I don't think marijuana should be legal in US--your thoughts?

I honestly don't think we should legalize weed in America. I love herb, and know of all it's potential, however, I feel as if legalization would lead to an inevitable raping of the plant by our capitalistic society. I wouldn't want the government to rule the crop, and basically be pawning off low-quality products for mass profits. Rather, I think decriminalization would be the solution. The ambiguity with decriminalization would mean, with such mass support, it would be virtually legal, while still keeping the professional growers (and rookies) in business. Something has to change with the legislation, but I feel as if complete legalization would undermine the goals of the people who would directly benefit (i.e. not just money) from this problem. The people who matter: Us.

Please share your thoughts...peace

Well, Look at gambling in Nevada. It makes the State live. The state watches and protects the consumer as much as possible.

The Government should be involved to the point of reasonable taxation. The market will bear and settle into a price range over time and it will become a commodity like wheat, gold, oil, tobacco.

The financial gains could potentially bring this country back to the forefront of the financial status in the world.

There will be real legitimate farms that become major players in the country, there will still always be the farmers market types too. Some folks like to grow as much as they like to smoke. Some hate to bother, just want good weed.

It will also slow some of this illegal alien crap. Reduce crime a little, the gangs will still sell the crack and heroin. Studies, valid studies will be able to be done..and they are so needed.

Myself I would start a breeding program, have 2 or 3 different greenhouses....wow, that would be so cool.

It is happening anyway sort of. They will never stop it. Like trying to make a river flow up hill, they are just making dams that eventually fill.

No... it should be completely legal. it is the principal of the matter.

I agree with what you're saying about not wanting the government to to take it out of control, but we just need boundaries.

What I think would be perfect is having taxed and regulated dispensaries in states where any one over 18 can go and buy some bud of their choice, much like how some states have medical.

On top of this, you can choose to go to your local courthouse and buy a growing license, for like $100 a year, which allows you to grow personal amount of Marijuana.

...is government intervention in the marketplace at all. As long as one is not using neither force nor fraud, at either end of the transaction, any transaction involving fair value for fair value amongst adults must be inherently 'right'.

And why should I pay someone in a downtown bureaucubicle a hunnert bux just so I can get their permission slip to do something I inherently have the right to do?

We need to take things back to the point where you could walk into the local apothecary/corner store and buy whatever the hell you wanted, as long as you were able to afford it. Neither Organized Crime nor The Government want this.

Hmm... maybe we're talking about the same people.. ;)

(c)C :chainsaw:

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Originally Posted by CovertCarpenter

...is government intervention in the marketplace at all. As long as one is not using neither force nor fraud, at either end of the transaction, any transaction involving fair value for fair value amongst adults must be inherently 'right'.

And why should I pay someone in a downtown bureaucubicle a hunnert bux just so I can get their permission slip to do something I inherently have the right to do?

We need to take things back to the point where you could walk into the local apothecary/corner store and buy whatever the hell you wanted, as long as you were able to afford it. Neither Organized Crime nor The Government want this.

Hmm... maybe we're talking about the same people.. ;)

(c)C :chainsaw:

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I was waiting for someone to say it! haha! When the government AND criminals both want something to remain illegal....hmmm, what does that mean to the rest of us?

I agree with what some are saying that if we legalize it the govt. will have it's hands in it and finding a way to still screw us over. Decriminilization is a great option, however, the govt. doesn't give a shit about that since that won't make us money! Taxing and regulating it will make them money....so that's what we are working with.

I've read a ton on the topic of legalization and it's crazy how it even came to be illegal. Our govt. can be very persuasive to the masses when need be. It's up to us to continue to spread the truth about marijuana and hope that one day the masses can see that MJ is not the monster it's made out to be....quite the opposite, in fact!

We should be free to consume things as we please. And not have the govt. telling us what we can and can't do with our bodies. If they were so damn worried about our health, they would stop making cigarettes, booze, aspirin, fast food, etc....

It's time for a change.....Legalize it! :jointsmile:

i just like to think about if pot was legal how awesome strain development would become. it would be worth it just for that even if big money or the gov made growing limited to licensed growers(which i dont think is likely to happen).:stoned:

Obviously it would be nice to just be able to buy some as easy as a candy bar, but we have to be realistic, that's not happening any time soon.

We have to equal between realism and optimism. I think that is one reason why it is still legal, they give us an inch and we try to take a mile, and I think that is exactly what the non herb smokers are worried about.

We need to take baby steps here folk, most of the public is still very uniformed and I think it's a scary idea for a lot of people to hear all these "druggies" demanding weed be completely legal to buy afraid their little boy will buy some and be hooked.

We still need some restrictions on it, and I certainly wouldn't mind paying a till tax so I can grow some without any legal trouble. We need to pave the road and let the next generation worry about the next step

So you think it's the capitalists that will rape the cannabis plant and the associated industry? WTF do you think is going on in this unregulated industry right now...? Backyard breeders are selling genetically modifed cannabis (gibrellic acids, silver thiosulfate, just to name a couple...) without a clue in the world what they are doing. With no concern about disease resistance, climate versatility, normal growth habits, stress-handling ability, sustainable reproductive diversity...as these abilities are all being bred-out of cannabis in favor of a strain with a catchy name...and cash. On the other hand, after Monsanto or Cargill gets done with cannabis, it might be the nail in cannabis' coffin.

Have you ever visited SeedBay? These moronic backyard breeders have already raped the cannabis plant. When's the last time you smoked some Columbian Gold, or Panamanian Red, for instance? The strains have been so deeply bastardized, likely you will never find an old-school strain. Wasn't a big deal years back, as only a handful of breeders to chose from. Now, everybody is a breeder, and all the strains are melding into one monotonic nightmare. Something I've always said, and firmly believe...Morons shouldn't breed.

Keeping it illegal means no regulation, no patents, nobody to call if your neighbor just broke-in and stole your meds, no legal recourse if your insurance company refuses to pay because you set your growroom on fire...

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Something I've always said, and firmly believe...Morons shouldn't breed.

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thanks for the chuckle...i firmly agree :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by ghettoBlunt

I honestly don't think we should legalize weed in America. I love herb, and know of all it's potential, however, I feel as if legalization would lead to an inevitable raping of the plant by our capitalistic society.

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If cannabis became legal, there will undoubtedly be people who will grow it not caring about quality or genetics. (We have that now.) They will only care about getting product, any product, to market. You find this every day in countless other products.

On the other hand there will also be people who care about quality and have great pride in growing the best they can. (We have this now too.) It will be sort of like the difference between Dom. Romane Conti and Boon's Farm wine.

I doubt there will be any absolutes. It will be like a curve. Just like in today's market of other products, there will be a lot of crap, and as you get to the best, there will be less.

There would be marijuana grown, packaged and directed at specific market segments. Some for the casual user. Some for the medicinal user. For every like and dislike, or even method of use, cannabis products would be produced to cater to all these markets.

Decriminalization is no option when it comes to the status of cannabis. To settle for that instead of full legalization would be hypocritical at best, and would solve little.

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Originally Posted by pepurr

Decriminalization is no option when it comes to the status of cannabis. To settle for that instead of full legalization would be hypocritical at best, and would solve little.

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Exactly, Pepurr.....Decrimilization still means illegal....just no jail time. People will still treat you like a criminal and it will still be considered taboo! I get it when people say if it's "legal" the govt. will have their hands in it and eventually screw it up somehow. But I don't feel that is a good enough reason not to legalize....it shouldn't have ever been made illegal in the first place....the govt. screws most things up!

I am a working, tax paying, participating member of society....I want the right to smoke my ganja freely....:jointsmile:

Correct me if I'm wrong but gibrellic acids, silver thiosulfate and such don't actually count as "genetic modification", right?

Also, in my opinion this whole business of "decriminalization" over outright legalization is only serving to hurt us (both users and non-users alike). It contributes to neither public safety or issues pertaining to personal freedom nor even the mitigation of the actual negative consequences of drug use.

Decriminalization does little to nothing as it relates to addressing the vast majority of the harm most folks currently attribute to drug use but which are actually the direct result of prohibitionist policies. Through arguments for decrmininaliztion we're simply obfuscating the real issues that need to be addressed; personal freedom, health, and public safety.

The cherries you eat now can have the genetics of a bull's balls... no matter where if it makes money it's fair game...

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Originally Posted by leadmagnet

Correct me if I'm wrong but gibrellic acids, silver thiosulfate and such don't actually count as "genetic modification", right?

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Well...Gibberellins (GAs) are plant hormones that regulate growth and influence various developmental processes, including stem elongation, germination, dormancy, flowering, sex expression, enzyme induction, and leaf and fruit senescence. My guess is that it does alter the genetic responses and imprinting of the resultant seeds.

With the silver thiosulfate, the genetic damage isn't so much a concern for the plant, but for those that ingest it. The gentleman below was on a daily regimin of silver nitrate as an antibiotic or something. Bluish skin coloring is from the silver. (the silver expresses itself through your skin) It's called Argyria. Don't know how much it takes to express this way, but I feel fine not using the stuff. :thumbsup:

Rusty Trichome! Come on man! You can't fool us.

We all know that is a real life picture of Papa Smirf.

Now if we can find more real life pictures of Smurfette, Oh baby! I found this one of her when she landed a roll on Star Trek.:S5:

Ahh...I see you've met my ex wife...

Blue Man - Silver Nitrate

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Ahh...I see you've met my ex wife...

Blue Man - Silver Nitrate

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:S2:

Uhhh I think Rusty is just prejudice against chubby black shroomers.:rastasmoke: With my rugged good looks and a bluish hue I bet Iâ??d get laid more.

The toxicity issue for humans who ingest silver thiosulfate due to a residual presence left over from the original treatment to feminize seeds later grown to maturity strikes me as a long shot as far as my list of things in life to worry about. (Whew, almost lost my breath just writing that sentence). Not that Iâ??m trying to poo poo your point Rusty.

On the issue of gibberellinsâ?¦ being plant hormones that regulate growth and â??influence various developmental processesâ?�- that doesnâ??t mean gibberellins fall into what one might actually classify as â??genetic modificationsâ?�, scientifically speaking. Right???

And ayyyyyeâ??m no genetic engineer but it is my understanding â??genetic engineeringâ?� requires some form of gene splicing.

Doesnâ??t that require duct-tape or sumtin?

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Originally Posted by TheChameleon

The cherries you eat now can have the genetics of a bull's balls... no matter where if it makes money it's fair game...

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Are you saying we should just go straight for the bull's balls?

Hey, good book but sorta old... "From Naked Ape to Superspecies"- Suzuki and Dressel.

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Originally Posted by ghettoBlunt

I honestly don't think we should legalize weed in America. I love herb, and know of all it's potential, however, I feel as if legalization would lead to an inevitable raping of the plant by our capitalistic society. I wouldn't want the government to rule the crop, and basically be pawning off low-quality products for mass profits. Rather, I think decriminalization would be the solution. The ambiguity with decriminalization would mean, with such mass support, it would be virtually legal, while still keeping the professional growers (and rookies) in business. Something has to change with the legislation, but I feel as if complete legalization would undermine the goals of the people who would directly benefit (i.e. not just money) from this problem. The people who matter: Us.

Please share your thoughts...peace

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It was never made illeagle.

Only prohibition. and that was done by one drug Zsar.

We The People need to lift the prohibition.

There are no illeagle substances in the US CONSTITUTION.

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Originally Posted by leadmagnet

And ayyyyyeâ??m no genetic engineer but it is my understanding â??genetic engineeringâ?� requires some form of gene splicing.

Doesnâ??t that require duct-tape or sumtin?

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Actually, duct tape binds the DNA to a pre-determined expression. :thumbsup:

There's the epigenetic theory:
Epigenetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And there's the pre-formationism theory: Preformationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A cause-and-effect theory versus a predetermined outcome theory. Both have their merits, but in different contexts. With the pre-formation theory, do we have all the genetic material on-board to handle the variety of outside influences without change, or is this a learning process for genes, and they adapt (and possibly change) as a result of the extended influences? Subtle difference in the written word...big difference in long-term evolution.

Guess my new vape works...I was just going to post the first sentence, and kinda took off from there...(and has nothing to do with OP's question on legalization. Sorry)

"however, I feel as if legalization would lead to an inevitable raping of the plant by our capitalistic society."

This plant was already commercially raped before it was ever made illegal. In fact, before making cannabis illegal, it was once illegal to NOT GROW on your land.

The people need to learn their history a bit better. Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Hmm...I wonder how nature feels about us growers raping ('manipulating and optimizing') cannabis for our own ends. And it's kinda the pot calling the kettle black blaming capitalists. Or are breeders "capitalists" too? I guess it could be seen as both sides of the same coin, now-a-days. Without capitalists, where would you get your soils, nutrients, seeds, lights, fans, electricity...

I'm pretty sure it was hemp the colonies required of landowners. You don't want to smoke hemp.

But I agree. It would be nice if someone has preserved the genetic integrity of base strains from all the continents, just in case we need to start over from scratch.

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Originally Posted by khyberkitsune

"however, I feel as if legalization would lead to an inevitable raping of the plant by our capitalistic society."

This plant was already commercially raped before it was ever made illegal. In fact, before making cannabis illegal, it was once illegal to NOT GROW on your land.

The people need to learn their history a bit better. Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

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Could you please define the terms "raping of the plant", and "commercially raped"? What does it mean to you?

I bet if you walked down the street and asked people to define that, you would get many different answers.

If you mean planting many acres of land, and doing it on an industrial scale, what would be the harm in that? People have been moving that direction for many thousands of years. Look at wheat.

Ten thousand years ago wheat was a wild grass that provided way less food per plant than the verities we have today. It was all done with selective breeding and experimentation.

Just like many other products, there will be large producers and small ones. I doubt these producers will want to flood the market with crap, especially the smaller ones.

I mean like, what do you want to drink Red White & Blue beer (crap), or fine, tasty beer from a micro brew?

See? People have a choice to make. They make that choice using money. The people who wish to profit can not do so by pissing off their customers with a lousy product.

"It would be nice if someone has preserved the genetic integrity of base strains from all the continents, just in case we need to start over from scratch."

Guess what I just happen to do for the Dutch Seedbanks? :)

"You don't want to smoke hemp."

Not from this day and age, but back in the 1700s there are plenty of mentions of the smoking of hemp flowers, so I'm quite willing to bet back then there was some potency.

"Could you please define the terms "raping of the plant", and "commercially raped"? What does it mean to you?"

Going by the term stated in the comment I replied to of "capitalistic" the plant has been commercially exploited in all sorts of manners from cannabis tinctures to insufflated concoctions. Granted most had *SOME* effect but back then it was all done through a bunch of quack science, and since the quacks were involved, the commercial raping happened.

"I mean like, what do you want to drink Red White & Blue beer (crap), or fine, tasty beer from a micro brew? "

Neither, malt liquor is my preferred carbonated alcoholic beverage. Between the pisswater and the high-and-mighty, I think I'll stick with the humble 40oz.

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Originally Posted by khyberkitsune

Guess what I just happen to do for the Dutch Seedbanks? :)

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My guess is that you "design grow lights for horticultural firms across the globe." (at least that's what it says in your signature) But now you've almost got me curious what you really do. Almost.

By "raping the plant," I meant that, being capitalist America, our style is to go bigger and cheaper. Unless we had specific agricultural guidelines paired-up with a group of surveyors doing random checks at grow sites, this perfect plant could be tainted with cheap fertilizers and other unhealthy chemicals. It's all about making money in America, quick and easy, which would lead me to believe a legalization would undoubtedly put the plant into the hands of someone (government) who only cared about the bottom line: the money. When they don't care about the quality of the product, and just want to see stocks jump, they'd end up selling taxed, potentially unhealthy, marijuana for lower prices than the competition (experienced growers). Without specific guidelines and a powerful board of people who could enforce the rules, legalization would probably make the plant far less enjoyable, and potentially very unhealthy.
I don't know what you like to smoke, but I support my local growers and the immaculate organic farming and true appreciation of the crop to which I've become accustomed. Blaze up.

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Originally Posted by ghettoBlunt

I don't know what you like to smoke, but I support my local growers and the immaculate organic farming and true appreciation of the crop to which I've become accustomed. Blaze up.

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I don't like any product of inferior quality. Just like you and many others, we like fine smoke.

If in the future if there are capitalist mega-grower brands, I'll give them a try. If they suck, they loose my business. All the while I'll be buying the local primo too. Also, I'll be growing my own kick butt grass. Then I'll tell them all to kiss my azz.

I don't think this can be put into such a narrow focus. There are many forces at work here, and will be in the future. We are the shapers of the future. We are part of the forces at work. If there is a failure in the future of marijuana, it is we who fail.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

My guess is that you "design grow lights for horticultural firms across the globe." (at least that's what it says in your signature) But now you've almost got me curious what you really do. Almost.

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I do that, as a main job. But I'm really, really dedicated to horticulture. I help with preserving pure landraces of cannabis from around the globe. My duty is to breed and generate seed of this pure stock. Here is a pic of what I've been allowed to keep for personal furtherance/crossbreeding:

From left to right, these are only known as CAN-39, CAN-22, CAN-17, and CAN-59. Eurasian and Asian landraces. Not only do I breed it, but I'm tasked with documenting the characteristics and typical likes/dislikes of what I've generated. CAN-39 is odd. The female doesn't produce anything we'd call a bud (it produces two or three calyxes per node,) but it drips with crazy resin and just suddenly ram-horns at the leaves. The male produces typical pollen sacs. I have yet to do CAN-22, CAN-17 has managed to produce some almost hash-quality buds, and I have yet to touch the CAN-59.

And then I do some volunteer horticultural lecturing at the garden clubs on weekends, and of course dedicate tons of time to sites like this.

...I'd just /love/ to help you 'preserve that precious genetic variety'...

and if you /EVER/ get 'round to the Toronto or GTArea... look me up! I have some very fine Purple Kush I'd like to help 'preserve'... ;)

I think at the very least they need to decriminalize it. There are MUCH worse crimes than weed possession, or cultivation, etc. As long as you're not selling it to kids. If you do sell to kids, the punishment should be about the same as buying beer for minors.

The cops/govt will likely not allow weed to become completely legal, since they help create artificially high prices, and make lots of money off the sales and distribution of marijuana. I say the law enforcement makes money off the sales and distribution not in the same method as the dealers do, although sometimes that is still the case. They help control who gets busted, and who does not. Also, I find it strange how a 500 pound bust turns into 12 pounds of shake by the time it reaches the station..... and how $200,000 turns into $25,000 when it gets reported into the books.

I'm not saying all the law enforcement officers are corrupt with marijuana, but I am saying that no one watches over them, and the temptation is certainly there for all cops who deal with pot busts.

Local countys are unlikely to stop busting and prosecuting small and large time growers, since each case makes the county on average close to $10,000 if they successfully prosecute the grower/dealer/smoker. Although this practice is looked down upon by most taxpayers (who have to pay for the cases win or lose), the prosecutors don't seem to mind spending billions of taxpayer dollars busting and prosecuting harmless offenders of victimless crimes (IE pot busts), since they won't ever have to flip the bill.

This is why I seriously doubt marijuana will become fully legal in the US.

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Originally Posted by khyberkitsune

My duty is to breed and generate seed of this pure stock. Here is a pic of what I've been allowed to keep for personal furtherance/crossbreeding:

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Ok...I'm lost again. You're going to keep 'em pure to strain standards AND cross breed 'em too? I'm guessing that's how the downfall started 40 years ago. Maybe it's just me, but I'd give my left nuts to keep some purebreds pure. (ok, only one of the left ones)
I'm sure you really know this, but sanitizing between seed runs, washing clothes and controling pollen is probably a good idea with the purebreds around. One "oops" cancels-out a thousand "atta-boys". :thumbsup:

Not to pry...but how does one get a job like that? Something like that might force me to rethink my unemployment status. :D

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Ok...I'm lost again. You're going to keep 'em pure to strain standards AND cross breed 'em too? I'm guessing that's how the downfall started 40 years ago. Maybe it's just me, but I'd give my left nuts to keep some purebreds pure. (ok, only one of the left ones)
I'm sure you really know this, but sanitizing between seed runs, washing clothes and controling pollen is probably a good idea with the purebreds around. One "oops" cancels-out a thousand "atta-boys". :thumbsup:

Not to pry...but how does one get a job like that? Something like that might force me to rethink my unemployment status. :D

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Oh yes, I have separate boxes with HEPA filtration and as soon as I harvest seed the entire thing gets a half-strength chlorine bleach sterilization.

I got this through helping out a nice lady at Sacred Origin, giving her ideas, helping her with her documentation database for all sorts of seeds. She does this as well and she loved my LED lights, so she got me a gig doing this under LED lighting for study and research.

And yes, I breed their stuff, send it to them, then I want to see what I can get as well from mixing. I do keep some pure stock on hand at all times. Those interested need only come to me, I won't ship these out by mail, too risky to lose such rare genetics.

... because even though the mass-profits would likely vanish overnight for those doing it purely 'commercially'... there would still be room in the 'market' for those of us who produce quality stuph, even if only for our immediate circle of friends.

In the free market, there's room for both Big Max and F!let Mign0n...

We get one step closer to ending this crazy "drug war" on our people is good enough reason for me.

That's a very interesting thought. The selling of weed would end up in corruption like any thriving American business. They would lower the quality and raise the price and illegal selling would still continue. It would end up going to foreign countries and people would be growing it and making nothing for it. Weed is one of the only robust businesses in this country that corporate leaders aren't profiting off of. Instead, the middle class are benifiting and that's the way it should be. Also, the thought of smoking weed for the purpose of these corporate leaders to gain capital is repulsive. Plus, they would tax it which would be more money out of the middle classes pockets. If they legalized marijuana, i would grow my own.

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Originally Posted by highasarobin

If they legalized marijuana, i would grow my own.

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That's all find and dandy, but what of the prohibitionist laws that are currently in place ruining peoples lives simply due to the use and/or possession of these currently illicit substances? Screw them because YOU have a beef with corporate international and big business?

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

It is happening anyway sort of. They will never stop it. Like trying to make a river flow up hill, they are just making dams that eventually fill.

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Oh yeah, the boulder has started rolling down hill...there's no stopping legalization now.

We will see, both, good and bad to come along with this but I think we can all agree that the bad to come won't be anywhere near the bad the gov't has perpatrated on us for 70 years!

j