimal price.?
The ??trick? that stopped further withdrawals, Netanyahu adds, was to redefine what parts of the occupied territories counted as a ??specified military site? under the Oslo accords. He wanted the White House to approve in writing the classification of the Jordan Valley, a large area of the West Bank, as such a military site.
??Now, they did not want to give me that letter, so I did not give [them] the Hebron Agreement. I stopped the government meeting, I said: ??I??m not signing.?? Only when the letter came ? did I sign the Hebron Agreement. Why does this matter? Because at that moment I actually stopped the Oslo accords.?
Last week, after meeting Obama in Washington, the Israeli prime minister gave an interview to Fox News in which he appeared to be in no hurry to make concessions: ??Can we have a negotiated peace? Yes. Can it be implemented by 2012? I think it??s going to take longer than that,? he said. There must be at least a very strong suspicion that Netanyahu is as firmly committed today as he was then to destroying any chance of peace with the Palestinians.
Netanyahu admits on video he deceived US to destroy Oslo accord - The National Newspaper
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Here is the video with English subtitles. Illuminating. Some friends... Of course this will not bother Islandboy and the rest of the Israel appeasers in these forums. They will not see this as running contrary to US interests. No, not at all. This is just part of the 'specail relationship' after all, right?
Note that the English subtitles start around the 2:15 mark.
[YOUTUBE]eeT_KLuCdug[/YOUTUBE]
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Israel is our biggest intelligence contractor. Mousad, the one stop shopping WalMart of the intelligence community. :D
Whadda ya need? We got it for ya or we can create it no problem. Ben Netanyahu. :smokin:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Amazing how the appeasers on this site have nothing to say. Typical.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Time to cut Isreal lose. They want to be the big dog in the middle east then let them have at it. Its getting old that us taxpayers have to kepp buying off Isreal so they don't fight. Letem fight and good ridance when they're gone.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
Can one of the Israel appeasers that frequent this site please explain how this is in keeping with US national interests?
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerweed420
Letem fight and good ridance when they're gone.
So what did Israel ever do to any of you? Ya, lets let them fight it out to the end. Israel will drop over 200 nukes across the region but hey, big deal right?
I seriously can't believe the HATE on this site for either Muslims or Israel. Kind of disgusts me......hell, it does disgust me. So what group will be next if ya get your wishes; Hindu's, Christians, Communists, anybody else out there you want to spread some hate on?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FphuBPNYcWo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
Have a good one!:s4:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
I spent four years living and working under the Israeli occupation. I spent a further six years working in other "front line" countries and a further five years supporting a range of public and private sector concerns in the region. I have seen it up close and personal. It has nothing to do with hate. It has everything to do with deep concern for US national interests. Our national security has been subverted to support the expansionist policies of the Israeli government - labor and likud. That does not serve us well. Most Americans are completely ignorant of the facts. If they knew, they would not stand for it.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
So what did Israel ever do to any of you? Ya, lets let them fight it out to the end. Israel will drop over 200 nukes across the region but hey, big deal right?
I seriously can't believe the HATE on this site for either Muslims or Israel. Kind of disgusts me......hell, it does disgust me.
Isn't it interesting how when the validity of the US / Israel relationship is questioned it automatically generates accusations like this. I have never, ever expressed anything that remotely resembles hate speech. Not even close. Please provide an example if you are going to level this kind of accusation.
And of course you failed to provide any insight or commentary on the video in question. I'd love to hear your take on this issue. Otherwise, you are adding nothing to the issue at hand.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
Isn't it interesting how when the validity of the US / Israel relationship is questioned it automatically generates accusations like this. I have never, ever expressed anything that remotely resembles hate speech. Not even close.
Please provide an example if you are going to level this kind of accusation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerweed420
Letem fight and good ridance when they're gone.
Don't put it across like you don't post nothing but anti-Israel in here when Israel is discussed because I along with others can read. Christ, we can tell what's up with just the thread titles.
And of course you failed to provide any insight or commentary on the video in question. I'd love to hear your take on this issue. Otherwise, you are adding nothing to the issue at hand.
You got a vid from what time frame.......hell, lets go back another decade or two huh?
Ya know, you have basically the smallest nation of that region with nothing but hostile neighbors, then worse than now by the way. Iran supplying assistance to a Sunni group like the Palestinians....what a joke! As soon as Israel was banished to the sea, as some wish, the Shi-ites would be trying to do the same to the Sunni/Palestinian in the region.
Well, I'm done with this shit. Fact is in that region it's a pecking order; the one with the best weapons has the biggest pecker. Arab Muslims hate the Jews, Pakistani Muslims hate the Hindu's, Sudan Muslims hate each other.....and don't get me wrong, ALL that hate is returned by the other factions 10 fold.
Have a good one!:s4:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Don't put it across like you don't post nothing but anti-Israel in here when Israel is discussed because I along with others can read. Christ, we can tell what's up with just the thread titles.
I post all kinds of stuff in here. Yes, I do take a very critical view of Israel. I believe they have perverted our system of government in the service of what they perceive to be their national interests. My positions have nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish majority state. My positions do not make me an anti-semite or peddler of hate speech. Don't paint me with that brush. You are better than that. But if you are going to go that route, you had better be able to back up your accusations because I am better than that too. So please, put the evidence on the table or stop with that line of attack. It in not productive and reflects poorly on you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
You got a vid from what time frame.......hell, lets go back another decade or two huh?
Is that's all you have to say about the contents of this video - it's a decade old so who cares? The video was only made public a ten days ago! It exposes a then former and future Prime Minister of one of our closest allies boasting about undermining mutually agreed upon policies and gloating about manipulating our political system to achieve objectives that we supposedly oppose. So it is highly relevant despite being a decade old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Ya know, you have basically the smallest nation of that region with nothing but hostile neighbors, then worse than now by the way. Iran supplying assistance to a Sunni group like the Palestinians....what a joke! As soon as Israel was banished to the sea, as some wish, the Shi-ites would be trying to do the same to the Sunni/Palestinian in the region. Well, I'm done with this shit. Fact is in that region it's a pecking order; the one with the best weapons has the biggest pecker.
Yeah, that's a convenient narrative. Unfortunately the reality is far more stark. Let's take care of our own piece of this mess shall we? Israel is our closest ally in the region, what they do reflects directly upon us. We have enabled their expansion and wars for 50 years. There is no way around the facts. So consider, Israel occupy 3.2 million Palestinians. They deny them just about every civil right that you take for granted. They confiscate their land for Jewish only developments. They exile their people. They imprison their children without charges. And on and on and on.
Patriots like yourself fail to account for how our blind support for these policies impacts on our standing around the world with very real and negative consequences. The failure to solve this issue was a root cause of 9/11 and yet you want to excuse it by saying they are all crazy so fuck it? It's just not that easy. Sorry.
A few other notes. If you accept the might makes right argument then don't be upset when someone lobs a nuke or a chemical weapon over there. Also, note that the neighborhood has become more radical over time precisely because the more moderate elements have failed to deliver a solution. That, and the fact that we have a penchant for supporting dictators, but that's a separate discussion.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Israel, Americans in Saudi Arabia, the First Gulf War, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib,..........whats the next excuse for these radical mullahs preaching murder.......whatevers convienant for their story line.
I guess we should just load the Israeli's onto trains and ship them back to Poland huh? Maybe Germany? That would be nice.........they could hang with Helen Thomas (who spoke the true progressives idea about Jews) and Oliver Stone in bashing the Jews.
If anyone has a right to be pissed at the world its the American Indian and the Jews.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
I post all kinds of stuff in here. Yes, I do take a very critical view of Israel. I believe they have perverted our system of government in the service of what they perceive to be their national interests. My positions have nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish majority state. My positions do not make me an anti-semite or peddler of hate speech. Don't paint me with that brush. You are better than that. But if you are going to go that route, you had better be able to back up your accusations because I am better than that too. So please, put the evidence on the table or stop with that line of attack. It in not productive and reflects poorly on you.
I have not mentioned "anti-semite" or Jewish state in any of my posts. I refer to that nation as Israel and it consists of Jews, Muslims, and I'd imagine Christians alike. Now if your taking my posts in another way that's an issue only you can deal with yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
Is that's all you have to say about the contents of this video - it's a decade old so who cares? The video was only made public a ten days ago! It exposes a then former and future Prime Minister of one of our closest allies boasting about undermining mutually agreed upon policies and gloating about manipulating our political system to achieve objectives that we supposedly oppose. So it is highly relevant despite being a decade old.
LOL....Washington consists of nothing but lawyers and your trying to state that Israel got one up on us do to a loop-hole in a contract? Don't ya think that maybe the loop-hole was left there for a reason? At that time more than now it was a "one step at a time" ordeal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
Patriots like yourself fail to account for how our blind support for these policies impacts on our standing around the world with very real and negative consequences. The failure to solve this issue was a root cause of 9/11 and yet you want to excuse it by saying they are all crazy so fuck it? It's just not that easy. Sorry.
Root cause for 9/11 my ass. The Muslim world of Pakistan and the Taliban are more concerned about Hindu's than Israel. An ego-maniac called Bin-Laden didn't count on us invading a country that Russia just got it's ass kicked in. Hell, the dude is fighting "crusade style" for lack of better words. It wouldn't stop in his eyes until all non-Muslims met the sword.
Now I'm a "Patriot"...LMAO! I may love this country but I sure the hell don't love this government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
A few other notes. If you accept the might makes right argument then don't be upset when someone lobs a nuke or a chemical weapon over there. Also, note that the neighborhood has become more radical over time precisely because the more moderate elements have failed to deliver a solution. That, and the fact that we have a penchant for supporting dictators, but that's a separate discussion.
If ANY country lobs a nuke or chemical weapon over there you can bet your ass that it won't be either the U.S. or Israel....that's unless Israel would face immanent defeat. Hey, ya all keep on defending Iran's right to nuclear power....they're not radical at all.
Have a good one!:s4:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
I have not mentioned "anti-semite" or Jewish state in any of my posts. I refer to that nation as Israel and it consists of Jews, Muslims, and I'd imagine Christians alike. Now if your taking my posts in another way that's an issue only you can deal with yourself.
I thought you said you were done? ;)
You referred to hate speech. I filled in the blanks for you. But fine, I'll take back the anti-semitism comment and just leave it at hate speech. Please provide evidence if you are going to lob that my way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
LOL....Washington consists of nothing but lawyers and your trying to state that Israel got one up on us do to a loop-hole in a contract? Don't ya think that maybe the loop-hole was left there for a reason? At that time more than now it was a "one step at a time" ordeal.
That's good. I definitely give you points for that interpretation and I'd certainly be willing to believe it if there were the case. However, the PM talks about refusing to cede Hebron until he got the side letter and the language that he sought. This demonstrates intent to manipulate and deceive, not behavior I would expect from an ally. Further, even if that were the case, it would not hold water with the American people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Root cause for 9/11 my ass. The Muslim world of Pakistan and the Taliban are more concerned about Hindu's than Israel. An ego-maniac called Bin-Laden didn't count on us invading a country that Russia just got it's ass kicked in. Hell, the dude is fighting "crusade style" for lack of better words. It wouldn't stop in his eyes until all non-Muslims met the sword.
Yeah, OK, you believe what you want. Our support for Israeli policies outlined previously engender a great deal of anger and resentment not to mention damage to our standing internationally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Now I'm a "Patriot"...LMAO! I may love this country but I sure the hell don't love this government.
Being a Patriot has nothing to do with loving any particular administration. I was just playing off of the flag image that always accompanies your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
If ANY country lobs a nuke or chemical weapon over there you can bet your ass that it won't be either the U.S. or Israel....that's unless Israel would face immanent defeat. Hey, ya all keep on defending Iran's right to nuclear power....they're not radical at all.
Cluster bombs no problem... I am confident that Israel will use it's nukes only if it needs to for defensive purposes, though I have not doubt they have tactical nukes too. I have always stated my opposition to the Iranian nuclear program. I just don't see how we oppose it without exposing our hypocrisy.
BTW, I very much appreciate that you are able to debate these issues. It is refreshing to find someone on this site who is able to put up an argument that is balanced, coherent, and avoids personal attacks. Seriously.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsby
BTW, I very much appreciate that you are able to debate these issues. It is refreshing to find someone on this site who is able to put up an argument that is balanced, coherent, and avoids personal attacks. Seriously.
I have no choice.....really don't know if I could ban myself or not. :lol5:
Have a good one!:s4:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
I have no choice.....really don't know if I could ban myself or not. :lol5:
Have a good one!:s4:
haha :thumbsup:
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
I have no choice.....really don't know if I could ban myself or not.
I was referring more to your ability to debate the issue in an intelligent and coherent way; far more productive than the usual commentary here, where the objective is to polarize and divert attention rather than engaging in a meaningful exploration the issues. I suspect that is due to their very limited understanding of the conflict rendering them incapable of this type of debate.
Reasonable people can disagree. I suspect that we would find considerable common ground were we to sit down with a spliffy. When I there I interfaced with the Israeli security services on a regular basis. I do have a reasonable understanding of their concerns and insecurities. I wish more Americans would take the time to understand the history and issues at hand before spouting their 8th grade interpretations of the conflict.
All that being said, you have to admit that this is a stunning bit of video.
Regards.
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
I have no choice.....really don't know if I could ban myself or not. :lol5:
Have a good one!:s4:
we could arraign for a hit?
Israel Deceived the US to Destroy Oslo Accords
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
we could arraign for a hit?
What we have here is failure to communicate!!!! :S2:
